Immigration and Housing

[Spock]

Bob#'s in the other thread>>>I'm reading, by the way, that there's a significant nationwide labor shortage in the construction industry, which is contributing to a housing shortage and driving up prices. Raising salaries hasn't helped to solve the problem. There aren't enough Americans who are willing to do that work, or even to be trained for it. I'm already a homeowner so I guess I should be okay with home prices continuing to rise. But I'd rather see more housing built, so that people like my son can afford someday also to be homeowners. --Bob<<<<

Bob touches on one interesting school of thought on immigration. Which is basically that without immigrants we can't build enough houses.

Another school of thought that seems popular on the left is that a crackdown on immigration will lead to a housing market crash because there won't be enough demand for houses.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... eal-estate

There is another wrinkle to the housing issue that is more unique to California that I may touch on in another post if time permits.

[Spock]

Stepping away from the housing thing, I have been thinking about something for awhile and it kind of fits here.

For advocates of mass unlimited immigration-How many people would be too many people for California?

As of right now-there are about 40 million people in an infrastructure that was built for 20 million.

Obviously, there is an unlimited demand for "California" in Latin America/Africa etc.

Would California be "California" with 80 million people? 100 million? 150 million?

[Spock]

>>There aren't enough Americans who are willing to do that work,<<<

I am guessing that I have more direct experience with migrant/immigrant labor than most others here-Jaybee might have some as well.

It seems that those on the left without experience in the area almost view the migrants as "Cardboard Jesus's" that don't have normal human foibles and flaws.

Just a couple of quick anecdotes for now.

A friend that employs them in his dairy said that the Mexicans hate the Nicaraguans and it really does not work to have them on the same crew.

A large conglomerate in the area owns "X" number of large dairy farms and exclusively employs Mexicans. They employ hundreds and hundreds of Mexicans. They have the guys live in apartments at the site of the farm. They are brought in through either 3-year or 18-month visas.

They don't employ females through this program because (in their words) it is a promiscuous culture and that would lead to problems. The knives might start coming out in those situations.

[Bob78164]

>>There aren't enough Americans who are willing to do that work,<<<

I am guessing that I have more direct experience with migrant/immigrant labor than most others here-Jaybee might have some as well.

It seems that those on the left without experience in the area almost view the migrants as "Cardboard Jesus's" that don't have normal human foibles and flaws.

Just a couple of quick anecdotes for now.

A friend that employs them in his dairy said that the Mexicans hate the Nicaraguans and it really does not work to have them on the same crew.

A large conglomerate in the area owns "X" number of large dairy farms and exclusively employs Mexicans. They employ hundreds and hundreds of Mexicans. They have the guys live in apartments at the site of the farm. They are brought in through either 3-year or 18-month visas.

They don't employ females through this program because (in their words) it is a promiscuous culture and that would lead to problems. The knives might start coming out in those situations.

There's no excuse for punishing women by excluding them as a class from work, particularly if the problem is men who are pulling out knives. And if the conglomerate is deliberately excluding non-Mexicans, it's liable for national origin discrimination. Both gender discrimination and national origin discrimination are contrary to federal law. I'm guessing that local juries would be quite sympathetic to any proper plaintiff. --Bob

[BackInTex]

There's no excuse for punishing women by excluding them as a class from work, particularly if the problem is men who are pulling out knives. And if the conglomerate is deliberately excluding non-Mexicans, it's liable for national origin discrimination. Both gender discrimination and national origin discrimination are contrary to federal law. I'm guessing that local juries would be quite sympathetic to any proper plaintiff. --Bob

LOL

The law (and lawyer) doesn't accept the ways of the world. You can have your opinion on how things should work, but that won't make them work that way.

I guess if you ran a farm, you'd hire the women. And then when they are raped and possibly murdered, you hold the men accountable. Then hold yourself up as some champion of the women. But you got them raped and killed.

