Senator Flake's speech

[Bob78164]

Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona announced today in a speech from the Senate floor that he will not run for re-election. Here is his full speech.

It's a very worthwhile read. If the Republican party were like this today (and had been like this during the Obama Administration), we wouldn't be where we are today. I hope more Republican Senators follow his example and that of Senator Corker. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona announced today in a speech from the Senate floor that he will not run for re-election. Here is his full speech.

It's a very worthwhile read. If the Republican party were like this today (and had been like this during the Obama Administration), we wouldn't be where we are today. I hope more Republican Senators follow his example and that of Senator Corker. --Bob

I agree with Senator Flake. A courageous voice for the republican party. I hope the President will hear it.
I would like to see an equally courageous voice from the democrat party who would be brave enough to point out their own complicity in the breakdown of discourse. Unfortunately, I don't think either will ever happen.

[silverscreenselect]

Flake's seat in Arizona was already seen as pretty much of a tossup for 2018, so it's definitely in play. The Democrats have so many seats they are defending, including a number in tough states like IN, MT, ND, and MO, that retaking the Senate was a long shot, but a pickup in Arizona would probably help them maintain the status quo.

[Bob78164]

Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona announced today in a speech from the Senate floor that he will not run for re-election. Here is his full speech.

It's a very worthwhile read. If the Republican party were like this today (and had been like this during the Obama Administration), we wouldn't be where we are today. I hope more Republican Senators follow his example and that of Senator Corker. --Bob

I agree with Senator Flake. A courageous voice for the republican party. I hope the President will hear it.
I would like to see an equally courageous voice from the democrat party who would be brave enough to point out their own complicity in the breakdown of discourse. Unfortunately, I don't think either will ever happen.

I really think this is a false equivalence.

The Democratic Party by and large hasn't accepted this kind of conduct. When Congress was crafting the Affordable Care Act, Republicans were invited to the table and the final version of the Act included a number of Republican proposals. Republicans, in contrast, are insisting on trying to craft legislation without any Democratic input of any kind.

And of course, there are no prominent Democratic voices who are remotely close to the consistent barrage of incivility and outright falsehood that Donny has unleashed. If there were, I'm confident that my party would stand in opposition to that conduct. Most Congressional Republicans, in contrast, are demonstrating that keeping their jobs is more important to them than standing up for the country. --Bob

[Bob Juch]

I'm glad I live in a state with two of the more sensible Republican Senators.

[flockofseagulls104]

Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona announced today in a speech from the Senate floor that he will not run for re-election. Here is his full speech.

It's a very worthwhile read. If the Republican party were like this today (and had been like this during the Obama Administration), we wouldn't be where we are today. I hope more Republican Senators follow his example and that of Senator Corker. --Bob

I agree with Senator Flake. A courageous voice for the republican party. I hope the President will hear it.
I would like to see an equally courageous voice from the democrat party who would be brave enough to point out their own complicity in the breakdown of discourse. Unfortunately, I don't think either will ever happen.

I really think this is a false equivalence.

The Democratic Party by and large hasn't accepted this kind of conduct. When Congress was crafting the Affordable Care Act, Republicans were invited to the table and the final version of the Act included a number of Republican proposals. Republicans, in contrast, are insisting on trying to craft legislation without any Democratic input of any kind.

And of course, there are no prominent Democratic voices who are remotely close to the consistent barrage of incivility and outright falsehood that Donny has unleashed. If there were, I'm confident that my party would stand in opposition to that conduct. Most Congressional Republicans, in contrast, are demonstrating that keeping their jobs is more important to them than standing up for the country. --Bob

Well, bob, you only see things from your echo chamber. democrats have been uncivil for a looooong time now, and you think it's normal. From calling anyone who disagrees with them a the R-word, sexist, whatever-have-youist, to Hillary Clinton for 30 years labeling everyone who questions her actions part of some 'vast right wing conspiracy', right up to now and the childish 'resistance' that you play along with. Trump is a reaction to that, but a poorly chosen one. So blame yoourselves. trump is a jerk, but so are you and all your 'resistance' buddies. You are all juvenile, childish and are putting your own selfish pride before the good of the country.

While I agree with you that any wide ranging legislation should have some bi-partisan support, you have no finger to point with when the taking over of 1/5th of our economy by the government passed without one single bi-partisan vote, and the without a majority of public support. "Republicans were invited to the table and the final version of the Act included a number of Republican proposals". I call BS on that one, bob. Even Nancy Pelosi didn't know what was in the bill until it was passed by DEMOCRATS ONLY.

