The Great Deal Maker Strikes Out

[silverscreenselect]

Looks like President Trump and Paul Ryan are going to pull their Obamacare repeal bill from the table, despite his repeated claims that he would hold a vote for it.

Not that anyone who actually reads the news instead of merely listens to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity wasn't well aware that Trump's vaunted business acumen and deal making ability was, like most of the rest of the myth surrounding him, just that... a myth. And if the great deal maker can't persuade the members of his own party to vote for a bill that repeals something that the Republicans have been campaigning against for seven years, then one wonders just what kind of great deals he's going to strike when he goes up against England and Germany and the rest of the big boys. Although, in the case of those two countries, I guess I should say big girls, which puts Trump at even more of a disadvantage since he can't handle powerful women, as he demonstrated last week with Angela Merkel.

[ghostjmf]

For anyone who really does have higher premiums under Affordable Care, the act needs much fine tuning (we actually need a Canadian-like single payer system). *Not* repeal.

For people like me, with those near & dear to me who would have severely reduced insurance, & in one case *no* insurance that they could begin to afford without Affordable Care &/ or the Medicaid expansions that came with it in some states, I am so so happy. And relieved.

[Bob Juch]

Looks like President Trump and Paul Ryan are going to pull their Obamacare repeal bill from the table, despite his repeated claims that he would hold a vote for it.

Not that anyone who actually reads the news instead of merely listens to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity wasn't well aware that Trump's vaunted business acumen and deal making ability was, like most of the rest of the myth surrounding him, just that... a myth. And if the great deal maker can't persuade the members of his own party to vote for a bill that repeals something that the Republicans have been campaigning against for seven years, then one wonders just what kind of great deals he's going to strike when he goes up against England and Germany and the rest of the big boys. Although, in the case of those two countries, I guess I should say big girls, which puts Trump at even more of a disadvantage since he can't handle powerful women, as he demonstrated last week with Angela Merkel.

He said take it or leave it; they left it.

I best as I can tell Trumpcare was crafted without his or his team's input at all. It really should have been called Ryancare.

[flockofseagulls104]

Looks like President Trump and Paul Ryan are going to pull their Obamacare repeal bill from the table, despite his repeated claims that he would hold a vote for it.

Not that anyone who actually reads the news instead of merely listens to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity wasn't well aware that Trump's vaunted business acumen and deal making ability was, like most of the rest of the myth surrounding him, just that... a myth. And if the great deal maker can't persuade the members of his own party to vote for a bill that repeals something that the Republicans have been campaigning against for seven years, then one wonders just what kind of great deals he's going to strike when he goes up against England and Germany and the rest of the big boys. Although, in the case of those two countries, I guess I should say big girls, which puts Trump at even more of a disadvantage since he can't handle powerful women, as he demonstrated last week with Angela Merkel.

Thanks for your robo-response. For someone who has a fixation on Limbaugh and Hannity et al, your posts are always lock-step with the narrative of the left. Do some introspection, please.

I am thankful this bill did not go through. Just more government meddling in an area it has no business being in. We need a market-based healthcare system, not a government system. Unlike the media and the political establishment, I don't care what's good or not good for Trump or the repubs or the dems. I care what's good for the country and the American people. Neither this bill, nor the bill that it attempted to replace, was good for this country or its citizens.

Now the talk is about letting Obamacare implode. It seems that everyone agrees it WILL implode. Shame on the dems for giving us Obamacare, which they knew would implode, and shame on the repubs for giving us the opportunity to experience the implosion.

[Bob Juch]

[Bob78164]

Looks like President Trump and Paul Ryan are going to pull their Obamacare repeal bill from the table, despite his repeated claims that he would hold a vote for it.

Not that anyone who actually reads the news instead of merely listens to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity wasn't well aware that Trump's vaunted business acumen and deal making ability was, like most of the rest of the myth surrounding him, just that... a myth. And if the great deal maker can't persuade the members of his own party to vote for a bill that repeals something that the Republicans have been campaigning against for seven years, then one wonders just what kind of great deals he's going to strike when he goes up against England and Germany and the rest of the big boys. Although, in the case of those two countries, I guess I should say big girls, which puts Trump at even more of a disadvantage since he can't handle powerful women, as he demonstrated last week with Angela Merkel.

