So, Who's your candidate? A Quiz

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Sir_Galahad
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#26 Post by Sir_Galahad » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:43 am

SportsFan68 wrote: It sounds good, SirG, and it would be good, if everybody were like you. But everybody isn't like you, far from it.
Yes, that's why this country is in the state that it's in. Everybody (well, OK, not everybody) is looking for a handout. I'm not rich by any stretch but I would sooner get out there and make my own way than sit on my fat a$$ munching Mallomars and waiting for my government check to arrive. If that's what you want, fine. I don't.
That's how we got Social Security -- we could deal with the problem of people who were destitute after the retirement or death of the primary breadwinner by forcing them to save, or we could deal directly with the destitution, which often included people dying of starvation or freezing or living homeless. Roosevelt implemented a way to make people save.
We are not in depressed times as we were in the 20's and 30's. The US of A is more prosperous now than it has ever been. We do not need drastic measures such as the ones Roosevelt implemented. At the time, they were great ideas and they got the country back on its feet. Now, we need to empower the people to make more of their own decisions - not less! If people cannot manage their own funds, that's their problem and they need to find ways to dig themselves out of that hole. Get the governement out of the bail-out business.
A history prof told me that many of the institutions we hold dear were espoused by Eugene Debs when he couldn't get elected as a socialist candidate for President, but his programs happened anyway for the reasons he was espousing them -- a more livable, more sustainable society.
So, then, you believe that Socialism is the way to go? Tax the rich to death; take away their incentives for becoming successful and re-distribute it to the poor? Why on earth would I would to go out and make my fortune only to know that Mrs. Clinton is going to take it away and give it to the Mallomar munchers? Sorry, I do not agree with you.
I asked a short while ago why everybody on this Bored who's so opposed to single payer health insurance for everybody isn't taking on Medicare in the same breath .... er, posts. Still no answer, unless I missed it.
What do mean by single-payer Health System. if you mean that everybody goes out and looks for their own insurance and pays their own way, then I'm all for that. But to add and/or raise taxes to help pay for a Socialist Health-Care system that is doomed to corruption and failure is pure madness. IMO.

Again, Medicare and Social Security were terrific implementations in their time. And, like millions of other baby boomers I have put (or was forced to put) thousands of dollars into it which I will expect to get out of it once I reach that age. But, like every other government implementation, it too will fail under its own weight. I would strongly favor doing away with Medicare and Social Security and having people "forced" to put away for themselves for their own retirement.

It's time to get out of the nanny-state mentality.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" - Edmund Burke

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#27 Post by SportsFan68 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:49 am

Here is the url for SelectSmart, which gave me 100% for Howard Dean about four years ago.

I got more than 90% for Kucinich on this one four years ago; I'll look into what changed. A couple questions this year weren't there four years ago; Kucinich and I probably differ on legal or illegal immigration or both.

http://www.selectsmart.com/president/2008.html

1. Theoretical Ideal Candidate (100%)
2. Barack Obama (85%) Information link
3. Alan Augustson (campaign suspended) (85%) Information link
4. Dennis Kucinich (81%) Information link
5. Al Gore (not announced) (76%) Information link
6. Joseph Biden (75%) Information link
7. Hillary Clinton (75%) Information link
8. Wesley Clark (not running, endorsed Clinton) (75%) Information link
9. Michael Bloomberg (says he will not run) (71%) Information link
10. Christopher Dodd (70%) Information link
11. John Edwards (70%) Information link
12. Bill Richardson (63%) Information link
13. Mike Gravel (62%) Information link
14. Ron Paul (51%) Information link
15. Elaine Brown (50%) Information link
16. Kent McManigal (campaign suspended) (47%) Information link
17. Mike Huckabee (29%) Information link
18. Rudolph Giuliani (29%) Information link
19. Tommy Thompson (withdrawn, endorsed Giuliani) (27%) Information link
20. John McCain (26%) Information link
21. Mitt Romney (20%) Information link
22. Fred Thompson (14%) Information link
23. Chuck Hagel (not running) (14%) Information link
24. Alan Keyes (13%) Information link
25. Newt Gingrich (says he will not run) (13%) Information link
26. Jim Gilmore (withdrawn) (13%) Information link
27. Sam Brownback (12%) Information link
28. Tom Tancredo (11%) Information link
29. Duncan Hunter (5%) Information link
-- In Iroquois society, leaders are encouraged to remember seven generations in the past and consider seven generations in the future when making decisions that affect the people.
-- America would be a better place if leaders would do more long-term thinking. -- Wilma Mankiller

