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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:15 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
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If I wanted to fire Robert Mueller in December, as reported by the Failing New York Times, I would have fired him. Just more Fake News from a biased newspaper


I guess that blows your "evidence" out of the water, bob-tel.


No, that blows Trump's credibility out of the water (that's assuming he had a scintilla of credibility left).

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:07 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
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If I wanted to fire Robert Mueller in December, as reported by the Failing New York Times, I would have fired him. Just more Fake News from a biased newspaper


I guess that blows your "evidence" out of the water, bob-tel.
News flash: Donny is a flocking liar. You can't believe anything he says. --Bob

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:43 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
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If I wanted to fire Robert Mueller in December, as reported by the Failing New York Times, I would have fired him. Just more Fake News from a biased newspaper


I guess that blows your "evidence" out of the water, bob-tel.
News flash: Donny is a flocking liar. You can't believe anything he says. --Bob


Or as James Comey says, "untethered to truth."

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:49 am 
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Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
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If I wanted to fire Robert Mueller in December, as reported by the Failing New York Times, I would have fired him. Just more Fake News from a biased newspaper


I guess that blows your "evidence" out of the water, bob-tel.
News flash: Donny is a flocking liar. You can't believe anything he says. --Bob


I understand that is your opinion. In reality, neither Mueller or Rosenstein have yet been fired. Whether he 'seriously considered' firing one or both of them or not, it has not occurred. So your argument is totally moot.
trump has lied on several occasions. I take everything he says with a salt shaker full of salt. But he is not the only one in Washington, or in the MSM, who plays with fast and loose with the truth. You do a fairly good job at it too, bob-tel. I take a pretty big dose of salt with all the completely biased propaganda that passes for reporting these days. We will probably never know what the truth is. The question is: who will win in the end? trump or the swamp? One thing is for sure, we the people are already the ultimate loser no matter who wins this fight.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:25 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
The question is: who will win in the end? trump or the swamp?
False dichotomy. Donny IS the swamp. --Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:33 am 
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Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
The question is: who will win in the end? trump or the swamp?
False dichotomy. Donny IS the swamp. --Bob


I disrespectfully disagree. Trump managed to get elected mainly because a large number of us are fed up with Washington. He might not be the best solution, but at least he knows what the main problem is.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:46 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
He might not be the best solution, but at least he knows what the main problem is.


He should know it; he stares at it in the mirror every day.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:17 am 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
He might not be the best solution, but at least he knows what the main problem is.


He should know it; he stares at it in the mirror every day.

What? Are you in kindergarten?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:21 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
He might not be the best solution, but at least he knows what the main problem is.


He should know it; he stares at it in the mirror every day.

What? Are you in kindergarten?


Have you taken a serious look at the people that Trump has appointed to various positions. He has installed a giant pipeline from the swamp right into the Oval Office.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:30 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
The question is: who will win in the end? trump or the swamp?
False dichotomy. Donny IS the swamp. --Bob


I disrespectfully disagree. Trump managed to get elected mainly because a large number of us are fed up with Washington. He might not be the best solution, but at least he knows what the main problem is.

Yeah, he knew what to tell you what you wanted to hear, then installed the worst possible choices for his cabinet and agency heads.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:05 am 
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Bob Juch wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
False dichotomy. Donny IS the swamp. --Bob


I disrespectfully disagree. Trump managed to get elected mainly because a large number of us are fed up with Washington. He might not be the best solution, but at least he knows what the main problem is.

Yeah, he knew what to tell you what you wanted to hear, then installed the worst possible choices for his cabinet and agency heads.

The worst may be Rick Perry as Secretary of Energy. Aside from being a dumbass, Perry said in 2012 that he wanted to eliminate the department. Well, he would have said it, but that was the one he could not think of.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:41 am 
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elwoodblues wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:

I disrespectfully disagree. Trump managed to get elected mainly because a large number of us are fed up with Washington. He might not be the best solution, but at least he knows what the main problem is.

