Terrorist attack last night in Sweden FAKE NEWS!

[Spock]

Per 2nd/3rd generation issues.

I think gang rape in the Banlieues is more of a 2nd/3rd Generation issue. The gang rape culture is a horrific example of the mixing of the urban gang culture with Islamic misogynistic carryover crap.

If I can find it-I am moving Samira Bellil' book to the top of my list.

From Wiki:
>>>Bellil became famous in France with the publication of her autobiographical book Dans l'enfer des tournantes ('In the hell of the "tournantes" (gang-rapes)) in 2002. The book discusses the violence she and other young women endured in the predominantly North African and African immigrant outskirts of Paris, where she was repeatedly gang-raped as a teenager by gangs led by people she knew, and then abandoned by her family and friends. Her book is a portrayal of the predicament of young girls in the poor, outlying suburbs (banlieue) of French cities.<<<
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Obviously, most of the victims are young 2nd/3rd Gen North African and African immigrant girls.

Note: If anyone missed it(and is interested)-I had a long post that ended up at the bottom of page 3-this short post made the jump to page 4

[Spock]

SSS>>>"No, you've pointed out a lot of bad things about the culture in some Muslim countries. None of which has any bearing about whether refugees from those countries (hint: they are often trying to escape the oppression in their native county) <<<

With the "hint" about escaping oppression, you are touching on one of Victor Davis Hanson's themes. With massive waves of un-assimilated immigration you are not giving anybody a chance to escape from anything. The conditions that they left are being recreated en-masse across Western Europe.

[Bob78164]

SSS>>>"No, you've pointed out a lot of bad things about the culture in some Muslim countries. None of which has any bearing about whether refugees from those countries (hint: they are often trying to escape the oppression in their native county) <<<

With the "hint" about escaping oppression, you are touching on one of Victor Davis Hanson's themes. With massive waves of un-assimilated immigration you are not giving anybody a chance to escape from anything. The conditions that they left are being recreated en-masse across Western Europe.

It happens I have a friend who's been living in Norway for the last few years. She disagrees, strongly, with your take on Sweden. The Swedish crime rate simply hasn't gone up and it's quite safe. It appears that most Swedes are more concerned with the potential for government overreach than they are with restricting immigration.

I can't help wondering whether this apocalyptic view of Western Europe is akin to the doom-and-gloom image of our own inner cities that Donny and his cohorts like to promote. Scary, and plays to the predisposition of many of his supporters, but squarely contradicted by the actual facts for those who trouble themselves to look at those. --Bob

[Spock]

It happens I have a friend who's been living in Norway for the last few years. She disagrees, strongly, with your take on Sweden. The Swedish crime rate simply hasn't gone up and it's quite safe. It appears that most Swedes are more concerned with the potential for government overreach than they are with restricting immigration.

I can't help wondering whether this apocalyptic view of Western Europe is akin to the doom-and-gloom image of our own inner cities that Donny and his cohorts like to promote. Scary, and plays to the predisposition of many of his supporters, but squarely contradicted by the actual facts for those who trouble themselves to look at those. --Bob

Your friend have a lot of experience in the Banlieues?

I don't know if this is Apocalyptic or not, but in the "You Learn Something New Every Day" department- I did not know until just a few minutes ago that grenade attacks are a thing in parts of Sweden.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-sweden ... 9F20150809

[Bob Juch]

It happens I have a friend who's been living in Norway for the last few years. She disagrees, strongly, with your take on Sweden. The Swedish crime rate simply hasn't gone up and it's quite safe. It appears that most Swedes are more concerned with the potential for government overreach than they are with restricting immigration.

I can't help wondering whether this apocalyptic view of Western Europe is akin to the doom-and-gloom image of our own inner cities that Donny and his cohorts like to promote. Scary, and plays to the predisposition of many of his supporters, but squarely contradicted by the actual facts for those who trouble themselves to look at those. --Bob

Your friend have a lot of experience in the Banlieues?