[silverscreenselect]

"Republicans were invited to the table and the final version of the Act included a number of Republican proposals". I call BS on that one, bob. Even Nancy Pelosi didn't know what was in the bill until it was passed by DEMOCRATS ONLY.

Not surprisingly Flock, you would be wrong.

When Democrats passed the Affordable Care Act in 2010 without a single Republican vote, they were criticized for being too partisan. In the end, however, the bill included many Republican ideas.

The keystone principle of the act — a mandate that all Americans buy health insurance — is rooted in conservative thinking. Additionally, the Democrat-controlled House and Senate committees adopted nearly 190 Republican amendments while writing the legislation, according to data compiled by The New York Times.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... ments.html

[Bob78164]

I agree with Senator Flake. A courageous voice for the republican party. I hope the President will hear it.
I would like to see an equally courageous voice from the democrat party who would be brave enough to point out their own complicity in the breakdown of discourse. Unfortunately, I don't think either will ever happen.

I really think this is a false equivalence.

The Democratic Party by and large hasn't accepted this kind of conduct. When Congress was crafting the Affordable Care Act, Republicans were invited to the table and the final version of the Act included a number of Republican proposals. Republicans, in contrast, are insisting on trying to craft legislation without any Democratic input of any kind.

And of course, there are no prominent Democratic voices who are remotely close to the consistent barrage of incivility and outright falsehood that Donny has unleashed. If there were, I'm confident that my party would stand in opposition to that conduct. Most Congressional Republicans, in contrast, are demonstrating that keeping their jobs is more important to them than standing up for the country. --Bob

Well, bob, you only see things from your echo chamber. democrats have been uncivil for a looooong time now, and you think it's normal. From calling anyone who disagrees with them a the R-word, sexist, whatever-have-youist, to Hillary Clinton for 30 years labeling everyone who questions her actions part of some 'vast right wing conspiracy', right up to now and the childish 'resistance' that you play along with. Trump is a reaction to that, but a poorly chosen one. So blame yoourselves. trump is a jerk, but so are you and all your 'resistance' buddies. You are all juvenile, childish and are putting your own selfish pride before the good of the country.

While I agree with you that any wide ranging legislation should have some bi-partisan support, you have no finger to point with when the taking over of 1/5th of our economy by the government passed without one single bi-partisan vote, and the without a majority of public support. "Republicans were invited to the table and the final version of the Act included a number of Republican proposals". I call BS on that one, bob. Even Nancy Pelosi didn't know what was in the bill until it was passed by DEMOCRATS ONLY.

Then you have your facts wrong, as well as misreading what I wrote. I didn't say bipartisan support -- that would give the minority party a veto over proposed legislation. I said bipartisan input. The Affordable Care Act was originally a Republican idea, and its final version included numerous Republican amendments. The process was open, consisting of numerous public hearings in at least three committees. That's why it lasted more than a year, and that's why it's worked well enough that repeal was going to be enormously unpopular.

In contrast, the Republicans chose to attempt to take health care from approximately 30 million people via a secretive process with no Democratic input whatsoever (and hardly any Republican input). It's emblematic of the process that the Republicans put together a working group to discuss women's health that didn't include a single woman in the room. (The pictures were all over the Internet at the time.) That's why the policy consequences of their bill would have been catastrophic. And the Republicans appear to be going the same route with tax reform.

As Senator Flake said, what Donny has been doing to the country is not normal, and must never be normal. I can now only hope that enough Republicans see it that way for Congress to start acting as an actual counterweight to Donny. But next year I'll be doing more than hoping. I'll be doing my level best to see that the country need not rely on a Republican majority that has been completely unwilling, as an institution, to place country over party. --Bob

[BackInTex]

The keystone principle of the act — a mandate that all Americans buy health insurance — is rooted in conservative thinking.

That is one of the most laughable things you've written. That principle is in no way conservative. Not in the least.

[flockofseagulls104]

The keystone principle of the act — a mandate that all Americans buy health insurance — is rooted in conservative thinking.

That is one of the most laughable things you've written. That principle is in no way conservative. Not in the least.

