republican's healthcare plan

The forum for general posting. Come join the madness. :)
Message
Author
User avatar
flockofseagulls104
Posts: 7742
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

republican's healthcare plan

#1 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:05 pm

I'm beginning to change my mind on it, based on Bernie and Pelosi's claim that thousands of people will die if it gets passed. If these people are so against it that they go back to this kind of stupid shit, it must have some merits.
Whoops, I made a mistake. Pelosi says it's hundreds of thousands of people will die. Let's pass it now.
Last edited by flockofseagulls104 on Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

User avatar
frogman042
Bored Pun-dit
Posts: 3200
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:36 am

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#2 Post by frogman042 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:15 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:I'm beginning to change my mind on it, based on Bernie and Pelosi's claim that thousands of people will die if it gets passed. If these people are so against it that they go back to this kind of stupid shit, it must have some merits.
Your post reminded me of the Golda Meir quote: "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."

It would be a better world if people based their views on their desire for good outcomes based on the reality of something then their hate of those they disagree with.

User avatar
Bob78164
Bored Moderator
Posts: 21626
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: By the phone

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#3 Post by Bob78164 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:11 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
I'm beginning to change my mind on it, based on Bernie and Pelosi's claim that thousands of people will die if it gets passed. If these people are so against it that they go back to this kind of stupid shit, it must have some merits.
Whoops, I made a mistake. Pelosi says it's hundreds of thousands of people will die. Let's pass it now.
The CBO estimates that 22 million people (including 15 million next year) will lose health insurance. If the loss of health insurance is fatal to only 1% of those people, that's hundreds of thousands of people that the Republican bill will kill. All to pay for enormous tax breaks for the rich.

Given that my son is one of the people with pre-existing conditions who will be adversely affected by the Republican bill, as you can imagine I have a problem with that. (Hell, so do I, but I'm pretty sure I'll keep my current job and its health insurance until I'm eligible for Medicare. Sure would be nice, though, to have the option to retire before I reach that age. As a practical matter, this bill will take that option away from me as well. On the plus side, it's that many more years I'll have excess cash I can contribute to the opponents of people who vote for this monstrosity.) --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Bob78164
Bored Moderator
Posts: 21626
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: By the phone

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#4 Post by Bob78164 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:16 pm

frogman042 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:I'm beginning to change my mind on it, based on Bernie and Pelosi's claim that thousands of people will die if it gets passed. If these people are so against it that they go back to this kind of stupid shit, it must have some merits.
Your post reminded me of the Golda Meir quote: "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."

It would be a better world if people based their views on their desire for good outcomes based on the reality of something then their hate of those they disagree with.
I'd put it a different way. When flock frames the argument as "they're for it so I'm against it," he's being really fucking cavalier about my son's health, not to mention my financial future, and I'm pretty pissed off about it. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 12780
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#5 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:17 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
I'm beginning to change my mind on it, based on Bernie and Pelosi's claim that thousands of people will die if it gets passed. If these people are so against it that they go back to this kind of stupid shit, it must have some merits.
Whoops, I made a mistake. Pelosi says it's hundreds of thousands of people will die. Let's pass it now.
The CBO estimates that 22 million people (including 15 million next year) will lose health insurance. If the loss of health insurance is fatal to only 1% of those people, that's hundreds of thousands of people that the Republican bill will kill. All to pay for enormous tax breaks for the rich.

Given that my son is one of the people with pre-existing conditions who will be adversely affected by the Republican bill, as you can imagine I have a problem with that. (Hell, so do I, but I'm pretty sure I'll keep my current job and its health insurance until I'm eligible for Medicare. Sure would be nice, though, to have the option to retire before I reach that age. As a practical matter, this bill will take that option away from me as well. On the plus side, it's that many more years I'll have excess cash I can contribute to the opponents of people who vote for this monstrosity.) --Bob
In the history of mankind, "Loss of Medical Insurance" has never been a cause of death. An excuse, yes, but never the cause.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Bob78164
Bored Moderator
Posts: 21626
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: By the phone

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#6 Post by Bob78164 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:32 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Whoops, I made a mistake. Pelosi says it's hundreds of thousands of people will die. Let's pass it now.
The CBO estimates that 22 million people (including 15 million next year) will lose health insurance. If the loss of health insurance is fatal to only 1% of those people, that's hundreds of thousands of people that the Republican bill will kill. All to pay for enormous tax breaks for the rich.