[Bob78164]

There's no excuse for punishing women by excluding them as a class from work, particularly if the problem is men who are pulling out knives. And if the conglomerate is deliberately excluding non-Mexicans, it's liable for national origin discrimination. Both gender discrimination and national origin discrimination are contrary to federal law. I'm guessing that local juries would be quite sympathetic to any proper plaintiff. --Bob

LOL

The law (and lawyer) doesn't accept the ways of the world. You can have your opinion on how things should work, but that won't make them work that way.

I guess if you ran a farm, you'd hire the women. And then when they are raped and possibly murdered, you hold the men accountable. Then hold yourself up as some champion of the women. But you got them raped and killed.

If the farm is private property, it seems like I'd have the right (and maybe even the responsibility) to search all workers for weapons. And anyone caught with one is fired. In California, I could probably also have them charged with possession of a deadly weapon. That's certainly how it would work in my workplace.

Your "solution" condemns the women to perpetual economic dependence on men.

But what I'm really saying is that when a woman sues for being deprived of that job, she'll win. --Bob

[Spock]

Remember, it is not only the possibility of the woman being attacked, it is also the 2 (or more) guys fighting each other.

Before I touch on the practicalities, what if Bob were looking at this (as a lawyer) from the side of a Mexican worker on the site?

"We are basically locked-in and they won't even let us have steak knives in the kitchen." I suspect some liberal lawyers would love to jump on that case.

Now the practicalities:

These farms are 160 acres without a fence. There are multiple buildings with thousands of cattle on site. There are countless sharp objects and heavy tools that are necessary for the business, but that could easily be used as weapons.

There are dozens of workers living on site with people constantly coming and going.

Also, assuming that you could remove all weapons from site, how could you stop the fight from occurring 1/2 mile off property?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have mentioned this before, but it may resonate more in this thread.

The owners of the "X" number of dairy farms are members of a very conservative church that tend to be very aggressive farmers and businessmen. The local nickname for them is "Switzers."

A local joke is that the Switzers have always wanted slaves and they finally figured out how to get them-Obviously, meaning migrant labor.

[Spock]

"The Jobs Americans Won't Do"

See my above post for background.

Nobody is quite sure how many large dairy farms "X" owns. They are always building more and I think they roughly plan on adding one a year. I know of 2 in progress at this point.

It is easy for them to say-we have to hire Mexicans because Americans won't do the work for us. Because, obviously, they won't.

They have an unlimited supply of docile workers for as many dairies as they want to build.

This is so demoralizing for my friends that are in the dairy business, but obviously, at a much smaller scale.

For them, it almost becomes "Why even bother anymore? If I quit "X" will just add more dairies anyway.'

[BackInTex]

If the farm is private property, it seems like I'd have the right (and maybe even the responsibility) to search all workers for weapons. And anyone caught with one is fired. In California, I could probably also have them charged with possession of a deadly weapon. That's certainly how it would work in my workplace.

But you don't have a workplace, and I'd wager you never have.

Your "solution" condemns the women to perpetual economic dependence on men.

How so? Do you think so little of the capability of women that you think they can do nothing else to earn a living other than work as a farm laborer beside men?

But what I'm really saying is that when a woman sues for being deprived of that job, she'll win. --Bob

And that is a flaw in the liberal laws we have in place. You talk about protections, but not really protecting people from harm, just from getting their feelings hurt. They'll feel good about themselves as they get raped or murdered.

[Bob78164]

If the farm is private property, it seems like I'd have the right (and maybe even the responsibility) to search all workers for weapons. And anyone caught with one is fired. In California, I could probably also have them charged with possession of a deadly weapon. That's certainly how it would work in my workplace.

But you don't have a workplace, and I'd wager you never have.

Your "solution" condemns the women to perpetual economic dependence on men.

How so? Do you think so little of the capability of women that you think they can do nothing else to earn a living other than work as a farm laborer beside men?

But what I'm really saying is that when a woman sues for being deprived of that job, she'll win. --Bob

And that is a flaw in the liberal laws we have in place. You talk about protections, but not really protecting people from harm, just from getting their feelings hurt. They'll feel good about themselves as they get raped or murdered.

