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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:31 am 
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tlynn78 wrote:
But hey, as long as Bob isn't impacted, it's not a problem, right?


No one denies that illegal immigrants don't commit crimes. But tossing out a handful of sensational cases as "proof" that the problem is an epidemic is like me pointing to the winners page of the lottery website as proof than buying lottery tickets is a good financial investment.

The statistics consistently show that illegal immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than do legal immigrants who in turn commit crimes at a lower rate than do natural born citizens. Here's one of the more recent reports from the Cato Institute (a libertarian think tank, not a traditional left winger) to that effect:

https://www.cato.org/blog/illegal-immig ... g-evidence

Even in the anecdotal evidence you presented, at least two of those individuals were in the country illegally because they overstayed legal visas or other work permits. So all the walls and fences and border patrols in the world wouldn't have stopped them. Continuing to toss tons of money in this effort because "it's illegal" is like a small town police department spending most of its time cracking down on jaywalkers.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:13 am 
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The only way to keep out of the country all immigrants who are willing to commit a crime is simply to keep out of the country all immigrants, period. --Bob


bob-tel, the way to keep out immigrants who are willing to commit crimes is to handle immigration the way we have always handled it until the democrats figured they could use it to increase the number of people who could eventually vote for them and the republicans decided they could use them for cheap labor:

By accepting those people who come into our country through an organized process.
By knowing who were are accepting, and doing at least some vetting of them.
By giving them a path to achieve full citizenship as long as they assimilate into our society and culture.

Not by letting anyone and everyone walk over our border and giving them preferential treatment ahead of those who have applied for entry and have followed our laws and over current citizens, like your state does.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:16 am 
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Millions of unauthorized aliens in the country, and all you can find is enough to fit in a medium-length post?


What do you want? A full list? You need to get your brain injury looked at.

And you got it half right, so that's progress. It's ILLEGAL Aliens.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:24 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
What do you want? A full list? You need to get your brain injury looked at.


And once again, other than your mere recitation of the phrase "Illegal Aliens" over and over, you haven't given one valid reason why we should be making such a crackdown a federal priority when we could be spending the money stopping really dangerous people like domestic terrorists or, instead of building a useless fence, spend the money on repairing our infrastructure.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:56 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
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Millions of unauthorized aliens in the country, and all you can find is enough to fit in a medium-length post?


What do you want? A full list? You need to get your brain injury looked at.

And you got it half right, so that's progress. It's ILLEGAL Aliens.
As a lawyer, I always know that I've got the other side on the ropes when they combine a refusal to actually respond to my points with personal insults. Thanks for illustrating the phenomenon.

And by your logic, authorized immigrants never commit crimes against people or property. I'm thinking that the evidence doesn't support that conclusion.

I'd have a lot more sympathy for your position if we were only using our border controls to vet for dangerous people. But we're using them for much more than that. We're using them to impose an economic quota that is bad for our economy. If everyone who was "well behaved" could count on being able to enter the country at Port of Entry, they'd do that instead of risking life and limb (and paying a bunch of money) to make the crossing through an inhospitable desert. Hell, that's what the refugees are doing even though they know that Donny has done everything he could to stack the deck against them.

And if the "safe" people had an incentive to use Ports of Entry, then we'd know with a lot more confidence that people who are evading those Ports of Entry are doing so because they're dangerous, not just because they're starving and need a job. And that would make it a lot easier to actually catch the dangerous people. --Bob

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:20 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
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Millions of unauthorized aliens in the country, and all you can find is enough to fit in a medium-length post?


What do you want? A full list? You need to get your brain injury looked at.

And you got it half right, so that's progress. It's ILLEGAL Aliens.
As a lawyer, I always know that I've got the other side on the ropes when they combine a refusal to actually respond to my points with personal insults. Thanks for illustrating the phenomenon.

And by your logic, authorized immigrants never commit crimes against people or property. I'm thinking that the evidence doesn't support that conclusion.

