Sad occurrence locally

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mrkelley23
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Sad occurrence locally

#1 Post by mrkelley23 » Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:06 pm

Only about 3 miles from my brother's house.

29-year-old woman goes to her grandma's house for Thanksgiving, takes her dog along. Dog strays into back-yard neighbor's yard, apparently enraging neighbor (also female, btw, not that that's necessarily relevant). Neighbor shoots handgun at dog, which is in her yard, and misses so badly that it hits visitng granddaughter, who is NOT in neighbor's yard. Victim is pronounced dead at local hospital.

Exactly the kind of story that gun control proponents bring up when trying to get stricter control on weapons.

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/n ... adesville/
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled. -- Richard Feynman

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peacock2121
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#2 Post by peacock2121 » Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:26 pm

Very sad.

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kayrharris
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#3 Post by kayrharris » Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:57 pm

One of those things that makes me say my out of character WTF?

Was the dog threatening anyone? Good grief, isn't a better way to handle getting a dog out of your back yard? Any charges brought against this woman?

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jayhawker536
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#4 Post by jayhawker536 » Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:44 pm

This story makes me want to hit something. I so long for the 50's of my childhood when I read things like this, knowing that these things probably happened back then also, communication was not like it is now so we did not hear about it as often.

I talked to my sister yesterday, the one just older than me, she's between Sister Sue and me in age. The story she told me did make me ill. She has a great-granddaughter Kianna, she and her family live in Phoenix. My nephew who works for Cox, was out installing some equipment and had a flat tire, his spare was low also, he called his wife and ask her to come get him so he could get both tires fixed. They were on their way to the garage, Kianna was fussing so Jasper did something that he has never done before, he took her out of her carseat and was holding her on his lap trying to soothe her.

They were approaching an intersection with a QT on the corner and all hell broke loose. Two cars came tearing out of the QT parking lot, shooting at each other, witnesses told police they had been arguing inside the store. Bullets pierced the driver's door of Jasper and Jessica's car, one bullet hit Jessica in her little fat roll from baby weight, another in her leg. She said the debris from the door hitting her hurt worse that the bullets but she still was in the hospital for a couple of days. She is going to be alright. So is Kianna, thanks to her daddy taking her out of her carseat and placing her safe and sound on his lap. Otherwise, she would be dead, bullet went right through her car seat, right where her little head would have been.

We can do everything humanly possible to protect our children, sometimes it takes divine intervention.

Our family truly did have something to be thankful for yesterday.

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kayrharris
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#5 Post by kayrharris » Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:59 pm

Then there's the former Univ of Alabama football player & his family who were returning home from a birthday party Tuesday night and within 2 miles of their home when hit by a drunk driver killing 5 of the 7 members of his family along with the driver of the truck that hit them. Only he and his 4 year old daughter survived the crash.

Several witnesses said the truck that hit them had run several other cars off the road and apparently hit their van at approximately 80 MPH. They never had a chance.

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/2 ... 21010/1007

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Re: Sad occurrence locally

#6 Post by silvercamaro » Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:41 pm

mrkelley23 wrote:Only about 3 miles from my brother's house.

29-year-old woman goes to her grandma's house for Thanksgiving, takes her dog along. Dog strays into back-yard neighbor's yard, apparently enraging neighbor (also female, btw, not that that's necessarily relevant). Neighbor shoots handgun at dog, which is in her yard, and misses so badly that it hits visitng granddaughter, who is NOT in neighbor's yard. Victim is pronounced dead at local hospital.

Exactly the kind of story that gun control proponents bring up when trying to get stricter control on weapons.

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/n ... adesville/
Mr. K, would you keep us updated as new information comes out on this story? I can't help but think there's something else going on here, and it may not have anything to do with the dog.

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#7 Post by mrkelley23 » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:17 pm

The only updates so far are of the rumor variety, as people post anonymous comments on the newspaper's website. Still, some of those have the ring of truth. They say that the woman who fired the gun has a history of run-ins with the neighbors (all of them, not just the unfortunate grandmother) and that the set-up of the yard makes it nearly impossible that she was actually aiming at the dog. Still, she has only been charged with involuntary manslaughter and reckless homicide, which my legal expert tells me would likely get her a maximum of 7 years in jail. I think it would be fairly difficult to prove a more sever charge in court, though, unless she really gets stupid(er) and confesses.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled. -- Richard Feynman

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Re: Sad occurrence locally

#8 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:44 am

mrkelley23 wrote:Exactly the kind of story that gun control proponents bring up when trying to get stricter control on weapons.
Regardless of whether this was an accident or a disgruntled neighbor who finally "had the last straw," it's another case of guns that were not bought by "criminals" winding up shooting innocent people.

I realize that some (how many is open to question) people who wish to use guns to commit crimes will still find ways to obtain them. It's the vast majority of other gun crimes that we can do something about: angry, depressed, careless, drunk or stupid people, kids playing with guns, and the like, but we don't.