Thanks for your robo-response. For someone who has a fixation on Limbaugh and Hannity et al, your posts are always lock-step with the narrative of the left. Do some introspection, please.

I am thankful this bill did not go through. Just more government meddling in an area it has no business being in. We need a market-based healthcare system, not a government system. Unlike the media and the political establishment, I don't care what's good or not good for Trump or the repubs or the dems. I care what's good for the country and the American people. Neither this bill, nor the bill that it attempted to replace, was good for this country or its citizens.

Now the talk is about letting Obamacare implode. It seems that everyone agrees it WILL implode. Shame on the dems for giving us Obamacare, which they knew would implode, and shame on the repubs for giving us the opportunity to experience the implosion.

You're wrong, flock. Not even close to everyone agrees that the exchanges will implode. And since the Affordable Care Act will remain the law of the land for the foreseeable future, it's Donny's job to help them not implode. Instead, it's his official policy to push them toward implosion. His voters will pay most of the price.

Please explain to me how private health insurance adds value to the system. As is demonstrated here with Medicare, and in many European countries, there's lots of evidence that government-controlled single payer is more efficient. Why is that evidence wrong? --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

Looks like President Trump and Paul Ryan are going to pull their Obamacare repeal bill from the table, despite his repeated claims that he would hold a vote for it.

Not that anyone who actually reads the news instead of merely listens to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity wasn't well aware that Trump's vaunted business acumen and deal making ability was, like most of the rest of the myth surrounding him, just that... a myth. And if the great deal maker can't persuade the members of his own party to vote for a bill that repeals something that the Republicans have been campaigning against for seven years, then one wonders just what kind of great deals he's going to strike when he goes up against England and Germany and the rest of the big boys. Although, in the case of those two countries, I guess I should say big girls, which puts Trump at even more of a disadvantage since he can't handle powerful women, as he demonstrated last week with Angela Merkel.

Thanks for your robo-response. For someone who has a fixation on Limbaugh and Hannity et al, your posts are always lock-step with the narrative of the left. Do some introspection, please.

I am thankful this bill did not go through. Just more government meddling in an area it has no business being in. We need a market-based healthcare system, not a government system. Unlike the media and the political establishment, I don't care what's good or not good for Trump or the repubs or the dems. I care what's good for the country and the American people. Neither this bill, nor the bill that it attempted to replace, was good for this country or its citizens.

Now the talk is about letting Obamacare implode. It seems that everyone agrees it WILL implode. Shame on the dems for giving us Obamacare, which they knew would implode, and shame on the repubs for giving us the opportunity to experience the implosion.

You're wrong, flock. Not even close to everyone agrees that the exchanges will implode. And since the Affordable Care Act will remain the law of the land for the foreseeable future, it's Donny's job to help them not implode. Instead, it's his official policy to push them toward implosion. His voters will pay most of the price.

Please explain to me how private health insurance adds value to the system. As is demonstrated here with Medicare, and in many European countries, there's lots of evidence that government-controlled single payer is more efficient. Why is that evidence wrong? --Bob

Please explain to me one promise President Obama (I will refrain from demonstrating the childish disrespect for the office you constantly display) made about Obamacare that is true and wasn't a lie or just didn't happen?

If you liked your doctor or plan, could you keep them,it?
Did it reduce the deficit?
Have healthcare costs gone down or up?
etc... etc...

[silverscreenselect]

Please explain to me one promise President Obama (I will refrain from demonstrating the childish disrespect for the office you constantly display) made about Obamacare that is true and wasn't a lie or just didn't happen?

If you liked your doctor or plan, could you keep them,it?
Did it reduce the deficit?
Have healthcare costs gone down or up?
etc... etc...

Health care costs have gone up every year for the last half century, so that's not exactly a shocker. One reason they keep going up is that we've got a growing aged population as more and more baby boomers hit retirement age. As long as they stay alive, their health care costs are going up. We've also got increasing numbers of lifestyle-related diseases with increasing health costs.