I'd have a lot more sympathy for your position if we were only using our border controls to vet for dangerous people. But we're using them for much more than that. We're using them to impose an economic quota that is bad for our economy. If everyone who was "well behaved" could count on being able to enter the country at Port of Entry, they'd do that instead of risking life and limb (and paying a bunch of money) to make the crossing through an inhospitable desert. Hell, that's what the refugees are doing even though they know that Donny has done everything he could to stack the deck against them.

And if the "safe" people had an incentive to use Ports of Entry, then we'd know with a lot more confidence that people who are evading those Ports of Entry are doing so because they're dangerous, not just because they're starving and need a job. And that would make it a lot easier to actually catch the dangerous people. --Bob

No bob-tel. You question has been answered sufficiently. And its not by my logic, but by your distorted logic. I don't deal in absolutes like you do. Knowing who is entering our country will result in a lot less people who come here and commit crimes like the ones you ignored because it wasn't a complete list.
And you claim to be a lawyer, but have you ever used the defense that your client broke the law but "judge, the law he broke was unfair, my law firm is better off financially because he broke the law, and we are part of the community so we are all better off. And he didn't bother me, he is a good worker and I like him"
That's what you are telling us. You may be a lawyer but I am appalled by what you say here.
Mitch McConnell is not preventing the Dem controlled house from proposing or working to find some solution to stop the crisis. Again I ask you: why the fuck won't they do something?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:40 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:

What do you want? A full list? You need to get your brain injury looked at.

And you got it half right, so that's progress. It's ILLEGAL Aliens.
As a lawyer, I always know that I've got the other side on the ropes when they combine a refusal to actually respond to my points with personal insults. Thanks for illustrating the phenomenon.

And by your logic, authorized immigrants never commit crimes against people or property. I'm thinking that the evidence doesn't support that conclusion.

I'd have a lot more sympathy for your position if we were only using our border controls to vet for dangerous people. But we're using them for much more than that. We're using them to impose an economic quota that is bad for our economy. If everyone who was "well behaved" could count on being able to enter the country at Port of Entry, they'd do that instead of risking life and limb (and paying a bunch of money) to make the crossing through an inhospitable desert. Hell, that's what the refugees are doing even though they know that Donny has done everything he could to stack the deck against them.

And if the "safe" people had an incentive to use Ports of Entry, then we'd know with a lot more confidence that people who are evading those Ports of Entry are doing so because they're dangerous, not just because they're starving and need a job. And that would make it a lot easier to actually catch the dangerous people. --Bob

No bob-tel. You question has been answered sufficiently. And its not by my logic, but by your distorted logic. I don't deal in absolutes like you do. Knowing who is entering our country will result in a lot less people who come here and commit crimes like the ones you ignored because it wasn't a complete list.
And you claim to be a lawyer, but have you ever used the defense that your client broke the law but "judge, the law he broke was unfair, my law firm is better off financially because he broke the law, and we are part of the community so we are all better off. And he didn't bother me, he is a good worker and I like him"
That's what you are telling us. You may be a lawyer but I am appalled by what you say here.
Mitch McConnell is not preventing the Dem controlled house from proposing or working to find some solution to stop the crisis. Again I ask you: why the fuck won't they do something?
The House has passed a bill. McConnell has pledged to let it molder.

So you are exactly wrong when you say that McConnell isn't preventing the Democrats from enacting a solution. That is exactly what he's doing. And he's proud of it.

But you keep calling this a crisis. A crisis is when tens of thousands of Americans are killed in preventable ways each and every year. A crisis is when dozens of schoolchildren are gunned down in their classrooms each and every year.

Immigation isn't remotely close to a crisis. It's not even a problem, except to the families that get broken up because Donny is pandering to the base. You just find it an annoyance because some of them commit crimes. And you don't give a damn that the contributions they make to our society far outweigh the relatively few criminals that will be present in any large group. --Bob

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:03 pm 
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But you keep calling this a crisis. A crisis is when tens of thousands of Americans are killed in preventable ways each and every year.


