I think my last post wasn't clear. I was treating your previous post as an apology and accepting it. --Bobflockofseagulls104 wrote:OK, I am done here. Sorry I offended you, bob.
More interference with the FBI
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Re: More interference with the FBI
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: More interference with the FBI
Bob78164 wrote:[A]Extreme carelessness in handling classified material isn't a crime. A crime requires intent.
[A]Correct
Incorrect
Grade 50%
Fail!
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Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
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~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
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Re: More interference with the FBI
In this statute (as confirmed by jarnon's experience), a crime does require intent. I agree that there are plenty of contexts where that's not the case. --BobBackInTex wrote:Bob78164 wrote:[A]Extreme carelessness in handling classified material isn't a crime. A crime requires intent.
[A]Correct
Incorrect
Grade 50%
Fail!
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: More interference with the FBI
Nevermind
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~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
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War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
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Re: More interference with the FBI
Bob78164 wrote:In this statute (as confirmed by jarnon's experience), a crime does require intent. I agree that there are plenty of contexts where that's not the case. --BobBackInTex wrote:Bob78164 wrote:[A]Extreme carelessness in handling classified material isn't a crime. A crime requires intent.
[A]Correct
Incorrect
Grade 50%
Fail!
793f doesn't require intent
Well, then
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Re: More interference with the FBI
Beebs52 wrote:Bob78164 wrote:In this statute (as confirmed by jarnon's experience), a crime does require intent. I agree that there are plenty of contexts where that's not the case. --BobBackInTex wrote:
[A]Correct
Incorrect
Grade 50%
Fail!
793f doesn't require intent
Right, so Trump should be prosecuted under that section.
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Re: More interference with the FBI
Don't quit your day job, skippy.Bob Juch wrote:Right, so Trump should be prosecuted under that section.Beebs52 wrote:793f doesn't require intentBob78164 wrote:In this statute (as confirmed by jarnon's experience), a crime does require intent. I agree that there are plenty of contexts where that's not the case. --Bob
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Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
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Re: More interference with the FBI
But it only applies to someone who "permits [classified material] to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed." That doesn't apply to receipt or sending of e-mails, particularly where the people receiving the e-mails were in fact cleared to receive the information. --BobBeebs52 wrote:Bob78164 wrote:In this statute (as confirmed by jarnon's experience), a crime does require intent. I agree that there are plenty of contexts where that's not the case. --BobBackInTex wrote:
[A]Correct
Incorrect
Grade 50%
Fail!
793f doesn't require intent
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: More interference with the FBI
But it only applies to someone who "permits [classified material] to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed." That doesn't apply to receipt or sending of e-mails, particularly where the people receiving the e-mails were in fact cleared to receive the information. --Bob[/quote]Bob78164 wrote: 793f doesn't require intent
Weren't a lot of Clinton's email (possibly containing such classified information, we may never know) lost or destroyed? Plus, because the servers were destroyed, we don't know who all received them, forwarded them, or to who. Also, Wiener was not cleared.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
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Re: More interference with the FBI
(f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or bot
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or bot
Well, then
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Re: More interference with the FBI
Secretary Clinton didn't permit Wiener to get anything. And the information in the e-mails wasn't destroyed. That provision is intended to cover situations like some idiot who does something incredibly stupid that results in destruction of, say, the one-time cipher pad.BackInTex wrote:Weren't a lot of Clinton's email (possibly containing such classified information, we may never know) lost or destroyed? Plus, because the servers were destroyed, we don't know who all received them, forwarded them, or to who. Also, Wiener was not cleared.Bob78164 wrote:But it only applies to someone who "permits [classified material] to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed." That doesn't apply to receipt or sending of e-mails, particularly where the people receiving the e-mails were in fact cleared to receive the information. --BobBeebs52 wrote: 793f doesn't require intent
And if you don't know (and can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt) that Secretary Clinton provided the e-mails to someone who wasn't supposed to get them (deliberately or otherwise), then you can't charge her with a crime for having done so.
And let's get real here. No one has suggested that anything in the e-mails actually put our national security at risk. It's not like she revealed the location of our nuclear submarines to a hostile foreign government. That would have been a real problem. --Bob
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Re: More interference with the FBI
She was Secretary of State. If she was not communicating with people about top secret information that may put American lives in danger if it got out, she was not doing her job.Bob78164 wrote: No one has suggested that anything in the e-mails actually put our national security at risk.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
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Re: More interference with the FBI
The unsecured e-mail server was not her only means of communication. The evidence was clear that she was sensitive to the need not to put classified information on that server. The issue arose because some got there anyway.BackInTex wrote:She was Secretary of State. If she was not communicating with people about top secret information that may put American lives in danger if it got out, she was not doing her job.Bob78164 wrote: No one has suggested that anything in the e-mails actually put our national security at risk.