Obamacare is not a perfect system, but it did reduce the number of uninsured (and would have reduced the number even more if the red states had allowed the Medicaid expansion).

But what's the most telling statistic of all is that having had seven years to plan for this day, to go along with the Presidency and both houses of Congress, the Republicans couldn't come up with a plan that even they liked, let alone the American public. Not even with Mr. Art of the Deal as their leader.

[Bob Juch]

Thanks for your robo-response. For someone who has a fixation on Limbaugh and Hannity et al, your posts are always lock-step with the narrative of the left. Do some introspection, please.

I am thankful this bill did not go through. Just more government meddling in an area it has no business being in. We need a market-based healthcare system, not a government system. Unlike the media and the political establishment, I don't care what's good or not good for Trump or the repubs or the dems. I care what's good for the country and the American people. Neither this bill, nor the bill that it attempted to replace, was good for this country or its citizens.

Now the talk is about letting Obamacare implode. It seems that everyone agrees it WILL implode. Shame on the dems for giving us Obamacare, which they knew would implode, and shame on the repubs for giving us the opportunity to experience the implosion.

You're wrong, flock. Not even close to everyone agrees that the exchanges will implode. And since the Affordable Care Act will remain the law of the land for the foreseeable future, it's Donny's job to help them not implode. Instead, it's his official policy to push them toward implosion. His voters will pay most of the price.

Please explain to me how private health insurance adds value to the system. As is demonstrated here with Medicare, and in many European countries, there's lots of evidence that government-controlled single payer is more efficient. Why is that evidence wrong? --Bob

Please explain to me one promise President Obama (I will refrain from demonstrating the childish disrespect for the office you constantly display) made about Obamacare that is true and wasn't a lie or just didn't happen?

If you liked your doctor or plan, could you keep them,it?
Did it reduce the deficit?
Have healthcare costs gone down or up?
etc... etc...

Yes, I liked my doctor and plan and kept them.

[Bob78164]

Thanks for your robo-response. For someone who has a fixation on Limbaugh and Hannity et al, your posts are always lock-step with the narrative of the left. Do some introspection, please.

I am thankful this bill did not go through. Just more government meddling in an area it has no business being in. We need a market-based healthcare system, not a government system. Unlike the media and the political establishment, I don't care what's good or not good for Trump or the repubs or the dems. I care what's good for the country and the American people. Neither this bill, nor the bill that it attempted to replace, was good for this country or its citizens.

Now the talk is about letting Obamacare implode. It seems that everyone agrees it WILL implode. Shame on the dems for giving us Obamacare, which they knew would implode, and shame on the repubs for giving us the opportunity to experience the implosion.

You're wrong, flock. Not even close to everyone agrees that the exchanges will implode. And since the Affordable Care Act will remain the law of the land for the foreseeable future, it's Donny's job to help them not implode. Instead, it's his official policy to push them toward implosion. His voters will pay most of the price.

Please explain to me how private health insurance adds value to the system. As is demonstrated here with Medicare, and in many European countries, there's lots of evidence that government-controlled single payer is more efficient. Why is that evidence wrong? --Bob

Please explain to me one promise President Obama (I will refrain from demonstrating the childish disrespect for the office you constantly display) made about Obamacare that is true and wasn't a lie or just didn't happen?

If you liked your doctor or plan, could you keep them,it?
Did it reduce the deficit?
Have healthcare costs gone down or up?
etc... etc...

You completely ignored my question. I'll ask it again. And I'll keep asking it until you either answer it or admit that you can't.

Please explain to me how private health insurance adds value to the system. As is demonstrated here with Medicare, and in many European countries, there's lots of evidence that government-controlled single payer is more efficient. Why is that evidence wrong? --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

You're wrong, flock. Not even close to everyone agrees that the exchanges will implode. And since the Affordable Care Act will remain the law of the land for the foreseeable future, it's Donny's job to help them not implode. Instead, it's his official policy to push them toward implosion. His voters will pay most of the price.

Please explain to me how private health insurance adds value to the system. As is demonstrated here with Medicare, and in many European countries, there's lots of evidence that government-controlled single payer is more efficient. Why is that evidence wrong? --Bob

Please explain to me one promise President Obama (I will refrain from demonstrating the childish disrespect for the office you constantly display) made about Obamacare that is true and wasn't a lie or just didn't happen?