Change the subject again, bob-tel, when you know you are wrong.
When the dems actually decide they want to fix the problem and stop playing political games, maybe there can be progress, but they won't. They want to look for a crime they can pin on the president, and if they can't find one, wasting time and sabotaging the duly elected president is fine with them. And with you.

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You just find it an annoyance because some of them commit crimes. And you don't give a damn that the contributions they make to our society far outweigh the relatively few criminals that will be present in any large group.


Regardless of how I feel about them, they are not supposed to be here, bob-tel, no matter how well-behaved they are. That's the friggin law, bob-tel. The LAW, remember? Did Acme School of Law have any courses on the law, bob-tel? If you want anybody and everybody to come across the border and stay here, CHANGE THE FUCKING LAW. And good luck with that. The way it works, bob-tel, is if you don't have enough people or votes to change the law to your liking, you obey and enforce the laws that are already there. You don't just go ahead and do whatever the hell you want.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:09 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
When the dems actually decide they want to fix the problem and stop playing political games, maybe there can be progress, but they won't.


What the Democrats won't do is pass a bill that gives Trump a rubber stamp to do what he wants. Your definition of "progress" is giving Trump what he wants. That's not what the voters elected some 40 new Democratic Congressmen (and women) to do.

Democrats now pass legislation. McConnell buries it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:44 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Regardless of how I feel about them, they are not supposed to be here, bob-tel, no matter how well-behaved they are. That's the friggin law, bob-tel.
It was THE LAW that Rosa Parks was supposed to sit in the back of that bus. It still is THE LAW that using marijuana for any purpose is a felony, punishable upon conviction by a lengthy stint in federal prison. I don't see you up in arms about violating those laws.

Subverting, undermining, and flat-out disobeying unjust laws is one of the ways those laws get changed. Because those actions help illustrate for the people their unjust effects.

Democrats are working to make immigration laws a lot more just. But the ONLY reasons you've provided that immigration is a CRISIS is that some immigrants commit crimes and some of the immigrants who commit crimes aren't authorized to be here. It's kind of obvious from almost every perspective that taken as a group, immigrants, including those who are unauthorized, are making the country a lot better than it would otherwise be, and it's not even a particularly close call. Which is why you don't have an actual answer to what makes the presence of unauthorized immigrants bad for the country.

And believe me, the people who are reading this thread but would never dream of exposing themselves to the vitriol you spew, or to tgirl's name-calling, are taking note of your collective inability to answer. They're probably even thinking about that question themselves, rather than just unquestioningly accepting as a premise that the presence of unauthorized immigrants is bad.

So until the majority of the country is able to work its will over the entrenched opposition of the minority of the country that votes Republican, you can count on me to support my friends and neighbors who want nothing more than to remain here, work hard, raise their American families, and contribute to their adopted home. Even if some parts of their adopted home want to evict them. --Bob

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:40 am 
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Bob78164 wrote:
It was THE LAW that Rosa Parks was supposed to sit in the back of that bus.
You are horribly ill-informed on that case, and, as usual, make things up.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:07 am 
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Estonut wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
It was THE LAW that Rosa Parks was supposed to sit in the back of that bus.
You are horribly ill-informed on that case, and, as usual, make things up.



Law, schmaw! Truth, .. um schmuth? TRUMP, ya'll!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:42 am 
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Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Regardless of how I feel about them, they are not supposed to be here, bob-tel, no matter how well-behaved they are. That's the friggin law, bob-tel.
It was THE LAW that Rosa Parks was supposed to sit in the back of that bus. It still is THE LAW that using marijuana for any purpose is a felony, punishable upon conviction by a lengthy stint in federal prison. I don't see you up in arms about violating those laws.

