Prayer for Senator McCain

[BackInTex]

Here's Senator McCain's press release on the domestic terrorist attack today in Charlottesville, Virginia. --Bob

There was no domestic terrorist attack. As much as you wish there were.

[silverscreenselect]

There was no domestic terrorist attack. As much as you wish there were.

Well, according to the Patriot Act:

A person engages in domestic terrorism if they do an act ""dangerous to human life"" that is a violation of the criminal laws of a state or the United States, if the act appears to be intended to: (i) intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping. Additionally, the acts have to occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States and if they do not, may be regarded as international terrorism.

https://www.aclu.org/other/how-usa-patr ... -terrorism

Let's see:

Primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States -- Check
Intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population -- Check

It probably wasn't as well planned as some terrorist attacks, but then again some of these other attacks seem fairly spur-of-the-moment as well:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/14/europe/ni ... index.html

The only difference between this guy and the French terrorist is that this guy wasn't as good at what he was trying to do.

[mrkelley23]

Here's Senator McCain's press release on the domestic terrorist attack today in Charlottesville, Virginia. --Bob

There was no domestic terrorist attack. As much as you wish there were.

Sens. Cory Gardner, Ted Cruz, and Orrin Hatch all appear to disagree with you. But they're all liberal snowflakes, so what do they know?

[Bob78164]

Here's Senator McCain's press release on the domestic terrorist attack today in Charlottesville, Virginia. --Bob

There was no domestic terrorist attack. As much as you wish there were.

A native-born United States citizen (i.e., domestic) drove a car into a crowd of pedestrians in order to hurt them so he could advance his political views. That seems to me a textbook definition of terrorist attack. Unless the driver's skin color is a necessary element. --Bob

[BackInTex]

Intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population -- Check

This is where we probably disagree. Neither of us know the motivation, but I believe the guy never planned to do this. It was a spur of the moment action done in frustration against those preventing him and his group from executing their protest.

I don't believe it qualifies as a hate crime either (though admittedly I don't believe in hate crime as a construct in our legal system). The guy ran over the people as a result of their actions, that day, against him and his group, not because of who they are or his thoughts or beliefs.

I'm not defending what he did, but it was not terrorism.

Sens. Cory Gardner, Ted Cruz, and Orrin Hatch all appear to disagree with you. But they're all liberal snowflakes, so what do they know?

Politicians say a lot of things to win votes, win support, avoid confrontation, etc.

[BackInTex]

A native-born United States citizen (i.e., domestic) drove a car into a crowd of pedestrians in order to hurt them so he could advance his political views.

I do not believe he did it to advance his political views, though I will admit, I do not know what motivated him to do it at that instance.

[flockofseagulls104]

White supremacists are the scum of the earth, and if this incident is truly how the media is portraying it, it is to be condemned. The media has, however, by their own actions, made themselves less than credible. Where was the outcry for calling the rioters in Berkeley or the ones in Washington DC the day of trump's inauguration what they were? Especially the ones that wear black masks? They are left wing terrorists.

The actions of these scumbags and what they believe in are not in anyway reflective of 99.9% of republicans or conservatives. I don't know why I have to even write that. But it seems that it needs to be said for the benefit of some people.

[Bob78164]

White supremacists are the scum of the earth, and if this incident is truly how the media is portraying it, it is to be condemned. The media has, however, by their own actions, made themselves less than credible. Where was the outcry for calling the rioters in Berkeley or the ones in Washington DC the day of trump's inauguration what they were? Especially the ones that wear black masks? They are left wing terrorists.

The actions of these scumbags and what they believe in are not in anyway reflective of 99.9% of republicans or conservatives. I don't know why I have to even write that. But it seems that it needs to be said for the benefit of some people.

The issue isn't whether they're representative of anyone. The issue (for me) is the White House's clear reluctance to condemn their bigotry in unmistakable terms. Compare Donny's response to that of Senator Cruz, Senator Hatch, Senator Gardner, or Senator McCain. --Bob

[Bob78164]

Neither of us know the motivation, but I believe the guy never planned to do this. It was a spur of the moment action done in frustration against those preventing him and his group from executing their protest.