If you liked your doctor or plan, could you keep them,it?
Did it reduce the deficit?
Have healthcare costs gone down or up?
etc... etc...

You completely ignored my question. I'll ask it again. And I'll keep asking it until you either answer it or admit that you can't.

Please explain to me how private health insurance adds value to the system. As is demonstrated here with Medicare, and in many European countries, there's lots of evidence that government-controlled single payer is more efficient. Why is that evidence wrong? --Bob

No sir. You answer my question. Did President Obama lie about the results of his precious bill that he rammed through Congress without support from anyone but his political party or not? When you answer that question honestly and without evasion, I will give you the answer to your question.

[Bob78164]

You completely ignored my question. I'll ask it again. And I'll keep asking it until you either answer it or admit that you can't.

Please explain to me how private health insurance adds value to the system. As is demonstrated here with Medicare, and in many European countries, there's lots of evidence that government-controlled single payer is more efficient. Why is that evidence wrong? --Bob

No sir.

Got it. You admit that private health insurance does not add value to the system, and that public-payer plans such as Medicare are inherently more efficient, as demonstrated by Medicare and several European systems. Thank you for this concession. --Bob

[jarnon]

Please explain to me one promise President Obama (I will refrain from demonstrating the childish disrespect for the office you constantly display) made about Obamacare that is true and wasn't a lie or just didn't happen?

If you liked your doctor or plan, could you keep them?
Did it reduce the deficit?
Have healthcare costs gone down or up?
etc... etc...

These promises were made when Obama was selling the ACA, in response to opponents' dire predictions that the government is taking over health care, the costs would be huge, and so on.

Most people who like their doctors and plans have kept them. And patients and doctors have more control over health decisions than before, not less as opponents threatened. When insurers force patients to change plans, they usually blame Obamacare. In some cases that's true, but often it's just an excuse.

The deficit is lower than during the recession, but still high. Obamacare contains a lot of government spending on premium subsidies and Medicaid, of course, but it reduced costs in other areas. Economists disagree on the ACA's net effect on the deficit.

Health care costs have always gone up, but most experts say that Obamacare has dampened the trend.

So I'd call Obama's promises normal political spin, not 100% accurate but not lies.

(I expect the partisans to ignore this post because it's an attempt at a reasoned response, not flame throwing.)

[flockofseagulls104]

You completely ignored my question. I'll ask it again. And I'll keep asking it until you either answer it or admit that you can't.

Please explain to me how private health insurance adds value to the system. As is demonstrated here with Medicare, and in many European countries, there's lots of evidence that government-controlled single payer is more efficient. Why is that evidence wrong? --Bob

No sir.

Got it. You admit that private health insurance does not add value to the system, and that public-payer plans such as Medicare are inherently more efficient, as demonstrated by Medicare and several European systems. Thank you for this concession. --Bob

Evasion.

[Bob78164]

Please explain to me one promise President Obama (I will refrain from demonstrating the childish disrespect for the office you constantly display) made about Obamacare that is true and wasn't a lie or just didn't happen?

If you liked your doctor or plan, could you keep them?
Did it reduce the deficit?
Have healthcare costs gone down or up?
etc... etc...

These promises were made when Obama was selling the ACA, in response to opponents' dire predictions that the government is taking over health care, the costs would be huge, and so on.

Most people who like their doctors and plans have kept them. And patients and doctors have more control over health decisions than before, not less as opponents threatened. When insurers force patients to change plans, they usually blame Obamacare. In some cases that's true, but often it's just an excuse.

The deficit is lower than during the recession, but still high. Obamacare contains a lot of government spending on premium subsidies and Medicaid, of course, but it reduced costs in other areas. Economists disagree on the ACA's net effect on the deficit.

Health care costs have always gone up, but most experts say that Obamacare has dampened the trend.

So I'd call Obama's promises normal political spin, not 100% accurate but not lies.

(I expect the partisans to ignore this post because it's an attempt at a reasoned response, not flame throwing.)

