Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Building

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Bob Juch
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Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Building

#1 Post by Bob Juch » Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:53 pm

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#2 Post by CarShark » Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:52 pm

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-north ... chers.html

https://reason.com/blog/2016/01/03/arme ... -o#comment

Apparently, they're upset that a federal court increased the sentences on a father and son who were illegally setting fires to manage plant life that accidentally spread to other federal land. The government charged them under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996, which carries a mandatory minimum of five years, but the judge disagreed. He sentenced them to three and thirteen months, plus damages. The Department of Justice didn't like that, so they appealed to the 9th Circuit court, who sided with them. So now they both have to go back to jail tomorrow, which I'm guessing this is mostly about. There have been no shots fired or reports of a standoff, so I think the "armed domestic terrorist" label is more a political tool than an accurate descriptor.

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#3 Post by Bob Juch » Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:58 pm

CarShark wrote:http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-north ... chers.html

https://reason.com/blog/2016/01/03/arme ... -o#comment

Apparently, they're upset that a federal court increased the sentences on a father and son who were illegally setting fires to manage plant life that accidentally spread to other federal land. The government charged them under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996, which carries a mandatory minimum of five years, but the judge disagreed. He sentenced them to three and thirteen months, plus damages. The Department of Justice didn't like that, so they appealed to the 9th Circuit court, who sided with them. So now they both have to go back to jail tomorrow, which I'm guessing this is mostly about. There have been no shots fired or reports of a standoff, so I think the "armed domestic terrorist" label is more a political tool than an accurate descriptor.
We'll see tomorrow.
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Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#4 Post by Bob78164 » Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:31 pm

CarShark wrote:http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-north ... chers.html

https://reason.com/blog/2016/01/03/arme ... -o#comment

Apparently, they're upset that a federal court increased the sentences on a father and son who were illegally setting fires to manage plant life that accidentally spread to other federal land. The government charged them under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996, which carries a mandatory minimum of five years, but the judge disagreed. He sentenced them to three and thirteen months, plus damages. The Department of Justice didn't like that, so they appealed to the 9th Circuit court, who sided with them. So now they both have to go back to jail tomorrow, which I'm guessing this is mostly about. There have been no shots fired or reports of a standoff, so I think the "armed domestic terrorist" label is more a political tool than an accurate descriptor.
Seems to me that this qualifies as armed resistance to the government. I wonder whether they acquired their weapons legally. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#5 Post by TheConfessor » Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:17 pm

Sounds to me like a militia that is not "well regulated."

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#6 Post by themanintheseersuckersuit » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:00 am

Mormons who don't trust the Federal government, I just can't understand it.
Suitguy is not bitter.

feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive

The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#7 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:49 am

Not terrorism or terrorists. As much as BJ would like it to be, it is not.
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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#8 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:26 am

BackInTex wrote:Not terrorism or terrorists. As much as BJ would like it to be, it is not.
Definition of terrorism: "the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes."

Please explain how this doesn't apply here.
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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#9 Post by themanintheseersuckersuit » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:23 am

Your definition plays into the government's hand as it is to broad. Under this definition former Attorney General Holder is a terrorist. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/09 ... tc-office/
Suitguy is not bitter.

feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive

The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#10 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:34 am

themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:Your definition plays into the government's hand as it is to broad. Under this definition former Attorney General Holder is a terrorist. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/09 ... tc-office/
SSS wrote:
Definition of terrorism: "the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes."

Therefore...
Police are terrorists.
U.S. Marines are terrorists.
Mr. Henry, my 5th grade PE teacher is a terrorist.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#11 Post by Bob Juch » Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:32 am

BackInTex wrote:
themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:Your definition plays into the government's hand as it is to broad. Under this definition former Attorney General Holder is a terrorist. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/09 ... tc-office/
SSS wrote:
Definition of terrorism: "the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes."

Therefore...
Police are terrorists.
U.S. Marines are terrorists.
Mr. Henry, my 5th grade PE teacher is a terrorist.
If these terrorists were black or Muslim you'd be singing a different tune.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
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Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#12 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:01 am

Bob Juch wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:Your definition plays into the government's hand as it is to broad. Under this definition former Attorney General Holder is a terrorist. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/09 ... tc-office/
SSS wrote:
Definition of terrorism: "the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes."

Therefore...
Police are terrorists.
U.S. Marines are terrorists.
Mr. Henry, my 5th grade PE teacher is a terrorist.
If these terrorists were black or Muslim you'd be singing a different tune.
No I wouldn't. They are not intimidating or attacking the populace. They are not terrorizing or attacking civilians. They are not trying to accomplish their goals through terror, just simple and open force.