They were counterdemonstrating, and I have seen no reports anywhere that the counterdemonstrators were in anyway interfering with the white supremecists' exercise of their First Amendment rights. If he was "frustrat[ed]," then I think the conclusion is inescapable that the source of his frustration was the views of the counterdemonstrators, not their actions. And even if it were their actions in daring to counterdemonstrate, as far as I'm concerned it's still terrorism. That's certainly how it would have been portrayed by the White House if the politics had been reversed. --Bob

[Bob Juch]

White supremacists are the scum of the earth, and if this incident is truly how the media is portraying it, it is to be condemned. The media has, however, by their own actions, made themselves less than credible. Where was the outcry for calling the rioters in Berkeley or the ones in Washington DC the day of trump's inauguration what they were? Especially the ones that wear black masks? They are left wing terrorists.

The actions of these scumbags and what they believe in are not in anyway reflective of 99.9% of republicans or conservatives. I don't know why I have to even write that. But it seems that it needs to be said for the benefit of some people.

It has been claimed that the black-masked thugs in Berkeley were false-flag phoneys. I'm not in a position to judge.

[Pastor Fireball]

Here's Senator McCain's press release on the domestic terrorist attack today in Charlottesville, Virginia. --Bob

...

A native-born United States citizen (i.e., domestic) drove a car into a crowd of pedestrians in order to hurt them so he could advance his political views. That seems to me a textbook definition of terrorist attack. Unless the driver's skin color is a necessary element. --Bob

...

The issue isn't whether they're representative of anyone. The issue (for me) is the White House's clear reluctance to condemn their bigotry in unmistakable terms. Compare Donny's response to that of Senator Cruz, Senator Hatch, Senator Gardner, or Senator McCain. --Bob

...

They were counterdemonstrating, and I have seen no reports anywhere that the counterdemonstrators were in anyway interfering with the white supremecists' exercise of their First Amendment rights. If he was "frustrat[ed]," then I think the conclusion is inescapable that the source of his frustration was the views of the counterdemonstrators, not their actions. And even if it were their actions in daring to counterdemonstrate, as far as I'm concerned it's still terrorism. That's certainly how it would have been portrayed by the White House if the politics had been reversed. --Bob

It is highly hypocritical of you to condemn this domestic terrorist act after you spent the past two months on this very forum enabling bigotry and persecution. Wait, strike that. Not only did you enable it, but you verbally encouraged it. So no, Bob. You, of all people, do not get to complain about hatred by others. You already had your chances for unity and you blew them. At least BiT and Flock have been consistent over the past 15 years on the Boreds in their support of lying racists and in their disrespect toward people who are not like they are.

[silverscreenselect]

The guy ran over the people as a result of their actions, that day, against him and his group, not because of who they are or his thoughts or beliefs.

"Who they are" were people whose ideology differed from his own and were protesting it. At one point, he was in the rally, and he left, got into his car, and drove the middle of it. It was only the presence of other cars in front of his that prevented the damage and injury from being much worse.

[silverscreenselect]

White supremacists are the scum of the earth, and if this incident is truly how the media is portraying it, it is to be condemned. The media has, however, by their own actions, made themselves less than credible.

So, apparently the left wing media faked the video, faked the arrest, and faked the interviews with people who knew this guy's neo-Nazi tendencies from way back. Got it.

[BackInTex]

The guy ran over the people as a result of their actions, that day, against him and his group, not because of who they are or his thoughts or beliefs.

"Who they are" were people whose ideology differed from his own and were protesting it. At one point, he was in the rally, and he left, got into his car, and drove the middle of it. It was only the presence of other cars in front of his that prevented the damage and injury from being much worse.

Still not terrorism. I agree with the 2nd degree murder charge. Sounds like you do too.

[flockofseagulls104]

At least BiT and Flock have been consistent over the past 15 years on the Boreds in their support of lying racists and in their disrespect toward people who are not like they are.

Example of left wing hatred. I'm sure there were many of these types in the 'counter-demonstration'. And as much as the media blames trump for not 'specifically' condemning white supremacists, they don't get a pass for helping to create someone like this.

[BackInTex]

At least BiT and Flock have been consistent over the past 15 years on the Boreds in their support of lying racists and in their disrespect toward people who are not like they are.

Example of left wing hatred. I'm sure there were many of these types in the 'counter-demonstration'. And as much as the media blames trump for not 'specifically' condemning white supremacists, they don't get a pass for helping to create someone like this.

Nope, just hatred. Someone who hates the world because they are not getting the trophy.

[jarnon]

Still not terrorism. I agree with the 2nd degree murder charge. Sounds like you do too.

