Melania hosts military wives.

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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#126 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri May 18, 2018 11:03 am

Well, it may be clear to you what he was referring to, but it certainly wasn't clear to most people who weren't already firmly on the Trump bandwagon.
Let me be very clear to you, SSS. I am NOT on the trump bandwagon. I am just not a hater. There's a difference, and I would appreciate if you would stop including me in your identity groups.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#127 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri May 18, 2018 11:42 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote: Why should I believe what my eyes see and my ears hear when I can have Rush Limbaugh and Fox News interpret it for me?
Fixed it for you.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#128 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri May 18, 2018 11:46 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote: I am NOT on the trump bandwagon. I am just not a hater.
I'm not exactly sure what percentage of the time supporting, justifying, explaining the real meaning, and denying anything negative about Trump is required to be on the Trump bandwagon, but the percentage of correlation between your posts and views and those of people on the Trump bandwagon seems to be very high.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#129 Post by Beebs52 » Fri May 18, 2018 11:46 am

[quote="silverscreenselect"][/quote]
Why should I believe what my eyes see and my ears hear when I can have Democratic Underground and George Soros interpret it for me?

Fixed it for you
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#130 Post by Bob Juch » Fri May 18, 2018 11:49 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote: Well, if we want to talk about things not being isolated incidents, let's talk about the Main Stream Media. The latest example is the 'controversy' you brought up. They have gone bonkers claiming trump called all immigrants 'animals' when he clearly was referring to a segment of ILLEGAL immigrants who are MS-13 members or violent criminals, who ARE animals.After more than a year of seeing these blatant attacks or displays of incompetence by the MSM, can we, the public, be blamed for not believing anything that's reported about trump? Can we be blamed for agreeing with trump when he calls the MSM out and labels them as disseminating Fake News?
Well, it may be clear to you what he was referring to, but it certainly wasn't clear to most people who weren't already firmly on the Trump bandwagon.

Trump's entire campaign against the mainstream media is a common tactic used by autocratic rulers all the time. When viewed objectively, and not by people cherrypicking every little factual inconsistency out there, the mainstream media has a pretty good record. Certainly, there is room for improvement, just as there is room for improvement for a president who throws terms like "animal" around when referring to certain groups of people (look up the political effects of dehumanizing groups of people by referring to them at "rats" or "cockroaches" in the past). But the news cycle of today isn't what it was when Woodward and Bernstein could sit on a story for weeks to get it perfect because their only competition was the New York Times who was doing the exact same thing. The 24-hour-news cycle breeds haste and haste leads to errors. But every time I have seen lists of these "mainstream" errors, most of them seem to originate from sources like marginal reporters tweeting out "news" bulletins that never get much traction beyond their Twitter feeds.

Public trust in the media is down, but that's largely on partisan lines. In the most recent comprehensive poll, four in ten Republicans said that any report that paints politicians in a negative light should always be deemed fake news. Republicans don't want to hear bad things about the President so they try to hide it by yelling fake news.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/er ... 64a0d91f6b

Why should I believe what my eyes see and my ears hear when I can have the MSM interpret it for me?
Only 91%? The other 9% must be Faux News.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#131 Post by earendel » Fri May 18, 2018 12:09 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:Well, it may be clear to you what he was referring to, but it certainly wasn't clear to most people who weren't already firmly on the Trump bandwagon.
With all due respect, I think this boils down to a "Yanni vs. Laurel" situation. People hear what they want to hear - or more accurately, they hear what they are predisposed to hear. In this case I would argue that, while not phrased the best (no surprise), the president was just referring to MS-13. Now whether in his mind MS-13 = illegal immigrant, no one can say with certainty. It is certain that the president has used this language ("animals") before to refer to MS-13, such as in a speech in Arizona in 2016. I am no big fan of the president, but I think in this instance the left is overreacting.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#132 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri May 18, 2018 12:20 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote: I am NOT on the trump bandwagon. I am just not a hater.
I'm not exactly sure what percentage of the time supporting, justifying, explaining the real meaning, and denying anything negative about Trump is required to be on the Trump bandwagon, but the percentage of correlation between your posts and views and those of people on the Trump bandwagon seems to be very high.
If being able to discern that the President was referring to MS-13 and not all ILLEGAL immigrants puts me in your identity group of 'trump bandwagon', then so be it. That's your delusion. But I thought we already addressed putting me into groups was a no-no.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#133 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri May 18, 2018 12:21 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
Well, it may be clear to you what he was referring to, but it certainly wasn't clear to most people who weren't already firmly on the Trump bandwagon.

