Here we go again - Florida school shooting

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Spock
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Re: Here we go again - Florida school shooting

#26 Post by Spock » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:30 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote: But I don't think it's asking too much of them to at least avoid making the problem worse. --Bob
Not withstanding the fact I agree with you on the States' Rights issue, but how would allowing C&C holders from other states to carry in your state, or any state, make "the problem" worse? What is the problem and how have C&C holders made it worse?
California (through its elected representatives) has concluded that easy availability of guns (as by having them on one's person) exacerbates gun violence. I agree with that conclusion. --Bob
Kate Steinle thanks the elected representatives of California for their wise policies.

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Re: Here we go again - Florida school shooting

#27 Post by Bob78164 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:44 pm

Spock wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Not withstanding the fact I agree with you on the States' Rights issue, but how would allowing C&C holders from other states to carry in your state, or any state, make "the problem" worse? What is the problem and how have C&C holders made it worse?
California (through its elected representatives) has concluded that easy availability of guns (as by having them on one's person) exacerbates gun violence. I agree with that conclusion. --Bob
Kate Steinle thanks the elected representatives of California for their wise policies.
The jury found that shooting was accidental (or at least that the prosecution hadn't proved intent beyond a reasonable doubt). The jury's conclusion seems reasonable to me. Specifically, the bullet hit the ground 12 feet from the shooter and then ricocheted 78 feet before hitting Ms. Steinle.

So perhaps you could explain to me how a wider availability of firearms would have prevented that particular tragedy? --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Here we go again - Florida school shooting

#28 Post by Spock » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:02 am

silverscreenselect wrote:This comes from the Anti-Defamation League website, so it doesn't carry the same weight as from a more established news organization but:
A spokesperson for the white supremacist group Republic of Florida (ROF) told the Anti-Defamation League on Thursday, February 15, that Nikolas Cruz, the man charged with the previous day’s deadly shooting spree at a Parkland, Florida, high school, was associated with his group. After self-described ROF members claimed on the discussion forum 4chan that Cruz had also been a member, the Anti-Defamation League called the ROF hotline and spoke with an ROF member who identified himself as Jordan Jereb.

Jereb, based in Tallahassee, is believed to be the leader of ROF. In 2016, he was arrested on charges of threatening a staffer in the office of Florida Governor Rick Scott because he was allegedly angry at the staffer’s son. Jereb said that Cruz was associated with ROF, having been “brought up” by another membe. Jereb added that Cruz had participated in one or more ROF training exercises in the Tallahassee area, carpooling with other ROF members from south Florida.

ROF has members in north and south Florida. The alt right white supremacist group borrows paramilitary concepts from the anti-government extremist militia movement (not itself a white supremacist movement). ROF describes itself as a “white civil rights organization fighting for white identitarian politics” and seeks to create a “white ethnostate” in Florida. Most ROF members are young and the group itself is only a few years old. Jereb added that ROF had not ordered or wanted Cruz to do anything like the school shooting.
https://www.adl.org/blog/florida-white- ... kolas-cruz

Can you imagine the reaction from the usual right wing sources if the shooter were (A) Muslim, (B) a recent immigrant, illegal or otherwise, or (C) both. But don't expect much of a response here.
Been chuckling about this for a few hours. I remember last year during the "Last Night in Sweden" contretemps, SSS and Bob#s absolutely limited the discussion to LAST NIGHT and SWEDEN. Heaven forbid if I talked about exactly similar problems in other countries or things that weren't last night. But, we were awful quick to jump to "Right-Wing-Muslims-Immigrants" which had absolutely nothing to do with Parkland.

