A loss for net neutrality

[Thousandaire]

Apparently, until the Bush Administration, the FCC treated Internet access services as common carriers and regulated them accordingly. Just as bus companies or phone companies, say, need to take all comers, so too did Internet access providers. Then the Bush Administration tried deregulation, and suddenly they wanted to start charging more to disfavored Web sites.

Name one company that has done this.

Ironically, it is Google, who favors net neutrality, who has used its power to discriminate against some customers:
http://techcrunch.com/2009/10/14/att-co ... o-the-fcc/

[Bob78164]

Apparently, until the Bush Administration, the FCC treated Internet access services as common carriers and regulated them accordingly. Just as bus companies or phone companies, say, need to take all comers, so too did Internet access providers. Then the Bush Administration tried deregulation, and suddenly they wanted to start charging more to disfavored Web sites.

Name one company that has done this.

Ironically, it is Google, who favors net neutrality, who has used its power to discriminate against some customers:
http://techcrunch.com/2009/10/14/att-co ... o-the-fcc/

I'm fairly sure that Comcast announced plans to do so, though as far as I know the plans weren't implemented. If there's no regulatory change, it won't take long until, say, Fox offers to pay the major access providers for "fast lane" access that is exclusive as to the other networks. --Bob

[ten96lt]

Apparently, until the Bush Administration, the FCC treated Internet access services as common carriers and regulated them accordingly. Just as bus companies or phone companies, say, need to take all comers, so too did Internet access providers. Then the Bush Administration tried deregulation, and suddenly they wanted to start charging more to disfavored Web sites.

Name one company that has done this.

Ironically, it is Google, who favors net neutrality, who has used its power to discriminate against some customers:
http://techcrunch.com/2009/10/14/att-co ... o-the-fcc/

I'm fairly sure that Comcast announced plans to do so, though as far as I know the plans weren't implemented. If there's no regulatory change, it won't take long until, say, Fox offers to pay the major access providers for "fast lane" access that is exclusive as to the other networks. --Bob

Wouldn't one giant class action lawsuit end the cable companies plans of continuing this practice if it happened? Our family recently got a check from ATT due to a settlement from a class action for doing something to the effect of misrepresenting their DSL internet speeds in advertisements (we now have Comcast). And we just got another card in the mail asking if we wanted to file a claim in a class action suit against comcast for discriminating against certain Peer to Peer file sharing programs. We didn't use any of them anyway and even if we did, I wouldn't want to admit in a class action claim that we used a Peer to Peer program. Can you say hello MPAA or the music companies snooping through those documents looking for a lawsuit? Anyway, I digress. I would imagine if the ISP's didn't keep the speeds uniform to go to each website, the lawyers would file a gigantic class action suit for faulty advertising of their speeds.

[Bob78164]

Wouldn't one giant class action lawsuit end the cable companies plans of continuing this practice if it happened?

Not if it's legal. That's the issue -- whether it should be legal. --Bob

[ten96lt]

Wouldn't one giant class action lawsuit end the cable companies plans of continuing this practice if it happened?

Not if it's legal. That's the issue -- whether it should be legal. --Bob

Well I'm saying they were doing it now with the Peer to Peer programs and got sued and lost. So if congress left they issue alone and say comcast started discriminating against sites like google for bing, wouldn't they be subject to liability again for faulty advertising? I would think any money they might make from a site paying them to speed up their loading time would be given back in another class action so it just wouldn't be worth it.

[Bob78164]

Wouldn't one giant class action lawsuit end the cable companies plans of continuing this practice if it happened?

Not if it's legal. That's the issue -- whether it should be legal. --Bob

Well I'm saying they were doing it now with the Peer to Peer programs and got sued and lost. So if congress left they issue alone and say comcast started discriminating against sites like google for bing, wouldn't they be subject to liability again for faulty advertising? I would think any money they might make from a site paying them to speed up their loading time would be given back in another class action so it just wouldn't be worth it.

Timing is important. As I understand matters from the article I linked, regulations precluded this for a while -- then the regulatory regime changed and the D.C. Circuit just concluded that under the new regulatory regime, the FCC is not entitled to require net neutrality. The FCC will have to make additional findings in order to reimpose the old regulations under a different regulatory regime. --Bob

[Thousandaire]

Wouldn't one giant class action lawsuit end the cable companies plans of continuing this practice if it happened?

Not if it's legal. That's the issue -- whether it should be legal. --Bob

Well I'm saying they were doing it now with the Peer to Peer programs and got sued and lost. So if congress left they issue alone and say comcast started discriminating against sites like google for bing, wouldn't they be subject to liability again for faulty advertising? I would think any money they might make from a site paying them to speed up their loading time would be given back in another class action so it just wouldn't be worth it.

No, they (Comcast) won. That's the point of the discussion. But Comcast wasn't charging different rates, they were blocking one site because they didn't like what they were doing (which I agree with).

Anyway my question to Bob is, since the net has been deregulated for several years. why haven't the ISP companies rushed to tiered service? What are they waiting for?

