And so it begins.....

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Re: And so it begins.....

#101 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:20 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
You're clearly not listening. The father, as much a family member at the mother, wants this. The family has two choices. I, Spock, Flock, and all other sane people who actually care about the child rather than the agenda prefer what the father wants.
You're defining yourself as sane because you agree with the father's bigotry. By your reasoning, it's absolutely impossible for the choice to facilitate a transition to be sane. No transgender person could ever be accepted by that reasoning. That's bigotry, pure and simple.

Except for the father, though, whose propensity toward physical violence undercuts his claim toward interest in the child's welfare, the people who actually know the situation -- the mother, the child's guardian ad litem, the neutral judge, and the treating physician -- all agree with the child's wishes. So I'm glad that it looks like bigotry will lose this particular battle. --Bob
I don't think this has to do wi5h bigotry. Kids don't know their heads from their ass til they're, oh, 21 or so. Enabling major surgery and chem8cal intervention for something so truly life changing at 8 is abuse. Are you okay with your kid saying no to vaccinations at 8?
The child doesn't have to undergo such drastic measures.
How do you know what measures the child does and doesn't need? Do you have much experience with transgender children? Why do you think you know better than the child's mother, the guardian ad litem, the neutral judge, the treating physician, and the child herself (all of whom actually know this particular child, whereas I assume that you do not) what's best for this particular child? --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: And so it begins.....

#102 Post by Beebs52 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:59 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:You're defining yourself as sane because you agree with the father's bigotry. By your reasoning, it's absolutely impossible for the choice to facilitate a transition to be sane. No transgender person could ever be accepted by that reasoning. That's bigotry, pure and simple.

Except for the father, though, whose propensity toward physical violence undercuts his claim toward interest in the child's welfare, the people who actually know the situation -- the mother, the child's guardian ad litem, the neutral judge, and the treating physician -- all agree with the child's wishes. So I'm glad that it looks like bigotry will lose this particular battle. --Bob
I don't think this has to do wi5h bigotry. Kids don't know their heads from their ass til they're, oh, 21 or so. Enabling major surgery and chem8cal intervention for something so truly life changing at 8 is abuse. Are you okay with your kid saying no to vaccinations at 8?
The child doesn't have to undergo such drastic measures.
How do you know what measures the child does and doesn't need? Do you have much experience with transgender children? Why do you think you know better than the child's mother, the guardian ad litem, the neutral judge, the treating physician, and the child herself (all of whom actually know this particular child, whereas I assume that you do not) what's best for this particular child? --Bob
How do you know the reasonable standard of care, including medical and psychiatric, for these rare situations? Is your "science settled" because you say so? You didn't address my questions. I feel horrible for anyone suffering with this. 8 don't condone cutting on kids or shooting 5hem wi5h hormones when they aren't at any age of consent.
If that makes me a bigot it makes you a cavalier, nihilistic adherent of totally morphable right and wrong.
Well, then

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Re: And so it begins.....

#103 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:14 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
I don't think this has to do wi5h bigotry. Kids don't know their heads from their ass til they're, oh, 21 or so. Enabling major surgery and chem8cal intervention for something so truly life changing at 8 is abuse. Are you okay with your kid saying no to vaccinations at 8?
The child doesn't have to undergo such drastic measures.
How do you know what measures the child does and doesn't need? Do you have much experience with transgender children? Why do you think you know better than the child's mother, the guardian ad litem, the neutral judge, the treating physician, and the child herself (all of whom actually know this particular child, whereas I assume that you do not) what's best for this particular child? --Bob
How do you know the reasonable standard of care, including medical and psychiatric, for these rare situations? Is your "science settled" because you say so? You didn't address my questions. I feel horrible for anyone suffering with this. 8 don't condone cutting on kids or shooting 5hem wi5h hormones when they aren't at any age of consent.
If that makes me a bigot it makes you a cavalier, nihilistic adherent of totally morphable right and wrong.
So the answer is no, you don't have experience with transgender kids. You don't know this particular kid. You have no basis to believe that you know better than the kid's mother, guardian ad litem, the judge, and the treating physician what's right for this kid. And the only reason I feel bad for the kid is that it's pretty obvious her father won't accept her for who she is. Fortunately, at least one of her parents will.

The reasonable standard of care is none of my business. It's the business of the kid's mother, her guardian ad litem, the judge supervising the case, and the treating physician. They're all on the same page.