Given that my son is one of the people with pre-existing conditions who will be adversely affected by the Republican bill, as you can imagine I have a problem with that. (Hell, so do I, but I'm pretty sure I'll keep my current job and its health insurance until I'm eligible for Medicare. Sure would be nice, though, to have the option to retire before I reach that age. As a practical matter, this bill will take that option away from me as well. On the plus side, it's that many more years I'll have excess cash I can contribute to the opponents of people who vote for this monstrosity.) --Bob
In the history of mankind, "Loss of Medical Insurance" has never been a cause of death. An excuse, yes, but never the cause.
A distinction without a difference for those who die of treatable conditions because they can't get necessary treatment because they can't afford it and couldn't get insurance. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 12780
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#7 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:40 pm

Bob #s,

How do you sleep at night thinking you've killed 1,000s of kids in Africa?

I realize you've had disposable income that you could have sent to CARE or UNICEF that could have been used to feed those children. But you didn't, at least you didn't send it all. And now you blame yourself for their deaths. Deaths you caused because of your own selfishness. Your own desire to spend that money on things you wanted, trips to bridge tournaments, eating out with your family, when you could have gotten by with some soup and crackers at home. Maybe even a new car, when your city has an excellent public transportation system.

No wonder you're so cranky, all that sleep you're losing.

I don't blame you for their deaths Bob. You shouldn't either. I'm here if you want to talk.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Bob78164
Bored Moderator
Posts: 21626
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: By the phone

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#8 Post by Bob78164 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:49 pm

BackInTex wrote:Bob #s,

How do you sleep at night thinking you've killed 1,000s of kids in Africa?

I realize you've had disposable income that you could have sent to CARE or UNICEF that could have been used to feed those children. But you didn't, at least you didn't send it all. And now you blame yourself for their deaths. Deaths you caused because of your own selfishness. Your own desire to spend that money on things you wanted, trips to bridge tournaments, eating out with your family, when you could have gotten by with some soup and crackers at home. Maybe even a new car, when your city has an excellent public transportation system.

No wonder you're so cranky, all that sleep you're losing.

I don't blame you for their deaths Bob. You shouldn't either. I'm here if you want to talk.
I'm fine because we're using my tax dollars (and those like me) to provide health insurance for millions of Americans. We're talking about taking health care from tens of millions of people (including my son after he turns 26) to fund a huge tax cut directed exclusively to the rich. As far as I'm concerned, that's an immoral political position, and since it's one that will directly affect both me and my family, I am very motivated to ensure that any elected official supporting that decision pays for it with his or her career. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 12780
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#9 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:06 pm

Bob78164 wrote:I'm fine because we're using my tax dollars (and those like me) to provide health insurance for millions of Americans.
But you're still killing those kids in Africa.

Bob78164 wrote: We're talking about taking health care from tens of millions of people (including my son after he turns 26)
You're son won't have health care after he turns 26? Why? Because you choose to use YOUR money to fly places and play bridge. Its all about priorities. If he will have needs, you should be putting money away now so that he has it available then. Unless something else is more important to you.

Bob78164 wrote: ... to fund a huge tax cut directed exclusively to the rich.
You can't fund a tax cut. What may happen is folks who earn more money than most will get to keep more of their money (or put another way), folks who don't make as much money as you or I will get less of our money. Guess what? You can use that extra money to pay for your son's medical bills....or play bridge. Your choice.

Bob78164 wrote: As far as I'm concerned, that's an immoral political position..
What is an immoral position, is forcing someone to pay more money to cover your son's medical bills while you have enough disposable income to afford to fly across the county to play cards.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
flockofseagulls104
Posts: 7742
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#10 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:41 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
frogman042 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:I'm beginning to change my mind on it, based on Bernie and Pelosi's claim that thousands of people will die if it gets passed. If these people are so against it that they go back to this kind of stupid shit, it must have some merits.
Your post reminded me of the Golda Meir quote: "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."