Sessions defends Trump's comments on Charlottesville, says car ramming fits definition of domestic terror

Now Sessions fails two of BiT's criteria: he's a politician who's been accused of racism himself in the past, and is eager to take a stand against white supremacy; and he's a prosecutor who wants to throw the book at the killer. OTOH, he has information on the killer's actions, background and motives that BiT doesn't.

[BackInTex]

Now Sessions fails two of BiT's criteria: he's a politician who's been accused of racism himself in the past, and is eager to take a stand against white supremacy; and he's a prosecutor who wants to throw the book at the killer. OTOH, he has information on the killer's actions, background and motives that BiT doesn't.

I'm sure he'll have a press conference with the requisite black man, or woman, standing beside or behind him. You may buy it. I won't.

Did I ever indicate I didn't want to prosecute the guy to the fullest extent of the law? Max sentence and all, I'm in. I'm in even for beyond the max, as I think this should be a capital offense.

But we need to be honest about the crime committed. The everything is terrorism mentality is akin to everyone gets a trophy mentality. Its a bandwagon to make everyone feels good about themselves.

[silverscreenselect]

The everything is terrorism mentality is akin to everyone gets a trophy mentality. Its a bandwagon to make everyone feels good about themselves.

Then what is the difference between what this guy did and what the truck driver in France did?

[BackInTex]

The everything is terrorism mentality is akin to everyone gets a trophy mentality. Its a bandwagon to make everyone feels good about themselves.

Then what is the difference between what this guy did and what the truck driver in France did?

Attacker in Nice plotted for months with 'accomplices,'

As far as we know, this attack was not planned, else the charge would be 1st Degree Murder. It was a crime of opportunity and rage (you can say hate and I won't argue with you, but he did not target non-whites, he targeted anti-protesters).

[BackInTex]

Well, according to the Patriot Act:

A person engages in domestic terrorism if they do an act ""dangerous to human life"" that is a violation of the criminal laws of a state or the United States, if the act appears to be intended to: (i) intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping. Additionally, the acts have to occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States and if they do not, may be regarded as international terrorism.

Standing in the middle of a freeway is "dangerous to human life"
Standing in the middle of a freeway is a violation of the criminal laws of all states

Most protesters standing in the middle of a freeway are doing so to coerce a civilian population or influence the policy of a government
Most US based protesters standing in the middle of a freeway do so on freeways within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States

4 of 4

Yet I've never seen anyone, including Trump, Cruz, Sessions, SSS, or Bob#s call those protests terrorism. What am I missing?

[Bob78164]

The everything is terrorism mentality is akin to everyone gets a trophy mentality. Its a bandwagon to make everyone feels good about themselves.

Then what is the difference between what this guy did and what the truck driver in France did?

Attacker in Nice plotted for months with 'accomplices,'

As far as we know, this attack was not planned, else the charge would be 1st Degree Murder. It was a crime of opportunity and rage (you can say hate and I won't argue with you, but he did not target non-whites, he targeted anti-protesters).

It doesn't need to be premeditated to be an act of terrorism. And the relevant fact (to me) is that he targeted political opponents because of their politics. --Bob

[jarnon]

Did I ever indicate I didn't want to prosecute the guy to the fullest extent of the law? Max sentence and all, I'm in. I'm in even for beyond the max, as I think this should be a capital offense.

If he's convicted of terrorism, they can lock him up in Supermax, which is some ways is worse than any Virginia prison, Guantánamo Bay and even death.

[BackInTex]

And the relevant fact (to me) is that he targeted political opponents because of their politics. --Bob

Your definition of fact is way different than mine. It explains a lot.

[silverscreenselect]

Well, according to the Patriot Act:

A person engages in domestic terrorism if they do an act ""dangerous to human life"" that is a violation of the criminal laws of a state or the United States, if the act appears to be intended to: (i) intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping. Additionally, the acts have to occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States and if they do not, may be regarded as international terrorism.

Standing in the middle of a freeway is "dangerous to human life"
Standing in the middle of a freeway is a violation of the criminal laws of all states

Most protesters standing in the middle of a freeway are doing so to coerce a civilian population or influence the policy of a government
Most US based protesters standing in the middle of a freeway do so on freeways within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States

4 of 4

Yet I've never seen anyone, including Trump, Cruz, Sessions, SSS, or Bob#s call those protests terrorism. What am I missing?

You miss the elements of coercion and intimidation.

Coercion: "the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats."
Intimidation: "the action of intimidating someone."
Intimidate: "frighten or overawe (someone), especially in order to make them do what one wants"