R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

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BackInTex
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R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#1 Post by BackInTex » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:59 am

..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#2 Post by themanintheseersuckersuit » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:27 am

But you know what? I'm not going to sit by quietly when you issue a pusillanimous press release misstating and abandoning core American values.

"The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others."

Every sentence of this is chock-full of un-American bullshit. Yes, I said un-American. And I meant it.
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Suitguy is not bitter.

feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive

The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.

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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#3 Post by themanintheseersuckersuit » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:30 am

There are reports that 2 of the dead were U.S. Marines.
Suitguy is not bitter.

feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive

The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.

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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#4 Post by themanintheseersuckersuit » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:39 am

I had to check. The USS New York is with the 5th Fleet in the Persian Gulf.
Suitguy is not bitter.

feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive

The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.

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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#5 Post by Bob Juch » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:51 am

The news I saw just before leaving for work said he died of smoke inhalation after the consulate was set on fire.

I blame Sam Bacile and Terry Jones for his death.
Last edited by Bob Juch on Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#6 Post by Bob Juch » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:00 am

themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:
But you know what? I'm not going to sit by quietly when you issue a pusillanimous press release misstating and abandoning core American values.

"The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others."

Every sentence of this is chock-full of un-American bullshit. Yes, I said un-American. And I meant it.
http://www.popehat.com/2012/09/11/u-s-e ... gle+Reader
Statement by the President on the Attack in Benghazi

I strongly condemn the outrageous attack on our diplomatic facility in Benghazi, which took the lives of four Americans, including Ambassador Chris Stevens. Right now, the American people have the families of those we lost in our thoughts and prayers. They exemplified America's commitment to freedom, justice, and partnership with nations and people around the globe, and stand in stark contrast to those who callously took their lives.

I have directed my Administration to provide all necessary resources to support the security of our personnel in Libya, and to increase security at our diplomatic posts around the globe. While the United States rejects efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others, we must all unequivocally oppose the kind of senseless violence that took the lives of these public servants.

On a personal note, Chris was a courageous and exemplary representative of the United States. Throughout the Libyan revolution, he selflessly served our country and the Libyan people at our mission in Benghazi. As Ambassador in Tripoli, he has supported Libya's transition to democracy. His legacy will endure wherever human beings reach for liberty and justice. I am profoundly grateful for his service to my Administration, and deeply saddened by this loss.

The brave Americans we lost represent the extraordinary service and sacrifices that our civilians make every day around the globe. As we stand united with their families, let us now redouble our own efforts to carry their work forward.
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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#7 Post by jarnon » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:04 am

So sad. Shane on the filmmaker who took advantage of American freedom of speech to spew his ugly bigotry, and shame on the Middle Eastern religious leaders who urged violence in retaliation.

I can't blame the Cairo embassy, even though their statement contradicts American principles. They were trying to avoid even greater loss of life.
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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#8 Post by Bob Juch » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:10 am

jarnon wrote:So sad. Shane on the filmmaker who took advantage of American freedom of speech to spew his ugly bigotry, and shame on the Middle Eastern religious leaders who urged violence in retaliation.

I can't blame the Cairo embassy, even though their statement contradicts American principles. They were trying to avoid even greater loss of life.
What part of their statement contradicts American principles?
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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#9 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:46 am

Bob Juch wrote:
jarnon wrote:So sad. Shane on the filmmaker who took advantage of American freedom of speech to spew his ugly bigotry, and shame on the Middle Eastern religious leaders who urged violence in retaliation.

I can't blame the Cairo embassy, even though their statement contradicts American principles. They were trying to avoid even greater loss of life.
What part of their statement contradicts American principles?
The part where they failed to defend unpopular speech from a threat of violent response. (At the time the Embassy issued its unauthorized statement, the protests had not yet become violent.) We don't knuckle under to the heckler's veto. That's why the Administration has disavowed it. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#10 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:02 am

According to at least one story, Libyans fought alongside embassy security (who I assume were U.S. Marines) in an effort to protect Ambassador Stevens.

One further remark: Romney flat-out blew this one, further demonstrating, in my view, that at least in foreign relations, he's simply not ready for prime time. Rather than waiting a bit until he had some actual facts, he issued the following Juchian statement:
Candidate Mitt Romney wrote:I'm outraged by the attacks on American diplomatic missions in Libya and Egypt and by the death of an American consulate worker in Benghazi. It's disgraceful that the Obama administration's first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.
Romney was referring to the Embassy's unauthorized statement, which happened before the attacks (and therefore could not have condemned them). Here's the Administration's actual first response:
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton wrote:Some have sought to justify this vicious behavior as a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet. The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation. But let me be clear: There is never any justification for violent acts of this kind.
Immediately after Secretary Clinton's remarks, John McCain endorsed them (via Twitter). --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#11 Post by Bob Juch » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:34 am

Bob78164 wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
jarnon wrote:So sad. Shane on the filmmaker who took advantage of American freedom of speech to spew his ugly bigotry, and shame on the Middle Eastern religious leaders who urged violence in retaliation.