Subverting, undermining, and flat-out disobeying unjust laws is one of the ways those laws get changed. Because those actions help illustrate for the people their unjust effects.

Democrats are working to make immigration laws a lot more just. But the ONLY reasons you've provided that immigration is a CRISIS is that some immigrants commit crimes and some of the immigrants who commit crimes aren't authorized to be here. It's kind of obvious from almost every perspective that taken as a group, immigrants, including those who are unauthorized, are making the country a lot better than it would otherwise be, and it's not even a particularly close call. Which is why you don't have an actual answer to what makes the presence of unauthorized immigrants bad for the country.

And believe me, the people who are reading this thread but would never dream of exposing themselves to the vitriol you spew, or to tgirl's name-calling, are taking note of your collective inability to answer. They're probably even thinking about that question themselves, rather than just unquestioningly accepting as a premise that the presence of unauthorized immigrants is bad.

So until the majority of the country is able to work its will over the entrenched opposition of the minority of the country that votes Republican, you can count on me to support my friends and neighbors who want nothing more than to remain here, work hard, raise their American families, and contribute to their adopted home. Even if some parts of their adopted home want to evict them. --Bob


Yes, let's equate chaos on our southern border with Rosa Parks. Incredible.
You are quite the SJW, aren't you. As long as you keep it in the confines of the State of California, knock yourselves out. But if you want to export it to the est of the country, you will get pushback, and lots of it. Your evangelizing is really annoying and sickening. Keep your utopia in your own state. We'll watch from the sidelines as you collapse.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:59 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Selfishness is acting to preserve your own interests. Your self interest isn't necessarily mine. You can't live on SS, so, to protect your future you may want to save and invest.


How is your self-interest served by illegals not entering the country?

I will answer with a question after saying I don't think all current illegal residents need to be deported.
Do you believe in sovereign states and controlled immigration?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:00 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Regardless of how I feel about them, they are not supposed to be here, bob-tel, no matter how well-behaved they are. That's the friggin law, bob-tel.
It was THE LAW that Rosa Parks was supposed to sit in the back of that bus. It still is THE LAW that using marijuana for any purpose is a felony, punishable upon conviction by a lengthy stint in federal prison. I don't see you up in arms about violating those laws.

Subverting, undermining, and flat-out disobeying unjust laws is one of the ways those laws get changed. Because those actions help illustrate for the people their unjust effects.

Democrats are working to make immigration laws a lot more just. But the ONLY reasons you've provided that immigration is a CRISIS is that some immigrants commit crimes and some of the immigrants who commit crimes aren't authorized to be here. It's kind of obvious from almost every perspective that taken as a group, immigrants, including those who are unauthorized, are making the country a lot better than it would otherwise be, and it's not even a particularly close call. Which is why you don't have an actual answer to what makes the presence of unauthorized immigrants bad for the country.

And believe me, the people who are reading this thread but would never dream of exposing themselves to the vitriol you spew, or to tgirl's name-calling, are taking note of your collective inability to answer. They're probably even thinking about that question themselves, rather than just unquestioningly accepting as a premise that the presence of unauthorized immigrants is bad.

So until the majority of the country is able to work its will over the entrenched opposition of the minority of the country that votes Republican, you can count on me to support my friends and neighbors who want nothing more than to remain here, work hard, raise their American families, and contribute to their adopted home. Even if some parts of their adopted home want to evict them. --Bob


Yes, let's equate chaos on our southern border with Rosa Parks. Incredible.
You are quite the SJW, aren't you. As long as you keep it in the confines of the State of California, knock yourselves out. But if you want to export it to the est of the country, you will get pushback, and lots of it. Your evangelizing is really annoying and sickening. Keep your utopia in your own state. We'll watch from the sidelines as you collapse.
The only chaos on our southern border was the chaos Donny created when he decided to rip families apart.

