One Flag Over Texas?
- earendel
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One Flag Over Texas?
So I read in the <*cough*>FAKE NEWS USA Today that Six Flags Over Texas is no longer going to fly the 6 flags that flew over Texas during its lifetime (Spain, Mexico, Britain, France, Confederacy, USA) but will fly only American flags. I presume the same will apply to any of the other Six Flags theme parks that included the Confederacy. It's been over 40 years since I went to Six Flags Over Texas; didn't one of the theme park sections have a "Confederacy" theme? Not slavery, but antebellum costumed performers and architecture? Or rides with a Confederate name?
"Elen sila lumenn omentielvo...A star shines on the hour of our meeting."
- BackInTex
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
They should take those flags down. It never happened. None of it did.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
- elwoodblues
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
I hate the argument that we are "erasing history." I don't know of anyone who learned history exclusively from flags or statues.
- BackInTex
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
You just contradicted yourself. You admit that history is learned from numerous sources, including flags and statues.elwoodblues wrote:I hate the argument that we are "erasing history." I don't know of anyone who learned history exclusively from flags or statues.
Ask yourself, how many people know that the land that is Texas had been part of Spain solely because of Six Flags. I'd wager most. Or that that that some of the same land once belonged to France. Same. Or even that Texas used to be its own country.
You can hate the argument, but it is a valid one. But I agree, we are not "erasing" history, but hiding it.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
- ne1410s
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
Just a matter of time before they begin taking down the Hitler and Tojo statues. I may have forgotten some other enemies of the USA. Sad.
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- flockofseagulls104
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton
- BackInTex
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
When did they serve in the USA military? I must have slept that day in history class.ne1410s wrote:Just a matter of time before they begin taking down the Hitler and Tojo statues. I may have forgotten some other enemies of the USA. Sad.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
- Bob78164
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
Are you saying that we should build monuments honoring Joe McCarthy to be sure we don't forget him? Should we name schools after Adolf Hitler to preserve the memory of his acts?BackInTex wrote:You just contradicted yourself. You admit that history is learned from numerous sources, including flags and statues.elwoodblues wrote:I hate the argument that we are "erasing history." I don't know of anyone who learned history exclusively from flags or statues.
Ask yourself, how many people know that the land that is Texas had been part of Spain solely because of Six Flags. I'd wager most. Or that that that some of the same land once belonged to France. Same. Or even that Texas used to be its own country.
You can hate the argument, but it is a valid one. But I agree, we are not "erasing" history, but hiding it.
Of course not. These monuments aren't intended merely to educate. They're intended to honor their subjects. I, for one, refuse to believe that the American people are so stupid that the only way they can remember the Confederacy's important figures is by relying on monuments expressly intended to honor them and their cause. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
We would certainly never put in many new confederate statues at this point in time, however, it seems a little "Talibanesque" to be removing them now.Bob78164 wrote:Are you saying that we should build monuments honoring Joe McCarthy to be sure we don't forget him? Should we name schools after Adolf Hitler to preserve the memory of his acts?BackInTex wrote:You just contradicted yourself. You admit that history is learned from numerous sources, including flags and statues.elwoodblues wrote:I hate the argument that we are "erasing history." I don't know of anyone who learned history exclusively from flags or statues.
Ask yourself, how many people know that the land that is Texas had been part of Spain solely because of Six Flags. I'd wager most. Or that that that some of the same land once belonged to France. Same. Or even that Texas used to be its own country.
You can hate the argument, but it is a valid one. But I agree, we are not "erasing" history, but hiding it.
Of course not. These monuments aren't intended merely to educate. They're intended to honor their subjects. I, for one, refuse to believe that the American people are so stupid that the only way they can remember the Confederacy's important figures is by relying on monuments expressly intended to honor them and their cause. --Bob
There are advocates for removing Grant's Tomb from NYC because of an anti-semitic order he gave during the Civil War. The statue of Columbus in NYC is also at risk. Some creep just vandalized a 225-year old statue of Columbus in Baltimore.
When and where does this stop? Does it end with Confederate statues? How about monuments on the battlefields?
If Grant and Columbus go, can we get rid of FDR's monument because of the internment of the Japanese?
- BackInTex
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
And MLK. Communist homophobe. A lot of streets and schools need to have their names changed.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
- Bob Juch
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
When did most Confederates serve in the USA military? Those who did became traitors.BackInTex wrote:When did they serve in the USA military? I must have slept that day in history class.ne1410s wrote:Just a matter of time before they begin taking down the Hitler and Tojo statues. I may have forgotten some other enemies of the USA. Sad.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- BackInTex
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
Most having memorials and statues dedicated to them were well experienced and decorated US military, many having attended West Point.Bob Juch wrote: When did most Confederates serve in the USA military?
How so? During the time it really was a United States (plural). Loyalty was to one's state, not to the federation. One cannot be a traitor when their loyalty is consistent.Bob Juch wrote:Those who did became traitors.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
- silverscreenselect
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
I actually agree with BiT for the most part here. The issue of whether we really are a United States is settled now, but it wasn't a settled issue in 1861. There was a considerable groundswell of opinion that the USA was like the European Union and that states could come and go. Look at the 20th century. When I was in school, the maps of Europe had Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. No more.BackInTex wrote: How so? During the time it really was a United States (plural). Loyalty was to one's state, not to the federation. One cannot be a traitor when their loyalty is consistent.
Of course, slavery was the issue that drove the Confederate states to secede, and their leaders made no bones about it that their new nation was dedicated to the preservation of slavery. The legality of that decision was open to question in 1861, but you can't fault the vast bulk of Confederate soldiers for obeying what they had every reason to believe were lawful orders to serve in the military.
