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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:11 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
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And you know deep in your heart that the main reason Republicans want these types of "reform" of the voting process is to keep minorities from registering and voting.


I know in my heart that is bullshit.


Does your heart also tell you to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:17 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
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If it is shown this guy Cetin voted illegally, will you acknowledge there is a problem? Not that voter ID is the big cure all, but that we need to get some kind of control over the process?
No one denies that there are occasional incidents of voter fraud. But Voter ID does nothing to address what little voter fraud actually occurs, while turnout figures alone demonstrate that it quite clearly prevents thousands upon thousands of legitimate voters from voting.

As but one example, if New York were to adopt a Voter ID law, my great aunt most likely could not vote for the same reason she can't get a passport -- she can provide neither documentary evidence nor a witness to prove that she was born in this country in 1910.

Then there are all the people (think rural Texas), often people who don't own cars, who are hours away from the nearest office where they can get the necessary documentation. And that's if they have all their ducks in a row in the first instance.

And that's leaving aside the finding of the Fourth Circuit (traditionally one of the more conservative Circuit Courts in the country) that North Carolina targeted black voters with almost surgical precision, and the finding of the Fifth Circuit (neck and neck with the Fourth for the title of most conservative) that there was sufficient evidence in the record to support a similar finding, if the trial judge chooses to make such a finding on remand.

For once I agree with Bob Juch. If people had the same attitude toward gun violence that you're expressing here, I'd be a much happier camper. --Bob


You need to watch yourself agreeing with BJ. He never quite thinks things through. YES Bob, I, and every other sane person, acknowledge there's a problem with gun violence. But I also believe the remedies you want to implement are unconstitutional, destructive of the liberties of law-abiding people, and would do nothing to reduce gun violence, and probably increase the number of fatalities that result from gun violence. The guns are not the problem.

You know deep in your heart that the main reason democrats don't want voter ID or any other reform of the voting process is that they want to increase their voting base. The only type of voting reform they push makes it easier for fraud to happen, like mail voting and motor-voter. This murderer who DID (Mainstream media outlet KING-5 news is reporting it as a fact, so that should be enough for you) vote 3 times illegally shows there is a problem and there is no effort to enforce the laws that exist.

I don't think you know what remedies I want to implement.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:28 am 
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Bob Juch wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
No one denies that there are occasional incidents of voter fraud. But Voter ID does nothing to address what little voter fraud actually occurs, while turnout figures alone demonstrate that it quite clearly prevents thousands upon thousands of legitimate voters from voting.

As but one example, if New York were to adopt a Voter ID law, my great aunt most likely could not vote for the same reason she can't get a passport -- she can provide neither documentary evidence nor a witness to prove that she was born in this country in 1910.

Then there are all the people (think rural Texas), often people who don't own cars, who are hours away from the nearest office where they can get the necessary documentation. And that's if they have all their ducks in a row in the first instance.

And that's leaving aside the finding of the Fourth Circuit (traditionally one of the more conservative Circuit Courts in the country) that North Carolina targeted black voters with almost surgical precision, and the finding of the Fifth Circuit (neck and neck with the Fourth for the title of most conservative) that there was sufficient evidence in the record to support a similar finding, if the trial judge chooses to make such a finding on remand.

For once I agree with Bob Juch. If people had the same attitude toward gun violence that you're expressing here, I'd be a much happier camper. --Bob


You need to watch yourself agreeing with BJ. He never quite thinks things through. YES Bob, I, and every other sane person, acknowledge there's a problem with gun violence. But I also believe the remedies you want to implement are unconstitutional, destructive of the liberties of law-abiding people, and would do nothing to reduce gun violence, and probably increase the number of fatalities that result from gun violence. The guns are not the problem.

You know deep in your heart that the main reason democrats don't want voter ID or any other reform of the voting process is that they want to increase their voting base. The only type of voting reform they push makes it easier for fraud to happen, like mail voting and motor-voter. This murderer who DID (Mainstream media outlet KING-5 news is reporting it as a fact, so that should be enough for you) vote 3 times illegally shows there is a problem and there is no effort to enforce the laws that exist.

I don't think you know what remedies I want to implement.


I was addressing Bob78164.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:42 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:

You need to watch yourself agreeing with BJ. He never quite thinks things through. YES Bob, I, and every other sane person, acknowledge there's a problem with gun violence. But I also believe the remedies you want to implement are unconstitutional, destructive of the liberties of law-abiding people, and would do nothing to reduce gun violence, and probably increase the number of fatalities that result from gun violence. The guns are not the problem.

