A Funny Sign of the End Times

[Spock]

Never saw this one coming.

With the proposals to arm teachers, we have the left trashing the shit out of teachers.

Most of us have likely have seen examples of this by now, but this example is illustrative of the whole.


>>>"Think for a minute about all the teachers you had growing up. A few were awesome, most were pretty good, a couple were bad.

And then there were those 1-2 people who you wondered why on earth they were allowed to be around kids, even when you were a kid.

Now think of that person having a gun to “protect” you."<<<<

[jarnon]

Arming teachers could work in South Dakota, or Oklahoma, or even parts of Pennsylvania, where most people already own guns and know what to do with them. It would be a disaster around here.

[Bob78164]

Arming teachers could work in South Dakota, or Oklahoma, or even parts of Pennsylvania, where most people already own guns and know what to do with them. It would be a disaster around here.

It turns out that there was an armed and trained police officer outside the school when the shooting started. He was aware of the shooting and was trained to enter the building and confront the shooter. Instead, he did nothing for four minutes. (He has now been fired.)

That's the reaction of someone who has been trained to use firearms. I would worry much more about my son's safety if firearms were permitted in his school. And I'm guessing that none of the lawmakers who are advocating this send their kids to private schools where the teachers are armed. --Bob

[Estonut]

Arming teachers could work in South Dakota, or Oklahoma, or even parts of Pennsylvania, where most people already own guns and know what to do with them. It would be a disaster around here.

It turns out that there was an armed and trained police officer outside the school when the shooting started. He was aware of the shooting and was trained to enter the building and confront the shooter. Instead, he did nothing for four minutes. (He has now been fired.)

That's the reaction of someone who has been trained to use firearms. I would worry much more about my son's safety if firearms were permitted in his school. And I'm guessing that none of the lawmakers who are advocating this send their kids to private schools where the teachers are armed.

You are talking about a coward. The assistant football coach, however, was killed after running TOWARDS the shooting (unarmed). I wonder how many lives (including his own) might have been saved, had he been the one that was armed instead of Barney Fife.

[earendel]

A modest proposal...

Let's cut out the middleman - just issue each student a gun. After all, "a good man with a gun trumps a bad man with a gun". Think of how many might still be alive if all of their fellow students had been armed.

What could possibly go wrong?

[silverscreenselect]

Never saw this one coming.

With the proposals to arm teachers, we have the left trashing the shit out of teachers.

Those "trashing the shit out of teachers" seem to be the teachers themselves and cops, both of which groups have a better idea of what goes on in schools and in active shooter situations (and think that putting a lot of poorly trained armed teachers in schools is a bad idea) than do farmers in the midwest whose idol and resident expert is Victor Davis Hanson.

[silverscreenselect]

I wonder how many lives (including his own) might have been saved, had he been the one that was armed instead of Barney Fife.

And how many lives will be lost if some Barney Fife overreacts some time a kid mouths off in class once too often. The problem with these "trained hero" scenarios is that for every instance in which the right person is in the right place at the right time, you have far more scenarios in which the wrong armed person is in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[BackInTex]

I wonder how many lives (including his own) might have been saved, had he been the one that was armed instead of Barney Fife.

And how many lives will be lost if some Barney Fife overreacts some time a kid mouths off in class once too often. The problem with these "trained hero" scenarios is that for every instance in which the right person is in the right place at the right time, you have far more scenarios in which the wrong armed person is in the wrong place at the wrong time.

You keep projecting yourself in these situations. I agree with your assessments if you were the BF with the gun. But that's not the case, thankfully.

Handling weapons is dangerous. But properly trained persons, they don't have to be an officer, can and do handle these safely, in fact much more safely and with less injury and loss of life than folks "trained" in handling automobiles and Tide Pods.

[silverscreenselect]

But properly trained persons, they don't have to be an officer, can and do handle these safely,

That's true, but it begs two questions, first, how are we going to determine which "properly trained" persons will be carrying firearms in school, and second, how can we tell if someone is "properly trained." (Here's a hint on the second question: it's not merely passing a firearms proficiency course at a shooting range.) There's a big difference between knowing enough not to shoot your foot off accidentally and possessing the judgment to determine when and how to use a firearm in a potentially hostile, extremely emotional situation in which everyone is acting panicky and you have to make split second decisions whether you're shooting at a kid running away or an armed gunman.

[silverscreenselect]

You keep projecting yourself in these situations.

I don't have to project myself in those situations. There have been far too many instances of people in those situations reacting poorly with tragic results.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/f ... -1.1978021

[BackInTex]

You keep projecting yourself in these situations.

I don't have to project myself in those situations. There have been far too many instances of people in those situations reacting poorly with tragic results.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/f ... -1.1978021

That's the best you can do, a 3-year old case? That would indicate they are not far too many, but far and few between. On the other hand we could fill the board with recent articles about thugs shooting and killing innocent people who did not have a means to protect themselves.

