WWTBAM theoretical meta-question

[talkinaway]

Just wondering here...is this (purposefully ridiculously simple) sample question valid or invalid for WWTBAM purposes?

Which of the following fruits is red?
A: Apple
B: Banana
C: Coffee
D: Dandelion

I'm just a bit curious. One of the questions from 5/8/13 has a question that's more complex, but is essentially the same form, and I'm wondering if anyone sees a foul here - I won't spoil it, and I'll post on the transcript when it comes.

[littlebeast13]

Which of the following fruits is red?
A: Apple
B: Banana
C: Coffee
D: Dandelion

All of the above?

lb13

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

let's see

some apples are red some are not
ripe coffee beans are red, perhaps all of them
red bananas exist some bananas are not red

bad question

[TheConfessor]

Just wondering here...is this (purposefully ridiculously simple) sample question valid or invalid for WWTBAM purposes?

Which of the following fruits is red?
A: Apple
B: Banana
C: Coffee
D: Dandelion

I'm just a bit curious. One of the questions from 5/8/13 has a question that's more complex, but is essentially the same form, and I'm wondering if anyone sees a foul here - I won't spoil it, and I'll post on the transcript when it comes.

I didn't see the 5/8/13 episode and I don't know when a transcript might be posted, but I think you can safely post the question without upsetting anyone.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to illustrate, but I don't think the question above works as written. Apples are commonly red, but there are many exceptions. Bananas are typically green or yellow, but there are exotic varieties that are red or reddish on the outside. Coffee beans (fruits) are typically reddish. I am not aware of any part of the dandelion that would be considered a fruit, so that seems to violate the premise of the question.

[jarnon]

Thinking too linearly, I assumed coffee and dandelions weren't fruits. But TMITSSS and TheConfessor correctly point out that coffee can mean either a red bean or a black beverage. I couldn't imagine dandelion seeds could be fruits; however:

The flower heads mature into spherical seed heads called "blowballs" or "clocks" containing many single-seeded fruits called achenes.

But even if some of the choices really weren't fruits, it's still an acceptable question. Questions like that appear often, as in this example:

Captain Sig Hansen and Captain Keith Colburn

Question #10 (Inventions Revisited - Level
While Edison did not independently invent the light bulb, he perfected it by discovering made of what plant material burned the longest?
A - hemp
B - linen
C - bamboo
D - silk

Keith says it's definitely not

Spoiler

bamboo

. Sig emphasizes "plant material" and says that

Spoiler

silk is not a plant

. They decide to ask the audience.

ATA results

A - 65%
B - 10%
C - 15%
D - 10%

Meredith says that Sig and Keith may have influenced the audience. It's a good number, though, and they go with it.

Spoiler

Answer: C (bamboo)
Value: $5,000
Bank: $10,000 (guaranteed donation to charity)

Sig and Keith used "plant material" as a clue to eliminate silk.

[talkinaway]

My point, and I failed to make it, was supposed to be that dandelions and coffee are (supposed to be) neither red nor fruit.

The question was a 100k question asking which $240 Monopoly property was renamed to MLK boulevard in Atlantic city. There aren't even four $240 properties in Monopoly. IMO, the question should have read "which Monopoly property is worth $240 and was renamed to MLK Boulevard".

[jaybee]

My point, and I failed to make it, was supposed to be that dandelions and coffee are (supposed to be) neither red nor fruit.

The question was a 100k question asking which $240 Monopoly property was renamed to MLK boulevard in Atlantic city. There aren't even four $240 properties in Monopoly. IMO, the question should have read "which Monopoly property is worth $240 and was renamed to MLK Boulevard".

Maybe I just don't quite understand but to me the question of "Which $240 Monopoly property was renamed to MLK boulevard in Atlantic City" makes perfect sense. To me, it describes the property as costing $240 and being on the game Monopoly. Only Illinois ave fits that description. Just because there were three other properties listed as choices doesn't mean that they too carried a value of $240.

You version of the question is also correct, but they both make perfect sense to me. In order to answer the question, one must be familiar with the Monopoly board game. If you are familiar with the game, you will know that the only group of four properties that have the same value would be the railroads - at $200 each. Since $200 does not equal $240, then the RR's are out. All others are either paired or singles, no matter if they are utilities, sets of two or the more typical set of three. If you are familiar with Monopoly, then this is an easy question. If you are not, then you are toast as there is no way to logic it out.

On a sideways slant: I remember reading somewhere that Illinois Ave was the most landed on space on the board. Something to do with the combinations of the dice probabilities, the fact that there is an "Advance to Illinois Ave" card, it's location in relation the the jail and even the other "advance to" cards.

[littlebeast13]

On a sideways slant: I remember reading somewhere that Illinois Ave was the most landed on space on the board. Something to do with the combinations of the dice probabilities, the fact that there is an "Advance to Illinois Ave" card, it's location in relation the the jail and even the other "advance to" cards.

I've heard this factoid as well before, and always thought it was an odd spot to be the "most landed on".