I've had a workplace for decades. And most if not all of them have had policies strictly prohibiting the possession of weapons.

Hey! I have a novel idea! Let's impose the economic and legal consequences on the people doing the raping and murdering instead of imposing them on their would-be victims. If the choice had to be made (and I don't believe it does), instead of taking the opportunities away from women who aren't raping or murdering anyone, take them away from the men who are.

No one is forcing a woman to apply for these jobs. But if she wants to, she should be assessed on her ability to do it, not on the employer's unwillingness to pay the money necessary to provide a safe workplace.

As for Spock's point, it sounds like these companies are plenty big enough to afford private security to protect people on property. It's not right for them to avoid those costs by engaging in blatant gender-based discrimination. --Bob

[Bob Juch]

>>There aren't enough Americans who are willing to do that work,<<<

I am guessing that I have more direct experience with migrant/immigrant labor than most others here-Jaybee might have some as well.

It seems that those on the left without experience in the area almost view the migrants as "Cardboard Jesus's" that don't have normal human foibles and flaws.

Just a couple of quick anecdotes for now.

A friend that employs them in his dairy said that the Mexicans hate the Nicaraguans and it really does not work to have them on the same crew.

A large conglomerate in the area owns "X" number of large dairy farms and exclusively employs Mexicans. They employ hundreds and hundreds of Mexicans. They have the guys live in apartments at the site of the farm. They are brought in through either 3-year or 18-month visas.

They don't employ females through this program because (in their words) it is a promiscuous culture and that would lead to problems. The knives might start coming out in those situations.

There's no excuse for punishing women by excluding them as a class from work, particularly if the problem is men who are pulling out knives. And if the conglomerate is deliberately excluding non-Mexicans, it's liable for national origin discrimination. Both gender discrimination and national origin discrimination are contrary to federal law. I'm guessing that local juries would be quite sympathetic to any proper plaintiff. --Bob

I'm sure the local juries would be totally unsympathetic.

[Spock]

>>>If the farm is private property, it seems like I'd have the right (and maybe even the responsibility) to search all workers for weapons. And anyone caught with one is fired. In California, I could probably also have them charged with possession of a deadly weapon. That's certainly how it would work in my workplace.<<<<

I suppose we could do all that, but maybe it would be easier to just have them attend some classes that they shouldn't stab people.

Caveat: It has been a couple years since I spoke with the guy about the "No Women" on-site deal. It is possible that it has changed, but to my knowledge it has not.

Knowing some of the guys that own the farms: Discipline would be a very strong component of their workforce program-Yes, if they screw up they are gone. They are going to keep their slaves in line,after all. But, what happens in the heat of the moment, happens.

[Spock]

It is kind of neat how this thread has turned. It is almost a case study of "Theory vs Real World."

I think it is fair to say that the typical Mexican male is probably less enlightened regarding gender roles, than, say, the faculty of Berkeley might be.

What would happen if you put an apartment of 4 young, single Hispanic women into the larger on-site apartment building with dozens of young, single Hispanic men? And maybe throw a little alcohol into the mix?

Are the men going to be frantically thumbing through their Womyn's Studies textbooks? Or are they more likely going to view, and treat, these women as "Puta."

I would not want to put my daughter into that situation.

[Bob78164]

It is kind of neat how this thread has turned. It is almost a case study of "Theory vs Real World."

I think it is fair to say that the typical Mexican male is probably less enlightened regarding gender roles, than, say, the faculty of Berkeley might be.

What would happen if you put an apartment of 4 young, single Hispanic women into the larger on-site apartment building with dozens of young, single Hispanic men? And maybe throw a little alcohol into the mix?

Are the men going to be frantically thumbing through their Womyn's Studies textbooks? Or are they more likely going to view, and treat, these women as "Puta."

I would not want to put my daughter into that situation.