You know deep in your heart that the main reason democrats don't want voter ID or any other reform of the voting process is that they want to increase their voting base. The only type of voting reform they push makes it easier for fraud to happen, like mail voting and motor-voter. This murderer who DID (Mainstream media outlet KING-5 news is reporting it as a fact, so that should be enough for you) vote 3 times illegally shows there is a problem and there is no effort to enforce the laws that exist.

I don't think you know what remedies I want to implement.


I was addressing Bob78164.

Yes, but you were talking about me.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:27 am 
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Bob Juch wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
I don't think you know what remedies I want to implement.


I was addressing Bob78164.

Yes, but you were talking about me.

This thread is about vote fraud. You decided to change it to gun control by using a not very well thought out knee jerk analogy. My question was addressed to Bob numbers, not you.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:36 am 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Quote:
And you know deep in your heart that the main reason Republicans want these types of "reform" of the voting process is to keep minorities from registering and voting.


I know in my heart that is bullshit.


Does your heart also tell you to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy?


The main reason republicans (I will use this group as a reference, since you tend to think of people as groups, not individuals) want vote reform is to ensure that only living, qualified citizens get to vote, and that any living, qualified citizen only gets to vote once. I would think most fair minded people would agree that all living and qualified American Citizens that care to vote in any election should be able to vote once in that election. The group that is opposing any and every effort to perform any verification of who gets to vote seems to be the democrat party. And it seems to me they use all their main tools to prevent any attempt to do so, and their most effective tool is to accuse people of being racist.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:41 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:

I know in my heart that is bullshit.


Does your heart also tell you to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy?


The main reason republicans (I will use this group as a reference, since you tend to think of people as groups, not individuals) want vote reform is to ensure that only living, qualified citizens get to vote, and that any living, qualified citizen only gets to vote once. I would think most fair minded people would agree that all living and qualified American Citizens that care to vote in any election should be able to vote once in that election. The group that is opposing any and every effort to perform any verification of who gets to vote seems to be the democrat party. And it seems to me they use all their main tools to prevent any attempt to do so, and their most effective tool is to accuse people of being racist.
The actions taken by the North Carolina Legislature belie that rationale. To take the most obvious example, if that's all they cared about, why would they request the racial breakdown of various methods of voting? And once they had that information, why would they target the methods used by black voters with "almost surgical precision"? But that's exactly what the Fourth Circuit said they did.

Until you come to grips with the findings of fact in the Court's opinion, you're making an evidence-free argument. --Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:09 am 
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Turns out Cetin was a naturalized US citizen and entitled to vote.

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UPDATE: KING 5 learned Thursday that Arcan Cetin, the 20-year-old who killed five people at Cascade Mall on Sept. 23, is in fact a U.S. citizen.

For days after the shooting, Cetin was described by local and federal law enforcement as being a permanent U.S. resident. He immigrated to the U.S. from Turkey when he was a child, after his mother married an American citizen.


http://www.king5.com/news/local/investi ... /327490798

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:26 am 
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SSS>>>And you know deep in your heart that the main reason Republicans want these types of "reform" of the voting process is to keep minorities from registering and voting.<<<

Two can play at this game. You know deep in your heart that the reason the Left wants mass immigration from the 3rd World is that those immigrants are, essentially, a 100% voting block for the Democrats.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:08 am 
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themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:
Turns out Cetin was a naturalized US citizen and entitled to vote.

Quote:
UPDATE: KING 5 learned Thursday that Arcan Cetin, the 20-year-old who killed five people at Cascade Mall on Sept. 23, is in fact a U.S. citizen.

For days after the shooting, Cetin was described by local and federal law enforcement as being a permanent U.S. resident. He immigrated to the U.S. from Turkey when he was a child, after his mother married an American citizen.


http://www.king5.com/news/local/investi ... /327490798
Thanks, suitguy. This is why I emphasize the importance of primary sources. Of course, the link is not a primary source, but I have confidence that it's relying on a primary source. --Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:32 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:

Does your heart also tell you to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy?


The main reason republicans (I will use this group as a reference, since you tend to think of people as groups, not individuals) want vote reform is to ensure that only living, qualified citizens get to vote, and that any living, qualified citizen only gets to vote once. I would think most fair minded people would agree that all living and qualified American Citizens that care to vote in any election should be able to vote once in that election. The group that is opposing any and every effort to perform any verification of who gets to vote seems to be the democrat party. And it seems to me they use all their main tools to prevent any attempt to do so, and their most effective tool is to accuse people of being racist.
The actions taken by the North Carolina Legislature belie that rationale. To take the most obvious example, if that's all they cared about, why would they request the racial breakdown of various methods of voting? And once they had that information, why would they target the methods used by black voters with "almost surgical precision"? But that's exactly what the Fourth Circuit said they did.

