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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:44 am 
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jarnon wrote:
Trump should have vetted his campaign staff better.


All their reports from the FBI came back clean.

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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 10:01 am 
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Donald J. Trump wrote:
Reports are there was indeed at least one FBI representative implanted, for political purposes, into my campaign for president. It took place very early on, and long before the phony Russia Hoax became a “hot” Fake News story. If true - all time biggest political scandal!


If true, that means that the FBI had evidence of criminal ties to Russia (see: Page, Carter) well before the general public did. Some might call that good law enforcement.

But I'm sure that if every mob boss, drug kingpin, and terrorist organization that was brought down by informants had decided to use social media to plead their cases, they would have said pretty much the same thing that Trump did.

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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 10:08 am 
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BackInTex wrote:
jarnon wrote:
Trump should have vetted his campaign staff better.


All their reports from the FBI came back clean.


Either the informant witnessed criminal activity by those in the Trump campaign or he/she didn't. If he/she did, then it shouldn't matter whether the FBI or the Pope vouched for them.

And there's a cardinal rule of law enforcement. You don't out confidential informants, not if you expect to keep any confidential informants.

The Trump attempts to discredit Mueller and the FBI grow more desperate by the day as the noose tightens. Now, the word is that Paul Manafort's ex-son-in-law is copping a plea and it's not just to testify about Daddy-in-law but about multiple criminal investigations.

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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 3:00 pm 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
jarnon wrote:
Trump should have vetted his campaign staff better.


All their reports from the FBI came back clean.


Either the informant witnessed criminal activity by those in the Trump campaign or he/she didn't. If he/she did, then it shouldn't matter whether the FBI or the Pope vouched for them.

And there's a cardinal rule of law enforcement. You don't out confidential informants, not if you expect to keep any confidential informants.

The Trump attempts to discredit Mueller and the FBI grow more desperate by the day as the noose tightens. Now, the word is that Paul Manafort's ex-son-in-law is copping a plea and it's not just to testify about Daddy-in-law but about multiple criminal investigations.

Reports are that they discredited themselves and their agencies. Especially Brennan. Let's wait to see what the IG's report says.


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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 3:22 pm 
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The fact that SSS (and maybe the Bobs) is not concerned with an administration planting moles into the opposition party's campaign is disturbing to say the least. There was no collusion and they knew it. They also knew there WAS collusion from within their party's own campaign.

This is worse than Watergate, much worse. This is not the opposition campaign spying, this is the actual government. This is something you'd see in in Soviet Russia.

And yet, SSS, Bob#s, and BobJ continue to act as it it is Trump who is the criminal. He's an ass, but so far, all the criminal acts have been elsewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 3:35 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
The fact that SSS (and maybe the Bobs) is not concerned with an administration planting moles into the opposition party's campaign is disturbing to say the least.


This is not the Obama administration planting moles in the Trump campaign. This is the FBI following up on considerable evidence of criminal activity involving a foreign government. If anything, the FBI probably deserves some criticism for soft pedaling the investigation a bit in the summer of 2016 for fear that any action they took might be construed as influencing the election in Hillary's favor.

I'm sure every drug lord, mob boss, and terrorist organization that has been stung by a confidential informant feels the same way Trump and his people do now.

You can either choose to believe some or all of the multitude of information that has come forward (albeit unofficially) until now which shows numerous ties between Trump and Russia going back long before the campaign, or wait until Mueller acts. But every single thing Mueller has done so far seems to come as a big surprise to a lot of people because he believes in investigating, not playing leaking games with the press.

You are right about one thing. This is worse than Watergate, because Watergate was pure domestic politics, not collaborating with a hostile foreign government.

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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 3:43 pm 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
The fact that SSS (and maybe the Bobs) is not concerned with an administration planting moles into the opposition party's campaign is disturbing to say the least.


This is not the Obama administration planting moles in the Trump campaign. This is the FBI following up on considerable evidence of criminal activity involving a foreign government. If anything, the FBI probably deserves some criticism for soft pedaling the investigation a bit in the summer of 2016 for fear that any action they took might be construed as influencing the election in Hillary's favor.