[Bob78164]

Anyway my question to Bob is, since the net has been deregulated for several years. why haven't the ISP companies rushed to tiered service? What are they waiting for?

If I correctly understand the New York Times article I linked above, it hasn't been deregulated for years. The Bush Administration chose to regulate it as an information service provider, rather than as a telecommunications service. The D.C. Circuit just concluded that under that regime, the FCC can't require net neutrality. Presumably, the reason the D.C. Circuit had occasion to make this ruling is that the FCC did, in fact, require net neutrality. --Bob

[Thousandaire]

Anyway my question to Bob is, since the net has been deregulated for several years. why haven't the ISP companies rushed to tiered service? What are they waiting for?

If I correctly understand the New York Times article I linked above, it hasn't been deregulated for years. The Bush Administration chose to regulate it as an information service provider, rather than as a telecommunications service. The D.C. Circuit just concluded that under that regime, the FCC can't require net neutrality. Presumably, the reason the D.C. Circuit had occasion to make this ruling is that the FCC did, in fact, require net neutrality. --Bob

First you say Bush deregulated the internet. Now you say it's been regulated all along. Which is it?

[Bob78164]

In the article I've linked above, Professor Crawford advocates redesignating Internet access providers as telecommunications services. That makes sense to me. --Bob

It looks like a majority of commissioners on the FCC are prepared to go this route. --Bob

[Bob78164]

Net neutrality is coming. The FCC will vote on February 26 to regulate Internet access providers as a telecommunications service. --Bob

[jarnon]

Net neutrality is coming. The FCC will vote on February 26 to regulate Internet access providers as a telecommunications service. --Bob

The Internet companies are fighting back. In our area (Comcast's home turf), there have been plenty of ads from Broadband for America, warning that the new rules will mean higher taxes and fees. It's like how the cable and phone companies (often divisions of the same corporations as the Internet providers) highlight every government fee on our bills. I'll take that risk to protect an open Internet.

[Bob78164]

Net neutrality is coming. The FCC will vote on February 26 to regulate Internet access providers as a telecommunications service. --Bob

The Internet companies are fighting back. In our area (Comcast's home turf), there have been plenty of ads from Broadband for America, warning that the new rules will mean higher taxes and fees. It's like how the cable and phone companies (often divisions of the same corporations as the Internet providers) highlight every government fee on our bills. I'll take that risk to protect an open Internet.

Kind of reminds me of how airlines were pretty quick to jack up their prices when fuel prices were increasing, but now that fuel prices are diving they don't seem to be in much of a hurry to lower prices. --Bob

[Bob Juch]

Net neutrality is coming. The FCC will vote on February 26 to regulate Internet access providers as a telecommunications service. --Bob

The Internet companies are fighting back. In our area (Comcast's home turf), there have been plenty of ads from Broadband for America, warning that the new rules will mean higher taxes and fees. It's like how the cable and phone companies (often divisions of the same corporations as the Internet providers) highlight every government fee on our bills. I'll take that risk to protect an open Internet.

Kind of reminds me of how airlines were pretty quick to jack up their prices when fuel prices were increasing, but now that fuel prices are diving they don't seem to be in much of a hurry to lower prices. --Bob

What goes down must come up. I filled-up last week at $1.719, my first in three months, and today when I drove downtown saw it was $1.789.

[jarnon]

Net neutrality is coming. The FCC will vote on February 26 to regulate Internet access providers as a telecommunications service. --Bob

Bob was right.

In Net Neutrality Victory, F.C.C. Classifies Broadband Internet Service as a Public Utility

[flockofseagulls104]

Net neutrality is coming. The FCC will vote on February 26 to regulate Internet access providers as a telecommunications service. --Bob

Bob was right.

In Net Neutrality Victory, F.C.C. Classifies Broadband Internet Service as a Public Utility

The internet has now been taken over by the Federal Government. We've lost more freedom. Way to go America.
We had to wait until they took over to find out what they're going to do. Nothing was released about the details of what this means. Only Tom Wheeler knows. Oh Joy.

[Bob78164]

Net neutrality is coming. The FCC will vote on February 26 to regulate Internet access providers as a telecommunications service. --Bob

Bob was right.

In Net Neutrality Victory, F.C.C. Classifies Broadband Internet Service as a Public Utility

The internet has now been taken over by the Federal Government. We've lost more freedom. Way to go America.
We had to wait until they took over to find out what they're going to do. Nothing was released about the details of what this means. Only Tom Wheeler knows. Oh Joy.

It means that the Internet will be subject to the same regulatory regime as cell phones have been for the last 20 years to so. That's worked out pretty well, as far as I'm concerned. --Bob

[Bob Juch]

Net neutrality is coming. The FCC will vote on February 26 to regulate Internet access providers as a telecommunications service. --Bob

Bob was right.

In Net Neutrality Victory, F.C.C. Classifies Broadband Internet Service as a Public Utility

The internet has now been taken over by the Federal Government. We've lost more freedom. Way to go America.
We had to wait until they took over to find out what they're going to do. Nothing was released about the details of what this means. Only Tom Wheeler knows. Oh Joy.

You really are an idiot, aren't you?