You do realize, by the way, that for years Mexico has expended substantial resources interdicting Central American migrants crossing its territory? Given the way Donny's been treating them, why do you expect the populist government Mexico just elected to continue doing so? (If your answer is the threat of tariffs, bear in mind that given the importance of international trade to the Texas economy, if Donny carries through on his tariff threat, it would cost hundreds of thousands of jobs. In Texas. Where local politicians are already starting to worry whether Donny can carry the state next year. It's an empty threat and Mexico knows it.)

At least you'd be willing to leave alone the immigrants here in California, where their neighbors welcome them. Donny's not. The result is American children, living here in California, who no longer live in two-parent households.

And conservatives have been waiting quite a while for California to collapse. When they started waiting we were the world's eighth largest economy. Now we're fifth. So you may be waiting for quite a while longer. --Bob

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:08 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
It was THE LAW that Rosa Parks was supposed to sit in the back of that bus. It still is THE LAW that using marijuana for any purpose is a felony, punishable upon conviction by a lengthy stint in federal prison. I don't see you up in arms about violating those laws.

Subverting, undermining, and flat-out disobeying unjust laws is one of the ways those laws get changed. Because those actions help illustrate for the people their unjust effects.

Democrats are working to make immigration laws a lot more just. But the ONLY reasons you've provided that immigration is a CRISIS is that some immigrants commit crimes and some of the immigrants who commit crimes aren't authorized to be here. It's kind of obvious from almost every perspective that taken as a group, immigrants, including those who are unauthorized, are making the country a lot better than it would otherwise be, and it's not even a particularly close call. Which is why you don't have an actual answer to what makes the presence of unauthorized immigrants bad for the country.

And believe me, the people who are reading this thread but would never dream of exposing themselves to the vitriol you spew, or to tgirl's name-calling, are taking note of your collective inability to answer. They're probably even thinking about that question themselves, rather than just unquestioningly accepting as a premise that the presence of unauthorized immigrants is bad.

So until the majority of the country is able to work its will over the entrenched opposition of the minority of the country that votes Republican, you can count on me to support my friends and neighbors who want nothing more than to remain here, work hard, raise their American families, and contribute to their adopted home. Even if some parts of their adopted home want to evict them. --Bob


Yes, let's equate chaos on our southern border with Rosa Parks. Incredible.
You are quite the SJW, aren't you. As long as you keep it in the confines of the State of California, knock yourselves out. But if you want to export it to the est of the country, you will get pushback, and lots of it. Your evangelizing is really annoying and sickening. Keep your utopia in your own state. We'll watch from the sidelines as you collapse.
The only chaos on our southern border was the chaos Donny created when he decided to rip families apart.

You do realize, by the way, that for years Mexico has expended substantial resources interdicting Central American migrants crossing its territory? Given the way Donny's been treating them, why do you expect the populist government Mexico just elected to continue doing so? (If your answer is the threat of tariffs, bear in mind that given the importance of international trade to the Texas economy, if Donny carries through on his tariff threat, it would cost hundreds of thousands of jobs. In Texas. Where local politicians are already starting to worry whether Donny can carry the state next year. It's an empty threat and Mexico knows it.)

At least you'd be willing to leave alone the immigrants here in California, where their neighbors welcome them. Donny's not. The result is American children, living here in California, who no longer live in two-parent households.

And conservatives have been waiting quite a while for California to collapse. When they started waiting we were the world's eighth largest economy. Now we're fifth. So you may be waiting for quite a while longer. --Bob



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:13 pm 
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tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:

Yes, let's equate chaos on our southern border with Rosa Parks. Incredible.
You are quite the SJW, aren't you. As long as you keep it in the confines of the State of California, knock yourselves out. But if you want to export it to the est of the country, you will get pushback, and lots of it. Your evangelizing is really annoying and sickening. Keep your utopia in your own state. We'll watch from the sidelines as you collapse.
The only chaos on our southern border was the chaos Donny created when he decided to rip families apart.