But I find it ironic that those who claim that they are trying to preserve history are actually trying to preserve only a fraction of it and ignore the rest in an effort to give Lee, Davis, et al. a completely undeserved status. These statues weren't erected in the 1860s and 70s to honor or memorialize the southern leaders. They were put up in the 20th century as a monument to the Jim Crow era and the doctrine of white supremacy that was then flourishing under the color of "legal" segregation.
There is nothing to honor about the Confederacy other than the bravery of a lot of men who served and many of whom died. You can honor that by appropriate markers on battlefields and cemeteries. The Confederacy killed off much of an entire generation of Southern men and destroyed much of the region's infrastructure, putting it even farther behind the north. It was an utter failure politically, economically, legally, morally, and, within four years, militarily. There is certainly nothing to honor about men whose every public writing and utterance shows their complete dedication to the cause of perpetuating slavery as a legal and desirable institution in those states.
The references to Hitler and Tojo are quite apt. We are now about the same length of time after World War II as the era in which the southern statues were erected, but there is absolutely no movement in either Germany or Japan to put up statues of Nazi or Japanese leaders as a tribute or commemoration of the country itself. There are memorials at Hiroshima for the victims, and there are memorials at concentration camps but the people of Germany and Japan have made a conscious decision to put that era behind them and not to stir up old wounds.
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- themanintheseersuckersuit
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
They are still fond of Alexander in Greece, Napoleon in France, and Kamehameha I in Hawaii.
Suitguy is not bitter.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
- BackInTex
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
Um, that would be the Union soldiers and their immoral leaders, one who was elected president and is still on our currency, that did that.silverscreenselect wrote:The Confederacy killed off much of an entire generation of Southern men and destroyed much of the region's infrastructure, putting it even farther behind the north.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
- Billy Bored Thornton
- Merry Man
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
My grandpappy called it by it's correct name:
Spoiler
The War of Northern Aggression
What the f$%$ck are you looking at?
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
One thing that we all should be able to agree on is how to handle Democrat Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia. The man was a TPTB in the Ku Klux Klan within living memory.
I realize that everything in West Virginia is named for him but all those names should be changed and any statues of him should be removed.
Any and all Democrat office holders and so forth (Ahem, Hillary) should be asked to disavow their interactions and so forth with him.
This one is easy for everybody.
I realize that everything in West Virginia is named for him but all those names should be changed and any statues of him should be removed.
Any and all Democrat office holders and so forth (Ahem, Hillary) should be asked to disavow their interactions and so forth with him.
This one is easy for everybody.
- Bob78164
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
Robert Byrd is commemorated is West Virginia despite his history with the KKK. He later called that membership "the greatest mistake I ever made" and renounced his racist past. He did much more with his life afterward, much of it to the benefit of the entire country.Spock wrote:One thing that we all should be able to agree on is how to handle Democrat Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia. The man was a TPTB in the Ku Klux Klan within living memory.
I realize that everything in West Virginia is named for him but all those names should be changed and any statues of him should be removed.
Any and all Democrat office holders and so forth (Ahem, Hillary) should be asked to disavow their interactions and so forth with him.
This one is easy for everybody.
Leaders of the Confederacy, on the other hand, are venerated because of their efforts to preserve the rights of their fellow Southerners to continue to hold other human beings in chattel servitude. Or is there something else in the backgrounds of, say, Jefferson Davis and Stonewall Jackson that made them worthy of receiving honor and respect in public fora? --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
- Estonut
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
Did you intentionally omit General Lee?Bob78164 wrote:Leaders of the Confederacy, on the other hand, are venerated because of their efforts to preserve the rights of their fellow Southerners to continue to hold other human beings in chattel servitude. Or is there something else in the backgrounds of, say, Jefferson Davis and Stonewall Jackson that made them worthy of receiving honor and respect in public fora?
A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
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- BackInTex
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
Probably feels sorry for him since he was pulled from the UVA broadcast.Estonut wrote:Did you intentionally omit General Lee?Bob78164 wrote:Leaders of the Confederacy, on the other hand, are venerated because of their efforts to preserve the rights of their fellow Southerners to continue to hold other human beings in chattel servitude. Or is there something else in the backgrounds of, say, Jefferson Davis and Stonewall Jackson that made them worthy of receiving honor and respect in public fora?
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
- tlynn78
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Re: One Flag Over Texas?
On a side note, I was reading a book not long ago, and had to stop to lmao when the author referenced "Hillary Rodham Clinton High School."Bob78164 wrote:Are you saying that we should build monuments honoring Joe McCarthy to be sure we don't forget him? Should we name schools after Adolf Hitler to preserve the memory of his acts?BackInTex wrote:You just contradicted yourself. You admit that history is learned from numerous sources, including flags and statues.elwoodblues wrote:I hate the argument that we are "erasing history." I don't know of anyone who learned history exclusively from flags or statues.
Ask yourself, how many people know that the land that is Texas had been part of Spain solely because of Six Flags. I'd wager most. Or that that that some of the same land once belonged to France. Same. Or even that Texas used to be its own country.
You can hate the argument, but it is a valid one. But I agree, we are not "erasing" history, but hiding it.
Of course not. These monuments aren't intended merely to educate. They're intended to honor their subjects. I, for one, refuse to believe that the American people are so stupid that the only way they can remember the Confederacy's important figures is by relying on monuments expressly intended to honor them and their cause. --Bob
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire