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 Post subject: R.I.P. Alfie Evans
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:51 pm 
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Alfie Evans, British toddler who sparked medical ethics debate, dies

Denied oxygen, food, and water, he lived for 5 days after being taken off life support. Yet, no murder charges will be forthcoming. Not the healthcare model I want.

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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P. Alfie Evans
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:31 pm 
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In the United States, the decision would largely be his parents'. Assuming, of course, that they either had adequate insurance or the resources to fund his care. If uninsured, though, their kid would either need Medicaid or charity. Lots and lots of charity. And that would likely be true even if the kid's ailment was survivable.

I'm not sure why on the one hand you're uncomfortable with the government making this decision but on the other hand you're fine with profit-motivated insurance carriers making it. --Bob

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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P. Alfie Evans
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:47 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
I'm not sure why on the one hand you're uncomfortable with the government making this decision but on the other hand you're fine with profit-motivated insurance carriers making it. --Bob


You're being obtuse.

Part of the story is the government holding the child hostage while denying care that others had offered to pay for. The government would not let them take the child out of the country where others were willing to pay for what the government would not.

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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P. Alfie Evans
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:35 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
I'm not sure why on the one hand you're uncomfortable with the government making this decision but on the other hand you're fine with profit-motivated insurance carriers making it. --Bob


You're being obtuse.

Part of the story is the government holding the child hostage while denying care that others had offered to pay for. The government would not let them take the child out of the country where others were willing to pay for what the government would not.
But you connected it to Britain's health insurance system. The one has nothing to do with the other. --Bob

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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P. Alfie Evans
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:33 am 
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By all accounts this child was brain-dead & had an irreversible condition. I don't follow the complete rationale as to why the parents weren't allowed to take him to die somewhere else, but if murder charges were filed against every medical institution who disconnected a brain-dead person, that would be a lot of charges.

I had a co-worker who was so badly impressed by the Terry Schiavo case that when the co-worker was told they would have to cart an oxygen tank around with them, they refused it. And died. With their "quality of life" intact. I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P. Alfie Evans
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:55 am 
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Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
I'm not sure why on the one hand you're uncomfortable with the government making this decision but on the other hand you're fine with profit-motivated insurance carriers making it. --Bob


You're being obtuse.

Part of the story is the government holding the child hostage while denying care that others had offered to pay for. The government would not let them take the child out of the country where others were willing to pay for what the government would not.
But you connected it to Britain's health insurance system. The one has nothing to do with the other. --Bob


Because the government was doing so only to protect the "integrity" of its wonderful healthcare system. It's all connected.

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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P. Alfie Evans
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:30 am 
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BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:

You're being obtuse.

Part of the story is the government holding the child hostage while denying care that others had offered to pay for. The government would not let them take the child out of the country where others were willing to pay for what the government would not.
But you connected it to Britain's health insurance system. The one has nothing to do with the other. --Bob


Because the government was doing so only to protect the "integrity" of its wonderful healthcare system. It's all connected.
If you're right (and that sounds like pure speculation on your part), then we're back to my point. I'd rather have parents making these decisions, but leaving them in the government's hands is far better than leaving them in the hands of profit-driven insurance companies. The government can and will respond to public pressure. Private profit-driven insurance companies do not.

I wonder, though, how do you feel about government interference in health care decisions when you agree with the government and disagree with the family member with the right to make the decision? I have in mind Terri Schiavo. --Bob

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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P. Alfie Evans
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:44 am 
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BackInTex wrote:
Because the government was doing so only to protect the "integrity" of its wonderful healthcare system. It's all connected.


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Under British law, courts are asked to intervene when parents and doctors disagree on the treatment of a child. In such cases, the rights of the child take primacy over the parents' right to decide what's best for their offspring.


Right or wrong, the court made a decision on what it felt were the best interests of the child. And, as Bob said, if this were the United States and the insurance company decided to cut off paying for hospital care, Evans' family would have been out of luck unless they were quite wealthy.

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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P. Alfie Evans
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:49 am 
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I know it's impossible to get a non-political response around here any more, but I am genuinely curious. How would a child with the same condition as Alfie's get treatment here in the U.S.? I haven't seen anyone with knowledge of the health systems of both countries try to make a comparison.

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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P. Alfie Evans
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:17 pm 
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mrkelley23 wrote:
I know it's impossible to get a non-political response around here any more, but I am genuinely curious. How would a child with the same condition as Alfie's get treatment here in the U.S.? I haven't seen anyone with knowledge of the health systems of both countries try to make a comparison.
Here’s a heartbreaking story of an American girl who’s either been dead for years or is clinging to life.

What Does It Mean to Die?


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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P. Alfie Evans
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:28 pm 
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To me the true horror story of the girl in the article is that she was completely ignored by the hospital she was *in* as she got progressively worse.


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 Post subject: Re: R.I.P. Alfie Evans
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:33 am 
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Sadly, a 15-year-old New Jersey boy with similar problems, Areen Chakrabarti, passed away Tuesday. He was on a ventilator since April. New Jersey law says a patient can be kept on life support even after brain death if that's their religious belief. Areen's family is Hindu.


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