Until you come to grips with the findings of fact in the Court's opinion, you're making an evidence-free argument. --Bob

When I lived in Raleigh I found that every polling place where I could vote early was in the northern part of Wake County; I lived in the southern part. The northern part is overwhelmingly White, the southern part is mostly mixed but has both Black and White enclaves. It's pretty obvious what the intent of that is.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:33 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:
Turns out Cetin was a naturalized US citizen and entitled to vote.

Quote:
UPDATE: KING 5 learned Thursday that Arcan Cetin, the 20-year-old who killed five people at Cascade Mall on Sept. 23, is in fact a U.S. citizen.

For days after the shooting, Cetin was described by local and federal law enforcement as being a permanent U.S. resident. He immigrated to the U.S. from Turkey when he was a child, after his mother married an American citizen.


http://www.king5.com/news/local/investi ... /327490798
Thanks, suitguy. This is why I emphasize the importance of primary sources. Of course, the link is not a primary source, but I have confidence that it's relying on a primary source. --Bob


I am all in for waiting for the final analysis. I wish more people would do that. Silly me thinking that KING-5 would do the same. But at least they corrected their mistake, most probably because it fit into their narrative to do so.

While this guy turns out to be a citizen, the discussion here is that, in our state at least, there is no easy way to check if a voter is actually eligible to vote. It took them several days to determine this guy's status. Even Voter ID wouldn't help us because we are one of 2 or 3 states that are in non compliance with our driver licenses and we get to vote by mail, where there is very little chance for oversight.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:01 am 
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned this.
http://www.snopes.com/2016/10/02/19-dead-people-registered/

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:52 am 
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earendel wrote:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this.
http://www.snopes.com/2016/10/02/19-dead-people-registered/


I didn't know about it until you posted it. I wonder why that is? Probably because it was made up by the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy".

Notice how snopes can't say it is false, but does it's best to discredit it. Kind of suggests that snopes leans left in it's evaluations. But the main stream media has made it's evaluation by not reporting it at all. No doubt they lean left.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:04 am 
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Note it say he turned in the registrations, not that the registrations were validated. I'm sure the registrar validates them against the Social Security Death Index as well as other sources.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:29 am 
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Bob Juch wrote:
Note it say he turned in the registrations, not that the registrations were validated. I'm sure the registrar validates them against the Social Security Death Index as well as other sources.

You're sure, are ya?
Then I guess it's ok.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:53 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
Note it say he turned in the registrations, not that the registrations were validated. I'm sure the registrar validates them against the Social Security Death Index as well as other sources.

You're sure, are ya?
Then I guess it's ok.

Yes, that's SOP.

This looks like an opposition operation. Someone wanted to be able to say, "See? I was able to submit phony registrations and no one stopped me." Let's see if they actually registered the zombies.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:02 pm 
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Bob Juch wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
Note it say he turned in the registrations, not that the registrations were validated. I'm sure the registrar validates them against the Social Security Death Index as well as other sources.

You're sure, are ya?
Then I guess it's ok.

Yes, that's SOP.

This looks like an opposition operation. Someone wanted to be able to say, "See? I was able to submit phony registrations and no one stopped me." Let's see if they actually registered the zombies.


LOL. From the report I heard (and nowadays you've got to take everything you read with a grain of salt, because there is no journalism anymore) the only reason this was caught was one worker who recognised one of the names and knew he was dead. And the guy who submitted them confessed and was from a democrat organization.

Besides, the opposition has already done something like this, and it didn't wake anyone up. James O'Keefe of Veritas got up right to the point of voting for someone else many times, and of course he was castigated for doing actual journalism by the main stream media.

But, of course this one was a VRWC operation. All of us members of the VWRC knew about it. We were told not to say anything.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:50 pm 
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The Supreme Court has denied certiorari. That means the Fourth Circuit's decision is final and is no longer subject to challenge. The State of North Carolina stands "convicted" (my paraphrase) of targeting minority voters for suppression efforts with "almost surgical precision" (the Court's language). --Bob

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:17 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
The Supreme Court has denied certiorari. That means the Fourth Circuit's decision is final and is no longer subject to challenge. The State of North Carolina stands "convicted" (my paraphrase) of targeting minority voters for suppression efforts with "almost surgical precision" (the Court's language). --Bob


North Carolina now has a Democratic governor so it will be somewhat more difficult to ram through functionally identical replacement legislation.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:19 pm 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
The Supreme Court has denied certiorari. That means the Fourth Circuit's decision is final and is no longer subject to challenge. The State of North Carolina stands "convicted" (my paraphrase) of targeting minority voters for suppression efforts with "almost surgical precision" (the Court's language). --Bob


North Carolina now has a Democratic governor so it will be somewhat more difficult to ram through functionally identical replacement legislation.
Not really. Republicans retain veto-proof majorities (60%) in both chambers of its Legislature. --Bob

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