I think you are right about it being the closest "advance to..." spot from the jail (St. Charles Place can't be reached on a roll from the jail, unless you cheat), and that gives it the edge....

lb13

[talkinaway]

Well, I just figured that if the question was "Which of the following Xs is also a Y?", that you could implicitly assume that all of the answer choices already had property X, and that exactly one of them also had property Y. I will grant that it's a bit of a nitpick, and, yes, it's obvious to anyone who's played Monopoly that there can be at most two $240 properties (and that there is, in fact, only one).

In all fairness, I do agree that in this particular instance, it was pretty clear that only one answer was remotely possible - both from the $240 clue and the MLK clue. But I've actually been watching Millionaire the past year or so like a hawk for questions like these, and, to the best of my knowledge, whenever they ask a question like this, it's done the "right" way. If the question asks "Which of the following child actors...", then the options are always four child actors.

[jarnon]

Which of the following fruits is red?
A: Apple
B: Banana
C: Coffee
D: Dandelion

All of the above?

lb13

Found it!

[littlebeast13]

Which of the following fruits is red?
A: Apple
B: Banana
C: Coffee
D: Dandelion

All of the above?

lb13

Found it!

I think you're winning the game this year....

lb13

[jaybee]

If the question is considered 'flawed' then it is in a way that actually gives you a better chance of answering correctly as they are giving two clues to the answer. It could just as easily been: "In the game of Monopoly, what property sells for $240?" (requiring a knowledge of the game to answer) or "What Monopoly based property was recently renamed MLK Blvd?" (requiring some current events knowledge to answer).

With the way the question was phrased, you could correctly answer if you had never seen a monopoly board or if you had never seen the MLK reference.

[talkinaway]

I agree with that to a degree - and I definitely agree with it since the show's not timed, and, in theory, on Millionaire the contestants have time to get a hold of their nerves and read, reread, and rereread the questions.

That said, I could see a nervous and careless contestant not really "getting" that the $240 part was really the easier clue (for most), and not the MLK Boulevard part. I got it almost instantly, since I knew that the tan properties ended at $200, and that either Indiana or Illinois was the premium red property, so it would be $40 more. If I'm getting a Round 2 question that easily, it's probably WAY too easy, IMO. At that level, they probably should have nixed the $240 part of the clue altogether....unless more than one road in Atlantic City was renamed MLK.

[MarleysGh0st]

At that level, they probably should have nixed the $240 part of the clue altogether....unless more than one road in Atlantic City was renamed MLK.

Without the $240 clue, this question would have been impossible for anyone outside Atlantic City. Lots of cities have renamed streets in honor of MLK. (Ithaca has one, although it also kept the old street name, so it has double road signs.) Knowing which one in AC was so named is not anything the nation would be aware of.

[hanzz]

This is something a lot of people bring up when they watch my episode.

$100K - Perhaps because it originated in his home country of Germany, Pope Benedict XVI reportedly drinks what soft drink every day?
A - Orangina
B - Yoo-Hoo
C - Fanta
D - Kool-Aid

Hans has a slight hunch. He's leaning toward

Spoiler

Fanta

thinking it was a foreign drink and the others are domestic. Hans is a "water kind of guy". $60,600 is a year's worth of med school tuition and he feels like he's played a pretty good game, so he's going to walk away.

Spoiler

C (Fanta)

THE END OF GAME "NOISE"

They say to me, "Oh, well, Fanta was the only one of those that's a soft drink." One of the things Rich explained to us during a question run-through backstage was that, if something asks "Which of these X's is a Y", then, for the most part, we can be sure that they're not trying to trick us in that some of the answer choices are not X's. A soft drink need not be carbonated (right?), so unless it is, I actually had three clues leading me to the correct answer (Pope, Germany, and soft drink). Interesting that this seems to break that unwritten rule (shockers).

[TheConfessor]

WWRD - What Would Rosner Do?
http://articles.latimes.com/2001/feb/02 ... t/ca-20332

[Rafferbee]

They say to me, "Oh, well, Fanta was the only one of those that's a soft drink." One of the things Rich explained to us during a question run-through backstage was that, if something asks "Which of these X's is a Y", then, for the most part, we can be sure that they're not trying to trick us in that some of the answer choices are not X's. A soft drink need not be carbonated (right?),

No. think of a soft drink as in opposition to "hard drinks", i.e., those that get you drunk.

[Ritterskoop]

My Monopoly secrets:

Buy up all the railroads. Swap anything up to green properties to get them. Sometimes even Boardwalk or Park Place, as long as it doesn't give the other player the pair.

Buy up the purple properties just after the jail, and the orange ones after that if you can. Because everybody goes to jail, and has to pay you rent when they hit your properties on the way out. I buy up that whole side if I can.

I rarely get to complete both strategies, but when it works, the game's over quickly.

[etaoin22]

My Monopoly secrets:

Buy up all the railroads.

that one alone worked well for Commodore Vanderbilt.