Trump's entire campaign against the mainstream media is a common tactic used by autocratic rulers all the time. When viewed objectively, and not by people cherrypicking every little factual inconsistency out there, the mainstream media has a pretty good record. Certainly, there is room for improvement, just as there is room for improvement for a president who throws terms like "animal" around when referring to certain groups of people (look up the political effects of dehumanizing groups of people by referring to them at "rats" or "cockroaches" in the past). But the news cycle of today isn't what it was when Woodward and Bernstein could sit on a story for weeks to get it perfect because their only competition was the New York Times who was doing the exact same thing. The 24-hour-news cycle breeds haste and haste leads to errors. But every time I have seen lists of these "mainstream" errors, most of them seem to originate from sources like marginal reporters tweeting out "news" bulletins that never get much traction beyond their Twitter feeds.

Public trust in the media is down, but that's largely on partisan lines. In the most recent comprehensive poll, four in ten Republicans said that any report that paints politicians in a negative light should always be deemed fake news. Republicans don't want to hear bad things about the President so they try to hide it by yelling fake news.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/er ... 64a0d91f6b

Why should I believe what my eyes see and my ears hear when I can have the MSM interpret it for me?
Only 91%? The other 9% must be Faux News.
Housefly.....
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#134 Post by Beebs52 » Fri May 18, 2018 12:41 pm

earendel wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:Well, it may be clear to you what he was referring to, but it certainly wasn't clear to most people who weren't already firmly on the Trump bandwagon.
With all due respect, I think this boils down to a "Yanni vs. Laurel" situation. People hear what they want to hear - or more accurately, they hear what they are predisposed to hear. In this case I would argue that, while not phrased the best (no surprise), the president was just referring to MS-13. Now whether in his mind MS-13 = illegal immigrant, no one can say with certainty. It is certain that the president has used this language ("animals") before to refer to MS-13, such as in a speech in Arizona in 2016. I am no big fan of the president, but I think in this instance the left is overreacting.
Thank you for that.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#135 Post by Bob Juch » Fri May 18, 2018 12:58 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote: I am NOT on the trump bandwagon. I am just not a hater.
I'm not exactly sure what percentage of the time supporting, justifying, explaining the real meaning, and denying anything negative about Trump is required to be on the Trump bandwagon, but the percentage of correlation between your posts and views and those of people on the Trump bandwagon seems to be very high.
If being able to discern that the President was referring to MS-13 and not all ILLEGAL immigrants puts me in your identity group of 'trump bandwagon', then so be it. That's your delusion. But I thought we already addressed putting me into groups was a no-no.
Maybe he was but MS-13 is not a gang of ILLEGAL immigrants.
Last edited by Bob Juch on Fri May 18, 2018 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#136 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri May 18, 2018 12:59 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote: I am NOT on the trump bandwagon. I am just not a hater.
I'm not exactly sure what percentage of the time supporting, justifying, explaining the real meaning, and denying anything negative about Trump is required to be on the Trump bandwagon, but the percentage of correlation between your posts and views and those of people on the Trump bandwagon seems to be very high.
If being able to discern that the President was referring to MS-13 and not all ILLEGAL immigrants puts me in your identity group of 'trump bandwagon', then so be it. That's your delusion. But I thought we already addressed putting me into groups was a no-no.
There are people who register as independents yet wind up voting Democratic or Republican an overwhelming majority of the time. Often, they will say they like to keep "an open mind," but that mind seems to open almost exclusively in one direction That's happened a lot in recent years when someone says, I've had it with the ____ party because of this issue or person and I am now officially an independent, but when you look at their position on the issues and who they actually wind up for, nothing changes.