Of course conservatives want the government to mandate we buy health insurance. We conservatives want the government to tell us everything we need to do and what we can't do. SSS knows everything about conservatism, as he's shown in the past. We only say we want limited government as a dog whistle to the base of deplorables.

[flockofseagulls104]

Then you have your facts wrong, as well as misreading what I wrote. I didn't say bipartisan support -- that would give the minority party a veto over proposed legislation

My facts are correct. No one knew what the final bill was even when they voted on it. Even Pelosi admitted that. And only democrats voted for it. And the main fact is that the whole concept of Obamacare is fatally flawed, which is why it received 0% support from republicans.

For something that will affect all citizens this drastically, a law must be passed on a bi-partisan basis. I have no problem with a rational minority party having a veto over proposed legislation of this type. That is the way it is supposed to work, bob. Otherwise, it is called tyranny. Are the republicans doing the same thing here? It is hard to say because of idiots like you. The current mob of dems would vote down a cure for cancer because, like you, they have vowed to sabotage anything trump says or does.

[silverscreenselect]

Of course conservatives want the government to mandate we buy health insurance. We conservatives want the government to tell us everything we need to do and what we can't do. SSS knows everything about conservatism, as he's shown in the past. We only say we want limited government as a dog whistle to the base of deplorables.

If you look at the bill the Republicans proposed in 1993 as an alternative to Clinton's universal health care proposal, you'll find it was very much like Obamacare, as was Romneycare, passed by Massachusetts while Romney was governor. A number of the sponsors of the Republican 1993 proposal were still around in 2009 when Obamacare was being debated.

If Clinton had pivoted in 1993 and adopted the Republican proposal as a compromise, we would have had our current system for a quarter of a century.

[flockofseagulls104]

Of course conservatives want the government to mandate we buy health insurance. We conservatives want the government to tell us everything we need to do and what we can't do. SSS knows everything about conservatism, as he's shown in the past. We only say we want limited government as a dog whistle to the base of deplorables.

If you look at the bill the Republicans proposed in 1993 as an alternative to Clinton's universal health care proposal, you'll find it was very much like Obamacare, as was Romneycare, passed by Massachusetts while Romney was governor. A number of the sponsors of the Republican 1993 proposal were still around in 2009 when Obamacare was being debated.

If Clinton had pivoted in 1993 and adopted the Republican proposal as a compromise, we would have had our current system for a quarter of a century.

No healthcare bill was passed in 1993. If we looked at everything that was proposed and wasn't passed and used that as a debate point, we could justify anything.

[Bob78164]

Then you have your facts wrong, as well as misreading what I wrote. I didn't say bipartisan support -- that would give the minority party a veto over proposed legislation

My facts are correct. No one knew what the final bill was even when they voted on it. Even Pelosi admitted that. And only democrats voted for it. And the main fact is that the whole concept of Obamacare is fatally flawed, which is why it received 0% support from republicans.

For something that will affect all citizens this drastically, a law must be passed on a bi-partisan basis. I have no problem with a rational minority party having a veto over proposed legislation of this type. That is the way it is supposed to work, bob. Otherwise, it is called tyranny. Are the republicans doing the same thing here? It is hard to say because of idiots like you. The current mob of dems would vote down a cure for cancer because, like you, they have vowed to sabotage anything trump says or does.

The Affordable Care Act is so flawed that it now enjoys majority support from the American public. It's so flawed that it has driven the rate of uninsured to historic lows. If you consider that flawed, I can't help wondering what you'd need to consider it a success.

And Republicans plainly forfeited any claim to rationality when almost all of them voted to strip health insurance from tens of millions of people, knowing that the bill was a bad bill, simply because they preferred that option to actually negotiating with Democrats.

And you have no evidence that Democrats will obstruct anything rational that Donny proposes because (a) Donny really hasn't made any rational (or even intelligible) proposals and (b) the Republicans have insisted on trying to muscle through their headline proposals via a process that completely freezes out Democrats (as well as most Republicans). You can repeat that accusation credibly when Republicans start negotiating with Democrats. I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen. Hell, the Alexander-Murray compromise is clear evidence that most Republicans are unwilling to accept compromise because right now an awful lot of Republicans have come out against it.