You do realize, by the way, that for years Mexico has expended substantial resources interdicting Central American migrants crossing its territory? Given the way Donny's been treating them, why do you expect the populist government Mexico just elected to continue doing so? (If your answer is the threat of tariffs, bear in mind that given the importance of international trade to the Texas economy, if Donny carries through on his tariff threat, it would cost hundreds of thousands of jobs. In Texas. Where local politicians are already starting to worry whether Donny can carry the state next year. It's an empty threat and Mexico knows it.)

At least you'd be willing to leave alone the immigrants here in California, where their neighbors welcome them. Donny's not. The result is American children, living here in California, who no longer live in two-parent households.

And conservatives have been waiting quite a while for California to collapse. When they started waiting we were the world's eighth largest economy. Now we're fifth. So you may be waiting for quite a while longer. --Bob



One simply cannot debate bat-shit crazy.
I know, but I keep trying. Not because I expect to persuade the people participating in this thread. But because airing out those views is the best way I can think of to move people away from them.

But your problem in debating me is that you don't have actual facts that would back up your attempts to claim that unauthorized immigrants, as a whole, are bad for the country. You don't have those facts because in fact they're good for the country. We'd be better off just authorizing their entry. Then we could concentrate our efforts on removing the people who are actually dangerous. --Bob

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:38 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
The only chaos on our southern border was the chaos Donny created when he decided to rip families apart.

You do realize, by the way, that for years Mexico has expended substantial resources interdicting Central American migrants crossing its territory? Given the way Donny's been treating them, why do you expect the populist government Mexico just elected to continue doing so? (If your answer is the threat of tariffs, bear in mind that given the importance of international trade to the Texas economy, if Donny carries through on his tariff threat, it would cost hundreds of thousands of jobs. In Texas. Where local politicians are already starting to worry whether Donny can carry the state next year. It's an empty threat and Mexico knows it.)

At least you'd be willing to leave alone the immigrants here in California, where their neighbors welcome them. Donny's not. The result is American children, living here in California, who no longer live in two-parent households.

And conservatives have been waiting quite a while for California to collapse. When they started waiting we were the world's eighth largest economy. Now we're fifth. So you may be waiting for quite a while longer. --Bob



One simply cannot debate bat-shit crazy.
I know, but I keep trying. Not because I expect to persuade the people participating in this thread. But because airing out those views is the best way I can think of to move people away from them.

But your problem in debating me is that you don't have actual facts that would back up your attempts to claim that unauthorized immigrants, as a whole, are bad for the country. You don't have those facts because in fact they're good for the country. We'd be better off just authorizing their entry. Then we could concentrate our efforts on removing the people who are actually dangerous. --Bob


CHANGE THE F**KING LAW, BOB-TEL!!!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:56 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:


One simply cannot debate bat-shit crazy.
I know, but I keep trying. Not because I expect to persuade the people participating in this thread. But because airing out those views is the best way I can think of to move people away from them.

But your problem in debating me is that you don't have actual facts that would back up your attempts to claim that unauthorized immigrants, as a whole, are bad for the country. You don't have those facts because in fact they're good for the country. We'd be better off just authorizing their entry. Then we could concentrate our efforts on removing the people who are actually dangerous. --Bob


CHANGE THE F**KING LAW, BOB-TEL!!!!!
What's your point? That until we manage to get the law changed my state and I have an obligation to enthusiastically support unjust enforcement of a law that's far too broad? And that we have a further obligation to spend state resources as well as federal resources supporting this travesty?

Not going to happen. As written, and certainly as Donny has been applying it, the law is unjust. What he's doing is morally wrong as well as bad for the country. So I will exercise my right to refuse to cooperate. I will exercise my right to encourage others to refuse to cooperate. I will exercise my right to point out (as I've been doing here) that the law as written and applied is unjust and bad for our country and that those who like the law seem utterly unable to articulate a reason grounded in fact why the country is better off with the law as it is. (Thank you, by the way, for your invaluable assistance on this point. I knew I could count on you and you didn't let me down.) And I will exercise my right to support those who share my views of these matters. --Bob

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:06 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
I know, but I keep trying. Not because I expect to persuade the people participating in this thread. But because airing out those views is the best way I can think of to move people away from them.

