Transposing Music

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PlacentiaSoccerMom
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Transposing Music

#1 Post by PlacentiaSoccerMom » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:31 am

Maddie is trying out for a musical on Monday. Unlike her tryouts for Grease which were acapella, she has to sing 16 bars of a song accompanied by a piano in her key. The song she likes to sing "I'm A Stranger Here Myself" was in the wrong key, so we had to find new music.

She told me that somebody told her that she was a Mezzo, so we went to the music store and bought three books for Mezzos, including one that had CDs to practice with.

After we brought the books home, we started looking for songs. I called a high school friend who is now a choir director and asked for his help. He "diagnosed" her over the phone and said that she was and Alto who sings in the B Flat minor "harmonic" scale, so we had to find music in that range.

I haven't had piano lessons and have no clue about music. Maddie has had eight years of piano, so she could tell what key the sheet music we own is in, but few songs were written in the B Flat minor scale. We spent hours looking for a song for her.

Anyway, I found a site online called SheetMusicDigital.com. You can buy sheet music online at this site and their program, Solero, will will automatically transpose it up or down to the key that you need. It's amazingly helpful.

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cindy.wellman
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Re: Transposing Music

#2 Post by cindy.wellman » Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:25 am

PlacentiaSoccerMom wrote:Maddie is trying out for a musical on Monday. Unlike her tryouts for Grease which were acapella, she has to sing 16 bars of a song accompanied by a piano in her key. The song she likes to sing "I'm A Stranger Here Myself" was in the wrong key, so we had to find new music.

She told me that somebody told her that she was a Mezzo, so we went to the music store and bought three books for Mezzos, including one that had CDs to practice with.

After we brought the books home, we started looking for songs. I called a high school friend who is now a choir director and asked for his help. He "diagnosed" her over the phone and said that she was and Alto who sings in the B Flat minor "harmonic" scale, so we had to find music in that range.

I haven't had piano lessons and have no clue about music. Maddie has had eight years of piano, so she could tell what key the sheet music we own is in, but few songs were written in the B Flat minor scale. We spent hours looking for a song for her.

Anyway, I found a site online called SheetMusicDigital.com. You can buy sheet music online at this site and their program, Solero, will will automatically transpose it up or down to the key that you need. It's amazingly helpful.


thanks for the site link!!!

Have I mentioned lately how much I love technology? For reasons such as this, it makes me happy at the diverse ways we can use such things.

BTW, WOW at your friend who can 'diagnose' via the phone. WOWx2 at knowing the key in which she sings. I love music, so this is all very neat to me. I wish I could hear a note and know exactly what note it is, much less be able to tell that someone was more of an alto vs. a mezzo soprano vs. contralto etc.

Wowx3 at once again realizing how little I really do know.

8)

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Re: Transposing Music

#3 Post by TheConfessor » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:39 am

PlacentiaSoccerMom wrote:After we brought the books home, we started looking for songs. I called a high school friend who is now a choir director and asked for his help. He "diagnosed" her over the phone and said that she was and Alto who sings in the B Flat minor "harmonic" scale, so we had to find music in that range.
Sounds a little flaky to me. The key piece of information you need is her vocal range -- the lowest and highest notes that she can sing comfortably. You don't sing in a minor scale unless the song is written in a minor key, which some songs are, but most are not. Transposing the song to fit her vocal range would be very helpful, so that part makes a lot of sense. If she gets cast in the musical, she may not have the option to sing in the key of her choice, especially if it's not a solo piece, or if she'll be singing to prerecorded music. Good luck to Maddie.

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#4 Post by peacock2121 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:13 am

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I just want to wish Maddie good luck!

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#5 Post by mrkelley23 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:41 am

I"m with the Confessor on the fishiness. Maybe you misinterpreted what your choir director friend said? Because an alto does sound lovely singing in minor keys, and something written in B Flat minor would be right in the wheelhouse of a young alto, but the list of songs written in that key is purty short.

What's really sad/funny is that she could probably go to this audition and say to the accompanist, "I'm a Stranger Here Myself, in B flat," and he/she would say "OK, four for nothing." Which is accompanist speak for, "I'll play four bars of intro before your cue to come in." IOW, mosts pianists who play high school auditions already know most of the solo repertoire, and can transpose instantly. Which is a talent that absolutely floors me.