Your prejudice is clear from your assumption that she's suffering. She's not. She is who she is. She just requires protection, until she's grown old enough to handle it herself, from the likes of those who would reject her because they don't like or understand her gender identity.

Your prejudice is clear from your assumption that the mother lacks the strength to stand up to her child, merely because you disagree with the family's decision to facilitate the child's transition. It seems apparent that in fact the mother has the strength to stand up to an ex-husband who is willing to physically bully her.

And if my 8-year-old could persuade his mother, a guardian ad litem, a judge, and a treating physician that a vaccination was a risk (presumably because of an allergy, as a handful of kids do suffer from), then I would support that decision. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: And so it begins.....

#104 Post by Beebs52 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:23 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:How do you know what measures the child does and doesn't need? Do you have much experience with transgender children? Why do you think you know better than the child's mother, the guardian ad litem, the neutral judge, the treating physician, and the child herself (all of whom actually know this particular child, whereas I assume that you do not) what's best for this particular child? --Bob
How do you know the reasonable standard of care, including medical and psychiatric, for these rare situations? Is your "science settled" because you say so? You didn't address my questions. I feel horrible for anyone suffering with this. 8 don't condone cutting on kids or shooting 5hem wi5h hormones when they aren't at any age of consent.
If that makes me a bigot it makes you a cavalier, nihilistic adherent of totally morphable right and wrong.
So the answer is no, you don't have experience with transgender kids. You don't know this particular kid. You have no basis to believe that you know better than the kid's mother, guardian ad litem, the judge, and the treating physician what's right for this kid. And the only reason I feel bad for the kid is that it's pretty obvious her father won't accept her for who she is. Fortunately, at least one of her parents will.

The reasonable standard of care is none of my business. It's the business of the kid's mother, her guardian ad litem, the judge supervising the case, and the treating physician. They're all on the same page.

Your prejudice is clear from your assumption that she's suffering. She's not. She is who she is. She just requires protection, until she's grown old enough to handle it herself, from the likes of those who would reject her because they don't like or understand her gender identity.

Your prejudice is clear from your assumption that the mother lacks the strength to stand up to her child, merely because you disagree with the family's decision to facilitate the child's transition. It seems apparent that in fact the mother has the strength to stand up to an ex-husband who is willing to physically bully her.

And if my 8-year-old could persuade his mother, a guardian ad litem, a judge, and a treating physician that a vaccination was a risk (presumably because of an allergy, as a handful of kids do suffer from), then I would support that decision. --Bob
So you admit you don't know the reasonable standard of care for this situation. You're a lawyer.
It's a child. Not allergies.
This doesn't even warrant a bless your heart.
We're not talking about an adult.
Are you familiar with those who regret surgeries, etc?
Well, then

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Re: And so it begins.....

#105 Post by Beebs52 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:33 pm

Oh. You apparently do have a tremendous experience with transgender children and adults based on your weird deflection.
Here's what I think-you're on the mom's website and want to get involved in the case and make a name for your happy self beyond your boring regular law stuff.
Well, then

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Re: And so it begins.....

#106 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:38 pm

Beebs52 wrote:Oh. You apparently do have a tremendous experience with transgender children and adults based on your weird deflection.
Here's what I think-you're on the mom's website and want to get involved in the case and make a name for your happy self beyond your boring regular law stuff.
You'd be wrong about all of that. I'd never heard of this case until Spock posted the link this morning, I'm neither a Texas lawyer nor a lawyer in this field of law, literally all of my information from the case comes from the documents posted via Spock's link, I didn't (still don't) know that the mom has a Web site, much less where it is.

And yes, I have experience with gender fluid people so I know exactly how this sort of bigotry affects them, even when they grin and bear it. That's why there's no chance in hell I'll ever stand silent. More importantly, I'm a human being who understands that feelings are a lot more important than ideology. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: And so it begins.....

#107 Post by Beebs52 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:41 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:Oh. You apparently do have a tremendous experience with transgender children and adults based on your weird deflection.
Here's what I think-you're on the mom's website and want to get involved in the case and make a name for your happy self beyond your boring regular law stuff.
You'd be wrong about all of that. I'd never heard of this case until Spock posted the link this morning, I'm neither a Texas lawyer nor a lawyer in this field of law, literally all of my information from the case comes from the documents posted via Spock's link, I didn't (still don't) know that the mom has a Web site, much less where it is.