But your problem in debating me is that you don't have actual facts that would back up your attempts to claim that unauthorized immigrants, as a whole, are bad for the country. You don't have those facts because in fact they're good for the country. We'd be better off just authorizing their entry. Then we could concentrate our efforts on removing the people who are actually dangerous. --Bob


CHANGE THE F**KING LAW, BOB-TEL!!!!!
What's your point? That until we manage to get the law changed my state and I have an obligation to enthusiastically support unjust enforcement of a law that's far too broad? And that we have a further obligation to spend state resources as well as federal resources supporting this travesty?

Not going to happen. As written, and certainly as Donny has been applying it, the law is unjust. What he's doing is morally wrong as well as bad for the country. So I will exercise my right to refuse to cooperate. I will exercise my right to encourage others to refuse to cooperate. I will exercise my right to point out (as I've been doing here) that the law as written and applied is unjust and bad for our country and that those who like the law seem utterly unable to articulate a reason grounded in fact why the country is better off with the law as it is. (Thank you, by the way, for your invaluable assistance on this point. I knew I could count on you and you didn't let me down.) And I will exercise my right to support those who share my views of these matters. --Bob

Were you this adamant during the last administration?

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Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:

CHANGE THE F**KING LAW, BOB-TEL!!!!!
What's your point? That until we manage to get the law changed my state and I have an obligation to enthusiastically support unjust enforcement of a law that's far too broad? And that we have a further obligation to spend state resources as well as federal resources supporting this travesty?

Not going to happen. As written, and certainly as Donny has been applying it, the law is unjust. What he's doing is morally wrong as well as bad for the country. So I will exercise my right to refuse to cooperate. I will exercise my right to encourage others to refuse to cooperate. I will exercise my right to point out (as I've been doing here) that the law as written and applied is unjust and bad for our country and that those who like the law seem utterly unable to articulate a reason grounded in fact why the country is better off with the law as it is. (Thank you, by the way, for your invaluable assistance on this point. I knew I could count on you and you didn't let me down.) And I will exercise my right to support those who share my views of these matters. --Bob

Were you this adamant during the last administration?
I generally agreed with how President Obama handled immigration. Particularly his focus on targeting enforcement resources against the unauthorized immigrants who had demonstrated by their conduct here that we truly didn't want them as neighbors. --Bob

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:40 pm 
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Perhaps I can put this in simple terms: If the law forbids Americans from providing water to thirsty human beings in the middle of a desert (which is exactly the position Donny's Justice Department is taking), then the law deserves to be disobeyed. I applaud the members of the jury who voted against conviction. --Bob

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Bob78164 wrote:
Perhaps I can put this in simple terms: If the law forbids Americans from providing water to thirsty human beings in the middle of a desert (which is exactly the position Donny's Justice Department is taking), then the law deserves to be disobeyed. I applaud the members of the jury who voted against conviction. --Bob


I have a hard time believing that Jesus would have obeyed this particular law.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:11 pm 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Perhaps I can put this in simple terms: If the law forbids Americans from providing water to thirsty human beings in the middle of a desert (which is exactly the position Donny's Justice Department is taking), then the law deserves to be disobeyed. I applaud the members of the jury who voted against conviction. --Bob


I have a hard time believing that Jesus would have obeyed this particular law.

I'm thinkin you don't know much about WWJD.

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Beebs52 wrote:
I'm thinkin you don't know much about WWJD.


Matthew 10:42 wrote:
Whoever gives only a cup of cold water to one of these little ones to drink because he is a disciple, amen, I say to you, he will surely not lose his reward.

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