I'm sure every drug lord, mob boss, and terrorist organization that has been stung by a confidential informant feels the same way Trump and his people do now.

You can either choose to believe some or all of the multitude of information that has come forward (albeit unofficially) until now which shows numerous ties between Trump and Russia going back long before the campaign, or wait until Mueller acts. But every single thing Mueller has done so far seems to come as a big surprise to a lot of people because he believes in investigating, not playing leaking games with the press.

You are right about one thing. This is worse than Watergate, because Watergate was pure domestic politics, not collaborating with a hostile foreign government.


Every government official who has commented on this situation has said that there is no evidence that they know of tying trump to any wrongdoing vis-a-vis russia. And these are on the record quotes, not gossip from unnamed sources who have been wrong about everything else.
You may be right about Mueller's investigation, but glory-be, you may also be wrong. You know nothing, Jon Snow. Neither do I. Let's wait until we know what he's been doing with all the time and money he's cost us before we make a decision on how it measures up to watergate. In the meantime, there's an IG report coming up that's been speculated on and might have some interesting information.


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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 3:46 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
The fact that SSS (and maybe the Bobs) is not concerned with an administration planting moles into the opposition party's campaign is disturbing to say the least.


This is not the Obama administration planting moles in the Trump campaign. This is the FBI following up on considerable evidence of criminal activity involving a foreign government. If anything, the FBI probably deserves some criticism for soft pedaling the investigation a bit in the summer of 2016 for fear that any action they took might be construed as influencing the election in Hillary's favor.

I'm sure every drug lord, mob boss, and terrorist organization that has been stung by a confidential informant feels the same way Trump and his people do now.

You can either choose to believe some or all of the multitude of information that has come forward (albeit unofficially) until now which shows numerous ties between Trump and Russia going back long before the campaign, or wait until Mueller acts. But every single thing Mueller has done so far seems to come as a big surprise to a lot of people because he believes in investigating, not playing leaking games with the press.

You are right about one thing. This is worse than Watergate, because Watergate was pure domestic politics, not collaborating with a hostile foreign government.


Every government official who has commented on this situation has said that there is no evidence that they know of tying trump to any wrongdoing vis-a-vis russia. And these are on the record quotes, not gossip from unnamed sources who have been wrong about everything else.
You may be right about Mueller's investigation, but glory-be, you may also be wrong. You know nothing, Jon Snow. Neither do I. Let's wait until we know what he's been doing with all the time and money he's cost us before we make a decision on how it measures up to watergate. In the meantime, there's an IG report coming up that's been speculated on and might have some interesting information.

You mean except for the ones who've been indicted and are copping a plea. What do you expect the others to say?

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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:01 pm 
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Bob Juch wrote:
You mean except for the ones who've been indicted and are copping a plea. What do you expect the others to say?


None of the indictments of associates of Trump or his campaign were for crimes committed during or within the campaign (the alleged reason for the investigation).

All the more reason this smells like the USSR.

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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:29 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
The fact that SSS (and maybe the Bobs) is not concerned with an administration planting moles into the opposition party's campaign is disturbing to say the least. There was no collusion and they knew it. They also knew there WAS collusion from within their party's own campaign.

This is worse than Watergate, much worse. This is not the opposition campaign spying, this is the actual government. This is something you'd see in in Soviet Russia.

And yet, SSS, Bob#s, and BobJ continue to act as it it is Trump who is the criminal. He's an ass, but so far, all the criminal acts have been elsewhere.
I see lots of credible evidence of collusion. What's publicly known makes it pretty clear that the campaign was coordinating with a hostile foreign government (Russia) to interfere with our presidential election for partisan gain. I find it implausible that this happened without Donny's personal knowledge and approval, but I wouldn't want to try to prove that in court with the evidence that's publicly known. (Things might be different if the House Intelligence Committee hadn't declined to issue a subpoena to find out whom Junior was talking to on a blocked number when the meeting was being planned.) I'm gonna guess that Robert Mueller is somewhat better informed about these matters than is the general public (at least at this point).