And yes, I have experience with gender fluid people so I know exactly how this sort of bigotry affects them, even when they grin and bear it. That's why there's no chance in hell I'll ever stand silent. More importantly, I'm a human being who understands that feelings are a lot more important than ideology. --Bob
You are exquisitely sanctimonious. Your assumptions are erroneous, and it is why I question anything you advocate.
Well, then

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Re: And so it begins.....

#108 Post by Spock » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:42 pm

I was thinking about my extensive experience with castration and hormones. I have castrated thousands of animals (both cattle and hogs) mainly for the reason that we want to fatten them up as fast as possible.

It is also common practice to treat castrated male cattle (steers) with female hormones. Once again, this helps fatten them up as fast as possible.

Obviously, the fad of castrating young boys and treating them with female hormones is too new for the long-term effects to manifest themselves, but, in addition to everything else, we are creating a perfect storm for these poor boys to have tremendous weight issues for the rest of their lives.

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Re: And so it begins.....

#109 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:51 pm

Spock wrote:I was thinking about my extensive experience with castration and hormones. I have castrated thousands of animals (both cattle and hogs) mainly for the reason that we want to fatten them up as fast as possible.

It is also common practice to treat castrated male cattle (steers) with female hormones. Once again, this helps fatten them up as fast as possible.

Obviously, the fad of castrating young boys and treating them with female hormones is too new for the long-term effects to manifest themselves, but, in addition to everything else, we are creating a perfect storm for these poor boys to have tremendous weight issues for the rest of their lives.
So let me get this straight. Based on your extensive experience with cattle and hogs, you know better than the girl's (she's not a boy) mother, her guardian ad litem, the judge, and the treating physician what's good for her. Got it.

I have at least as much confidence in your judgment here as I have in your prediction of the effect of Donny's tariffs, which experts uniformly predicted would substantially lower soybean prices here and would hurt American markets but you thought would prove to be no big deal. By the way, you were going to provide updates of soybean futures to prove your point. Whatever happened to that data? --Bob
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Re: And so it begins.....

#110 Post by tlynn78 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:09 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Spock wrote:I was thinking about my extensive experience with castration and hormones. I have castrated thousands of animals (both cattle and hogs) mainly for the reason that we want to fatten them up as fast as possible.

It is also common practice to treat castrated male cattle (steers) with female hormones. Once again, this helps fatten them up as fast as possible.

Obviously, the fad of castrating young boys and treating them with female hormones is too new for the long-term effects to manifest themselves, but, in addition to everything else, we are creating a perfect storm for these poor boys to have tremendous weight issues for the rest of their lives.
So let me get this straight. Based on your extensive experience with cattle and hogs, you know better than the girl's (she's not a boy) mother, her guardian ad litem, the judge, and the treating physician what's good for her. Got it.

I have at least as much confidence in your judgment here as I have in your prediction of the effect of Donny's tariffs, which experts uniformly predicted would substantially lower soybean prices here and would hurt American markets but you thought would prove to be no big deal. By the way, you were going to provide updates of soybean futures to prove your point. Whatever happened to that data? --Bob
If the child has a Y chromosome, it's a male. No amount of surgery or female hormones will alter that FACT. The stories of abject regret following sex reassignment surgery on adults are heart-breaking. To make such a virtually irreversible decision for such a young child is reprehensible.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#111 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:46 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Spock wrote:I was thinking about my extensive experience with castration and hormones. I have castrated thousands of animals (both cattle and hogs) mainly for the reason that we want to fatten them up as fast as possible.

It is also common practice to treat castrated male cattle (steers) with female hormones. Once again, this helps fatten them up as fast as possible.

Obviously, the fad of castrating young boys and treating them with female hormones is too new for the long-term effects to manifest themselves, but, in addition to everything else, we are creating a perfect storm for these poor boys to have tremendous weight issues for the rest of their lives.
So let me get this straight. Based on your extensive experience with cattle and hogs, you know better than the girl's (she's not a boy) mother, her guardian ad litem, the judge, and the treating physician what's good for her. Got it.

I have at least as much confidence in your judgment here as I have in your prediction of the effect of Donny's tariffs, which experts uniformly predicted would substantially lower soybean prices here and would hurt American markets but you thought would prove to be no big deal. By the way, you were going to provide updates of soybean futures to prove your point. Whatever happened to that data? --Bob
If the child has a Y chromosome, it's a male. No amount of surgery or female hormones will alter that FACT. The stories of abject regret following sex reassignment surgery on adults are heart-breaking. To make such a virtually irreversible decision for such a young child is reprehensible.
And if a child who identifies as female is forced to live as male, she will be miserable. All too often to the point of suicide. And no amount of bigotry masquerading as piety will alter that FACT.