But that would be her call to make. --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

I think it is fair to say that the typical Mexican male is probably less enlightened regarding gender roles, than, say, the faculty of Berkeley might be.

What would happen if you put an apartment of 4 young, single Hispanic women into the larger on-site apartment building with dozens of young, single Hispanic men? And maybe throw a little alcohol into the mix?

Are the men going to be frantically thumbing through their Womyn's Studies textbooks? Or are they more likely going to view, and treat, these women as "Puta."

I would not want to put my daughter into that situation.

I'm sure you spend a lot of time conversing with and studying typical Mexican males out there in the wilds of Minnesota. I do happen to live among a lot of what I presume are actual "typical Mexican males," many of whom have had too much to drink (last Saturday morning we found one passed out on the stairs leading up to our unit; he seemed very embarrassed when I woke him up and he left right away). I have fewer concerns about Mrs. SSS's and our daughter's safety than I would living in some other places. Playing into prejudices about "bad hombres" is what Donald Trump does.

[Bob78164]

It is kind of neat how this thread has turned. It is almost a case study of "Theory vs Real World."

I think it is fair to say that the typical Mexican male is probably less enlightened regarding gender roles, than, say, the faculty of Berkeley might be.

What would happen if you put an apartment of 4 young, single Hispanic women into the larger on-site apartment building with dozens of young, single Hispanic men? And maybe throw a little alcohol into the mix?

Are the men going to be frantically thumbing through their Womyn's Studies textbooks? Or are they more likely going to view, and treat, these women as "Puta."

I would not want to put my daughter into that situation.

Are you saying these men never have women over to their apartments now? Are rapes and murders common now? --Bob

[Bob78164]

It is kind of neat how this thread has turned. It is almost a case study of "Theory vs Real World."

I think it is fair to say that the typical Mexican male is probably less enlightened regarding gender roles, than, say, the faculty of Berkeley might be.

What would happen if you put an apartment of 4 young, single Hispanic women into the larger on-site apartment building with dozens of young, single Hispanic men? And maybe throw a little alcohol into the mix?

Are the men going to be frantically thumbing through their Womyn's Studies textbooks? Or are they more likely going to view, and treat, these women as "Puta."

I would not want to put my daughter into that situation.

What I find fascinating is the comfort level with the use of identity politics to support discriminatory practices by people I presume oppose identity politics when used to fight discrimination and its effects. --Bob

[Spock]

I'm sure you spend a lot of time conversing with and studying typical Mexican males out there in the wilds of Minnesota.

My God, you are predictable. I knew you would go there. As I said in my earlier post-I have as much, or more experience with migrant type labor as anyone else here.

Just one example-The guys that rent my hog barns, have migrant help do 95% of the work in the barns. I am looking out the window right now trying to judge distance to the closest barn-maybe 100 yards, probably a little more.

They do the work inside the barns. I take care of the exterior and the manure. I don't see them every day, but I see them and communicate with them (as language allows) on a regular basis.

Mrs. S (as a woman) has some concerns with the Spocklette being dropped off the bus and walking past the barns by herself at a regular time. The potential for problems can't help but cross my mind, but I would be as cognizant of this if it were transient whites working there as well.

As a matter of course, if I am in the area, I will pick her up from the bus or walk down and meet her. Not just because of the safety issue-it is just a fun time to visit with her and so it kind of kills 2 birds with one stone and Mrs. is happy when I do that.

One thought that crosses my mind in that area, is if something did happen-not necessarily to the Spocklette, but in any other areas as well. It would be much easier for a "Hector Rodriguez" (if that were even his real name) to disappear off the grid than it would be for a "Bill Young" to vanish.

As far as me cowering in fear, or however you envision me living my life. I realize this is an open forum, but that is OK. I am 50 years old and I have never lived in a house with locks. Note that I did not say "I never lock my doors"- I said, "I have never lived in a house with locks."

Obviously, if I built a new house-it would have locks as a matter of course.

Or if things start going dystopian like they are in portions of California's Central Valley, then we would have to figure out how to live life more securely.