[silverscreenselect]

You keep projecting yourself in these situations.

I don't have to project myself in those situations. There have been far too many instances of people in those situations reacting poorly with tragic results.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/f ... -1.1978021

That's the best you can do, a 3-year old case? That would indicate they are not far too many, but far and few between. On the other hand we could fill the board with recent articles about thugs shooting and killing innocent people who did not have a means to protect themselves.

No, that's just the first place I looked because it got more notoriety. These cases aren't all that infrequent:

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/ ... lau_1.html

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states ... l-shooting

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/trending-now ... /703378350

[BackInTex]

I don't have to project myself in those situations. There have been far too many instances of people in those situations reacting poorly with tragic results.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/f ... -1.1978021

That's the best you can do, a 3-year old case? That would indicate they are not far too many, but far and few between. On the other hand we could fill the board with recent articles about thugs shooting and killing innocent people who did not have a means to protect themselves.

No, that's just the first place I looked because it got more notoriety. These cases aren't all that infrequent:

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/ ... lau_1.html

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states ... l-shooting

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/trending-now ... /703378350

You get credit for 2. The third one has yet to be tried. I'd likely shoot some angry guy charging me and telling me "I'm gonna fuck you up, while reaching into his pocket." People need to understand there can be consequences for your threats. I wouldn't care if he had a gun in that pocket. He was coming at me....because his food took longer than he wanted. Good riddance.

[silverscreenselect]

I'd likely shoot some angry guy charging me and telling me "I'm gonna fuck you up, while reaching into his pocket." People need to understand there can be consequences for your threats. I wouldn't care if he had a gun in that pocket. He was coming at me....because his food took longer than he wanted. Good riddance.

Of course, that's the story told by the driver after consulting with his attorney. Unfortunately, the other guy, who was unarmed, isn't around to tell his side of the story.

[jarnon]

You get credit for 2. The third one has yet to be tried. I'd likely shoot some angry guy charging me and telling me "I'm gonna fuck you up, while reaching into his pocket." People need to understand there can be consequences for your threats. I wouldn't care if he had a gun in that pocket. He was coming at me....because his food took longer than he wanted. Good riddance.

I don't know all the facts, but it's telling that Uber is taking the dead guy's side, not standing up for their driver.

BiT, do you agree with me that arming teachers would be helpful in some districts, but just cause more problems in others? Also, the law that permits it has to say that a teacher can only use his weapon against a visibly armed assailant - no self-defense, stand your ground, etc.

[silverscreenselect]

I'd likely shoot some angry guy charging me and telling me "I'm gonna fuck you up, while reaching into his pocket."

And, let's add that if there's an active shooter in a school with 3,000 students, a while lot of them are going to be "charging" in the direction of any potential Good Samaritan while yelling and screaming and reaching in their pocket for cell phones to call 911.

[BackInTex]

I'd likely shoot some angry guy charging me and telling me "I'm gonna fuck you up, while reaching into his pocket."

And, let's add that if there's an active shooter in a school with 3,000 students, a while lot of them are going to be "charging" in the direction of any potential Good Samaritan while yelling and screaming and reaching in their pocket for cell phones to call 911.

Sad you can't tell the difference in those two situations. Sad you think you'd react the same in both. Good thing you are scared of guns.

[BackInTex]

BiT, do you agree with me that arming teachers would be helpful in some districts, but just cause more problems in others? Also, the law that permits it has to say that a teacher can only use his weapon against a visibly armed assailant - no self-defense, stand your ground, etc.

I see nothing wrong with your statement. Every local school district should be allowed to protect their students in ways that they, at the local level, determine. As far as "visibly armed assailant" goes, that pretty much goes for every legal carry person. The test is "in fear for your life or the life of others". There are really not many situations where there is not an armed person doing the threatening. I'm sure out of 10,000 schools and 200 days a year there are situations here and there where the line maybe could or should be broadened.

[silverscreenselect]

I'd likely shoot some angry guy charging me and telling me "I'm gonna fuck you up, while reaching into his pocket."

And, let's add that if there's an active shooter in a school with 3,000 students, a while lot of them are going to be "charging" in the direction of any potential Good Samaritan while yelling and screaming and reaching in their pocket for cell phones to call 911.

Sad you can't tell the difference in those two situations.

You're right. A typical active shooter situation in a crowded school requires a lot more careful attention and better judgment that a one-on-one confrontation with a delivery customer. And I would venture that the overwhelming majority of teachers who might be thrust into that situation hadn't been in anything similar before. Yet, you think they would react coolly, calmly, and accurately. It's amazing how all the law enforcement and education professionals seem to differ from Bruce Willis wannabes like BiT and Trump.