Yeah, he knew what to tell you what you wanted to hear, then installed the worst possible choices for his cabinet and agency heads.

The worst may be Rick Perry as Secretary of Energy. Aside from being a dumbass, Perry said in 2012 that he wanted to eliminate the department. Well, he would have said it, but that was the one he could not think of.
From a "swamp" perspective, there are worse picks. Pruitt is standing out right now as passing up few, if any, opportunities to pad his friends' pockets at taxpayers' expense, and firing, demoting, or reassigning those who are trying to make him follow the rules. In short, he's acting exactly like Donny. No wonder he still has his job. --Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:11 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
elwoodblues wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
Yeah, he knew what to tell you what you wanted to hear, then installed the worst possible choices for his cabinet and agency heads.

The worst may be Rick Perry as Secretary of Energy. Aside from being a dumbass, Perry said in 2012 that he wanted to eliminate the department. Well, he would have said it, but that was the one he could not think of.
From a "swamp" perspective, there are worse picks. Pruitt is standing out right now as passing up few, if any, opportunities to pad his friends' pockets at taxpayers' expense, and firing, demoting, or reassigning those who are trying to make him follow the rules. In short, he's acting exactly like Donny. No wonder he still has his job. --Bob


Now you are changing the subject. What the flocking hell do you think trump did with the russians? Isn't that what this thing is all about?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:20 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Now you are changing the subject. What the flocking hell do you think trump did with the russians? Isn't that what this thing is all about?
No, it's not. Donny's illegal acceptance of campaign help from a hostile foreign power is only part of the investigation.

Got a problem with that? Recall that Kenneth Starr was originally appointed to investigate Whitewater, and ended up with Monica Lewinski's blue dress in his hands.

But you're right that Pruitt's misconduct probably isn't part of Mueller's investigation and Donny's refusal to fire him is just (in my view) politically corrupt but far short of criminal, or even impeachable. It just undercuts the political narrative you advanced above, that Donny needs to survive the investigation so he can clean the swamp. Donny won't ever clean the swamp because (as his behavior demonstrates every day) he is the swamp. --Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Now you are changing the subject. What the flocking hell do you think trump did with the russians? Isn't that what this thing is all about?
No, it's not. Donny's illegal acceptance of campaign help from a hostile foreign power is only part of the investigation.

Got a problem with that? Recall that Kenneth Starr was originally appointed to investigate Whitewater, and ended up with Monica Lewinski's blue dress in his hands.

But you're right that Pruitt's misconduct probably isn't part of Mueller's investigation and Donny's refusal to fire him is just (in my view) politically corrupt but far short of criminal, or even impeachable. It just undercuts the political narrative you advanced above, that Donny needs to survive the investigation so he can clean the swamp. Donny won't ever clean the swamp because (as his behavior demonstrates every day) he is the swamp. --Bob


What political narrative did I advance? I was just asking what is the specific crime trump is being accused of.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:48 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
What political narrative did I advance? I was just asking what is the specific crime trump is being accused of.



That's just it. They haven't found one yet. Of course they've been looking and cutting deals for only 14 months.

They are hoping, if they look long enough and hard enough he'll eventually break one......and then they've got him!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:47 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
That's just it. They haven't found one yet. Of course they've been looking and cutting deals for only 14 months.


Well, unless you've got some visibility in Mueller's office that the rest of us don't have, you don't know what his investigators have or haven't found.

What any good prosecutor does, especially if it's a case of the integrity of our national election process, is to gather as much information as possible and then bring the hammer down. Mueller has been very good about keeping secrets. Remember George Papadapolous. Try to find any mention of him before the date of his guilty plea. He was completely under the radar, and we now know that he had a substantial number of contacts with Russians while he was involved in the Trump campaign.

Mueller doesn't act like he's a man grasping at straws. Instead, it's the Trump people who are acting as if they are scared to death of what Mueller might do (and with good reason).