[Spock]

SSS>>>I'm sure you spend a lot of time conversing with and studying typical Mexican males out there in the wilds of Minnesota.<<<

I realize that this was a sneer meant for me and I addressed that in my post above.

However, in a way, it shows your complete and comfortable ignorance. "The Wilds of Minnesota" are full of the "Jobs Americans Won't Do." From turkey slaughter plants on down-migrant/immigrant labor is here in full-force.

[Spock]

Obviously, one of the memes after the election was that the xenophobic Trump voters in the Red States/Counties are not exposed to the world -etc etc.

I am starting to wonder if the "Trump Counties" are more exposed to the raw underbelly of immigration than might be the case in Blue Counties.

Compare and contrast the stereotypical situations of immigration in Silicon Valley with the experiences of a smallish town with a turkey slaughter plant that is dealing with an extremely diverse workforce (Not just Mexicans) and is now dealing with problems of gangs and school and social service issues that they have not had before.

[Spock]

I found the following to be funny in both senses of the term. Funny (Interesting) and Funny (Ha-Ha).

Willmar, Minnesota (pop. about 20,000) is the county seat of Kandiyohi County. This is about 70 miles from me and is one of the regional centers in the area that draws us there for various medical/business reasons.

Willmar is absolute "Ground-Zero" for immigration in "The Wilds of Minnesota."

As seen in the following, which is taken from the information page of the Kandiyohi County Fair website: The fair has obviously had some gang-related issues and they are trying to cover every possible gang-related base.

We could play the game: "Is this the wilds of Minnesota or is it Compton?"

Please, by all means, tell me more about how people in the Trump counties are insulated from the wonderful, wacky world of mass immigration.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
http://www.kandifair.com/fair%20information.html

"Gang Policy

— The Kandiyohi County Fair Association recognizes that the presence of gangs, gang activity, and gang affiliations can cause a disruption of, or interfere with fair activities and fair safety. Gang activity, identifiers, or membership is contrary to the mission of the Kandiyohi County Fair.
— Gang identifiers, which may change periodically, are signs, gestures, insignias, symbols, colors or combinations of colors, clothing, and wearing apparel or accessories which are intended to publicly demonstrate an affiliation of a student with a gang.
— Examples of gang identifiers include, but are not limited to: gang colors, tattoos, bandannas,“do-rags,” sweatbands, gang clothing, jewelry, emblems, badges, symbols, signs, 5 or 6 pointed stars, arrows, pitchforks, crowns, identifying numbers (i.e. 5, 6, 13, 14, 7-4, XIII, XIV), groups of names, initials, acronyms, playboy bunny insignia, a single glove, a heart with: wings, horns, tail, or any combination thereof, drama or theater masks, praying hands, martini glass, top hat, cane dollar sign, gang expressions (i.e. “amor de rey,” “all is well,” “all is one,” “mi vida loca,” “my crazy life,” “vato loco,” “crazy one,” “Folks,” “People,” “BOS,” “MOB,” “Free Larry {Larry Hoover-founder of the Gangster Disciples}, etc.), notches in eyebrows. The administration may add to the list of identifiers at any time.
— Any combination of clothing which, upon guidance from law enforcement agencies, commonly signifies gang identity, membership, or affiliation is prohibited.
— Public may not wear, or display, any gang identifiers while on fair property, or at fair-sponsored activities.
— Wearing pants below the waist line (sagging) is not allowed.
— Belt buckles with any initials are prohibited.
— Wearing an over-sized belt with one end hanging down is prohibited.
— Gang related hats, baseball type caps, or other gang related head gear may not be worn, nor worn in a tilted or cocked position,on fair property or at fair-sponsored activities. An official fair cap (approved by the association) representing the current fair of residence may be worn.
— NOTE: Gang members will wear the hat with the brim titled or cocked to one side showing affiliation to the tilted side.This may be done in the front or the back of the head. At times the brim may be straight forward or backwards but the entire hat may be tilted to one side. They also wear stocking caps in the same way, with an emblem or a patch as a replacement for the brim of a baseball cap. It is true that this has become a fashion trend, but it is important to remember that the trend came from the “Gang Culture” and still signifies affiliation with the gang culture as the kids want to appear “Gangster” looking."