[BackInTex]

And, let's add that if there's an active shooter in a school with 3,000 students, a while lot of them are going to be "charging" in the direction of any potential Good Samaritan while yelling and screaming and reaching in their pocket for cell phones to call 911.

Sad you can't tell the difference in those two situations.

You're right. A typical active shooter situation in a crowded school requires a lot more careful attention and better judgment that a one-on-one confrontation with a delivery customer. And I would venture that the overwhelming majority of teachers who might be thrust into that situation hadn't been in anything similar before. Yet, you think they would react coolly, calmly, and accurately. It's amazing how all the law enforcement and education professionals seem to differ from Bruce Willis wannabes like BiT and Trump.

Two examples worth thinking about:

Scot Peterson - armed officer at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School did nothing, including shoot an innocent student. He shot no one.
Aaron Feis - unarmed staff (coach and teacher) at the same school, ran towards the shooter, protecting other students. No doubt had he been armed, the situation would have ended differently.

No one knows how someone will act in a certain situation but there are plenty of examples here in Texas where a CHL holder has stepped up and successfully stopped an armed suspect.

There are many examples of men protecting others, in the face of danger, men who have been officially trained, and men who have not. People see themselves within their worldviews. I guess that explains the difference in how you and I view things. You see men cowering, running, panicking, shooting indiscriminately. I see men, like Aaron Feis, charging into danger, doing what they need to do to protect those they care about. As Chris Kyle said, there are three types of men: Wolves, sheep, and sheep dogs.

[silverscreenselect]

Two examples worth thinking about:

Scot Peterson - armed officer at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School did nothing, including shoot an innocent student. He shot no one.
Aaron Feis - unarmed staff (coach and teacher) at the same school, ran towards the shooter, protecting other students. No doubt had he been armed, the situation would have ended differently.

No one knows how someone will act in a certain situation but there are plenty of examples here in Texas where a CHL holder has stepped up and successfully stopped an armed suspect.

There are many examples of men protecting others, in the face of danger, men who have been officially trained, and men who have not. People see themselves within their worldviews. I guess that explains the difference in how you and I view things. You see men cowering, running, panicking, shooting indiscriminately. I see men, like Aaron Feis, charging into danger, doing what they need to do to protect those they care about. As Chris Kyle said, there are three types of men: Wolves, sheep, and sheep dogs.

My guess is that Chris Kyle would have been better equipped to handle this situation than most people. We don't have very many Chris Kyles as high school teachers (and even Chris Kyle wasn't able to protect himself when he really need to either).

Here's what some people with actual experience have to say:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 9fc49b05d9

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tr ... ea-n850286

https://taskandpurpose.com/combat-vets- ... shootings/

[silverscreenselect]

I see men, like Aaron Feis, charging into danger, doing what they need to do to protect those they care about.

No, you see men like Aaron Fels and imagine if he had a gun this would have been Die Hard 2. I'm not questioning his heroism, but I'd rather rely on those who are experts on the subject and not merely politicians who are shilling for a gun-selling lobby like the NRA. You dismiss the cases in which kids get hold of guns that teachers bring to school or when teachers accidentally shoot themselves or others or even what would happen if police had come across an armed Aaron Fels trying to locate the shooter.

[BackInTex]

Two examples worth thinking about:

Scot Peterson - armed officer at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School did nothing, including shoot an innocent student. He shot no one.
Aaron Feis - unarmed staff (coach and teacher) at the same school, ran towards the shooter, protecting other students. No doubt had he been armed, the situation would have ended differently.

No one knows how someone will act in a certain situation but there are plenty of examples here in Texas where a CHL holder has stepped up and successfully stopped an armed suspect.

There are many examples of men protecting others, in the face of danger, men who have been officially trained, and men who have not. People see themselves within their worldviews. I guess that explains the difference in how you and I view things. You see men cowering, running, panicking, shooting indiscriminately. I see men, like Aaron Feis, charging into danger, doing what they need to do to protect those they care about. As Chris Kyle said, there are three types of men: Wolves, sheep, and sheep dogs.

My guess is that Chris Kyle would have been better equipped to handle this situation than most people. We don't have very many Chris Kyles as high school teachers (and even Chris Kyle wasn't able to protect himself when he really need to either).

Here's what some people with actual experience have to say:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 9fc49b05d9

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tr ... ea-n850286

https://taskandpurpose.com/combat-vets- ... shootings/

None of those people have had experience in school shootings. None of them.

[silverscreenselect]

None of those people have had experience in school shootings. None of them.

And what is your experience with school shootings? Or Donald Trump's?

[BackInTex]

None of those people have had experience in school shootings. None of them.

And what is your experience with school shootings? Or Donald Trump's?

For me, the same as those you think know better. For Trump, he's actually sat down and had discussion with those who had first hand experience.