Which part should have left me unfazed? The lockdown in my building all afternoon or the shooting of 49 people half a world away? Just so I know what it takes for you to agree that something is worth getting upset about. --Bobtlynn78 wrote:My goodness panties are in a twist, aren't they. Poor boos. Try decaf.
From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
Well, judging by the manifesto, those whistles sure caught the attention of one dog. Donald Trump speaks the language that the bigots and white nationalists understand. Yet even when the proof is staring you in the face, you choose to believe the rationalizations and excuses.flockofseagulls104 wrote: Your made up 'dog whistles' don't count.
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
A madman kills 49 worshipers in a place of worship 8,000 miles away.
One man of 7.7 billion people on the planet.
SSS, Bob#s, and other TDS sufferers blame Trump.
NYU students blame Chelsea Clinton
I will blame the shooter.
Trump does not spew hate. Trump does not condone hate. The only hate I see are these white supremacists (and they are neither Trump or his base), "Black Panther" types (who are neither Barack Obama or his base) and folks on the left attacking people for wearing a hat or shirt, or for not agreeing with their beliefs. I do see people, like Bob#s, making stuff up about what they think (actually wish) Trump and his supporters believe. That is because, deep down, they do not really believe in freedom of expression or thought and they wish to squash their opponents desire, or even ability, to express those beliefs, either by bullying, persecution, or legislation.
One man of 7.7 billion people on the planet.
SSS, Bob#s, and other TDS sufferers blame Trump.
NYU students blame Chelsea Clinton
I will blame the shooter.
Trump does not spew hate. Trump does not condone hate. The only hate I see are these white supremacists (and they are neither Trump or his base), "Black Panther" types (who are neither Barack Obama or his base) and folks on the left attacking people for wearing a hat or shirt, or for not agreeing with their beliefs. I do see people, like Bob#s, making stuff up about what they think (actually wish) Trump and his supporters believe. That is because, deep down, they do not really believe in freedom of expression or thought and they wish to squash their opponents desire, or even ability, to express those beliefs, either by bullying, persecution, or legislation.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
~~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
Let's be precise. I don't blame Donny for pulling the trigger. I blame him for creating an atmosphere where incidents like this were bound to become a lot more likely.BackInTex wrote:A madman kills 49 worshipers in a place of worship 8,000 miles away.
One man of 7.7 billion people on the planet.
SSS, Bob#s, and other TDS sufferers blame Trump.
NYU students blame Chelsea Clinton
I will blame the shooter.
Trump does not spew hate. Trump does not condone hate. The only hate I see are these white supremacists (and they are neither Trump or his base), "Black Panther" types (who are neither Barack Obama or his base) and folks on the left attacking people for wearing a hat or shirt, or for not agreeing with their beliefs. I do see people, like Bob#s, making stuff up about what they think (actually wish) Trump and his supporters believe. That is because, deep down, they do not really believe in freedom of expression or thought and they wish to squash their opponents desire, or even ability, to express those beliefs, either by bullying, persecution, or legislation.
And it's Donny who has also been using his bully pulpit, from his days as a candidate until the day before yesterday, to encourage physical violence against his political opponents. And you don't seem to give a damn.
Fine. We took out a whole bunch of Congressional enablers throughout the country in November 2018 (including the one in your very own Congessional District). We'll just do what we did here in California, continuing to remove them from power until there aren't enough of them left to harm anyone. And if Republican voters ever do start insisting on representation who will actually stand up against the bullshit Donny spews, even at the risk of their jobs, then maybe they'll deserve a seat at the table again. Until then, it's time to bulldoze them. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
You keep saying that like its true. You've got one quote from a rally about a protester in that rally.Bob78164 wrote: I don't blame Donny for pulling the trigger. I blame him for creating an atmosphere where incidents like this were bound to become a lot more likely.
And it's Donny who has also been using his bully pulpit, from his days as a candidate until the day before yesterday, to encourage physical violence against his political opponents. And you don't seem to give a damn.
What did Trump say the day before yesterday that "encouraged physical violence" against folks in general? I've been on vacation, so maybe I missed it.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
~~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
BackInTex wrote:You keep saying that like its true. You've got one quote from a rally about a protester in that rally.Bob78164 wrote: I don't blame Donny for pulling the trigger. I blame him for creating an atmosphere where incidents like this were bound to become a lot more likely.