You continue to treat this as a casual decision. It's not. Not even close. Professionals get involved to be sure this is, in fact, a genuine case of gender dysphoria.

I'll continue to ask until I get an answer -- how many people do you personally know who've actually gone through the process? And how many do you know who were prevented from going through the process for years? --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: And so it begins.....

#112 Post by BackInTex » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:17 am

I'll just leave this here.

Hopkins Study: Half Of Schizophrenia Cases Misdiagnosed, Most Just Have Anxiety
A significant number of people declared schizophrenic by their doctors may be misdiagnosed.
Because we’ve shined a spotlight in recent years on emerging and early signs of psychosis, diagnosis of schizophrenia is like a new fad,
And diagnosis and treatment in favor of gender dysphoria is a new fad.
Diagnostic errors can be devastating for people, particularly the wrong diagnosis of a mental disorder.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#113 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:31 am

BackInTex wrote:I'll just leave this here.

Hopkins Study: Half Of Schizophrenia Cases Misdiagnosed, Most Just Have Anxiety
A significant number of people declared schizophrenic by their doctors may be misdiagnosed.
Because we’ve shined a spotlight in recent years on emerging and early signs of psychosis, diagnosis of schizophrenia is like a new fad,
And diagnosis and treatment in favor of gender dysphoria is a new fad.
Diagnostic errors can be devastating for people, particularly the wrong diagnosis of a mental disorder.
If you'll read the article, it notes that the diagnoses in question were not made by schizophrenic specialists. I don't know what the qualifications of the doctors who have diagnosed this child are. Presumably the judge does.

What's really relevant here is that the father is not pursuing his legal remedies (he claims he doesn't have the money to do so) but rather mounting a massive PR campaign among the compliant right wing noise machine. One would think that all the people making noise on the father's behalf could chip in a buck or two to help pay for the appeals.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#114 Post by BackInTex » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:36 am

I will also leave this here (because I am called a hateful bigot for referring to gender dysphoria as a mental illness).

What Is Gender Dysphoria?
Gender dysphoria is not the same as gender nonconformity, ..... Gender nonconformity is not a mental disorder.
Therefore Gender dysphoria IS a mental disorder.

And the treatment? With drugs (hormones) and surgery. If someone is not ill they do not require drugs or surgery. Therefore their disorder is considered an illness.

Am I a bigot? Well, based on the following definition, for this subject matter, I am. So is the person calling me a bigot. We strongly disagree with each other.
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
However, this part does not apply
especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
There is no hatred in the way I regard and treat others. Disagreeing with someone is not hatred (despite what the bored's big bad lawyer says). Believing someone's behavior is wrong is not hatred. I don't hate people who I believe to be ill.

Acting on someone's beliefs to their detriment and harm would be hatred (e.g. the actions taken against Jack Phillips is hatred). I've not done that. I won't. I may however act on others actions they take because of their beliefs. There is a difference there. I may have animus towards someone based on what they do because of their beliefs or situations, but not because of their beliefs or situations, when I believe their actions are detrimental to me, my family, this country, or our society.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#115 Post by Spock » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:19 am

I skimmed through a few studies on human castration last night. Chinese Eunuchs and so forth.

Muscle loss and fat gain come up prominently, as do bone structure and density issues.

Obviously, the old Chinese eunuchs and others like them didn't have the added problem of being treated with female hormones. It takes an enlightened age like ours to come up with that little twist.

Setting aside all gender and reproductive issues, physically, these poor young boys (below the age of consent) that are victims of the castration fad, are having the benefits of being male taken away from them and the negatives of the female body forced upon them, without any of the benefits of being female.

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Re: And so it begins.....

#116 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:33 am

BackInTex wrote:I will also leave this here (because I am called a hateful bigot for referring to gender dysphoria as a mental illness).

What Is Gender Dysphoria?
Gender dysphoria is not the same as gender nonconformity, ..... Gender nonconformity is not a mental disorder.
Therefore Gender dysphoria IS a mental disorder.

And the treatment? With drugs (hormones) and surgery. If someone is not ill they do not require drugs or surgery. Therefore their disorder is considered an illness.

Am I a bigot? Well, based on the following definition, for this subject matter, I am. So is the person calling me a bigot. We strongly disagree with each other.
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
However, this part does not apply
especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
There is no hatred in the way I regard and treat others. Disagreeing with someone is not hatred (despite what the bored's big bad lawyer says). Believing someone's behavior is wrong is not hatred. I don't hate people who I believe to be ill.