[jarnon]

Net neutrality is coming. The FCC will vote on February 26 to regulate Internet access providers as a telecommunications service. --Bob

Bob was right.

In Net Neutrality Victory, F.C.C. Classifies Broadband Internet Service as a Public Utility

The internet has now been taken over by the Federal Government. We've lost more freedom. Way to go America.
We had to wait until they took over to find out what they're going to do. Nothing was released about the details of what this means. Only Tom Wheeler knows. Oh Joy.

It's a matter of who you trust more to protect your interests, big government or big business?

You have more distrust of big government, and there are plenty of horror stories to prove your point:
Oakland Whistleblowers Say Veterans Being Denied Benefits

I'm more fearful of big companies like Comcast:
Another Comcast customer-service gaffe - this one vulgar and viral

Freedom, on the Internet or elsewhere, is an ideal that's rarely if ever achieved. The guys in power always try to take advantage of ordinary folk.

[Bob78164]

Bob was right.

In Net Neutrality Victory, F.C.C. Classifies Broadband Internet Service as a Public Utility

The internet has now been taken over by the Federal Government. We've lost more freedom. Way to go America.
We had to wait until they took over to find out what they're going to do. Nothing was released about the details of what this means. Only Tom Wheeler knows. Oh Joy.

It's a matter of who you trust more to protect your interests, big government or big business?

You have more distrust of big government, and there are plenty of horror stories to prove your point:
Oakland Whistleblowers Say Veterans Being Denied Benefits

I'm more fearful of big companies like Comcast:
Another Comcast customer-service gaffe - this one vulgar and viral

Freedom, on the Internet or elsewhere, is an ideal that's rarely if ever achieved. The guys in power always try to take advantage of ordinary folk.

Imagine Rupert Murdoch buying Time Warner, the only broadband service I have access to. Suddenly breitbart loads at the speed of light, while huffpost loads at the speed of molasses. Not possible any more. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

The internet has now been taken over by the Federal Government. We've lost more freedom. Way to go America.
We had to wait until they took over to find out what they're going to do. Nothing was released about the details of what this means. Only Tom Wheeler knows. Oh Joy.
It's a matter of who you trust more to protect your interests, big government or big business?

You have more distrust of big government, and there are plenty of horror stories to prove your point:
Oakland Whistleblowers Say Veterans Being Denied Benefits

I'm more fearful of big companies like Comcast:
Another Comcast customer-service gaffe - this one vulgar and viral

Freedom, on the Internet or elsewhere, is an ideal that's rarely if ever achieved. The guys in power always try to take advantage of ordinary folk.

I will go with big business every time. At least there's recourse. There's no recourse when the Government is in charge.

[flockofseagulls104]

Bob was right.

In Net Neutrality Victory, F.C.C. Classifies Broadband Internet Service as a Public Utility

The internet has now been taken over by the Federal Government. We've lost more freedom. Way to go America.
We had to wait until they took over to find out what they're going to do. Nothing was released about the details of what this means. Only Tom Wheeler knows. Oh Joy.It's a matter of who you trust more to protect your interests, big government or big business?

You have more distrust of big government, and there are plenty of horror stories to prove your point:
Oakland Whistleblowers Say Veterans Being Denied Benefits

I'm more fearful of big companies like Comcast:
Another Comcast customer-service gaffe - this one vulgar and viral

Freedom, on the Internet or elsewhere, is an ideal that's rarely if ever achieved. The guys in power always try to take advantage of ordinary folk.

Imagine Rupert Murdoch buying Time Warner, the only broadband service I have access to. Suddenly breitbart loads at the speed of light, while huffpost loads at the speed of molasses. Not possible any more. --Bob[/quote]

At least not while the democrats are in charge. The opposite would happen. (It would never happen!!!!) See the Internal Revenue Service...

There will be so many other things possible we can't even imagine now. The healthcare industry wasn't broken, but they decided to 'fix' it anyway. The immigration system wasn't broken, (only enforcement of it), but they decided to 'fix' it anyway. The internet is not broken, but now we need to 'fix' it. See a pattern there?

[flockofseagulls104]

You really are an idiot, aren't you?

Probably, but I'm not useful.

[Bob78164]

The healthcare industry wasn't broken . . . .

Like hell it wasn't. Millions of people have affordable health care now who didn't in the past. Lives have been saved. Families have avoided financial ruin. And every single "horror story" publicized by the right-wing doubt merchants proved flat-out false when examined in the light of day. People used to live in fear of losing their health coverage, and their family's health coverage, because they got crosswise with their boss or because they chose the wrong company (say, Enron) to work for. Not any more. --Bob

[silvercamaro]

Imagine Rupert Murdoch buying Time Warner, the only broadband service I have access to. Suddenly breitbart loads at the speed of light, while huffpost loads at the speed of molasses. Not possible any more. --Bob

Imagine liberal billionaire George Soros and the Ford Foundation donating $196 million to the quest for net neutrality and sending some of their people to the White House.... Wait. According to the Washington Examiner, that's exactly what already has happened.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/soros ... le/2560702