Every day, when I leave my house, I see the cross and flowers across the parking lot that the family has put up in memory of the man who was shot to death six months ago, and I remember the hour I spent sitting on my porch looking at the dead man while waiting for the police to take my statement. He wasn't a criminal; the guys who shot him weren't "criminals." It was just a typical neighborhood argument fueled by alcohol that got out of hand because someone had a gun. Now one man is dead, a second may walk with a limp for life, a third may spend the rest of his life in prison and a fourth will spend several years in prison. And for what?

Just last week, there was more gunfire across the street late one night and another man was arrested. I don't think anyone was shot this time. The more people carrying guns doesn't make this type of violence less likely; it just gives more "law abiding" people the opportunity to make the one big mistake that ruins a lot of lives. If my dead neighbor had a gun, the exact result of what went down might have been a bit different, but it still wouldn't have been good. Or he might have gotten drunk or angry and pulled the gun earlier on a relative or neighbor.

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Update

#9 Post by mrkelley23 » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:04 am

Yesterday's paper had more details, which should make some of the reactionary comments made immediately after the first story (not here, on the local paper's website) look pretty foolish.

Shooter had an ongoing argument with neighbor, and apparently this same dog was part of the argument, having strayed into the yard before, causing complaints and hard feelings. The dog had (according to the shooter's husband, who doesn't sound all that reliable, either) dug up the family's dead pet cat earlier this year.

I was one of the ones who was very confused how someone could claim to be shooting at a dog in one yard and hit someone behind a fence in another yard. The shot (which was from a .357 Magnum! ye cats!) missed the dog, went into the ground, ricocheted off an underground structure (pipe or something) and bounced back up on the other side of the fence and hit the woman, who was knelt down by a hole in the fence trying to coax the dog (which was a Shih-Tsu less than a year old, BTW) back through the hole. It punctured both lungs and the heart. She was pronounced dead at the hospital, although she likely was dead at the scene.

The shooter is being charged with reckless homicide and involuntary manslaughter, which is likely the maximum that anyone could make stick. The ricochet is what makes her story about not intending to kill any humans plausible, but she had no reason to be discharging a firearm in a residential neighborhood. Indiana law does make it legal to shoot at an animal in your yard, but only if the animal is threatening in some way. It would be difficult at best to try to claim a Shih-Tsu puppy was threatening you.

The victim's obit was in the paper today. She leaves a young daughter and lots of nieces and nephews. As someone pointed out, no one in this family (or the other one) will ever look at Thanksgiving the same way again.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled. -- Richard Feynman

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Re: Update

#10 Post by PlacentiaSoccerMom » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:03 pm

mrkelley23 wrote:The victim's obit was in the paper today. She leaves a young daughter and lots of nieces and nephews. As someone pointed out, no one in this family (or the other one) will ever look at Thanksgiving the same way again.
I feel very sorry for the daughter and hope that there is some support system in place to take care of her.

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Re: Sad occurrence locally

#11 Post by BackInTex » Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:39 pm

silverscreenselect wrote: I realize that some (how many is open to question) people who wish to use guns to commit crimes will still find ways to obtain them. It's the vast majority of other gun crimes that we can do something about: angry, depressed, careless, drunk or stupid people, kids playing with guns, and the like, but we don't.
In this thread, discussed are two people killed by reckless use of guns and you advocate, apparently, tighter control, or outright ban.

Also in this thread is discussed 5 people getting killed by reckless use of automobiles.

I wish it would get through the thick skulls that it is not the tools doing these bad things. It is the people behind the tools.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Sad occurrence locally

#12 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:44 am

BackInTex wrote:I wish it would get through the thick skulls that it is not the tools doing these bad things. It is the people behind the tools.
I am well aware that it is the people who do the stupid things. However, it's like we learned in elementary school about fires. Fires are caused by three things: heat, fuel and oxygen. Remove any one of them and the fire goes out.

You can't get rid of stupid people. Take the guns out of their hands and you can prevent a tragedy. If the guy who shot my neighbor didn't have a gun, then he would still have been a stupid drunk, but the worst thing that would have happened might have been an argument and a fist fight.

Giving my neighbor a gun wouldn't have helped. Two angry drunks with guns is not a safer situation than one angry drunk with a gun; it just increases the potential for a violent conclusion. And if my neighbor had happened to have had a gun, his line of fire would have been towards my building.

I know you can't stop all the gun violence. I know that some criminals will still get guns no matter what laws you pass. But I can honestly say that I view those criminals as less of a threat to my life and that of my loved ones than the "law abiding citizens" who happen to make a tragic mistake of some sorts with their legally obtained guns. And I don't think that arming me or my loved ones and telling me that I have a sporting chance at coming out best in a Dodge City-styled shootout will make us any safer.

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Re: Sad occurrence locally

#13 Post by Bob Juch » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:14 am

silverscreenselect wrote:I don't think that arming me or my loved ones and telling me that I have a sporting chance at coming out best in a Dodge City-styled shootout will make us any safer.
If you don't have a weapon, you'd have no chance at all.
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#14 Post by peacock2121 » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:04 am

You can't get rid of stupid people.

Not gonna buy this one.

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