Acting on someone's beliefs to their detriment and harm would be hatred (e.g. the actions taken against Jack Phillips is hatred). I've not done that. I won't. I may however act on others actions they take because of their beliefs. There is a difference there. I may have animus towards someone based on what they do because of their beliefs or situations, but not because of their beliefs or situations, when I believe their actions are detrimental to me, my family, this country, or our society.
What you forget is that the liberal left in this country believe they have control of our language. And the Mass Media back them up, as they are mostly liberal left themselves. It is the left which has managed to merge legal and illegal immigrants into one category for most of our society. The previously accepted definitions of any word or phrase are not relevant anymore. The meaning of anything is what they say it is at the present moment. "My Truth" is an expression they like to use.
So you are hateful not according to any pre-defined definition, but because they say you are.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#117 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:09 am

Spock wrote: and the negatives of the female body forced upon them, without any of the benefits of being female.
Well, I would think that the greatest "benefit" of being female is feeling comfortable in their own body and with their own sexuality.

You might want to look up actual images of transgendered women (and men for that matter). There are undoubtedly some that have weight problems, just as a lot of other women and men have problems. But they don't all resemble drag queens and they don't look like Chinese eunuchs.

Here's a list of transgendered actors/actresses, many of them with pictures. Judge for yourself how many of them have problems with excess body fat.

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls072599514/
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Re: And so it begins.....

#118 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:10 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:What you forget is that the liberal left in this country believe they have control of our language.
No, what the right believes is that they have control over morality and especially sexual morality, based on their interpretation of the Bible.
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Re: And so it begins.....

#119 Post by Beebs52 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:20 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:What you forget is that the liberal left in this country believe they have control of our language.
No, what the right believes is that they have control over morality and especially sexual morality, based on their interpretation of the Bible.
n morality with respect to sexual relations. Synonyms: chastity, virtue Types: honor, honour, pureness, purity. a woman's virtue or chastity. Type of: morality. concern with the distinction between good and evil or right and wrong; right or good conduct.

Has nothing to do with sexual morality.
Well, then

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Re: And so it begins.....

#120 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:30 am

BackInTex wrote:I will also leave this here (because I am called a hateful bigot for referring to gender dysphoria as a mental illness).

What Is Gender Dysphoria?
Gender dysphoria is not the same as gender nonconformity, ..... Gender nonconformity is not a mental disorder.
Therefore Gender dysphoria IS a mental disorder.

And the treatment? With drugs (hormones) and surgery. If someone is not ill they do not require drugs or surgery. Therefore their disorder is considered an illness.

Am I a bigot? Well, based on the following definition, for this subject matter, I am. So is the person calling me a bigot. We strongly disagree with each other.
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
However, this part does not apply
especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
There is no hatred in the way I regard and treat others. Disagreeing with someone is not hatred (despite what the bored's big bad lawyer says). Believing someone's behavior is wrong is not hatred. I don't hate people who I believe to be ill.

Acting on someone's beliefs to their detriment and harm would be hatred (e.g. the actions taken against Jack Phillips is hatred). I've not done that. I won't. I may however act on others actions they take because of their beliefs. There is a difference there. I may have animus towards someone based on what they do because of their beliefs or situations, but not because of their beliefs or situations, when I believe their actions are detrimental to me, my family, this country, or our society.
Your denials of bigotry might be a little more persuasive but for your utter refusal to refer to transgender people by their proper pronouns. You insist on referring to girls as "he" if they are transgender. That shows a refusal to accept the reality that these people are female, and a willingness to impose your own bigotry on them whether they like it or not.

It's like refusing to acknowledge a couple's marital status because you have religious objections to their marriage. Except this is worse because it's aimed at kids.

Little wonder that the mother sought an injunction to prevent the father from outing their daughter as transgender to her classmates and their parents. No kid that young should have to face such bigotry. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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tlynn78
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Re: And so it begins.....

#121 Post by tlynn78 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:07 am

Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:I will also leave this here (because I am called a hateful bigot for referring to gender dysphoria as a mental illness).

What Is Gender Dysphoria?
Gender dysphoria is not the same as gender nonconformity, ..... Gender nonconformity is not a mental disorder.
Therefore Gender dysphoria IS a mental disorder.

And the treatment? With drugs (hormones) and surgery. If someone is not ill they do not require drugs or surgery. Therefore their disorder is considered an illness.