It would be a better world if people based their views on their desire for good outcomes based on the reality of something then their hate of those they disagree with.
I'd put it a different way. When flock frames the argument as "they're for it so I'm against it," he's being really fucking cavalier about my son's health, not to mention my financial future, and I'm pretty pissed off about it. --Bob
It must be so nice to have the moral high ground about everything. I was being sarcastic, bob. The Nancy Pelosis and Bernie Sanders' of the world can spout off this fucking nonsense all day long, and the media never calls them on it. In fact they view them as heroes. Most thinking people see through their over the top propaganda and that is why your party is losing election after election, bob.

I do not like any part of the bill that's being thrown around. Your son would be so much better off if we got the federal government the hell out of healthcare and let the free market and competition sort it out. But that would be over your and your party's dead body. Bernie wants to go to single payer, no surprise there. Want to go to single payer?
http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/healthcare ... -1.3171718
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

User avatar
Bob78164
Bored Moderator
Posts: 21626
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: By the phone

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#11 Post by Bob78164 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:49 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:I'm fine because we're using my tax dollars (and those like me) to provide health insurance for millions of Americans.
But you're still killing those kids in Africa.

Bob78164 wrote: We're talking about taking health care from tens of millions of people (including my son after he turns 26)
You're son won't have health care after he turns 26? Why? Because you choose to use YOUR money to fly places and play bridge. Its all about priorities. If he will have needs, you should be putting money away now so that he has it available then. Unless something else is more important to you.

Bob78164 wrote: ... to fund a huge tax cut directed exclusively to the rich.
You can't fund a tax cut. What may happen is folks who earn more money than most will get to keep more of their money (or put another way), folks who don't make as much money as you or I will get less of our money. Guess what? You can use that extra money to pay for your son's medical bills....or play bridge. Your choice.

Bob78164 wrote: As far as I'm concerned, that's an immoral political position..
What is an immoral position, is forcing someone to pay more money to cover your son's medical bills while you have enough disposable income to afford to fly across the county to play cards.
The amount of money I spend in a year to play bridge wouldn't come close to paying for a year's worth of insurance premiums for those with pre-existing conditions, such as my son.

But it's true, as long as I can work, I'll probably make enough that I can afford to keep my son insured, assuming that carriers don't simply decide that he's completely uninsurable. I seriously doubt, though, that many of our non-lawyer employees are so fortunate. And it's still an immoral choice to fund that tax cut with the health care of millions of people. Particularly since, as the CBO's analysis makes clear, many of those people will be forced to choose between paying for health insurance and paying for food or rent.

It would be one thing if the increased taxes hurt the economy. But our experience under the Affordable Care Act (and after other tax increases) demonstrates quite clearly that they don't. This is nothing more than a payoff to contributors to Republican congressional campaigns, and a betrayal of the voters who elected Donny. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Bob78164
Bored Moderator
Posts: 21626
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: By the phone

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#12 Post by Bob78164 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:54 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
frogman042 wrote: Your post reminded me of the Golda Meir quote: "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."

It would be a better world if people based their views on their desire for good outcomes based on the reality of something then their hate of those they disagree with.
I'd put it a different way. When flock frames the argument as "they're for it so I'm against it," he's being really fucking cavalier about my son's health, not to mention my financial future, and I'm pretty pissed off about it. --Bob
It must be so nice to have the moral high ground about everything. I was being sarcastic, bob. The Nancy Pelosis and Bernie Sanders' of the world can spout off this fucking nonsense all day long, and the media never calls them on it. In fact they view them as heroes. Most thinking people see through their over the top propaganda and that is why your party is losing election after election, bob.

I do not like any part of the bill that's being thrown around. Your son would be so much better off if we got the federal government the hell out of healthcare and let the free market and competition sort it out. But that would be over your and your party's dead body. Bernie wants to go to single payer, no surprise there. Want to go to single payer?
http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/healthcare ... -1.3171718
I'd sure as hell like a public option to be available. Medicare works. It works well. I'd like anyone interested to have the opportunity to buy into it.

You have never explained how private insurance companies add value to the medical system, but if forced to compete with Medicare, they'll either prove their value or suffer the fate deserved by any private company whose value doesn't justify its costs. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
silverscreenselect
Posts: 23174
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:21 pm
Contact:

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#13 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:58 pm

BackInTex wrote: What is an immoral position, is forcing someone to pay more money to cover your son's medical bills while you have enough disposable income to afford to fly across the county to play cards.
We "force" people to pay for a lot of things for the common good. Bob might be able to pay for the roads that go to his house and the police and fire department that protect him and the court system that allows him to make his living, or he might go broke trying to fund all those. The point is that we shouldn't force people to be in that situation. We think nothing of sending tons of money for disaster relief after a hurricane or earthquake instead of telling people, sorry you should have saved for a rainy day instead of playing bridge.