So which musical is she trying out for? And regardless, tell her to break one for us!
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled. -- Richard Feynman

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Re: Transposing Music

#6 Post by PlacentiaSoccerMom » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:38 am

TheConfessor wrote:
PlacentiaSoccerMom wrote:After we brought the books home, we started looking for songs. I called a high school friend who is now a choir director and asked for his help. He "diagnosed" her over the phone and said that she was and Alto who sings in the B Flat minor "harmonic" scale, so we had to find music in that range.
Sounds a little flaky to me. The key piece of information you need is her vocal range -- the lowest and highest notes that she can sing comfortably. You don't sing in a minor scale unless the song is written in a minor key, which some songs are, but most are not. Transposing the song to fit her vocal range would be very helpful, so that part makes a lot of sense. If she gets cast in the musical, she may not have the option to sing in the key of her choice, especially if it's not a solo piece, or if she'll be singing to prerecorded music. Good luck to Maddie.
I honestly do know how it works, I never studied piano.

Maddie sang for my friend, then he went to his piano and did some scales with her. Some notes she could reach and others she could not. He suggested that I get her a vocal coach because she has an interesting voice.

I looked at the transposing software and B flat minor is the same scare as D Flat major. If that means anything.

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#7 Post by PlacentiaSoccerMom » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:40 am

mrkelley23 wrote:I"m with the Confessor on the fishiness. Maybe you misinterpreted what your choir director friend said? Because an alto does sound lovely singing in minor keys, and something written in B Flat minor would be right in the wheelhouse of a young alto, but the list of songs written in that key is purty short.
He told her to look for songs in that key. We found very few, which probably doesn't surprised you.

Once I found the web site, I was able to find songs that she liked and have the software put them in her key.

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#8 Post by PlacentiaSoccerMom » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:55 am

mrkelley23 wrote: What's really sad/funny is that she could probably go to this audition and say to the accompanist, "I'm a Stranger Here Myself, in B flat," and he/she would say "OK, four for nothing." Which is accompanist speak for, "I'll play four bars of intro before your cue to come in." IOW, mosts pianists who play high school auditions already know most of the solo repertoire, and can transpose instantly. Which is a talent that absolutely floors me.

So which musical is she trying out for? And regardless, tell her to break one for us!

The choir director at her school will be playing the piano. She wasn't sure if he would be able to transpose the music and wanted it in her key. (She has also been playing the song while she sings, because she plays reasonably well.)

She is trying out for Seussical. As a Freshman, she knows that she will probably not get a lead, but she likes the role of Mayzie. (Maddie doesn't like ingenue roles, she likes anti-heroes and villians) Since she probably won't get cast as Mayzie, she wants to be one of Mayzie's bird girls. She likes the idea of being in a Greek Chorus of Birds.


Maddie is not a great dancer (she's got two left size 11 feet) so she really has to shine in the singing audition. Her voice is very quirky, it sounds old for a 14 year old, and people who know her are usually surprised by what comes out of her when she sings.

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#9 Post by PlacentiaSoccerMom » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:57 am

Here is Ute Lemper doing a cabaret version of the song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8C1TDUI1g8

Maddie likes to sing the song and imitate her, but she will not be doing cabaret for the audition.

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#10 Post by PlacentiaSoccerMom » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:59 am

peacock2121 wrote:I have no idea what you are talking about.

I just want to wish Maddie good luck!
Thank you :)

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#11 Post by TheCalvinator24 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:25 am

Most Musical audition calls ask for auditioners to bring sheet music in the key they want. Not all accompanists can transpose on the spot. At my community theatre, we have an electronic piano that can transpose for us. If someone came in and asked to transpose up or down a definite number of steps, the accompanist could play it as written, but it would come out in the key the singer wanted.
It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. —Albus Dumbledore

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#12 Post by mrkelley23 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:34 am

The high school where I teach did Seussical three years ago. It may be the perfect musical for a high school -- lots of lead roles, especially many which are gender neutral, so you can have umpteen thousand females if you want. The dancing can be as much or as little as you want, but the blocking is quite striking -- lots of people on stage for just about every scene. The language, not surprisingly, is squeaky clean, and the show is entertaining for young and old alike.