Where is the outrage, by the way, about Donny's obvious violations of the Emoluments Clause? Don't you care about that part of the Constitution? Where is the outrage about the Chinese government paying a $500,000,000 bribe to persuade Trump to suddenly reverse course on sanctions (based on a threat to national security) against ZTE? (Fox News hasn't been covering this story, I understand, so you may need to find it elsewhere.) --Bob

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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:31 pm 
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And by the way, we have actual evidence that Donny publicly told the Russians to release the Democrats' e-mails and we have actual evidence that after Donny made that request publicly, the Russians actually did exactly that. That sure looks like collusion to me. Where is your evidence that Donny was only joking? I don't want inferences or what you think. I want actual evidence. --Bob

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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:44 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
And by the way, we have actual evidence that Donny publicly told the Russians to release the Democrats' e-mails


If you still put that out there as something real then you are as much a talking head as Flock says you are. You will say anything, real or not, truthful or not, to push your agenda. You do not care. I've known that, but I still like seeing you prove it over and over and over.

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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:50 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
And by the way, we have actual evidence that Donny publicly told the Russians to release the Democrats' e-mails


If you still put that out there as something real then you are as much a talking head as Flock says you are. You will say anything, real or not, truthful or not, to push your agenda. You do not care. I've known that, but I still like seeing you prove it over and over and over.
Are you claiming he didn't say it, are you claiming they didn't do it, or are you claiming that you somehow know he didn't actually mean what he said? And if it's the latter, I want you to meet the same standard of proof that flock continually tries to hold me to. --Bob

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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:56 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
And by the way, we have actual evidence that Donny publicly told the Russians to release the Democrats' e-mails


If you still put that out there as something real then you are as much a talking head as Flock says you are. You will say anything, real or not, truthful or not, to push your agenda. You do not care. I've known that, but I still like seeing you prove it over and over and over.

I've called bob-tel a lot of things, but never a talking head.


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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:58 pm 
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Quote:
Where is the outrage, by the way, about Donny's obvious violations of the Emoluments Clause?


Here's my concern expressed graphically:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :P :P :P :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:00 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
And by the way, we have actual evidence that Donny publicly told the Russians to release the Democrats' e-mails and we have actual evidence that after Donny made that request publicly, the Russians actually did exactly that. That sure looks like collusion to me. Where is your evidence that Donny was only joking? I don't want inferences or what you think. I want actual evidence. --Bob



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:01 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Quote:
Where is the outrage, by the way, about Donny's obvious violations of the Emoluments Clause?


Here's my concern expressed graphically:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :P :P :P :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
So you don't care whether Donny abides by the Constitution. A portion of the Constitution, by the way, specifically designed to ensure that federal officials couldn't be bribed by foreign governments. Got it. --Bob

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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:01 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
And by the way, we have actual evidence that Donny publicly told the Russians to release the Democrats' e-mails


If you still put that out there as something real then you are as much a talking head as Flock says you are. You will say anything, real or not, truthful or not, to push your agenda. You do not care. I've known that, but I still like seeing you prove it over and over and over.
Are you claiming he didn't say it, are you claiming they didn't do it, or are you claiming that you somehow know he didn't actually mean what he said? And if it's the latter, I want you to meet the same standard of proof that flock continually tries to hold me to. --Bob


When have you ever lived up to any standard of proof? Opinions are not fact, bob-tel. I am surprised they didn't teach you that in ethical law school.


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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:02 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
And by the way, we have actual evidence that Donny publicly told the Russians to release the Democrats' e-mails and we have actual evidence that after Donny made that request publicly, the Russians actually did exactly that. That sure looks like collusion to me. Where is your evidence that Donny was only joking? I don't want inferences or what you think. I want actual evidence. --Bob



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Not interested in meeting the same standard of proof you'd like me to abide by. Got it. --Bob

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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:03 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:

If you still put that out there as something real then you are as much a talking head as Flock says you are. You will say anything, real or not, truthful or not, to push your agenda. You do not care. I've known that, but I still like seeing you prove it over and over and over.
Are you claiming he didn't say it, are you claiming they didn't do it, or are you claiming that you somehow know he didn't actually mean what he said? And if it's the latter, I want you to meet the same standard of proof that flock continually tries to hold me to. --Bob