[earendel]

"Gang Policy

— The Kandiyohi County Fair Association recognizes that the presence of gangs, gang activity, and gang affiliations can cause a disruption of, or interfere with fair activities and fair safety. Gang activity, identifiers, or membership is contrary to the mission of the Kandiyohi County Fair.
— Gang identifiers, which may change periodically, are signs, gestures, insignias, symbols, colors or combinations of colors, clothing, and wearing apparel or accessories which are intended to publicly demonstrate an affiliation of a student with a gang.
— Examples of gang identifiers include, but are not limited to: gang colors, tattoos, bandannas,“do-rags,” sweatbands, gang clothing, jewelry, emblems, badges, symbols, signs, 5 or 6 pointed stars, arrows, pitchforks, crowns, identifying numbers (i.e. 5, 6, 13, 14, 7-4, XIII, XIV), groups of names, initials, acronyms, playboy bunny insignia, a single glove, a heart with: wings, horns, tail, or any combination thereof, drama or theater masks, praying hands, martini glass, top hat, cane dollar sign, gang expressions (i.e. “amor de rey,” “all is well,” “all is one,” “mi vida loca,” “my crazy life,” “vato loco,” “crazy one,” “Folks,” “People,” “BOS,” “MOB,” “Free Larry {Larry Hoover-founder of the Gangster Disciples}, etc.), notches in eyebrows. The administration may add to the list of identifiers at any time.
— Any combination of clothing which, upon guidance from law enforcement agencies, commonly signifies gang identity, membership, or affiliation is prohibited.
— Public may not wear, or display, any gang identifiers while on fair property, or at fair-sponsored activities.
— Wearing pants below the waist line (sagging) is not allowed.
— Belt buckles with any initials are prohibited.
— Wearing an over-sized belt with one end hanging down is prohibited.
— Gang related hats, baseball type caps, or other gang related head gear may not be worn, nor worn in a tilted or cocked position,on fair property or at fair-sponsored activities. An official fair cap (approved by the association) representing the current fair of residence may be worn.
— NOTE: Gang members will wear the hat with the brim titled or cocked to one side showing affiliation to the tilted side.This may be done in the front or the back of the head. At times the brim may be straight forward or backwards but the entire hat may be tilted to one side. They also wear stocking caps in the same way, with an emblem or a patch as a replacement for the brim of a baseball cap. It is true that this has become a fashion trend, but it is important to remember that the trend came from the “Gang Culture” and still signifies affiliation with the gang culture as the kids want to appear “Gangster” looking."

Just because there are problems with gangs doesn't necessarily mean that the gangs are comprised of immigrants.

[Bob Juch]

I found the following to be funny in both senses of the term. Funny (Interesting) and Funny (Ha-Ha).

Willmar, Minnesota (pop. about 20,000) is the county seat of Kandiyohi County. This is about 70 miles from me and is one of the regional centers in the area that draws us there for various medical/business reasons.

Willmar is absolute "Ground-Zero" for immigration in "The Wilds of Minnesota."

As seen in the following, which is taken from the information page of the Kandiyohi County Fair website: The fair has obviously had some gang-related issues and they are trying to cover every possible gang-related base.

We could play the game: "Is this the wilds of Minnesota or is it Compton?"