And it's Donny who has also been using his bully pulpit, from his days as a candidate until the day before yesterday, to encourage physical violence against his political opponents. And you don't seem to give a damn.
What did Trump say the day before yesterday that "encouraged physical violence" against folks in general? I've been on vacation, so maybe I missed it.
Later the White House claimed Trump meant his supporters would defend him against left-wing violence, not become violent themselves. This quote is from an interview on Breitbart, white supremacists' favorite network. IMHO a president shouldn't be seen there at all.President Trump wrote:So here’s the thing—it’s so terrible what’s happening. You know, the left plays a tougher game, it’s very funny. I actually think that the people on the right are tougher, but they don’t play it tougher. Okay?
I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump – I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad.
Слава Україні!
עם ישראל חי
עם ישראל חי
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
It's amazing how guys like the New Zealand shooter have no problem figuring out what Trump means, while Flock, BiT, and the talking heads at Toxic News seem totally shocked that anyone could find Trump's words objectionable.jarnon wrote:
Later the White House claimed Trump meant his supporters would defend him against left-wing violence, not become violent themselves. This quote is from an interview on Breitbart, white supremacists' favorite network. IMHO a president shouldn't be seen there at all.
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
It looks like I won't have to. The Attorney General of New Zealand just announced that the country will ban semi-automatic rifles. If only Congress could respond to a national emergency and a national tragedy that quickly. (How long did it take us to respond to Pearl Harbor?) --BobBeebs52 wrote:Will you be lobbying for New Zealand gun control or what?
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
That’s great! Because a pshyopath intent on killing dozens of people will now decide “Oh, I.K. I’ll behave now. “Bob78164 wrote:It looks like I won't have to. The Attorney General of New Zealand just announced that the country will ban semi-automatic rifles. If only Congress could respond to a national emergency and a national tragedy that quickly. (How long did it take us to respond to Pearl Harbor?) --BobBeebs52 wrote:Will you be lobbying for New Zealand gun control or what?
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
~~ Thomas Jefferson
- flockofseagulls104
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
You guys are sure in an outrage now that you've finally found an atrocity that fits your narrative. Damn, you have plenty of others to choose from, but you seem to be very selective in your outrage.
Do you have any outrage for this?
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/atta ... ?Yr=Last30
How about this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... anizations
I think that's enough...
Who should we blame for creating the atmosphere for these atrocities?
Just for inquiring minds: Why do we have 24 hour worldwide coverage of this one atrocity, but almost nothing on the ones I had to go looking for. Are they not equally evil?
Do you have any outrage for this?
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/atta ... ?Yr=Last30
How about this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... anizations
I think that's enough...
Who should we blame for creating the atmosphere for these atrocities?
Just for inquiring minds: Why do we have 24 hour worldwide coverage of this one atrocity, but almost nothing on the ones I had to go looking for. Are they not equally evil?
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
Here's what Media Bias Fact Check has to say about "The Religion of Peace."flockofseagulls104 wrote: Do you have any outrage for this?
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/atta ... ?Yr=Last30
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-religion-of-peace/In reality, this is a website that promotes anti-Muslim propaganda through only posting negative information about Islam, such as crimes that may not be related to ones religion such as this where they link to a Mixed factual source. In general, this source links to other media that has a right wing bias or is otherwise questionable by our methodology. The Religion of Peace also sources Robert Spencer in articles, who is on the Southern Poverty Law Center’s hate list. Overall, we rate The Religion of Peace as Questionable for having an extreme right wing bias, promotion of conspiracy/propaganda and hate group tendencies. (D. Van Zandt 9/15/2017)
Many of the incidents they list are in countries in which there is an active civil war going on involving one group of Muslims against another. Most of the wars in Europe over the past 2000 years have pitted one group of Christians against another, and I doubt anyone would call them acts of Christian terrorism.
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
Suitguy is not bitter.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
Media Bias Fact Check?silverscreenselect wrote:Here's what Media Bias Fact Check has to say about "The Religion of Peace."flockofseagulls104 wrote: Do you have any outrage for this?