Do we really want a society where everyone has to choose between letting loved ones die or bankrupting themselves?

We may be in the same situation as Bob. Our daughter has no medical insurance and isn't likely to get any when she gets out of school, and she's not in the best of health as is. If she gets seriously ill, we face a choice between gutting our retirement finances or letting whatever happens to her happen. Either way, that would devastate Mrs. SSS.

I'm not defending the choices our daughter has made with her life, but we may have to face an agonizing decision. Bob may face that same decision. And so will thousands of others unnecessarily.

Those who will be "forced" to pay have received the benefit of living in this country to a far greater extent than most of those who face early deaths.
Check out our website: http://www.silverscreenvideos.com

User avatar
flockofseagulls104
Posts: 7742
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#14 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:04 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:I'd put it a different way. When flock frames the argument as "they're for it so I'm against it," he's being really fucking cavalier about my son's health, not to mention my financial future, and I'm pretty pissed off about it. --Bob
It must be so nice to have the moral high ground about everything. I was being sarcastic, bob. The Nancy Pelosis and Bernie Sanders' of the world can spout off this fucking nonsense all day long, and the media never calls them on it. In fact they view them as heroes. Most thinking people see through their over the top propaganda and that is why your party is losing election after election, bob.

I do not like any part of the bill that's being thrown around. Your son would be so much better off if we got the federal government the hell out of healthcare and let the free market and competition sort it out. But that would be over your and your party's dead body. Bernie wants to go to single payer, no surprise there. Want to go to single payer?
http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/healthcare ... -1.3171718
I'd sure as hell like a public option to be available. Medicare works. It works well. I'd like anyone interested to have the opportunity to buy into it.

You have never explained how private insurance companies add value to the medical system, but if forced to compete with Medicare, they'll either prove their value or suffer the fate deserved by any private company whose value doesn't justify its costs. --Bob
Single payer would be more like the VA than medicare, bob.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

User avatar
Bob78164
Bored Moderator
Posts: 21626
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: By the phone

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#15 Post by Bob78164 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:07 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote: It must be so nice to have the moral high ground about everything. I was being sarcastic, bob. The Nancy Pelosis and Bernie Sanders' of the world can spout off this fucking nonsense all day long, and the media never calls them on it. In fact they view them as heroes. Most thinking people see through their over the top propaganda and that is why your party is losing election after election, bob.

I do not like any part of the bill that's being thrown around. Your son would be so much better off if we got the federal government the hell out of healthcare and let the free market and competition sort it out. But that would be over your and your party's dead body. Bernie wants to go to single payer, no surprise there. Want to go to single payer?
http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/healthcare ... -1.3171718
I'd sure as hell like a public option to be available. Medicare works. It works well. I'd like anyone interested to have the opportunity to buy into it.

You have never explained how private insurance companies add value to the medical system, but if forced to compete with Medicare, they'll either prove their value or suffer the fate deserved by any private company whose value doesn't justify its costs. --Bob
Single payer would be more like the VA than medicare, bob.
Wrong. In VA, the doctors are government employees. No one is talking about making all doctors government employees. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
flockofseagulls104
Posts: 7742
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#16 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:22 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:I'd sure as hell like a public option to be available. Medicare works. It works well. I'd like anyone interested to have the opportunity to buy into it.

You have never explained how private insurance companies add value to the medical system, but if forced to compete with Medicare, they'll either prove their value or suffer the fate deserved by any private company whose value doesn't justify its costs. --Bob
Single payer would be more like the VA than medicare, bob.
Wrong. In VA, the doctors are government employees. No one is talking about making all doctors government employees. --Bob
If you would read the answer that I gave you to your question that you keep saying I didn't answer, you will see that you are wrong about that. Now, was Obama lying about Obamacare? Why don't you answer my question?
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

User avatar
jaybee
Posts: 1922
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#17 Post by jaybee » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:29 pm

Bait the hook, cast the line, see what you pull in.
Bait the hook, cast the line, see what you pull in.
Bait the hook, cast the line, see what you pull in.
Bait the hook, cast the line, see what you pull in.
Bait the hook, cast the line, see what you pull in.
Bait the hook, cast the line, see what you pull in.
Bait the hook, cast the line, see what you pull in.
Bait the hook, cast the line, see what you pull in.
Jaybee

Spock
Posts: 4295
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:01 pm

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#18 Post by Spock » Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:30 pm

Stolen off the interwebz.