An no one has to worry any more about lifetime limits on insurance, even though the last version of the Republicans' bill would have ended that provision. Kids get to stay on their parents' plan until age 26, another casualty of the Republicans' plan. And of course, pre-existing conditions no longer bar coverage.

That's why the Affordable Care Act now enjoys majority support among the American population. The Republicans finally let the American people see the alternative, and they rejected it forcefully. --Bob

[earendel]

An no one has to worry any more about lifetime limits on insurance, even though the last version of the Republicans' bill would have ended that provision. Kids get to stay on their parents' plan until age 26, another casualty of the Republicans' plan. And of course, pre-existing conditions no longer bar coverage.

Actually, to be fair, the Republican plan kept the provision that children could remain on their parents' insurance until age 26.

[flockofseagulls104]

Please explain to me one promise President Obama (I will refrain from demonstrating the childish disrespect for the office you constantly display) made about Obamacare that is true and wasn't a lie or just didn't happen?

If you liked your doctor or plan, could you keep them?
Did it reduce the deficit?
Have healthcare costs gone down or up?
etc... etc...

These promises were made when Obama was selling the ACA, in response to opponents' dire predictions that the government is taking over health care, the costs would be huge, and so on.

Most people who like their doctors and plans have kept them. And patients and doctors have more control over health decisions than before, not less as opponents threatened. When insurers force patients to change plans, they usually blame Obamacare. In some cases that's true, but often it's just an excuse.

The deficit is lower than during the recession, but still high. Obamacare contains a lot of government spending on premium subsidies and Medicaid, of course, but it reduced costs in other areas. Economists disagree on the ACA's net effect on the deficit.

Health care costs have always gone up, but most experts say that Obamacare has dampened the trend.

So I'd call Obama's promises normal political spin, not 100% accurate but not lies.

(I expect the partisans to ignore this post because it's an attempt at a reasoned response, not flame throwing.)

Respectfully, I would say your entire answer is political spin. That you accept political spin as 'normal' says a lot.

[flockofseagulls104]

Please explain to me one promise President Obama (I will refrain from demonstrating the childish disrespect for the office you constantly display) made about Obamacare that is true and wasn't a lie or just didn't happen?

If you liked your doctor or plan, could you keep them?
Did it reduce the deficit?
Have healthcare costs gone down or up?
etc... etc...

These promises were made when Obama was selling the ACA, in response to opponents' dire predictions that the government is taking over health care, the costs would be huge, and so on.

Most people who like their doctors and plans have kept them. And patients and doctors have more control over health decisions than before, not less as opponents threatened. When insurers force patients to change plans, they usually blame Obamacare. In some cases that's true, but often it's just an excuse.

The deficit is lower than during the recession, but still high. Obamacare contains a lot of government spending on premium subsidies and Medicaid, of course, but it reduced costs in other areas. Economists disagree on the ACA's net effect on the deficit.

Health care costs have always gone up, but most experts say that Obamacare has dampened the trend.

So I'd call Obama's promises normal political spin, not 100% accurate but not lies.

(I expect the partisans to ignore this post because it's an attempt at a reasoned response, not flame throwing.)

An no one has to worry any more about lifetime limits on insurance, even though the last version of the Republicans' bill would have ended that provision. Kids get to stay on their parents' plan until age 26, another casualty of the Republicans' plan. And of course, pre-existing conditions no longer bar coverage.

That's why the Affordable Care Act now enjoys majority support among the American population. The Republicans finally let the American people see the alternative, and they rejected it forcefully. --Bob

The dems might as well have put in that every person in the country gets their own doctor for free. It wouldn't make the program any less sustainable, just make it's implosion a little earlier.

[Bob78164]

An no one has to worry any more about lifetime limits on insurance, even though the last version of the Republicans' bill would have ended that provision. Kids get to stay on their parents' plan until age 26, another casualty of the Republicans' plan. And of course, pre-existing conditions no longer bar coverage.

Actually, to be fair, the Republican plan kept the provision that children could remain on their parents' insurance until age 26.

I thought that was one of the provisions stripped from the final version that got pulled, but they allowed the public so little time to consider and opine on it that I could be mistaken. --Bob

[Bob78164]

Please explain to me one promise President Obama (I will refrain from demonstrating the childish disrespect for the office you constantly display) made about Obamacare that is true and wasn't a lie or just didn't happen?