Remember Whitewater? That special investigation lasted four years, and there wasn't nearly that much flak, if any, out of Clinton and his followers to shut it down.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:59 pm 
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I think Trump is just jacking with everyone re:fire? not fire? Push them to get on with it, yada yada.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Trump's new lawyer Giuliani has a novel explanation of the Stormy Daniels payment. Cohen didn't do it as a personal favor. It was a legal service, and he was repaid from his monthly retainer. So no illegal campaign contribution.

This makes more sense than anything Cohen himself said, which doesn't surprise me. But the raid on Cohen's office was before Giuliani came on board, so the FBI can tell if this new explanation fits the facts.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 1:41 pm 
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jarnon wrote:
Trump's new lawyer Giuliani has a novel explanation of the Stormy Daniels payment. Cohen didn't do it as a personal favor. It was a legal service, and he was repaid from his monthly retainer. So no illegal campaign contribution.

This makes more sense than anything Cohen himself said, which doesn't surprise me. But the raid on Cohen's office was before Giuliani came on board, so the FBI can tell if this new explanation fits the facts.


Actually, not. Paying hush money to someone is not a legal service. So, listing the payments as such would be fraudulent, especially if Trump attempted to deduct them on his tax return. And the transaction would be considered a campaign contribution under current campaign financing law. In addition, it appears that what Cohen did is a violation of New York Bar rules as well. Plus, Giuliani's grandstanding has made it worse, since it essentially constitutes a confession by Trump to making an illegal contribution.

But that's not the worse news for the President today. It now turns out that the Feds bugged Michael Cohen's phones and recorded at least one call between him and Trump. Michael Avenatti confirmed the unnamed sources in the original NBC report and added that Cohen's text messages were recorded as well.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 577512002/

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 4:43 pm 
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Lots of people will be upset. Lots of other people will think it's an example of over-reach. In the next few weeks, it will be revealed that Trump has done this many times, with many other women (paying them money in exchange for their silence). That will establish a pattern, which will give Trump's legal team a defense against the campaign finance violation charge. If you have a habit of paying hush money to tramps that you have sex with, then paying one more is not a campaign contribution. And Trump's defenders will buy that explanation.

Mark my words.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:55 pm 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
jarnon wrote:
Trump's new lawyer Giuliani has a novel explanation of the Stormy Daniels payment. Cohen didn't do it as a personal favor. It was a legal service, and he was repaid from his monthly retainer. So no illegal campaign contribution.

This makes more sense than anything Cohen himself said, which doesn't surprise me. But the raid on Cohen's office was before Giuliani came on board, so the FBI can tell if this new explanation fits the facts.


Actually, not. Paying hush money to someone is not a legal service. So, listing the payments as such would be fraudulent, especially if Trump attempted to deduct them on his tax return. And the transaction would be considered a campaign contribution under current campaign financing law. In addition, it appears that what Cohen did is a violation of New York Bar rules as well. Plus, Giuliani's grandstanding has made it worse, since it essentially constitutes a confession by Trump to making an illegal contribution.

But that's not the worse news for the President today. It now turns out that the Feds bugged Michael Cohen's phones and recorded at least one call between him and Trump. Michael Avenatti confirmed the unnamed sources in the original NBC report and added that Cohen's text messages were recorded as well.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 577512002/
NBC News has corrected its story. It was a pen log, not a wiretap. They know what calls were made but they weren't able to listen to what was said. --Bob

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:54 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
But that's not the worse news for the President today. It now turns out that the Feds bugged Michael Cohen's phones and recorded at least one call between him and Trump. Michael Avenatti confirmed the unnamed sources in the original NBC report and added that Cohen's text messages were recorded as well.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 577512002/
NBC News has corrected its story. It was a pen log, not a wiretap. They know what calls were made but they weren't able to listen to what was said. --Bob
That makes more sense. To get a warrant to tap the President's personal lawyer, they'd need very strong probable cause, like a corpse on his office floor.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:59 pm 
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jarnon wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
But that's not the worse news for the President today. It now turns out that the Feds bugged Michael Cohen's phones and recorded at least one call between him and Trump. Michael Avenatti confirmed the unnamed sources in the original NBC report and added that Cohen's text messages were recorded as well.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 577512002/
NBC News has corrected its story. It was a pen log, not a wiretap. They know what calls were made but they weren't able to listen to what was said. --Bob
That makes more sense. To get a warrant to tap the President's personal lawyer, they'd need very strong probable cause, like a corpse on his office floor.