I can't blame the Cairo embassy, even though their statement contradicts American principles. They were trying to avoid even greater loss of life.
What part of their statement contradicts American principles?
The part where they failed to defend unpopular speech from a threat of violent response. (At the time the Embassy issued its unauthorized statement, the protests had not yet become violent.) We don't knuckle under to the heckler's veto. That's why the Administration has disavowed it. --Bob
So you say American principles are opposite to this part of the statement: "Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others."? That we should support thier actions?
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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#12 Post by jarnon » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:49 am

I didn't like this part: "The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims." Usually we say, "we disagree with them but support their right to express their opinions." But when someone's surrounded by an angry mob and trying to prevent violence, I don't quibble about their choice of words.
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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#13 Post by Flybrick » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:09 am

Bob Juch wrote: I blame Sam Bacile and Terry Jones for his death.
Of course you do.

And you are free to express that opinion without anyone killing someone else because you express it.

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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#14 Post by BackInTex » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:34 am

Bob78164 wrote: One further remark: Romney flat-out blew this one, further demonstrating, in my view, that at least in foreign relations, he's simply not ready for prime time.
And Obama was? Paaaallllleeeeezzzzeee!

He may have spoken too soon. Obama's ticket that hat any foreign policy experience does that on an hourly basis.

Besides, it is Obama's foreign policy that has allowed, no, enabled the lawlessness and destablization of the region. He applauded it, in fact.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
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-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#15 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:29 pm

By the way, this isn't the first time Romney has completely stepped in it in connection with an ongoing foreign policy issue. (I'm not talking here about his stupid remarks in London.) In May (in an incident that completely escaped my notice at the time), Romney strongly criticized the Administration for its handling of Chinese dissident Chen Guangcheng. Just one problem. It turns out that the Administration was, at the time, quietly negotiating with China behind the scenes for his release, which was achieved less than three weeks later. --Bob
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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#16 Post by Bob Juch » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:38 pm

I just found out he went to my high school: Piedmont, California.

Image
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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#17 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:55 pm

The House Intelligence Committee has issued its report. --Bob
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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#18 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:01 am

Bob78164 wrote:The House Intelligence Committee has issued its report. --Bob
I have to say I'm surprised, not by the fact that the talk radio accusations were shown to be unfounded, but that the Republican-controlled House Committee would come up with these findings instead of continuing to string people along.
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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#19 Post by Bob Juch » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:13 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:The House Intelligence Committee has issued its report. --Bob
I have to say I'm surprised, not by the fact that the talk radio accusations were shown to be unfounded, but that the Republican-controlled House Committee would come up with these findings instead of continuing to string people along.
Why not, now that the election is over?
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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#20 Post by Bob78164 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:31 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:The House Intelligence Committee has issued its report. --Bob
I have to say I'm surprised, not by the fact that the talk radio accusations were shown to be unfounded, but that the Republican-controlled House Committee would come up with these findings instead of continuing to string people along.
There are at least some Republicans, apparently, who are attempting to pivot to actual governing. John Kasich got my attention at the Republican Governors Association. I still suspect that the Republican Party is incapable of nominating moderates for the Presidency, but if Kasich does win the nomination, I'll give him a look in the general. --Bob
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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#21 Post by jarnon » Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:57 pm

Bob78164 wrote:I still suspect that the Republican Party is incapable of nominating moderates for the Presidency.
Sure, the nominee won't be someone you and I call moderate (and BiT calls a RINO), but Bush, McCain and Romney are all moderates compared to their primary opponents, like Rick Perry.
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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#22 Post by mrkelley23 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:27 pm

Goes to show how much the political landscape has changed in a short time if John Kasich is considered a moderate.
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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#23 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:16 am

mrkelley23 wrote:Goes to show how much the political landscape has changed in a short time if John Kasich is considered a moderate.
When Democrats allowed talk radio hosts to paint Barack Obama, a moderate-to-conservative Democrat on many issues, as a radical leftist, they succeeded in moving the "center" in American politics farther to the right than it's ever been.
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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#24 Post by themanintheseersuckersuit » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:57 pm

Those of you familiar with the Benghazi Brief will note the alignment and expectation of the Rogers/Ruppersberger report. Their report is exactly as we anticipated it would be.
With a House Select Committee (Trey Gowdy) already in place, you might rightly ask yourself why did Mike Rogers and Dutch Ruppersberger even produce a report? As you read their House Intelligence Panel Report on Benghazi it is important to note a few key aspects:

• Both Mike Rogers and Dutch Ruppersberger are members of the Congressional Gang of Eight. They are the ONLY authors.

• This is not a House Intelligence “Committee” report on Benghazi. This is only two committee members writing a report based on prior information.

• Both Rogers and Ruppersberger would have been briefed on the CIA operations in Benghazi during 2011/2012 as the covert operation began.

• President Obama signed a finding memo in 2011 permitting Operation Zero Footprint to begin. The congressional “gang of eight” held oversight responsibilities.
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Suitguy is not bitter.

feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive

The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.

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Re: R.I.P. Christopher Stevens - U.S. ambassador to Libya

#25 Post by BackInTex » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:55 am

If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

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