>>>"In hell you have to listen to both sides of Congress grandstand about their cosmetically different versions of healthcare for all eternity."<<<<

User avatar
flockofseagulls104
Posts: 7742
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#19 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:28 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:I'd sure as hell like a public option to be available. Medicare works. It works well. I'd like anyone interested to have the opportunity to buy into it.

You have never explained how private insurance companies add value to the medical system, but if forced to compete with Medicare, they'll either prove their value or suffer the fate deserved by any private company whose value doesn't justify its costs. --Bob
Single payer would be more like the VA than medicare, bob.
Wrong. In VA, the doctors are government employees. No one is talking about making all doctors government employees. --Bob
Well bob, you think the government would run healthcare good. I happen to think they'll mess it up, it will cost at least 50 times as much as they say it will, and it will be fraught with corruption and waste. We seem to have a difference in opinion, as do the dems and repubs. So you can tell everyone that I want hundreds of thousands of people to die, or you can engage in reasoned debate. See how Pelosi, Sanders and Schumer and the rest of the democrat party have decided to approach it?
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

User avatar
Bob78164
Bored Moderator
Posts: 21626
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: By the phone

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#20 Post by Bob78164 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:10 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Single payer would be more like the VA than medicare, bob.
Wrong. In VA, the doctors are government employees. No one is talking about making all doctors government employees. --Bob
Well bob, you think the government would run healthcare good. I happen to think they'll mess it up, it will cost at least 50 times as much as they say it will, and it will be fraught with corruption and waste. We seem to have a difference in opinion, as do the dems and repubs. So you can tell everyone that I want hundreds of thousands of people to die, or you can engage in reasoned debate. See how Pelosi, Sanders and Schumer and the rest of the democrat party have decided to approach it?
No one is talking about the government running health care. That's not how Medicare works. We're talking about making Medicare available for all, and we have over fifty years of evidence demonstrating that Medicare works extremely well. If you don't believe me, find a politician anywhere running for re-election based on a platform of cutting back Medicare or relieving seniors of the "obligation" to use it. You won't find one because the people who actually use Medicare know full well just how well it works.

Our difference of opinion is not equivalent. Mine is based on fifty years of evidence. Yours requires ignoring fifty years of evidence. You may be entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.

And it's not just my opinion that the Republican bill will cost 22 million people their health insurance in order to fund a huge tax cut for the rich. It's the CBO's. And again, we have years of evidence. The uninsured rate is lower now than it has ever been since the statistic has been measured and that drop occurred as soon as the Affordable Care Act kicked in. So again, my opinion that the Affordable Care Act works is based on actual evidence (though there's certainly room for improvement). Yours appears based on ideology that is willfully blind to evidence. And until that changes, your opinion earns neither respect nor deference in these quarters.

In contrast, BiT is arguing straight up (as I understand him) that the correct moral choice is to cut taxes for the rich (he frames it as letting them keep more of their own money), even if the cost of doing so is keeping affordable insurance available for millions of Americans. I can (and obviously do) vigorously disagree with that value judgment but I can at least respect it. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 12780
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#21 Post by BackInTex » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:58 am

Bob78164 wrote:No one is talking about the government running health care. That's not how Medicare works. We're talking about making Medicare available for all, and we have over fifty years of evidence demonstrating that Medicare works extremely well. If you don't believe me, find a politician anywhere running for re-election based on a platform of cutting back Medicare or relieving seniors of the "obligation" to use it. You won't find one because the people who actually use Medicare know full well just how well it works.