I don't know if this is Apocalyptic or not, but in the "You Learn Something New Every Day" department- I did not know until just a few minutes ago that grenade attacks are a thing in parts of Sweden.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-sweden ... 9F20150809

It seems you still have a reading comprehension problem. It seems it's the anti-immigrants who are carrying out the attacks:

The attacks, as well as other bombs placed in cars and parks, have wounded two people this year but not killed anyone. The pattern of targets – from flats to offices and one building housing a Ramadan celebration – appears random. No one has been arrested.

The best guess, experts say, is a gang turf war that could easily see fatalities as tit-for-tat attacks spiral.

Iraqi-born Ghanem Almanei described the attack on the Ramadan celebration, attended by some 50 people. "It was a really big bomb. It was women, girls inside." said Almanei, his voice shaking, half-an-hour after men on motor bikes threw a grenade against the building. "I don't feel safe now in this country."

But the city’s most infamous killer was Swedish-born - Peter Mangs was arrested in 2010 for three murders and 13 attempted murders over a seven-year period, a string of shootings in Malmo targeting immigrants.

The city's main mosque has suffered several arson attacks. Jewish groups have warned of growing anti-Semitic attacks. Two schools were closed this year due to violence among students.

[Bob78164]

It happens I have a friend who's been living in Norway for the last few years. She disagrees, strongly, with your take on Sweden. The Swedish crime rate simply hasn't gone up and it's quite safe. It appears that most Swedes are more concerned with the potential for government overreach than they are with restricting immigration.

I can't help wondering whether this apocalyptic view of Western Europe is akin to the doom-and-gloom image of our own inner cities that Donny and his cohorts like to promote. Scary, and plays to the predisposition of many of his supporters, but squarely contradicted by the actual facts for those who trouble themselves to look at those. --Bob

Your friend have a lot of experience in the Banlieues?

I don't know if this is Apocalyptic or not, but in the "You Learn Something New Every Day" department- I did not know until just a few minutes ago that grenade attacks are a thing in parts of Sweden.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-sweden ... 9F20150809

Switching topics from Sweden to France is not a terribly persuasive way to defend your original point. It suggests that you are changing the subject as a way to avoid admitting error. Can you defend your statements about Sweden or not? --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

Your friend have a lot of experience in the Banlieues?

And what, pray tell, is your experience in the Banlieues?

Other than the pronouncements of Mark Steyn, whose academic reputation is only slightly higher than Donald Trump's.

[Estonut]

Your friend have a lot of experience in the Banlieues?

And what, pray tell, is your experience in the Banlieues?

Other than the pronouncements of Mark Steyn, whose academic reputation is only slightly higher than Donald Trump's.

I bet they both know how to attribute quotes properly...

[Spock]

Bob#'s>>>Switching topics from Sweden to France is not a terribly persuasive way to defend your original point. It suggests that you are changing the subject as a way to avoid admitting error. Can you defend your statements about Sweden or not? --Bob<<<

How exactly did I switch from Sweden to France? What part of "Grenade Attacks in Sweden" did you not understand?

Can your friend provide any local color on those atacks?

SSS>>>Other than the pronouncements of Mark Steyn, whose academic reputation is only slightly higher than Donald Trump's.<<<

As Bit would say-"It's hard to argue with logic like that."

[Spock]

Your friend have a lot of experience in the Banlieues?

And what, pray tell, is your experience in the Banlieues?

I realize that I am not a highly-trained attorney as you and Bob are. However, the way Bob presented her:

>>"It happens I have a friend who's been living in Norway for the last few years. She disagrees, strongly, with your take on Sweden. <<<

Is the equivalent of saying "I have a friend in Portland, Maine, she thinks things are just hunky-dory in the slums of Mexico City."

Would that pass muster in court? It is apparently my mistake that I assumed a little more specialized knowledge on her part.