But this was a political issue because it supported the inference that as President, she wouldn't take sufficient care to protect classified information. Given what's actually happened with Donny in the White House (to the sound of a deafening Congressional silence), in retrospect that argument was a bad joke. --Bob
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Re: More interference with the FBI
Clear to you, but that is a really really low bar with regards to Clinton. In fact, I believe the bar is laying on the ground.Bob78164 wrote: The evidence was clear that she was sensitive to the need not to put classified information on that server.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
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Re: More interference with the FBI
There were lots of e-mails to the effect of, "We can't discuss that subject via this e-mail." --BobBackInTex wrote:Clear to you, but that is a really really low bar with regards to Clinton. In fact, I believe the bar is laying on the ground.Bob78164 wrote: The evidence was clear that she was sensitive to the need not to put classified information on that server.
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Re: More interference with the FBI
And now Devin Nunes has admitted that the FBI did disclose in a footnote that some of the information in the Page warrant application was contained in a footnote. He now claims that the footnote wasn't calling sufficient attention to the fact.
As New York Magazine put it,
“A footnote saying something may be political is a far cry from letting the American people know that the Democrats and the Hillary campaign paid for dirt that the FBI then used to get a warrant on an American citizen to spy on another campaign,”
As New York Magazine put it,
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... small.htmlNotice how “The FBI LIED about the Steele dossier” has been scaled back to, “The FBI did not highlight the truth about the Steele Dossier in the part of the application we bothered to read.” So now the main attack on the FBI is about font size.
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Re: More interference with the FBI
To the surprise of absolutely no one, Donny refused to release the Democratic response. I'd ask what he's afraid of, but I think we already know the answer. --Bob
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Re: More interference with the FBI
Probably due to purposeful jacking around of dems to thwart.Bob78164 wrote:To the surprise of absolutely no one, Donny refused to release the Democratic response. I'd ask what he's afraid of, but I think we already know the answer. --Bob
Well, then
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Re: More interference with the FBI
The Republicans orchestrated the entire fiasco in the first place with Nunes' decision to publish a memo based on material he hadn't actually read. And, ever since he did that, the Republicans have had to walk back several of their claims, like the one about the FBI not informing the court about the political nature of some of the information.Beebs52 wrote:Probably due to purposeful jacking around of dems to thwart.Bob78164 wrote:To the surprise of absolutely no one, Donny refused to release the Democratic response. I'd ask what he's afraid of, but I think we already know the answer. --Bob
"Purposeful jacking around" by the Democrats in this case probably means providing a far more accurate view of what's actually in the records.
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Re: More interference with the FBI
I shall respectfully disagree.silverscreenselect wrote:The Republicans orchestrated the entire fiasco in the first place with Nunes' decision to publish a memo based on material he hadn't actually read. And, ever since he did that, the Republicans have had to walk back several of their claims, like the one about the FBI not informing the court about the political nature of some of the information.Beebs52 wrote:Probably due to purposeful jacking around of dems to thwart.Bob78164 wrote:To the surprise of absolutely no one, Donny refused to release the Democratic response. I'd ask what he's afraid of, but I think we already know the answer. --Bob
"Purposeful jacking around" by the Democrats in this case probably means providing a far more accurate view of what's actually in the records.
Well, then
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Re: More interference with the FBI
But of course there's no way to know for sure because Donny released the memo he thought would help him while continuing to hide the memo he thinks will hurt him. It sure looks to me like an abuse of the classification process for political gain, triggered by Donny's insecurity because he knows he has lots to hide. --Bob
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Re: More interference with the FBI
Here is the Democratic memo. It sure looks like there was a reason the Republicans didn't want this one read at the same time as the memo that Donny had Devin Nunes ghost-write for him. --Bob
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Re: More interference with the FBI
This memo debunks Nunes’s allegations, which were flimsy to begin with. The Trump campaign brought scrutiny on itself by employing so many advisors with with foreign business dealings. Trump supporters will still argue that the biased Justice Dept. looked for any pretext to go after Republicans, while giving Democrats with foreign connections a free pass.Bob78164 wrote:Here is the Democratic memo. It sure looks like there was a reason the Republicans didn't want this one read at the same time as the memo that Donny had Devin Nunes ghost-write for him. --Bob
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עם ישראל חי
עם ישראל חי
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Re: More interference with the FBI
And they'd be correct.jarnon wrote:Bob78164 wrote: Trump supporters will still argue that the biased Justice Dept. looked for any pretext to go after Republicans, while giving Democrats with foreign connections a free pass.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)