An unnamed source familiar with the situation has reported there was a corpse on the floor.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:03 am 
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Here's the oddest story so far about the evidence the FBI seized. I'll paste the whole thing because a link may not work.
New York Times wrote:
Michael Cohen Secretly Taped Trump Discussing Payment to Playboy Model

By Matt Apuzzo, Maggie Haberman and Michael S. Schmidt

WASHINGTON — President Trump’s longtime lawyer, Michael D. Cohen, secretly recorded a conversation with Mr. Trump two months before the presidential election in which they discussed payments to a former Playboy model who said she had an affair with Mr. Trump, according to lawyers and others familiar with the recording.

The F.B.I. seized the recording this year during a raid on Mr. Cohen’s office. The Justice Department is investigating Mr. Cohen’s involvement in paying women to tamp down embarrassing news stories about Mr. Trump ahead of the 2016 election. Prosecutors want to know whether that violated federal campaign finance laws, and any conversation with Mr. Trump about those payments would be of keen interest to them.

The recording’s existence further draws Mr. Trump into questions about tactics he and his associates used to keep aspects of his personal and business life a secret. And it highlights the potential legal and political danger that Mr. Cohen represents to Mr. Trump. Once the keeper of many of Mr. Trump’s secrets, Mr. Cohen is now seen as increasingly willing to consider cooperating with prosecutors.

Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer, confirmed in a telephone conversation on Friday that Mr. Trump had discussed the payments with Mr. Cohen on the tape but said the payment was ultimately never made. He said the recording was less than two minutes and demonstrated that the president had done nothing wrong.

“Nothing in that conversation suggests that he had any knowledge of it in advance,” Mr. Giuliani said, adding that Mr. Trump had directed Mr. Cohen that if he were to make a payment related to the woman, write a check, rather than sending cash, so it could be properly documented.

“In the big scheme of things, it’s powerful exculpatory evidence,” Mr. Giuliani said.

Mr. Cohen’s lawyers discovered the recording as part of their review of the seized materials and shared it with Mr. Trump’s lawyers, according to three people briefed on the matter.

“We have nothing to say on this matter,” Mr. Cohen’s lawyer, Lanny J. Davis, said when asked about the tape.

The former model, Karen McDougal, says she began a nearly yearlong affair with Mr. Trump in 2006, shortly after Mr. Trump’s wife, Melania, gave birth to their son Barron. Ms. McDougal sold her story to The National Enquirer for $150,000 during the final months of the presidential campaign, but the tabloid sat on the story, which kept it from becoming public. The practice, known as “catch and kill,” effectively silenced Ms. McDougal for the remainder of the campaign.

David J. Pecker, the chairman of The Enquirer’s parent company, is a friend of Mr. Trump’s, and Ms. McDougal has accused Mr. Cohen of secretly taking part in the deal — an allegation that is now part of the F.B.I. investigation.

When The Wall Street Journal revealed the existence of the payment days before the election, Mr. Trump’s campaign spokeswoman, Hope Hicks, said, “We have no knowledge of any of this.” She said Ms. McDougal’s claim of an affair was “totally untrue.”

Follow-up: Another Times article says the Justice Dept. has to decide whether the Enquirer's payment was a legitimate journalistic decision, protected by the 1st Amendment. If it was done to help the Trump campaign, in coordination with Cohen, it could be an illegal corporate campaign contribution. Also, anyone notice the publisher's name (heh, heh, heh)?


Last edited by jarnon on Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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