Am I a bigot? Well, based on the following definition, for this subject matter, I am. So is the person calling me a bigot. We strongly disagree with each other.
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
However, this part does not apply
especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
There is no hatred in the way I regard and treat others. Disagreeing with someone is not hatred (despite what the bored's big bad lawyer says). Believing someone's behavior is wrong is not hatred. I don't hate people who I believe to be ill.

Acting on someone's beliefs to their detriment and harm would be hatred (e.g. the actions taken against Jack Phillips is hatred). I've not done that. I won't. I may however act on others actions they take because of their beliefs. There is a difference there. I may have animus towards someone based on what they do because of their beliefs or situations, but not because of their beliefs or situations, when I believe their actions are detrimental to me, my family, this country, or our society.
Your denials of bigotry might be a little more persuasive but for your utter refusal to refer to transgender people by their proper pronouns. You insist on referring to girls as "he" if they are transgender. That shows a refusal to accept the reality that these people are female, and a willingness to impose your own bigotry on them whether they like it or not.

It's like refusing to acknowledge a couple's marital status because you have religious objections to their marriage. Except this is worse because it's aimed at kids.

Little wonder that the mother sought an injunction to prevent the father from outing their daughter as transgender to her classmates and their parents. No kid that young should have to face such bigotry. --Bob

The reality is living their lives as the opposite gender does not magically make them the opposite gender.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

Spock
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Re: And so it begins.....

#122 Post by Spock » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:20 am

tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:I will also leave this here (because I am called a hateful bigot for referring to gender dysphoria as a mental illness).

What Is Gender Dysphoria?



Therefore Gender dysphoria IS a mental disorder.

And the treatment? With drugs (hormones) and surgery. If someone is not ill they do not require drugs or surgery. Therefore their disorder is considered an illness.

Am I a bigot? Well, based on the following definition, for this subject matter, I am. So is the person calling me a bigot. We strongly disagree with each other.



However, this part does not apply



There is no hatred in the way I regard and treat others. Disagreeing with someone is not hatred (despite what the bored's big bad lawyer says). Believing someone's behavior is wrong is not hatred. I don't hate people who I believe to be ill.

Acting on someone's beliefs to their detriment and harm would be hatred (e.g. the actions taken against Jack Phillips is hatred). I've not done that. I won't. I may however act on others actions they take because of their beliefs. There is a difference there. I may have animus towards someone based on what they do because of their beliefs or situations, but not because of their beliefs or situations, when I believe their actions are detrimental to me, my family, this country, or our society.
Your denials of bigotry might be a little more persuasive but for your utter refusal to refer to transgender people by their proper pronouns. You insist on referring to girls as "he" if they are transgender. That shows a refusal to accept the reality that these people are female, and a willingness to impose your own bigotry on them whether they like it or not.

It's like refusing to acknowledge a couple's marital status because you have religious objections to their marriage. Except this is worse because it's aimed at kids.

Little wonder that the mother sought an injunction to prevent the father from outing their daughter as transgender to her classmates and their parents. No kid that young should have to face such bigotry. --Bob
.

The reality is living their lives as the opposite gender does not magically make them the opposite gender.
Also, obviously, since these are kids, below the age of consent,-they are not making a considered choice to live as the opposite gender.

Not much surprises me anymore, but I absolutely can not believe that we are castrating little boys and calling it good.

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flockofseagulls104
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Re: And so it begins.....

#123 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:35 am

Can anyone deny that there may be parents who feel they will gain some kind of prestige and attention to themselves by showing themselves as so progressive to be raising a transgender child? An offshoot of Munchhausen syndrome?
bob-tel especially... Can you even consider that?
I cannot even fathom doing any kind of chemical or surgical procedure on any child. They have no idea what sexuality is. Any kind of radical thing like that should not even be considered until the person at least reaches puberty, and most logically the age of consent.
As per the 'bullying' aspect, that is an issue for the culture, not for the law.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

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Beebs52
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Re: And so it begins.....

#124 Post by Beebs52 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:40 am

Well, then

Spock
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Re: And so it begins.....

#125 Post by Spock » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:46 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:Can anyone deny that there may be parents who feel they will gain some kind of prestige and attention to themselves by showing themselves as so progressive to be raising a transgender child? An offshoot of Munchhausen syndrome?
bob-tel especially... Can you even consider that?
No, he can't consider that. Nor can he consider that there are ADULTS who regret their sex change surgery.

It seems like a transgender child is the latest liberal fashion accessory.

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