[Spock]

Me earlier>>>"With the "hint" about escaping oppression, you are touching on one of Victor Davis Hanson's themes. With massive waves of un-assimilated immigration you are not giving anybody a chance to escape from anything. The conditions that they left are being recreated en-masse across Western Europe."<<<<

I am going to throw SSS a bone here, and post something from Breitbart so he can have the fun of doing his "Blah, Blah, Blah-Breitbart-Blah, Blah, Blah" thing.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02 ... -migrants/

As you can read for yourself-the gist of the article is that the "Good Guys" in the Swedish Banlieues would like the government to deport the "Bad Guys."

If the Swedish government can not gather the political will the deport the bad guys, and it is very clear that that they won't , they are, effectively, sentencing the good guys to life under horrific conditions that some might consider Apocalyptic.

[Bob78164]

Bob#'s>>>Switching topics from Sweden to France is not a terribly persuasive way to defend your original point. It suggests that you are changing the subject as a way to avoid admitting error. Can you defend your statements about Sweden or not? --Bob<<<

How exactly did I switch from Sweden to France? What part of "Grenade Attacks in Sweden" did you not understand?

Can your friend provide any local color on those atacks?

SSS>>>Other than the pronouncements of Mark Steyn, whose academic reputation is only slightly higher than Donald Trump's.<<<

As Bit would say-"It's hard to argue with logic like that."

The part where you start talking about the Banlieues. And where you attribute the grenade attacks to immigrants without, as far as I can tell, any actual evidence to support the claim.

Speaking of changing the subject, I have a hard time understanding how this woman poses a threat to anyone, or why her removal is so urgent that it requires the expenditure of public resources.

I'm reading, by the way, that there's a significant nationwide labor shortage in the construction industry, which is contributing to a housing shortage and driving up prices. Raising salaries hasn't helped to solve the problem. There aren't enough Americans who are willing to do that work, or even to be trained for it. I'm already a homeowner so I guess I should be okay with home prices continuing to rise. But I'd rather see more housing built, so that people like my son can afford someday also to be homeowners. --Bob

[Spock]

Bob#'s>>>"The part where you start talking about the Banlieues." <<< referring to how I had somehow switched from Sweden to France

Sorry, I had assumed that since you place yourself in the category of "those who trouble themselves to look at the facts for themselves."-that you would have known that Banlieues are also a slang term for the relevant areas of Sweden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Bob#'s>>>" And where you attribute the grenade attacks to immigrants without, as far as I can tell, any actual evidence to support the claim."

It is kind of neat to look where Bob#s has moved in this discussion. He has moved in the last couple of weeks from "problems in Sweden are just fake news" to disputing whether or not Frickin' GRENADE ATTACKS in Sweden are immigrant-related or not.

Oh, and BTW-When did I ever attribute the grenade attacks to immigrants?

[Bob Juch]

http://us.blastingnews.com/news/2017/02 ... 02379.html

[silvercamaro]

http://us.blastingnews.com/news/2017/02 ... 02379.html

Blasting News? The "citizen journalists" site with a clear agenda? Now there's a trustworthy source on all topics. Have you tried writing for them, Bob? I think you would fit right in. Or could, if you hadn't already determined that other citizen journalists could never be trusted. But, if you can get over that, you could make a good $4 for every 1,000 readers. Go for it.

[Spock]

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how- ... migration/

I found a lengthy article on the Sweden refugee issue in "The Spectator" (which may be a right-wing rag, for all I know and care) which simply says this-regarding the death of the 8-Year Old boy in a grenade attack.

>>>"Last week’s murder of eight-year-old Yuusuf Warsame fits a pattern that Swedes have come slowly to recognise over the years. He was from Birmingham, visiting relatives, and was caught up in what Swedish police believe is a gang war within the Somali community. Last year, a four-year-old girl was killed by a car bomb outside Gothenburg, another apparent victim of gang violence."<<<<

Are SSS and the Bobs so wedded to the idea that there are absolutely no downsides to mass immigration that even the concept of warring Somali gangs is completely beyond their understanding?

And if anyone has read my posts to this point you know that I do not view this as simply a Muslim/Immigrant issue. I regard the 2nd/3rd Generation of un-assimilated people as a core part of the problem.