If you liked your doctor or plan, could you keep them?
Did it reduce the deficit?
Have healthcare costs gone down or up?
etc... etc...

These promises were made when Obama was selling the ACA, in response to opponents' dire predictions that the government is taking over health care, the costs would be huge, and so on.

Most people who like their doctors and plans have kept them. And patients and doctors have more control over health decisions than before, not less as opponents threatened. When insurers force patients to change plans, they usually blame Obamacare. In some cases that's true, but often it's just an excuse.

The deficit is lower than during the recession, but still high. Obamacare contains a lot of government spending on premium subsidies and Medicaid, of course, but it reduced costs in other areas. Economists disagree on the ACA's net effect on the deficit.

Health care costs have always gone up, but most experts say that Obamacare has dampened the trend.

So I'd call Obama's promises normal political spin, not 100% accurate but not lies.

(I expect the partisans to ignore this post because it's an attempt at a reasoned response, not flame throwing.)

Respectfully, I would say your entire answer is political spin. That you accept political spin as 'normal' says a lot.

That's funny considering that you've admitted that private insurance does not add any value to the system and that Medicare-for-all would be both cheaper and more cost-efficient. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

These promises were made when Obama was selling the ACA, in response to opponents' dire predictions that the government is taking over health care, the costs would be huge, and so on.

Most people who like their doctors and plans have kept them. And patients and doctors have more control over health decisions than before, not less as opponents threatened. When insurers force patients to change plans, they usually blame Obamacare. In some cases that's true, but often it's just an excuse.

The deficit is lower than during the recession, but still high. Obamacare contains a lot of government spending on premium subsidies and Medicaid, of course, but it reduced costs in other areas. Economists disagree on the ACA's net effect on the deficit.

Health care costs have always gone up, but most experts say that Obamacare has dampened the trend.

So I'd call Obama's promises normal political spin, not 100% accurate but not lies.

(I expect the partisans to ignore this post because it's an attempt at a reasoned response, not flame throwing.)

Respectfully, I would say your entire answer is political spin. That you accept political spin as 'normal' says a lot.

That's funny considering that you've admitted that private insurance does not add any value to the system and that Medicare-for-all would be both cheaper and more cost-efficient. --Bob

Bob, I've said nothing of the sort. Play your games somewhere else.

[flockofseagulls104]

Respectfully, I would say your entire answer is political spin. That you accept political spin as 'normal' says a lot.

That's funny considering that you've admitted that private insurance does not add any value to the system and that Medicare-for-all would be both cheaper and more cost-efficient. --Bob

Bob, I've said nothing of the sort. Play your games somewhere else.

I am not going to give you an answer to your question until YOU respond, without evasion, to mine.

and none of ths 'Most experts say....' crap. For every one of your experts, I can cite others with the exact opposite opinion. Did he lie, (or mislead, if you prefer) in trying to sell this program to the American public?

[jarnon]

Did he lie, (or mislead, if you prefer) in trying to sell this program to the American public?

Pres. Obama didn't lie about what was written in the ACA, as many opponents did.

He made predictions about the benefits that Obamacare would bring; many of them came true, but some were unreasonably optimistic. I don't think he was intentionally deceiving the public.

[flockofseagulls104]

Did he lie, (or mislead, if you prefer) in trying to sell this program to the American public?

Pres. Obama didn't lie about what was written in the ACA, as many opponents did.

He made predictions about the benefits that Obamacare would bring; many of them came true, but some were unreasonably optimistic. I don't think he was intentionally deceiving the public.

Apply that scenario to President Trump. How do you think the media would present it differently?

[Bob Juch]

Did he lie, (or mislead, if you prefer) in trying to sell this program to the American public?

Pres. Obama didn't lie about what was written in the ACA, as many opponents did.

He made predictions about the benefits that Obamacare would bring; many of them came true, but some were unreasonably optimistic. I don't think he was intentionally deceiving the public.

Apply that scenario to President Trump. How do you think the media would present it differently?

Trump had lied over 500 times since he took office.