Tell Maddie for me that any role she gets in this one will be a good one -- all the roles give a young actor a huge opportunity to shine.

I know her high school is a big one (at least, I think I remember that) so there's a possibility she may not make the cast, but if she does, I'd love to see pics sometime, either here or in Phoenix.
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#13 Post by kayrharris » Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:56 pm

Good luck from me as well. It's great experience. I love singing, but get extremely nervous if I have to sing solo, so I applaud her at being able to handle the stage without any fear. Give me a duet or trio and I'm good to go. (I'm really a 2nd soprano, but usually sing first soprano, athough I have to sing alto in my church choir since I can read music.)

I'm sure she will do just fine no matter what the part.

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#14 Post by JBillyGirl » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:23 pm

First of all, I wish Maddie the very best of luck in getting a part she wants. Musicals are a lot of fun to be in.

Second, as for the musical range part -- Wow. Where do I begin? I'm with the Confessor and others who say that the choir director's advice, as you've presented it here, doesn't seem to make much sense and that you probably misunderstood what he said. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that "B flat minor harmonic scale" refers ONLY to the key Maddie sang that particular song in over the phone and NOT to the key she should sing in all the time. (I think maybe we can just leave out the word "harmonic" here, as it's basically irrelevant in this context and may only confuse things.) You could have a B-flat-minor song that goes way up into the stratosphere well above her range; what matters are the specific notes she'll have to sing in a given song.

The important thing to know is the full range of notes she can sing comfortably and what part of that range she is MOST comfortable in. It sounds like she's most comfortable in the lower part of her range. FWIW, the terms "alto," "mezzo," and "contralto" are a bit fuzzy, especially when you're talking about a teenager still growing into her voice. The main thing I get from what you're saying is that she's probably not a high voice, or soprano. If she gets vocal training, that may change. (Most women turn out to be sopranos once they've had some training, but untrained voices may lean more toward the alto range. I sang as a low alto for years until I took lessons and was reclassified as a high soprano who had been singing in my low voice.)

Please do not try to get all of her songs in the B-flat minor key. It would be very limiting musically, and as the Confessor rightly points out, she will be expected (rightly) to sing in all different kinds of keys, especially when singing in groups, and "key" has little or nothing to do with "range." ("Key" can go all the way up and down the range of the keyboard.) I think it may be more helpful to find the highest and lowest notes she can sing comfortably, and then to either eliminate songs with notes outside this range or transpose the songs to fit. As she does more singing, she may find out more specifically where her strengths are and can choose songs to emphasize them. I also think it'll be important to see where her good "high notes" lie, because the high notes are generally the "money notes" that judges will be looking for most in an audition.

I think some voice lessons might be a good idea for her, at least to find out where she is and to learn some basic techniques for singing healthily and well. This may be especially true if she turns out to be a "belter" (which is a term a voice teacher can explain better than I can here), as belting without proper support can damage the voice.

Anyway, I've talked too much, and I gotta go. Best of luck with everything!

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#15 Post by PlacentiaSoccerMom » Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:17 pm

Thank you for your advice, it is helpful, because I know nothing about musical notation and range, etc. I am trying to educate myself to help Maddie.

My friend was trying to help us out because her audition is on Monday.
He told Maddie what key to find a song in and I wasn't part of the conversation, so I am not sure about all of the details. After he was done talking to Maddie, he suggested voice lessons so that she could hit some highter notes. (Changing the sheet music to the different key really helped, but I understand that it is a temporary solution for the audition.)

Maddie's piano teacher is retiring in June and we decided that we are going to try to find a voice teacher for her and she can work on piano herself. Right now she is doing quiz bowl three times a week, mock trial three times a week, Comedy Sports once or twice a week and piano once a week and doesn't have time for anything else. (She just finished a play and hopefully her practices for this musical will be on Monday and Wednesday evenings, because otherwise she won't have time to do it.)

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