Obviously, I do not know, nor do I care, whether the specific member of the Somali gang who grenaded the little boy was born in Somalia or in Sweden. That would be a distinction without a difference.

However, if the perp did turn out to be born in Sweden, I can see people like SSS and the Bobs trumpeting that. "Fake news-it wasn't an immigrant-so there."

[Spock]

http://us.blastingnews.com/news/2017/02 ... 02379.html

Blasting News? The "citizen journalists" site with a clear agenda? Now there's a trustworthy source on all topics. Have you tried writing for them, Bob? I think you would fit right in. Or could, if you hadn't already determined that other citizen journalists could never be trusted. But, if you can get over that, you could make a good $4 for every 1,000 readers. Go for it.

Obviously, this is BobJ's thread and he can post anything he wants-here or anywhere else. However, I think it is interesting that this is where he is in the thread. Calling out a Fox News personality that I don't think anyone here cited in any way.

I think we all learned something in this thread. I don't think anyone knew that there are dozens or hundreds of grenade attacks in Sweden. If anybody else knew they certainly didn't share it.

I realize that part of the game is to be super-legalistic on anybody who says anything that might be construed as anti-immigrant.

We haven't even touched on "Lara Logan"-style sexual assaults which appear to be a thing that is happening in Western Europe.

Did all of the hundreds of women who reported being assaulted in Lara Logan-style sexual assaults in Cologne and other German cities on New Year's Eve a year ago just make that up?

[Spock]

A Swedish Detective Speaks

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... crime.html

I could pull-quote the whole thing-but I will pick out a few excerpts.

>>>"'The highest and most extreme violence - rapes and shooting - is dominated by criminal immigrants."<<

>>>"aired his anger on social media when he was told not to record the ethnicity of violent crime suspects."<<<

Spock's comment-How can we gather Bob's and SSS's vaunted data when the police can't even record the relevant info?

>>>"'This is a different criminality that is tougher and rawer. It is not what we would call ordinary Swedish crime. This is a different animal.'<<<<<<<

>>>>He wrote: 'Here we go; this I've handled Monday-Friday this week: rape, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, rape-assault and rape, extortion, blackmail, off of, assault, violence against police, threats to police, drug crime, drugs, crime, felony, attempted murder, Rape again, extortion again and ill-treatment.

'Suspected perpetrators; Ali Mohammed, mahmod, Mohammed, Mohammed Ali, again, again, again Christopher... what is it true. Yes a Swedish name snuck on the outskirts of a drug crime, Mohammed, Mahmod Ali, again and again."<<<<<

>>>'Countries representing the weekly crimes: Iraq, Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia, Somalia, Syria again, Somalia, unknown, unknown country, Sweden. <<<<

>>>'Half of the suspects, we can't be sure because they don't have any valid papers. Which in itself usually means that they're lying about your nationality and identity.'<<<<

[Spock]

Obviously, there is all kinds of stuff floating around on Sweden.

http://mashable.com/2017/03/01/tim-pool ... IIV35BLGqY

I found one passage from the above story to be interesting.

>>>>Speaking to a resident in the Rosengard neighborhood, Pool notes that it seems to be an issue of perception—that crime is indeed rising but perhaps the increase is not as steep as it may seem to those not used to violence.<<<<

To each their own, but I kind of like not being used to violence. Was normalizing violence in the fine print when Sweden decided on mass immigration from the 3rd World?

[Spock]

Obviously, this thread has gone dormant, but don't worry, I have worked mostly by myself for decades, so I can keep a conversation going for days (LOL).

I realize that we have the attention span of gnats, but this is when this topic is really getting interesting and acquiring some depth as people investigate what is going on in Sweden (and elsewhere).

Not that I expect anyone to read back, but if you read back, or at least think back on this thread, notice how much of the argument of those on the opposite side to me was focused on "Killing the Messenger" from Trump on down. They brought little or nothing to the table.