If you think people who use something where they get something at a deep discount (or even at no cost) and are happy about it means it works well, then there is no arguing with you. You are beyond reason.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
flockofseagulls104
Posts: 7742
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#22 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:55 am

your opinion earns neither respect nor deference in these quarters.
Oh My God! No!
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

User avatar
silverscreenselect
Posts: 23174
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:21 pm
Contact:

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#23 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:17 am

BackInTex wrote: If you think people who use something where they get something at a deep discount (or even at no cost) and are happy about it means it works well, then there is no arguing with you. You are beyond reason.
Well, when you consider the "good old days," it does work fairly well as opposed to people simply dying off quickly. Here's an article about the "good old days."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... alth-care/

One thing that the article touches on is that medical science wasn't nearly as effective then as it is now in treating patients and prolonging meaningful life. So, in many cases, medical care was fairly cheap because there simply was no better care available for certain diseases and conditions regardless of cost.

Also, a lot of people who had medical insurance back then had retiree coverage through various collective bargaining agreements or other benefit plans. The chances of that still existing today in the absence of Medicare would be infinitesimal.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... alth-care/
Check out our website: http://www.silverscreenvideos.com

User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 12780
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#24 Post by BackInTex » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:58 am

silverscreenselect wrote:Well, when you consider the "good old days," it does work fairly well as opposed to people simply dying off quickly. Here's an article about the "good old days."
It depends on whether you want to live longer, or better.

As the costs rise, because new technologies developed funded by money (conscripted earnings) and as the uncontrolled spending of those conscripted earnings creates the inelastic demand for medical care, our mix of spending between healthcare and life's enjoyment will become more heavily weighted to healthcare. This is over a lifetime as while young you will pay for the elderly's extended but more expensive living so there will be less and less to spend on life's enjoyment.

The problem I have with all this is "who's choice"?

If I'm O.K. with refusing twice daily dialysis if needed when I'm 75 so when I'm younger I can fly across the country to play bridge, or make sure every year I get to see all the Oscar nominated movies in Dolby THX Widescreen in reclining seats, I should be able to make that choice. And I should be able to do those things with the money I earn and not have to pay for someone else's dialysis because they don't want to die, even though they lived a life of burgers, fries, cigars, and alcohol.

This is where we're headed. No consequences to lifestyle choices (other than some discomfort) because we have all the money to spend to develop and deliver treatment to prolong the life in a self-damaged body. And unfortunately, there will be little left to life up to that point.

We will run out of money. And then there will be "death panels" deciding the age where dialysis is no longer provided, or deciding which patient gets the last remaining bed in the hospital.

We don't need the government to fund anything. Folks have money to pay for their healthcare (for the most part). Starbucks 2016 revenues (worldwide) were over $21 billion. Every single dollar of that was discretionary spend. It could have been spent for healthcare (or health insurance), but the customers decided they'd rather have a mocha grande or scone. The average American spends $65 month on cable. 258 billion cigarettes were sold in the U.S. last year. I don't have the $ that represents, but a lot of the money spent was by folks getting some of my conscripted earnings to supplement or fully pay for their healthcare.

For those truly in need, there are charities to meet the gaps. And I'm O.K. with government programs paying for preventative care.

Many say "It's not right that someone goes bankrupt due to medical costs". Why? It's no more unfair that a family going bankrupt due to the death of the primary wage earner. That happens all the time. Life is not fair. The government can not make it fair, or even fairer. It can only improve someone's life by taking from someone else's. There is no creation by government. Are we to now provide a life insurance stipend for every wage earner who dies so their family doesn't have to sell the house and move in with parents?

At the end of the day, people die. We will never be able to prevent that. We should get to choose how we live, what efforts we want to put forth and how we want to use the reward of those efforts. For those who choose to put in a lot of effort, the rewards are not guaranteed, but they should get to choose how those rewards are used, not having the government (as an agent of the less effort giving or rewarded folks) decide how those rewards are use.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
silverscreenselect
Posts: 23174
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:21 pm
Contact:

Re: republican's healthcare plan

#25 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:57 am

BackInTex wrote: The government can not make it fair, or even fairer. It can only improve someone's life by taking from someone else's. There is no creation by government.
Here's the problem with your argument. The wealthy have been using the government for years to make things easier on them to get even wealthier. Donald Trump is a prime example who has used corporate, bankruptcy, and real estate law to his advantage to walk away from debts over and over again. And providing medical care improves society by allowing people and their families to be more productive. How much money has it cost to keep Stephen Hawking alive all these years? Millions. Has it been worth it? Definitely.
Check out our website: http://www.silverscreenvideos.com

Post Reply