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/atta ... ?Yr=Last30
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-religion-of-peace/In reality, this is a website that promotes anti-Muslim propaganda through only posting negative information about Islam, such as crimes that may not be related to ones religion such as this where they link to a Mixed factual source. In general, this source links to other media that has a right wing bias or is otherwise questionable by our methodology. The Religion of Peace also sources Robert Spencer in articles, who is on the Southern Poverty Law Center’s hate list. Overall, we rate The Religion of Peace as Questionable for having an extreme right wing bias, promotion of conspiracy/propaganda and hate group tendencies. (D. Van Zandt 9/15/2017)
Many of the incidents they list are in countries in which there is an active civil war going on involving one group of Muslims against another. Most of the wars in Europe over the past 2000 years have pitted one group of Christians against another, and I doubt anyone would call them acts of Christian terrorism.
SPLC Hate List?
BAT-PHONE!
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
Ignorance is bliss, so you must be one very happy person Flock.flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Media Bias Fact Check?
SPLC Hate List?
BAT-PHONE!
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
Ben Carson was once on the SPLC hate list. You can think of me as ignorant if you want, if it makes you feel better, but it won't win any arguments for you.silverscreenselect wrote:Ignorance is bliss, so you must be one very happy person Flock.flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Media Bias Fact Check?
SPLC Hate List?
BAT-PHONE!
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
New Zealand announces immediate ban of assault rifles
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 230544002/New Zealand is banning all assault rifles, high-capacity magazines and military-style semi-automatic rifles in response to the nation's deadliest massacre in history, the country's prime minister announced Thursday.
Jacinda Ardern said the ban goes into effect immediately and would be followed by legislation next month. New Zealand's citizens should make arrangements to turn in weapons banned under the new laws, Ardern told the nation in a live television announcement.
"On March 15, the nation witnessed a terrorist attack that demonstrated the weakness of New Zealand's gun laws," Ardern said. "The guns used in this attack had the power to shoot continuously. The times for the easy availability of these weapons must end. And today, they will."
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
I'm sure there is a long line of White Nationalists forming to turn their guns in now, to cooperate with the law.Vandal wrote:New Zealand announces immediate ban of assault rifles
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 230544002/New Zealand is banning all assault rifles, high-capacity magazines and military-style semi-automatic rifles in response to the nation's deadliest massacre in history, the country's prime minister announced Thursday.
Jacinda Ardern said the ban goes into effect immediately and would be followed by legislation next month. New Zealand's citizens should make arrangements to turn in weapons banned under the new laws, Ardern told the nation in a live television announcement.
"On March 15, the nation witnessed a terrorist attack that demonstrated the weakness of New Zealand's gun laws," Ardern said. "The guns used in this attack had the power to shoot continuously. The times for the easy availability of these weapons must end. And today, they will."
Why don't they first ban murder, mass murder, shooting people with the intent to murder, and terrorism. Seems that would be the first place to start.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
~~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
Of course, by your logic, we shouldn't have laws against murder, because murderers don't stop killing to cooperate with the law.BackInTex wrote:I'm sure there is a long line of White Nationalists forming to turn their guns in now, to cooperate with the law.Vandal wrote:New Zealand announces immediate ban of assault rifles
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 230544002/New Zealand is banning all assault rifles, high-capacity magazines and military-style semi-automatic rifles in response to the nation's deadliest massacre in history, the country's prime minister announced Thursday.
Jacinda Ardern said the ban goes into effect immediately and would be followed by legislation next month. New Zealand's citizens should make arrangements to turn in weapons banned under the new laws, Ardern told the nation in a live television announcement.
"On March 15, the nation witnessed a terrorist attack that demonstrated the weakness of New Zealand's gun laws," Ardern said. "The guns used in this attack had the power to shoot continuously. The times for the easy availability of these weapons must end. And today, they will."
Why don't they first ban murder, mass murder, shooting people with the intent to murder, and terrorism. Seems that would be the first place to start.
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
You should stop trying to use the word logic, or even its concept, in your responses. It doesn't work.silverscreenselect wrote:Of course, by your logic, we shouldn't have laws against murder, because murderers don't stop killing to cooperate with the law.BackInTex wrote:I'm sure there is a long line of White Nationalists forming to turn their guns in now, to cooperate with the law.Vandal wrote:New Zealand announces immediate ban of assault rifles
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 230544002/
Why don't they first ban murder, mass murder, shooting people with the intent to murder, and terrorism. Seems that would be the first place to start.
Let me see if I can help.