When have you ever lived up to any standard of proof? Opinions are not fact, bob-tel. I am surprised they didn't teach you that in ethical law school.
It's not my opinion that Donny said that. It's a fact. It's not my opinion that the Russians actually did that. It's a fact. It's your opinion that Donny didn't mean what he said and that he was only joking. Prove it. --Bob

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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:09 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Are you claiming he didn't say it, are you claiming they didn't do it, or are you claiming that you somehow know he didn't actually mean what he said? And if it's the latter, I want you to meet the same standard of proof that flock continually tries to hold me to. --Bob


When have you ever lived up to any standard of proof? Opinions are not fact, bob-tel. I am surprised they didn't teach you that in ethical law school.
It's not my opinion that Donny said that. It's a fact. It's not my opinion that the Russians actually did that. It's a fact. It's your opinion that Donny didn't mean what he said and that he was only joking. Prove it. --Bob


How can anyone take you seriously? I heard that joke about hillary's emails months before trump used it. You are convinced that trump is a criminal, you just haven't found the actual crime.


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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:13 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Quote:
Where is the outrage, by the way, about Donny's obvious violations of the Emoluments Clause?


Here's my concern expressed graphically:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :P :P :P :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
So you don't care whether Donny abides by the Constitution. A portion of the Constitution, by the way, specifically designed to ensure that federal officials couldn't be bribed by foreign governments. Got it. --Bob

bob-tel, why would trump need to take bribes? He's already a billionaire, or close to it. And he donates his salary. You were talking about emoluments before he was even sworn in. You hate trump and will do anything to get him out of office and disgraced, no matter how stupid and juvenile. Got it.

Oh, and if you are so concerned about Presidents benefitting financially from holding office, I have never heard anyone explain to me how a community activist, turned state legislator, turned backbench senator turned president could accumulate a net worth of $12 million. Politics is apparently profitable.


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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:27 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:

Here's my concern expressed graphically:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :P :P :P :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
So you don't care whether Donny abides by the Constitution. A portion of the Constitution, by the way, specifically designed to ensure that federal officials couldn't be bribed by foreign governments. Got it. --Bob

bob-tel, why would trump need to take bribes? He's already a billionaire, or close to it. And he donates his salary. You were talking about emoluments before he was even sworn in. You hate trump and will do anything to get him out of office and disgraced, no matter how stupid and juvenile. Got it.

Oh, and if you are so concerned about Presidents benefitting financially from holding office, I have never heard anyone explain to me how a community activist, turned state legislator, turned backbench senator turned president could accumulate a net worth of $12 million. Politics is apparently profitable.
None of this is an answer to my question. Donny is obviously violating the Constitution. Do you care or not? --Bob

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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:32 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
A portion of the Constitution, by the way, specifically designed to ensure that federal officials couldn't be bribed by foreign governments. Got it. --Bob


You mean like a Secretary of State who's family runs a foundation, that while she was SoS the foundation received hundreds of millions of dollars in donations from foreign governnents and then those donations dried up once her position of influence ceased? Yeah, no evidence. Arms length. Got it.

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 Post subject: Re: #Towergate #FakeNews
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:40 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
And by the way, we have actual evidence that Donny publicly told the Russians to release the Democrats' e-mails and we have actual evidence that after Donny made that request publicly, the Russians actually did exactly that. That sure looks like collusion to me. Where is your evidence that Donny was only joking? I don't want inferences or what you think. I want actual evidence. --Bob


I'm confused, bob-tel. I looked around for video of trump doing what you said he did. And sure enough, I found a video of him saying “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing, I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”

Is that the one you are referring to?

If so, I think you're mistaken. What was released before the election were emails from John "PASSWORD" Podesta, not Clinton. As far as I know, no one has yet recovered the emails regarding yoga classes that Hillary so thoroughly got rid of.

But I don't follow everything down to the last detail. I could be wrong.

And by the way, what looks like proof to you is really called 'circumstantial evidence'. I don't believe that kind of stuff can be used in a real court, unless, of course, there are kangaroos running it.


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