We'll regain rationality in Congress when at least one House has a Democratic majority. Notwithstanding the gerrymandering that occurred after the 2010 census, it looks entirely possible that the House will flip. I'll be working toward that end, particularly with at least seven targets of opportunity right here in California. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

We'll regain rationality in Congress when at least one House has a Democratic majority. Notwithstanding the gerrymandering that occurred after the 2010 census, it looks entirely possible that the House will flip. I'll be working toward that end, particularly with at least seven targets of opportunity right here in California. --Bob

Keep doing what you're doing: offering nothing but accusations and division, and you will keep getting the results that Jon Ossoff got. I could argue with you and SSS all day, but it really doesn't matter if you disagree with my views about anything. You just need to come to grips with the fact that a lot of people outside your echo chamber vehemently disagree with yours. And you will get nowhere if all you do is continue to insult them and look down on them as not being as smart or compassionate as you. That doesn't convince anyone that you're right, but it convinces many that you're wrong.

[Bob78164]

We'll regain rationality in Congress when at least one House has a Democratic majority. Notwithstanding the gerrymandering that occurred after the 2010 census, it looks entirely possible that the House will flip. I'll be working toward that end, particularly with at least seven targets of opportunity right here in California. --Bob

Keep doing what you're doing: offering nothing but accusations and division, and you will keep getting the results that Jon Ossoff got. I could argue with you and SSS all day, but it really doesn't matter if you disagree with my views about anything. You just need to come to grips with the fact that a lot of people outside your echo chamber vehemently disagree with yours. And you will get nowhere if all you do is continue to insult them and look down on them as not being as smart or compassionate as you. That doesn't convince anyone that you're right, but it convinces many that you're wrong.

Nothing I've said attributes bad motives to voters. I do think that Senator Flake was absolutely right when he accused his Republican Congressional colleagues of prioritizing their own personal positions over the good of the country. Senator Flake has cast a lot of votes that I disagree with (including his vote last night to allow banks to continue imposing class action waivers on consumers), votes that I think are plainly contrary to the best interests of the American people, but that attitude I can respect.

Based on the results of the Presidential election, I'm starting with a plurality of the American people agreeing with my policy views. I'm pretty sure that plurality has grown significantly since the inauguration. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

We'll regain rationality in Congress when at least one House has a Democratic majority. Notwithstanding the gerrymandering that occurred after the 2010 census, it looks entirely possible that the House will flip. I'll be working toward that end, particularly with at least seven targets of opportunity right here in California. --Bob

Keep doing what you're doing: offering nothing but accusations and division, and you will keep getting the results that Jon Ossoff got. I could argue with you and SSS all day, but it really doesn't matter if you disagree with my views about anything. You just need to come to grips with the fact that a lot of people outside your echo chamber vehemently disagree with yours. And you will get nowhere if all you do is continue to insult them and look down on them as not being as smart or compassionate as you. That doesn't convince anyone that you're right, but it convinces many that you're wrong.

Nothing I've said attributes bad motives to voters. I do think that Senator Flake was absolutely right when he accused his Republican Congressional colleagues of prioritizing their own personal positions over the good of the country. Senator Flake has cast a lot of votes that I disagree with (including his vote last night to allow banks to continue imposing class action waivers on consumers), votes that I think are plainly contrary to the best interests of the American people, but that attitude I can respect.

Based on the results of the Presidential election, I'm starting with a plurality of the American people agreeing with my policy views. I'm pretty sure that plurality has grown significantly since the inauguration. --Bob

You would think so in your echo chamber bubble. Neither of us knows for sure. But regardless of your side's deliberate sabotage and trump's self-sabotage, the economy is growing. That will benefit everyone. I hope it continues.

[silverscreenselect]

Keep doing what you're doing: offering nothing but accusations and division, and you will keep getting the results that Jon Ossoff got.

While winning the Sixth District would be nice, there are a lot of other districts that have far less of a Republican lean that will be in play in the next election. If the Democrats "get the results that Jon Ossoff got" across the board, they will control the next House.

In lower special elections in state legislatures across the country, the Democrats have flipped several Republican seats this year already.

[flockofseagulls104]

Keep doing what you're doing: offering nothing but accusations and division, and you will keep getting the results that Jon Ossoff got.

While winning the Sixth District would be nice, there are a lot of other districts that have far less of a Republican lean that will be in play in the next election. If the Democrats "get the results that Jon Ossoff got" across the board, they will control the next House.

In lower special elections in state legislatures across the country, the Democrats have flipped several Republican seats this year already.

Maybe. Accusations and division has worked for the democrats in the past. That's why they keep using it. That and the fact that it is all they have.