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#28 Post by Appa23 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:00 am

I'm with MrK, in that most of my answers are more nuanced and complex than those given for most of the questions (though a simple yes or no for 3-4 of the issues).

No surprise that Sam Brownback and I think much alike, seeing that we living in similar bordering states.

Fred Thompson is the closest of the "serious" candiates at this time.


Also no surprise that I would rather chew glass and used needles than align myself with Clinton, Obama, Edwards, or Richardson.

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#29 Post by TheCalvinator24 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:01 am

The selectsmart site is blocked at my work as "Entertainment."
It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. —Albus Dumbledore

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#30 Post by earendel » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:11 am

SportsFan68 wrote:Here is the url for SelectSmart, which gave me 100% for Howard Dean about four years ago.
http://www.selectsmart.com/president/2008.html
Here's how mine came out from this survey:

1. Theoretical Ideal Candidate (100%)
2. Alan Augustson (campaign suspended) (87%) Information link
3. Barack Obama (84%) Information link
4. Dennis Kucinich (84%) Information link
5. Joseph Biden (78%) Information link
6. Hillary Clinton (76%) Information link
7. Christopher Dodd (72%) Information link
8. John Edwards (72%) Information link
9. Al Gore (not announced) (72%) Information link
10. Wesley Clark (not running, endorsed Clinton) (71%) Information link
11. Michael Bloomberg (says he will not run) (65%) Information link
12. Mike Gravel (63%) Information link
13. Bill Richardson (60%) Information link
14. Ron Paul (48%) Information link
15. Kent McManigal (campaign suspended) (46%) Information link
16. Elaine Brown (41%) Information link
17. Rudolph Giuliani (33%) Information link
18. Mike Huckabee (32%) Information link
19. John McCain (32%) Information link
20. Alan Keyes (23%) Information link
21. Mitt Romney (22%) Information link
22. Tommy Thompson (withdrawn, endorsed Giuliani) (21%) Information link
23. Chuck Hagel (not running) (20%) Information link
24. Fred Thompson (19%) Information link
25. Sam Brownback (16%) Information link
26. Tom Tancredo (15%) Information link
27. Jim Gilmore (withdrawn) (14%) Information link
28. Newt Gingrich (says he will not run) (13%) Information link
29. Duncan Hunter (12%) Information link
"Elen sila lumenn omentielvo...A star shines on the hour of our meeting."

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#31 Post by Sir_Galahad » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:14 am

Wow, ear! I didn't realize we were on such opposing ends of the political issues spectrum.
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#32 Post by earendel » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:16 am

Sir_Galahad wrote:Wow, ear! I didn't realize we were on such opposing ends of the political issues spectrum.
I did. And if there was any doubt, your response to sprots would have removed them. However I should point out that any surveys are limited - the nuances of questions such as the situation in Iraq are seldom offered as options. Given "black or white" choices we might be poles apart, but allow for shades of meaning and perhaps not so much.
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#33 Post by tubadave » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:29 am

Hmmmm.

Romney: 28
Tancredo: 26
McCain: 25
Hunter: 25
Thompson: 25
Giuliani: 21
Brownback: 19
Gilmore: 17
Huckabee: 15
Paul: 14
Richardson: 13
Biden: 13
Clinton: 8
Edwards: 8
Obama: 8
Gravel: 5
Dodd: 5
Kucinich: 5


The site does a pretty good job of picking which party I tend to favor, though it doesn't give a score for the None of the Above option I'll be wanting on my ballot next November.