A classic example was provided by SSS.
>>>Other than the pronouncements of Mark Steyn, whose academic reputation is only slightly higher than Donald Trump's.<<<<

Okay, fine. Steyn is wrong. Where is your guy that has spent years studying the issue and can tell us that everything is hunky-dory?

[silverscreenselect]

Spock's comment-How can we gather Bob's and SSS's vaunted data when the police can't even record the relevant info?

Many European countries (including Sweden) have significantly greater privacy restrictions than we do in the United States. Here in the US, we are primarily concerned with keeping financial and medical information private. In much of Europe, any information that might tend to indicate race, religion, national origin, sexual preference, etc., is tightly controlled. It affects how major companies do business. They have to comply with European Union privacy laws and they can't operate the same as they do in the United State. And it affects how the police operate.

What these European countries are afraid of is a central government using that information to round up "undesirables" of a certain ethnic, racial, or religious group, something that almost every country in Europe has had direct experience with in the not too distant past.

We haven't had that experience in this country (fortunately) with limited exceptions like the Japanese internment, so most of us don't have that fear. Perhaps if Grandpa or Grandma Spock had been hauled off to a labor camp (or worse), you might feel a bit differently about some of these tactics.

[Bob78164]

Okay, fine. Steyn is wrong. Where is your guy that has spent years studying the issue and can tell us that everything is hunky-dory?

Funny you should ask. Try this guy. --Bob

[Spock]

Part 1 of 2: A couple of things floating around today. To be posted in successive Posts.

On (No) Government Statistics. One might wonder if the non-public reports found something that the Swedish Government did not want to find.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-truth ... le/2007071

>>>"As far as sex crime, it is obviously preposterous to call Sweden a "rape capital." Yet evidence suggests that immigration has had an impact on sexual violence in Sweden.

...The report, which covers the years 1997-2001, shows that immigrants from the Middle East and Africa were heavily overrepresented among suspects of violent crime, particularly for sexual offenses. Another study of gang rapes in Sweden in the 1990s indicated that a majority of group rapes in Sweden were committed by first- and second-generation immigrants.

There are, unfortunately, no more recent studies. Data are still being collected but are not compiled and made publicly available. The Swedish justice minister, Morgan Johansson, explained in an interview recently that there is no need to publish any new reports, because the facts are well-known from earlier studies."<<<<<

[Spock]

Part 2 of 2: The second of 2 things floating around today.

On Killing the Messenger

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... spise.html

<<<<There's been a complaint about my first report from Sweden.

A reader is very angry because I suggested the child raped by a 45-year-old migrant (posing as an unaccompanied minor) was 14.

In fact, he was 12.

This is the state of liberalism today. So determined to prove I am wrong, my observations erroneous, the stories I have on tape inaccurate, that it has lost all sight of the raped migrant child crumpled in the corner."<<<<

[silverscreenselect]

Part 2 of 2: The second of 2 things floating around today.

On Killing the Messenger

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... spise.html

<<<<There's been a complaint about my first report from Sweden.

A reader is very angry because I suggested the child raped by a 45-year-old migrant (posing as an unaccompanied minor) was 14.

In fact, he was 12.

This is the state of liberalism today. So determined to prove I am wrong, my observations erroneous, the stories I have on tape inaccurate, that it has lost all sight of the raped migrant child crumpled in the corner."<<<<

I guess I was wrong. Your evidence, a talk with one fireman, one policeman, and the head of a right wing Swedish political party is overwhelming. Those photos of the Swedish fire station really showed the extent to which crime and vandalism have permeated the station. I doubt you could find many U.S. fire stations looking as spic and span as that one.

It would seem to me that if this "journalist" needed proof of how much of a hellhole the migrant areas have become, all it would take would be one cab ride and a few photos on her iPhone. I mean we've seen plenty of photos of places that actually are hellholes like Syria where many of these people came from. But I guess this reporter was too busy getting proof by photographing a bunch of fire tools (very neatly cleaned and arranged I should note).