1. Laws banning murder are good. Murder is a bad thing and those that commit it should be punished.
2. Laws banning guns are bad. Owning a gun is not a bad thing.
3. Using guns for bad purposes is bad and should be banned. See #1.
Banning guns denies law abiding people of something. It does little to non-law abiding people. You not wanting to own a gun and not appreciating the utility of ownership is no reason to ban ownership.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
~~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
If only there were a foreign example to test whether banning these weapons appreciably reduced mass murders and deaths by firearms. Then we'd be able to argue from actual evidence instead of ideology. --BobBackInTex wrote:I'm sure there is a long line of White Nationalists forming to turn their guns in now, to cooperate with the law.Vandal wrote:New Zealand announces immediate ban of assault rifles
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 230544002/New Zealand is banning all assault rifles, high-capacity magazines and military-style semi-automatic rifles in response to the nation's deadliest massacre in history, the country's prime minister announced Thursday.
Jacinda Ardern said the ban goes into effect immediately and would be followed by legislation next month. New Zealand's citizens should make arrangements to turn in weapons banned under the new laws, Ardern told the nation in a live television announcement.
"On March 15, the nation witnessed a terrorist attack that demonstrated the weakness of New Zealand's gun laws," Ardern said. "The guns used in this attack had the power to shoot continuously. The times for the easy availability of these weapons must end. And today, they will."
Why don't they first ban murder, mass murder, shooting people with the intent to murder, and terrorism. Seems that would be the first place to start.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
You've combined "owning guns" with "owning assault weapons." Those aren't the same thing. Further, banning assault weapons will have an effect eventually on the number of those in circulation. Guns break; guns wear out; guns are seized by law enforcement. The supply will dwindle, and although there will undoubtedly continue to be black market arms dealers, not every would-be mass shooter has reliable access to these sources.BackInTex wrote: Banning guns denies law abiding people of something. It does little to non-law abiding people.
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
Here is a reasonable article about mass shootingsBob78164 wrote:If only there were a foreign example to test whether banning these weapons appreciably reduced mass murders and deaths by firearms. Then we'd be able to argue from actual evidence instead of ideology. --BobBackInTex wrote:I'm sure there is a long line of White Nationalists forming to turn their guns in now, to cooperate with the law.Vandal wrote:New Zealand announces immediate ban of assault rifles
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 230544002/
Why don't they first ban murder, mass murder, shooting people with the intent to murder, and terrorism. Seems that would be the first place to start.
The article's definition of mass shooting:
-4 or more people killed
-Excludes shootings tied to gang disputes or robberies that went awry
-Excludes domestic shootings that took place exclusively in private homes.
How many mass shooting have there been...since 1966? 162
How many people have been killed in mass shootings....since 1966? 1,153
How many shooters.....since 1966? 166
How many guns involved.....since 1966? 309
How many were illegally obtained? At least 59. (171 obtained legally, unknown how 79 were acquired)
Even I was surprised by the stats, how few true mass shootings and deaths there were. 1,153 deaths in 53 years, less than 22 a year.
I'd say your priorities are in the wrong place. Secure the borders and we can save a lot more people than that.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
~~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
I assume these people are excluded from mass shooting statistics because the victims aren't quite as dead as the victims of other mass shootings? --BobBackInTex wrote:Here is a reasonable article about mass shootings
The article's definition of mass shooting:
-4 or more people killed
-Excludes shootings tied to gang disputes or robberies that went awry
-Excludes domestic shootings that took place exclusively in private homes.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
This is more of the same old bullshit that fails to acknowledge the evidence that immigrants (both authorized and unauthorized) are less likely than authorized residents to commit crimes, including violent crimes. That's particularly true if you disregard status offenses arising from their entry into the country -- recall that unauthorized presence in the United States is a civil violation, not a crime.BackInTex wrote:Secure the borders and we can save a lot more people than that.
The average mass shooter is a homegrown white nationalist. And I can't think of a single mass shooting -- not one -- that has been carried out by an unauthorized immigrant. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: From the Manifesto of the New Zealand Shooter
Talk about your bullshit.Bob78164 wrote:This is more of the same old bullshit that fails to acknowledge the evidence that immigrants (both authorized and unauthorized) are less likely than authorized residents to commit crimes, including violent crimes. That's particularly true if you disregard status offenses arising from their entry into the country -- recall that unauthorized presence in the United States is a civil violation, not a crime.BackInTex wrote:Secure the borders and we can save a lot more people than that.
The average mass shooter is a homegrown white nationalist.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
~~ Thomas Jefferson