Romney, huh? Wouldn't have guessed that, but I haven't really been paying attention to the Prez race this early, so I'm still not up to speed on all these people yet.

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#34 Post by Appa23 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:41 am

Earendel, you can abstain from answering if you wish, but I am curious about your thoughts on the "privitization" of social security. In that you work for the federal giovernment, and therefore have a better understanding how its "privitization" (TSP) system operates, I wondered if that colored your viewpoint in any way.

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#35 Post by mrkelley23 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:57 am

Sir_Galahad wrote:The highest score for me was Romney at 36. The highest Donkey score I got was Obama with 10. But, I am in the "less government in our lives entirely" camp so anything, especially Health Care, that involves more government intrusion into our lives I am against. I feel we need to get out of this nanny-state mentality we currently wallow in and become more self-sufficient, both nationally and in our private lives. IMO, where government in concerned, less is more.
So, you're good with legalized abortion, as long as it's not federally funded?

You're against the death penalty?

You're against enforced prayers in schools, even the current "moment of silence" euphemism that's springing up everywhere in the midwest?

Big supporter of gay rights, including marriage, right?

How about drugs? Self-sufficiency kind of requires legalization, right?

I don't have a problem with most of the above issues (legal narcotics scares me a little bit, given my job) but most people who agree with Romney do. My problem with current Republican Party is they want to stop government interference, except when it comes to what they define as "moral issues." I want them to get their noses out of my business.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled. -- Richard Feynman

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#36 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:58 am

I asked a short while ago why everybody on this Bored who's so opposed to single payer health insurance for everybody isn't taking on Medicare in the same breath .... er, posts. Still no answer, unless I missed it.

----
Socialism has failed everywhere it's been tried. We already have Medicare for awhile before it goes broke or breaks us. Why bring it up to complicate matters when it is an example of why we shouldn't get involved with the government running our healthcare system? Why do we still have the mindset that another overcomplicated,overblown, wasteful and unmanageable government program is going to fix things, when we can see from history that in the vast majority of cases, they only make things worse because of the unintended consequences of good intentions?

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#37 Post by SportsFan68 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:09 am

I just wrote a long reply to SirG, but it timed out on me before I could get back and finish.

I'll recreate it later if I have a chance.
-- In Iroquois society, leaders are encouraged to remember seven generations in the past and consider seven generations in the future when making decisions that affect the people.
-- America would be a better place if leaders would do more long-term thinking. -- Wilma Mankiller

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#38 Post by Sir_Galahad » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:11 am

mrkelley23 wrote:
So, you're good with legalized abortion, as long as it's not federally funded?
I am pro choice.
You're against the death penalty?
I favor the death penalty. In fact, I favor getting rid of all these endless appeals that drag capital cases on and on. In cases where the criminal is a multiple-time offender, no appeals period.
You're against enforced prayers in schools, even the current "moment of silence" euphemism that's springing up everywhere in the midwest?
I am pro choice. Not everyone believes in the same thing(s).
Big supporter of gay rights, including marriage, right?
Exactly the opposite.
How about drugs? Self-sufficiency kind of requires legalization, right?
I favor de-criminalization of small amounts of marijuana or other non hard-core drugs. Our jails are way too populated with those that were arrested for minimal amounts and our police force is far too occupied with arresting these types. I'm sure there are far worse troubles our men in blue/black/brown could be dealing with than arresting people with a nickel bag's worth of pot.
My problem with current Republican Party is they want to stop government interference, except when it comes to what they define as "moral issues." I want them to get their noses out of my business.
I want government out of my private life period. Let them make the laws that will enable our country to stay free and self-sufficient. They are going, IMO, in quite the opposite direction.

Anything else you want to know? I will be happy to tell you my position on.
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#39 Post by SportsFan68 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:23 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:I asked a short while ago why everybody on this Bored who's so opposed to single payer health insurance for everybody isn't taking on Medicare in the same breath .... er, posts. Still no answer, unless I missed it.

----
Socialism has failed everywhere it's been tried. We already have Medicare for awhile before it goes broke or breaks us. Why bring it up to complicate matters when it is an example of why we shouldn't get involved with the government running our healthcare system? Why do we still have the mindset that another overcomplicated,overblown, wasteful and unmanageable government program is going to fix things, when we can see from history that in the vast majority of cases, they only make things worse because of the unintended consequences of good intentions?
We've had Medicare since 1965, and it hasn't gone broke or broken us. I bring it up as an example of how to simplify matters with an effective system which has worked for 42 years. Most people don't think it's an example of why government shouldn't get involved with running our healthcare system, they think of it as a relatively uncomplicated, nonwasteful, and manageable system. I googled Medicare and "unintended consequences," and the only hits I came up on the first page were about the unintended consequences of Bush's prescription drug changes.

I'm with the Physicians for a National Health Program on this one.
-- In Iroquois society, leaders are encouraged to remember seven generations in the past and consider seven generations in the future when making decisions that affect the people.
-- America would be a better place if leaders would do more long-term thinking. -- Wilma Mankiller

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#40 Post by earendel » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:27 am

Appa23 wrote:Earendel, you can abstain from answering if you wish, but I am curious about your thoughts on the "privitization" of social security. In that you work for the federal giovernment, and therefore have a better understanding how its "privitization" (TSP) system operates, I wondered if that colored your viewpoint in any way.
My opinion regarding the privitization of Social Security is based not on my situation (which is good) but rather on the situations of so many others that I know. If there were some way to privitize Social Security without reducing the amount that goes into the trust (yeah, right) fund, I wouldn't mind so much. Yes, I know that contributions could be raised, or tax monies be put into the fund to make up for what would be withdrawn if younger workers were allowed to "manage their own retirement" but that's not a good solution.

Edit: I should point out that I'm working under the old CSRS system rather than the FERS system, in case that matters.

Not only that, but - and perhaps I'm reflecting my age here - young people seldom give much thought for the future, so asking them to plan their own retirement may be too much to expect. And so when they get old and don't have a nest egg, what happens then?
"Elen sila lumenn omentielvo...A star shines on the hour of our meeting."

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#41 Post by Sir_Galahad » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:31 am

SportsFan68 wrote: I'm with the Physicians for a National Health Program on this one.
So, then, Sprots, you're OK with the government dinging you another 5 or 10% or whatever it's going to take to help pay for the 40 million or so people that are currently without health care?
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#42 Post by TheCalvinator24 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:32 am

And so when they get old and don't have a nest egg, what happens then?
Why should we be on the hook for other's neglect of their own care?

"The Ant and the Grasshopper" still has many lessons to teach us.
It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. —Albus Dumbledore

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#43 Post by Sir_Galahad » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:35 am

earendel wrote: Not only that, but - and perhaps I'm reflecting my age here - young people seldom give much thought for the future, so asking them to plan their own retirement may be too much to expect. And so when they get old and don't have a nest egg, what happens then?
What I would favor, here, ear, is the government "forcing" you to set up your own retirement savings to fund your own retirement. The government will not have access to remove funds from your account nor any say in how it is invested. But, they can mandate the establishment of the fund so they won't be in that position when they retire.
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#44 Post by earendel » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:39 am

TheCalvinator24 wrote:
And so when they get old and don't have a nest egg, what happens then?
Why should we be on the hook for other's neglect of their own care?

"The Ant and the Grasshopper" still has many lessons to teach us.
Because that's what good people do. That's what Christian people do.
"Elen sila lumenn omentielvo...A star shines on the hour of our meeting."

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#45 Post by earendel » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:40 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:Socialism has failed everywhere it's been tried.
Really? Perhaps before I continue I should find out how you define "socialism" and how you define "failure" because it seems to me that many of the countries of the world that are doing quite well are "socialist".
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#46 Post by Bixby17 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:44 am

Bleh.

I was with MrK, I hated most of the choices on positions, particularly with what to do in Iraq and the immigration question. It seemed like there a number of positions far to the right of what I believe, and then some crazy lib position with very few positions in the middlish.

My scores, bleh:

Dodd 53, Gravel 50, Kucinich 48

Gilmore 7, Brownback 5, Tancredo 5

Basically, I guess that means that I hate all the choices all and need to move off to some deserted island.

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#47 Post by TheCalvinator24 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:46 am

earendel wrote:
TheCalvinator24 wrote:
And so when they get old and don't have a nest egg, what happens then?
Why should we be on the hook for other's neglect of their own care?

"The Ant and the Grasshopper" still has many lessons to teach us.
Because that's what good people do. That's what Christian people do.
Perhaps.

But even so or if, that does not equate to it becoming the duty of the secular government to implement a system fording people to contribute to a plan to do what those people "ought" to do.

The idea that the Government doing things because they are "good things to do" is a good thing is part of the problem with our current state of affairs.
It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. —Albus Dumbledore

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#48 Post by SportsFan68 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:10 pm

Sir_Galahad wrote:
SportsFan68 wrote: I'm with the Physicians for a National Health Program on this one.
So, then, Sprots, you're OK with the government dinging you another 5 or 10% or whatever it's going to take to help pay for the 40 million or so people that are currently without health care?
We could fund the entire program the first year on the duplication and wasted effort currently going into private plans purchased by employers. As for the rest, yes, I'd be happy to double my 1.45% Medicare amount or even an extra 3.55% to get to 5% -- that would still be far, far less than the $238 per month I'm paying now. And that's only my share, my employer picks up an addiitional (approximately) $400 a month; I'm sure the PTB would be thrilled at the savings. I know I would. And most of your 40 million are the working poor, who could handle that small of a percentage share but not $238 a month.
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-- America would be a better place if leaders would do more long-term thinking. -- Wilma Mankiller

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#49 Post by earendel » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:10 pm

TheCalvinator24 wrote:
earendel wrote:
TheCalvinator24 wrote: Why should we be on the hook for other's neglect of their own care?

"The Ant and the Grasshopper" still has many lessons to teach us.
Because that's what good people do. That's what Christian people do.
Perhaps.

But even so or if, that does not equate to it becoming the duty of the secular government to implement a system fording people to contribute to a plan to do what those people "ought" to do.
Ah, but are we not a "Christian nation"?
TheCalvinator24 wrote:The idea that the Government doing things because they are "good things to do" is a good thing is part of the problem with our current state of affairs.
One could make the same argument for a lot of different things that government does. The fact of the matter is that we are a society, not a bunch of individuals. What happens to one (or a few) affects all of us whether we want to admit it or not.
"Elen sila lumenn omentielvo...A star shines on the hour of our meeting."

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#50 Post by TheCalvinator24 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:16 pm

earendel wrote:
TheCalvinator24 wrote:
earendel wrote: Because that's what good people do. That's what Christian people do.
Perhaps.

But even so or if, that does not equate to it becoming the duty of the secular government to implement a system fording people to contribute to a plan to do what those people "ought" to do.
Ah, but are we not a "Christian nation"?
Could you be any more disingenuous with your question? I didn't think so.
earendel wrote:
TheCalvinator24 wrote:The idea that the Government doing things because they are "good things to do" is a good thing is part of the problem with our current state of affairs.
One could make the same argument for a lot of different things that government does. The fact of the matter is that we are a society, not a bunch of individuals. What happens to one (or a few) affects all of us whether we want to admit it or not.
Silly me. I thought we were a nation that was supposed to be governed by our Constitution, not by the current conception of what is "good for society."

And please spare me the "promote the general welfare" argument. First, it's not in the Body of the Constitution, and second, no Federal law should ever be enacted that is not explicitly authorized by the text within the Body of the Constitution.
It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. —Albus Dumbledore

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