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 Post subject: Re: Movie time
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:23 pm 
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littlebeast13 wrote:
an idealized notion of what society should be...

lb13


I guess I thought this is what fantasy would be for. To show us how it could be.

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 Post subject: Re: Movie time
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:29 pm 
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Ha. This sounds like a conversation we had years ago on this board, when they started auditions for the show to get more players other than MAWGS in play.

The idea that we wanted to see people who looked like us on TV is the same in the movies.

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 Post subject: Re: Movie time
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:51 pm 
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Ritterskoop wrote:
Wait, what? Women are half the population and they can't be half the crew?


Which half is Admiral Ackbar?



In a film series in which creatures from dozens of different worlds are part of the crew, it's kind of silly to talk about the demographic makeup of the crew.

I think most of the criticism in this movie has to do with one character, Laura Dern's Admiral Holdo, who rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. And unfortunately, I can't really discuss her role without revealing some major spoilers.

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 Post subject: Re: Movie time
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:31 am 
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Ritterskoop wrote:
littlebeast13 wrote:
an idealized notion of what society should be...

lb13


I guess I thought this is what fantasy would be for. To show us how it could be.



And that could certainly be true! But changing horses so late in a series of movies is going to seem odd... just like when people complain about anything else in a long running series that seems out of place based on the older ones.

lb13

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 Post subject: Re: Movie time
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:08 am 
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Ritterskoop wrote:
I guess I thought this is what fantasy would be for. To show us how it could be.


Top bad guys: 3 white men
Secondary bad guy: 1 white, but Hispanic, man
Summary: Bad guys, all white men

Top good guy leaders: 2 strong white women and one 1 old disenchanted white guy (required due to prior films, but I'm sure if they could go back in time and change Mark Hamill to a woman or minority they would)
Top good guy hero: 1 white woman
Secondary good guy heroes: 1 white man, 1 black man, 1 Asian woman (good but obvious diversity)
Summary: Good guys, mostly women (with the the top 3 of 4 being white)

It could be that way, I guess. I am surprised that Laura Dern's role was not cast with a minority.

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 Post subject: Re: Movie time
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:06 am 
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BackInTex wrote:
Ritterskoop wrote:
I guess I thought this is what fantasy would be for. To show us how it could be.


Top bad guys: 3 white men
Secondary bad guy: 1 white, but Hispanic, man
Summary: Bad guys, all white men

Top good guy leaders: 2 strong white women and one 1 old disenchanted white guy (required due to prior films, but I'm sure if they could go back in time and change Mark Hamill to a woman or minority they would)
Top good guy hero: 1 white woman
Secondary good guy heroes: 1 white man, 1 black man, 1 Asian woman (good but obvious diversity)
Summary: Good guys, mostly women (with the the top 3 of 4 being white)

It could be that way, I guess. I am surprised that Laura Dern's role was not cast with a minority.


Finn (John Boyega), one of the heroes of the second trilogy, is a stormtrooper who defected. Since they all wear helmets, it's impossible to know what their racial or sexual background is. One of the few secondary villains with any lines, Captain Phasma, is played by Gwendolyn Christie, and it's revealed in the movie that she is definitely female.

The lead villain and Supreme Ruler is Snoke, who isn't human.

The entire point of the Star Wars universe is that the universe is indeed a melting pot of all species and races (remember Yoda). That's the entire purpose of scenes like the casino scene in this movie and the cantina scene in the original movie which helped establish the tone of the entire series.

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 Post subject: Re: Movie time
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:01 am 
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littlebeast13 wrote:
Ritterskoop wrote:
littlebeast13 wrote:
an idealized notion of what society should be...

lb13


I guess I thought this is what fantasy would be for. To show us how it could be.



And that could certainly be true! But changing horses so late in a series of movies is going to seem odd... just like when people complain about anything else in a long-running series that seems out of place based on the older ones.

lb13

They didn't change horses; the same people are in the same roles. It's called progress. It's not like making a WW2 film with women in command or combat roles.

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 Post subject: Re: Movie time
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:56 pm 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
Finn (John Boyega), one of the heroes of the second trilogy, is a stormtrooper who defected. Since they all wear helmets, it's impossible to know what their racial or sexual background is.
The First Order stormtroopers aren't like the old Empire stormtroopers, who were all clones of Jango Fett, played by a Maori man.

I liked the scene in The Force Awakens when Han Solo fends off Scottish and Indonesian gangs. Of course, in a galaxy far far away, there really aren't any Scots, Asians, Hispanics or Maori.


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 Post subject: Re: Movie time
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:45 pm 
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littlebeast13 wrote:
Ritterskoop wrote:
Wait, what? Women are half the population and they can't be half the crew?



I think the crux of where we disagree on PC can be found here in this statement. You ask why can't the crew represent the general demographics? My answer would simply be that it most often doesn't in the real world, for a variety of reasons. There are very few job sectors where the demographics align very well with the overall population... and you can change "job sector" to all kinds of other different segments of society, and the disparity will still almost always be there. In the case of a movie... unless the rules of the story's world are different from those of society as we know it, then why shouldn't the film represent what actually is? I realize it's stupid to criticize a fantasy film for not being realistic, but unless there was some kind of feminist revolution that took place in the Star Wars universe between the settings of the original and sequel movies, then how could a change be seen as anything but pandering to an idealized notion of what society should be... and I think that, more than anything, is what I would define as political correctness... failing to recognize what is just because one thinks it is wrong or unjust to a demographic that has traditionally been considered to be disadvantaged (And I think it is possible to acknowledge that truth without having to accept that it right)...

The majority of my Walmart co-workers are female, while the overwhelming majority of salaried managers have been male. If someone took the time to get to know the general situations and needs of the men and women who work in retail, they would understand why that continues to be true... even in this time when there are so many career women. But most people on the outside just see that X does not equal Y and assume there must be something discriminatory happening. I think the gender PC may be the most irritating one simply because it is inarguable that men and women ARE different at the basic biological level. There will always be outliers and other anomalies, but from a general standpoint, we're still Venus and Mars...

lb13


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