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Re: Here we go again - Florida school shooting

#29 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:35 am

Spock wrote: But, we were awful quick to jump to "Right-Wing-Muslims-Immigrants" which had absolutely nothing to do with Parkland.
My source here was flawed, as I cautioned when I posted it. However, "we" just pointed out a truism, that any hint that this shooter was a Muslim, an immigrant, or both would have immediately become the story among the right wing media.
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Re: Here we go again - Florida school shooting

#30 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:40 pm

Here is a story describing in graphic detail the damage a round from an AR-15 causes when it passes through a human body. It was written by a radiologist who was reading imaging coming in from the Parkland shooting victims.

I cannot fathom any reason these weapons should be available for civilian use. Or even any non-military use. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Here we go again - Florida school shooting

#31 Post by BackInTex » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:21 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Spock wrote: But, we were awful quick to jump to "Right-Wing-Muslims-Immigrants" which had absolutely nothing to do with Parkland.
My source here was flawed, as I cautioned when I posted it. However, "we" just pointed out a truism, that any hint that this shooter was a Muslim, an immigrant, or both would have immediately become the story among the right wing media.
Translation: Not only were my facts wrong and my source was flawed, but I failed in making my point, but my point was worth making so my examples are relevant. :roll:
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Re: Here we go again - Florida school shooting

#32 Post by BackInTex » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:24 pm

Bob78164 wrote:Here is a story describing in graphic detail the damage a round from an AR-15 causes when it passes through a human body. It was written by a radiologist who was reading imaging coming in from the Parkland shooting victims.

I cannot fathom any reason these weapons should be available for civilian use. Or even any non-military use. --Bob
That's why we have a Bill of Rights. Because some would choose to limit peoples' rights base on their own limited view of the world.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Here we go again - Florida school shooting

#33 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:51 am

BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:Here is a story describing in graphic detail the damage a round from an AR-15 causes when it passes through a human body. It was written by a radiologist who was reading imaging coming in from the Parkland shooting victims.

I cannot fathom any reason these weapons should be available for civilian use. Or even any non-military use. --Bob
That's why we have a Bill of Rights. Because some would choose to limit peoples' rights base on their own limited view of the world.
The Bill of Rights does not grant anyone the right to own or possess an AR-15 any more than it guarantees anyone the right to possess an atomic weapon. If it did, it should be amended, but fortunately that's not necessary. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Here we go again - Florida school shooting

#34 Post by BackInTex » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:50 am

Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:Here is a story describing in graphic detail the damage a round from an AR-15 causes when it passes through a human body. It was written by a radiologist who was reading imaging coming in from the Parkland shooting victims.

I cannot fathom any reason these weapons should be available for civilian use. Or even any non-military use. --Bob
That's why we have a Bill of Rights. Because some would choose to limit peoples' rights base on their own limited view of the world.
The Bill of Rights does not grant anyone the right to own or possess an AR-15 any more than it guarantees anyone the right to possess an atomic weapon. If it did, it should be amended, but fortunately that's not necessary. --Bob
You are correct. The Bill of Rights does not grant anyone any right. Not to an AR-15, not to a deck of cards to play bridge. Nothing. You are absolutely correct. As was I.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Here we go again - Florida school shooting

#35 Post by jarnon » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:58 am

Here is an ironic news photo:

Image

This is the Parkland School District in Pennsylvania, not Florida. It was the top story in our area today.
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Re: Here we go again - Florida school shooting

#36 Post by Vandal » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:28 am

Parkland suspect Nikolas Cruz will soon get a $432K inheritance and his attorneys want out
FORT LAUDERDALE — The public defenders for Parkland school massacre defendant Nikolas Cruz unexpectedly asked to withdraw from the case Wednesday, saying the 20-year-old man will soon inherit nearly a half-million dollars and no longer qualify for free legal representation.

The Broward County Public Defender's Office filed the unexpected notice late Wednesday, saying Cruz is set to receive more than $432,000 shortly from his late mother's life insurance policy. Under state law, the public defender can only represent defendants who cannot afford private attorneys.

Cruz is charged with 17 counts of first-degree murder and 17 counts of attempted murder arising from the Feb. 14, 2017, shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 571335002/
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