Please, by all means, tell me more about how people in the Trump counties are insulated from the wonderful, wacky world of mass immigration.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
http://www.kandifair.com/fair%20information.html

"Gang Policy

— The Kandiyohi County Fair Association recognizes that the presence of gangs, gang activity, and gang affiliations can cause a disruption of, or interfere with fair activities and fair safety. Gang activity, identifiers, or membership is contrary to the mission of the Kandiyohi County Fair.
— Gang identifiers, which may change periodically, are signs, gestures, insignias, symbols, colors or combinations of colors, clothing, and wearing apparel or accessories which are intended to publicly demonstrate an affiliation of a student with a gang.
— Examples of gang identifiers include, but are not limited to: gang colors, tattoos, bandannas,“do-rags,” sweatbands, gang clothing, jewelry, emblems, badges, symbols, signs, 5 or 6 pointed stars, arrows, pitchforks, crowns, identifying numbers (i.e. 5, 6, 13, 14, 7-4, XIII, XIV), groups of names, initials, acronyms, playboy bunny insignia, a single glove, a heart with: wings, horns, tail, or any combination thereof, drama or theater masks, praying hands, martini glass, top hat, cane dollar sign, gang expressions (i.e. “amor de rey,” “all is well,” “all is one,” “mi vida loca,” “my crazy life,” “vato loco,” “crazy one,” “Folks,” “People,” “BOS,” “MOB,” “Free Larry {Larry Hoover-founder of the Gangster Disciples}, etc.), notches in eyebrows. The administration may add to the list of identifiers at any time.
— Any combination of clothing which, upon guidance from law enforcement agencies, commonly signifies gang identity, membership, or affiliation is prohibited.
— Public may not wear, or display, any gang identifiers while on fair property, or at fair-sponsored activities.
— Wearing pants below the waist line (sagging) is not allowed.
— Belt buckles with any initials are prohibited.
— Wearing an over-sized belt with one end hanging down is prohibited.
— Gang related hats, baseball type caps, or other gang related head gear may not be worn, nor worn in a tilted or cocked position,on fair property or at fair-sponsored activities. An official fair cap (approved by the association) representing the current fair of residence may be worn.
— NOTE: Gang members will wear the hat with the brim titled or cocked to one side showing affiliation to the tilted side.This may be done in the front or the back of the head. At times the brim may be straight forward or backwards but the entire hat may be tilted to one side. They also wear stocking caps in the same way, with an emblem or a patch as a replacement for the brim of a baseball cap. It is true that this has become a fashion trend, but it is important to remember that the trend came from the “Gang Culture” and still signifies affiliation with the gang culture as the kids want to appear “Gangster” looking."

Be sure to not wear your Playboy jacket if you go.

[tlynn78]

I think it is fair to say that the typical Mexican male is probably less enlightened regarding gender roles, than, say, the faculty of Berkeley might be.

What would happen if you put an apartment of 4 young, single Hispanic women into the larger on-site apartment building with dozens of young, single Hispanic men? And maybe throw a little alcohol into the mix?

Are the men going to be frantically thumbing through their Womyn's Studies textbooks? Or are they more likely going to view, and treat, these women as "Puta."

I would not want to put my daughter into that situation.

I'm sure you spend a lot of time conversing with and studying typical Mexican males out there in the wilds of Minnesota. I do happen to live among a lot of what I presume are actual "typical Mexican males," many of whom have had too much to drink (last Saturday morning we found one passed out on the stairs leading up to our unit; he seemed very embarrassed when I woke him up and he left right away). I have fewer concerns about Mrs. SSS's and our daughter's safety than I would living in some other places. Playing into prejudices about "bad hombres" is what Donald Trump does.

HAHAHA - coming from SS "put him in a jail cell with a black man and let nature take it's course" S, this is absolutely priceless.

[Spock]

Ear>>>Just because there are problems with gangs doesn't necessarily mean that the gangs are comprised of immigrants.<<<

Yeah. Whatever. By this time, Willmar is well into the 2nd/3rd generation of the un-assimalated. I presume that the gangs are a mix of immigrants and 2nd/3rd generation.

SSS>>>I'm sure you spend a lot of time conversing with and studying typical Mexican males out there in the wilds of Minnesota.<<<

At its core, this was a response to my comment that that the typical Mexican male is likely to hold a fairly traditional view of sex roles.

In a way, I am completely flabbergasted by this. How is that even up for debate?