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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:55 am 
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Estonut wrote:
Estonut wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
I'm inclined to believe the boy, his parents, and the doctor who implemented the decision unless there's a damn good reason not to. And I doubt BiT has any more information about the specifics of this case than you or I do. Based on his explanation here, I'm pretty sure that's how he refers to all transgendered kids. That's not okay and it's important to say so.
Isn't it important to gather information first? You have previously claimed that you do so. Do you go into court with "I'm inclined to believe" or "I doubt?" Was there even a doctor involved in this particular case? There is a lot of information missing here. You didn't answer my questions, either.

• Is it OK for someone to refer to a transgender boy as a "gender confused girl [who] wants to be a boy" if it happens to be true?

• Do you believe that this has never been true?
You never answered these questions, either, Bob.

Get used to it. He demands factual answers from everyone, but never answers questions with anything but his opinion, backed up with links to other people's opinions. But he is very adamant about his opinions.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:16 am 
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Estonut wrote:
Estonut wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
I'm inclined to believe the boy, his parents, and the doctor who implemented the decision unless there's a damn good reason not to. And I doubt BiT has any more information about the specifics of this case than you or I do. Based on his explanation here, I'm pretty sure that's how he refers to all transgendered kids. That's not okay and it's important to say so.
Isn't it important to gather information first? You have previously claimed that you do so. Do you go into court with "I'm inclined to believe" or "I doubt?" Was there even a doctor involved in this particular case? There is a lot of information missing here. You didn't answer my questions, either.

• Is it OK for someone to refer to a transgender boy as a "gender confused girl [who] wants to be a boy" if it happens to be true?

• Do you believe that this has never been true?
You never answered these questions, either, Bob.
We're talking about a minor. Accordingly, the hormone injections required both a doctor's prescription and parental consent. I believe the boy, the doctor, and the parents. If BiT thinks they're all wrong, and he has the right to disregard the boy's identity, he's got the burden of proof.

Moreover, it was utterly clear from BiT's defense of his phrasing (which was obviously provocative in the first place) that he insists on referring to transgender people by their birth gender no matter what. So I think you're making specious excuses for him that don't deserve to be taken seriously, and really aren't worth much of my time to deal with. --Bob

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:12 am 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Estonut wrote:
Estonut wrote:
Isn't it important to gather information first? You have previously claimed that you do so. Do you go into court with "I'm inclined to believe" or "I doubt?" Was there even a doctor involved in this particular case? There is a lot of information missing here. You didn't answer my questions, either.

• Is it OK for someone to refer to a transgender boy as a "gender confused girl [who] wants to be a boy" if it happens to be true?

• Do you believe that this has never been true?
You never answered these questions, either, Bob.
We're talking about a minor. Accordingly, the hormone injections required both a doctor's prescription and parental consent. I believe the boy, the doctor, and the parents. If BiT thinks they're all wrong, and he has the right to disregard the boy's identity, he's got the burden of proof.

Moreover, it was utterly clear from BiT's defense of his phrasing (which was obviously provocative in the first place) that he insists on referring to transgender people by their birth gender no matter what. So I think you're making specious excuses for him that don't deserve to be taken seriously, and really aren't worth much of my time to deal with.
Again, you failed to answer 2 straightforward questions. I answered yours.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:17 am 
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Bob78164 wrote:
We're talking about a minor. Accordingly, the hormone injections required both a doctor's prescription and parental consent. I believe the boy, the doctor, and the parents. If BiT thinks they're all wrong, and he has the right to disregard the boy's identity, he's got the burden of proof.


A doctor's consent? You act like doctors, without exception, are perfect, moral, and all knowing. I can find a doctor that will:
* Kill a baby in a womb, regardless of reason or stage of pregnancy
* Prescribe opioids even though they are not medically necessary
* Prescribe medications to allow a person to voluntarily end their life.

I can prove the girl's gender. Her identity is a mental state. She may think she's Pocahontas or Hitler. I can't prove that. I can prove she isn't Pocahontas or Hitler. You would probably agree with me on that. Anyway, what she thinks she is is not relevant to the situation (athletic competition).

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:05 am 
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BackInTex wrote:
Anyway, what she thinks she is is not relevant to the situation (athletic competition).


What she thinks isn't relevant, I would agree. It's what the governing body for that sport thinks. And they think she should compete. At the world championship level, they already have standards about hormone levels in place, and while it's no surprise that high school athletic associations are behind the times in this regard, eventually they will adopt standards, the same as they are adopting standards about steroid and other drug use.

You're not going to see a flood of teenage boys undergoing hormone treatment so they can compete in girls' athletic events.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:32 am 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
You're not going to see a flood of teenage boys undergoing hormone treatment so they can compete in girls' athletic events.


Probably will see more biological males competing as women than we will see mass school shooters.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:39 am 
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BackInTex wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
You're not going to see a flood of teenage boys undergoing hormone treatment so they can compete in girls' athletic events.

Probably will see more biological males competing as women than we will see mass school shooters.

I certainly hope so!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:20 am 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Anyway, what she thinks she is is not relevant to the situation (athletic competition).


What she thinks isn't relevant . . . .
You bought into what BiT is doing. This is a transgender boy, forced to compete as a girl. --Bob

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:40 am 
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Bob78164 wrote:
This is a transgender boy, forced to compete as a girl. --Bob


No one forced her to compete. She chose to "compete" with the unfair government sanctioned advantage of doctor prescribed steroids.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:46 am 
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BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
This is a transgender boy, forced to compete as a girl. --Bob


No one forced her to compete. She chose to "compete" with the unfair government sanctioned advantage of doctor prescribed steroids.
BiT, I don't care about the high-school athletics aspect of this discussion (although the obvious solution here is to let him compete as a boy, just like all the other boys get to). What I do care about is your bigoted refusal to refer to him as a boy. --Bob

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:54 am 
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My opinion, FWIW is that there are two different things that are being considered here:

SEX. A person's sex is determined at birth. It is determined by their chromosomes. If a person has XY, they are male, XX they are female. With some rare exceptions (Klinefelter syndrome), that is their sex.
GENDER. The person's psychological sex. I will not get into the debate whether it is innate or acquired. I don't care, and I have no problem with it. The person can act on it with medical procedures or not. It is up to them, but their biological sex remains the same, as I understand it.

I do disagree with the rulings of the controlling sports authorities. I believe that people should only be able to participate in sports based on their SEX, not their GENDER. Why it is not that way is because of political correctness, which is unfair to those whose sex and gender are the same. But apparently, it is not up to a vote.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:32 am 
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BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
This is a transgender boy, forced to compete as a girl. --Bob


No one forced her to compete. She chose to "compete" with the unfair government sanctioned advantage of doctor prescribed steroids.

Steroids or hormones?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Bob Juch wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
This is a transgender boy, forced to compete as a girl. --Bob


No one forced her to compete. She chose to "compete" with the unfair government sanctioned advantage of doctor prescribed steroids.

Steroids or hormones?


Careful, you're gonna pull a stupid muscle.

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