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 Post subject: On Dunkirk
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:20 pm 
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I started watching Dunkirk and I was immediately reminded of my visceral hatred for this movie as described in earlier posts. "The Enemy????!!!!"

We are dishonouring a generation of men who called "The Enemy" by his real name-Gerry, Fritz, Kraut, whatever. The enemy had a face and a name.

Once again, GMF in "Quartered Safe Out Here" describes the troops joking on the one and only occasion that he saw a Japanese plane and saying "There's a Nip in the air." That is what these guys called "The Enemy."


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 Post subject: Re: On Dunkirk
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:34 pm 
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Spock wrote:
We are dishonouring a generation of men who called "The Enemy" by his real name-Gerry, Fritz, Kraut, whatever. The enemy had a face and a name.


You missed Nolan's entire point. Everyone knows who the enemy was (and there was even a map with swastikas on it to give a hint if needed). The entire purpose of not referring to the enemy as Germans (or even showing them until the last minute of the film) was to keep the emphasis on the British troops and their efforts at survival. The fact that the Germans were unseen and unnamed until bullets came flying from seemingly nowhere made the experience of the men on the beach that much scarier. Dunkirk wasn't about fighting a battle in the conventional sense; it was about staying alive until they could get back to England and form a cohesive fighting force again.

Nolan gave a view of the battle that few war films ever do, showing just how harrowing an experience it was for the trapped troops.

And, since George MacDonald Fraser wasn't at Dunkirk, I'm not sure what relevance how they referred to the Japanese at other times in the war has to what went on at Dunkirk. Spock, if you would read what people who have expertise about a subject have to say rather than merely people whose writing you like, you would probably be better informed.

Here's what Michael Korda, who has some expertise on the subject, has to say about Dunkirk:

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Germans are never mentioned, nobody in the film ever mentions the Germans! That also makes sense because [the movie is] not about that. It's about survival on the beach, and I don't suppose that anybody gave a thought about the Germans. They were simply the people who were shooting at you. [Nolan] does all that very, very well.


https://www.gq.com/story/dunkirk-accord ... -historian

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 Post subject: Re: On Dunkirk
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:55 am 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
And, since George MacDonald Fraser wasn't at Dunkirk, I'm not sure what relevance how they referred to the Japanese at other times in the war has to what went on at Dunkirk. Spock, if you would read what people who have expertise about a subject have to say rather than merely people whose writing you like, you would probably be better informed.

Here's what Michael Korda, who has some expertise on the subject, has to say about Dunkirk:
What first-hand expertise does he have that Fraser doesn't? He was 6 years old during this battle.

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 Post subject: Re: On Dunkirk
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:56 am 
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Estonut wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
And, since George MacDonald Fraser wasn't at Dunkirk, I'm not sure what relevance how they referred to the Japanese at other times in the war has to what went on at Dunkirk. Spock, if you would read what people who have expertise about a subject have to say rather than merely people whose writing you like, you would probably be better informed.

Here's what Michael Korda, who has some expertise on the subject, has to say about Dunkirk:
What first-hand expertise does he have that Fraser doesn't? He was 6 years old during this battle.


I didn't say first hand expertise; I said expertise.

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 Post subject: Re: On Dunkirk
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:29 am 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
Estonut wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
And, since George MacDonald Fraser wasn't at Dunkirk, I'm not sure what relevance how they referred to the Japanese at other times in the war has to what went on at Dunkirk. Spock, if you would read what people who have expertise about a subject have to say rather than merely people whose writing you like, you would probably be better informed.

Here's what Michael Korda, who has some expertise on the subject, has to say about Dunkirk:
What first-hand expertise does he have that Fraser doesn't? He was 6 years old during this battle.
I didn't say first hand expertise; I said expertise.
You pooh-poohed Fraser's writing since he wasn't there. I was pointing out that the "expert" you provided wasn't there, either.

silverscreenselect, if you would read what people who have expertise about a subject have to say rather than merely people whose writing you like, you would probably be better informed.

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 Post subject: Re: On Dunkirk
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:40 am 
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Estonut wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
Estonut wrote:
What first-hand expertise does he have that Fraser doesn't? He was 6 years old during this battle.
I didn't say first hand expertise; I said expertise.
You pooh-poohed Fraser's writing since he wasn't there. I was pointing out that the "expert" you provided wasn't there, either.

silverscreenselect, if you would read what people who have expertise about a subject have to say rather than merely people whose writing you like, you would probably be better informed.


Korda wasn't at Dunkirk, but he's written an acclaimed 500 page history of the evacuation that is based in part on a large number of personal accounts from people who were there. Fraser's book is a memoir of his own experiences in Burma, also acclaimed, and it provides a very good picture of what he experienced, but extrapolating from what he and his fellow troops called the Japanese to how people on the beaches in Dunkirk felt about that particular battle is flimsy. I would bow to Korda's expertise on that particular subject.

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 Post subject: Re: On Dunkirk
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:45 pm 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
Estonut wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
I didn't say first hand expertise; I said expertise.
You pooh-poohed Fraser's writing since he wasn't there. I was pointing out that the "expert" you provided wasn't there, either.

silverscreenselect, if you would read what people who have expertise about a subject have to say rather than merely people whose writing you like, you would probably be better informed.
Korda wasn't at Dunkirk, but he's written an acclaimed 500 page history of the evacuation that is based in part on a large number of personal accounts from people who were there. Fraser's book is a memoir of his own experiences in Burma, also acclaimed, and it provides a very good picture of what he experienced, but extrapolating from what he and his fellow troops called the Japanese to how people on the beaches in Dunkirk felt about that particular battle is flimsy. I would bow to Korda's expertise on that particular subject.
Then don't start your argument with, "And, since George MacDonald Fraser wasn't at Dunkirk..."

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