[Bob78164]

Keep doing what you're doing: offering nothing but accusations and division, and you will keep getting the results that Jon Ossoff got.

While winning the Sixth District would be nice, there are a lot of other districts that have far less of a Republican lean that will be in play in the next election. If the Democrats "get the results that Jon Ossoff got" across the board, they will control the next House.

In lower special elections in state legislatures across the country, the Democrats have flipped several Republican seats this year already.

Maybe. Accusations and division has worked for the democrats in the past. That's why they keep using it. That and the fact that it is all they have.

There are 30 million recent beneficiaries of health insurance who would beg to differ that that's all the Democrats have.

Would you mind reminding me of the Republican Congress's accomplishments? I can't seem to remember them. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

While winning the Sixth District would be nice, there are a lot of other districts that have far less of a Republican lean that will be in play in the next election. If the Democrats "get the results that Jon Ossoff got" across the board, they will control the next House.

In lower special elections in state legislatures across the country, the Democrats have flipped several Republican seats this year already.

Maybe. Accusations and division has worked for the democrats in the past. That's why they keep using it. That and the fact that it is all they have.

There are 30 million recent beneficiaries of health insurance who would beg to differ that that's all the Democrats have.

Would you mind reminding me of the Republican Congress's accomplishments? I can't seem to remember them. --Bob

I really enjoy the dems pointing the finger at the republican's inability to get anything out of congress when they have vowed to resist anything coming from trump. It's like pushing someone into the mud then accusing them of being dirty.

[frogman042]

Maybe. Accusations and division has worked for the democrats in the past. That's why they keep using it. That and the fact that it is all they have.

There are 30 million recent beneficiaries of health insurance who would beg to differ that that's all the Democrats have.

Would you mind reminding me of the Republican Congress's accomplishments? I can't seem to remember them. --Bob

I really enjoy the dems pointing the finger at the republican's inability to get anything out of congress when they have vowed to resist anything coming from trump. It's like pushing someone into the mud then accusing them of being dirty.

Flock,
I am curious, can you point me to a link to which dems vowed to resit 'anything' coming from President Trump? It's is one thing to oppose specific proposal's, it's another to vow to oppose anything, sight unseen - and I would like to see which dem's made that vow.

Thanks,

[flockofseagulls104]

There are 30 million recent beneficiaries of health insurance who would beg to differ that that's all the Democrats have.

Would you mind reminding me of the Republican Congress's accomplishments? I can't seem to remember them. --Bob

I really enjoy the dems pointing the finger at the republican's inability to get anything out of congress when they have vowed to resist anything coming from trump. It's like pushing someone into the mud then accusing them of being dirty.

Flock,
I am curious, can you point me to a link to which dems vowed to resit 'anything' coming from President Trump? It's is one thing to oppose specific proposal's, it's another to vow to oppose anything, sight unseen - and I would like to see which dem's made that vow.

Thanks,

Do you watch the news? I know they don't feature them, because they are embarrassed about them, but these self styled SJWs are always at the staged demonstrations and all over the internet and in the congress. Here's one site. Find others.

https://www.theresistanceparty.org/

Oooh, here's another fun one. I'lll bet bob has read this one. Some of them are very nasty and spiteful. Most of them are childish.
http://99waystofighttrump.com

[silverscreenselect]

I really enjoy the dems pointing the finger at the republican's inability to get anything out of congress when they have vowed to resist anything coming from trump. It's like pushing someone into the mud then accusing them of being dirty.

Flock,
I am curious, can you point me to a link to which dems vowed to resit 'anything' coming from President Trump? It's is one thing to oppose specific proposal's, it's another to vow to oppose anything, sight unseen - and I would like to see which dem's made that vow.

Thanks,

Do you watch the news? I know they don't feature them, because they are embarrassed about them, but these self styled SJWs are always at the staged demonstrations and all over the internet and in the congress. Here's one site. Find others.

https://www.theresistanceparty.org/

Oooh, here's another fun one. I'lll bet bob has read this one. Some of them are very nasty and spiteful. Most of them are childish.
http://99waystofighttrump.com

Flock,

I'm curious how many of these people are elected officials.

We can spend all day finding activist sites, left and right.

[Bob Juch]

Maybe. Accusations and division has worked for the democrats in the past. That's why they keep using it. That and the fact that it is all they have.

Wow, after the Republican tactics in the last presidential election?!