I'm not saying I agree with their goal or tactics. Its just that they are not terrorists.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#13 Post by Bob Juch » Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:15 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Bob Juch wrote: If these terrorists were black or Muslim you'd be singing a different tune.
No I wouldn't. They are not intimidating or attacking the populace. They are not terrorizing or attacking civilians. They are not trying to accomplish their goals through terror, just simple and open force.

I'm not saying I agree with their goal or tactics. Its just that they are not terrorists.
The populace feels threatened.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)

Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#14 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:59 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Bob Juch wrote: If these terrorists were black or Muslim you'd be singing a different tune.
No I wouldn't. They are not intimidating or attacking the populace. They are not terrorizing or attacking civilians. They are not trying to accomplish their goals through terror, just simple and open force.

I'm not saying I agree with their goal or tactics. Its just that they are not terrorists.
The populace feels threatened.
What populace? The reporters? You? No one with any intelligence feels threatened by these folks. The haven't threatened any populace.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#15 Post by Bob78164 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:46 pm

BackInTex wrote:What populace? The reporters? You? No one with any intelligence feels threatened by these folks. The haven't threatened any populace.
Why have guns if you're not prepared to use them? --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#16 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:53 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:What populace? The reporters? You? No one with any intelligence feels threatened by these folks. The haven't threatened any populace.
Why have guns if you're not prepared to use them? --Bob
Are you calling Bob J a terrorist? He admits to having guns.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#17 Post by themanintheseersuckersuit » Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:45 pm

Eleanor Roosevelt was a terrorist?
Suitguy is not bitter.

feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive

The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#18 Post by silvercamaro » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:44 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:What populace? The reporters? You? No one with any intelligence feels threatened by these folks. The haven't threatened any populace.
Why have guns if you're not prepared to use them? --Bob
City boy! They are surrounded by a national wildlife refuge. The key word is "wildlife" -- bears, wildcats, poisonous snakes, etc. Some dangerous critters don't listen to reason or stern warnings.
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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#19 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:47 pm

Ah, c'mon. Quit trying to ruin a perfectly good narrative.
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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#20 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:10 pm

I think the proper classification is Civil Disobedience. This is a sit-in. An armed one. Not something I particularly side with, especially since the supposed beneficiaries are against it. Perhaps some of them will move on to become Attorney Generals.

Laughable some are calling it terrorism. Sad that some who are intelligent are doing so also just to support the "progressive" narrative of gun control.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#21 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:16 pm

Bill Ayers. Now that is a real terrorist. Strange those calling for gun control here, and calling the Oregon protest terrorism, think and support political agendas and candidates the same as Bill Ayers. Like minds and all.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#22 Post by franktangredi » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:41 pm

BackInTex wrote:I think the proper classification is Civil Disobedience. This is a sit-in. An armed one. Not something I particularly side with, especially since the supposed beneficiaries are against it. Perhaps some of them will move on to become Attorney Generals.

Laughable some are calling it terrorism. Sad that some who are intelligent are doing so also just to support the "progressive" narrative of gun control.
I agree that they aren't terrorists by any definition that leaves the word any specific meaning. If they commit a terrorist act, they will become terrorists.

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#23 Post by Bob78164 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:39 am

silvercamaro wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:What populace? The reporters? You? No one with any intelligence feels threatened by these folks. The haven't threatened any populace.
Why have guns if you're not prepared to use them? --Bob
City boy! They are surrounded by a national wildlife refuge. The key word is "wildlife" -- bears, wildcats, poisonous snakes, etc. Some dangerous critters don't listen to reason or stern warnings.
Really? Silly me. I thought the reason they brought guns was to be able to threaten armed resistance should authorities attempt to remove them. At least one of the locals (who otherwise appears to be sympathetic) certainly believes they are "threatening gun violence."

I've seen my share of sit-ins. I don't remember guns being any part of them. Not in possession of the participants, anyway. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#24 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:35 am

BackInTex wrote:Bill Ayers. Now that is a real terrorist. Strange those calling for gun control here, and calling the Oregon protest terrorism, think and support political agendas and candidates the same as Bill Ayers. Like minds and all.
In the 2012 Presidential election, Barack Obama received 51% of the vote. That's a lot of like minds to Bill Ayers under your way of thinking.
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Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Have Taken Over a Federal Buil

#25 Post by BackInTex » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:50 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
BackInTex wrote:Bill Ayers. Now that is a real terrorist. Strange those calling for gun control here, and calling the Oregon protest terrorism, think and support political agendas and candidates the same as Bill Ayers. Like minds and all.
In the 2012 Presidential election, Barack Obama received 51% of the vote. That's a lot of like minds to Bill Ayers under your way of thinking.
Yep, it is. Sad but true.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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