My question, which was more general than anything else, was whether someone who comes down in support of Trump and on the same side of the issues as Trump an overwhelming percentage of the time is in fact a Trump supporter regardless of how they label themselves. And there are a lot of them in the current Republican party... they tut tut about the tweets or saying something ugly about John McCain, but when push comes to shove, they toe the party line every single time.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#137 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri May 18, 2018 1:18 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
I'm not exactly sure what percentage of the time supporting, justifying, explaining the real meaning, and denying anything negative about Trump is required to be on the Trump bandwagon, but the percentage of correlation between your posts and views and those of people on the Trump bandwagon seems to be very high.
If being able to discern that the President was referring to MS-13 and not all ILLEGAL immigrants puts me in your identity group of 'trump bandwagon', then so be it. That's your delusion. But I thought we already addressed putting me into groups was a no-no.
There are people who register as independents yet wind up voting Democratic or Republican an overwhelming majority of the time. Often, they will say they like to keep "an open mind," but that mind seems to open almost exclusively in one direction That's happened a lot in recent years when someone says, I've had it with the ____ party because of this issue or person and I am now officially an independent, but when you look at their position on the issues and who they actually wind up for, nothing changes.

My question, which was more general than anything else, was whether someone who comes down in support of Trump and on the same side of the issues as Trump an overwhelming percentage of the time is in fact a Trump supporter regardless of how they label themselves. And there are a lot of them in the current Republican party... they tut tut about the tweets or saying something ugly about John McCain, but when push comes to shove, they toe the party line every single time.
I am conservative. Trump is doing some things I agree with. He is also an immature, egotistical jerk. I didn't vote for him, and I can't see me voting for him in the future. I think the reason you need to put me in your box is because you are all in I Hate Trump. If you were more reasonable you could see that despite his demeanor and extremely flawed character, he is not the apocalypse and he has accomplished some good things despite the extreme opposition of partisan Democrats and the biased press.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#138 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri May 18, 2018 1:24 pm

Suggested campaign slogan for Trump/2020:

I am not the apocalypse.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#139 Post by Bob Juch » Fri May 18, 2018 1:30 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:Suggested campaign slogan for Trump/2020:

I am not the apocalypse.
He'd lose a lot of Christian voters that way.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#140 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri May 18, 2018 1:50 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote: If you were more reasonable you could see that despite his demeanor and extremely flawed character, he is not the apocalypse and he has accomplished some good things despite the extreme opposition of partisan Democrats and the biased press.
The "extreme opposition of partisan Democrats" is in most cases a direct consequence of the scorched earth tactics that the Republicans have employed under Trump. A prime example of this was Trumpcare. Unlike Obamacare, which went through numerous hearings and amendments proposed and voted on by Congress (some of which made it into the final bill), the Republicans basically turned Trumpcare into a take it or leave it proposition for Democrats. Under those circumstances, it's not difficult to see why they said leave it.

With Trump and the Republicans unwilling to listen to or accept any input from Democrats, they have no choice but to either acquiesce in everything he wants or engage in "extreme opposition." As for the "biased" press:
Rush Limbaugh wrote:I’ll send you a response, but I don’t need 400 words, I need four: I hope he fails.” ... Everybody thinks it’s outrageous to say. Look, even my staff, “Oh, you can’t do that.” Why not? Why is it any different, what’s new, what is unfair about my saying I hope liberalism fails? Liberalism is our problem. Liberalism is what’s gotten us dangerously close to the precipice here. Why do I want more of it? I don’t care what the Drive-By story is. I would be honored if the Drive-By Media headlined me all day long: “Limbaugh: I Hope Obama Fails.” Somebody’s gotta say it.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#141 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri May 18, 2018 1:56 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote: If you were more reasonable you could see that despite his demeanor and extremely flawed character, he is not the apocalypse and he has accomplished some good things despite the extreme opposition of partisan Democrats and the biased press.
The "extreme opposition of partisan Democrats" is in most cases a direct consequence of the scorched earth tactics that the Republicans have employed under Trump. A prime example of this was Trumpcare. Unlike Obamacare, which went through numerous hearings and amendments proposed and voted on by Congress (some of which made it into the final bill), the Republicans basically turned Trumpcare into a take it or leave it proposition for Democrats. Under those circumstances, it's not difficult to see why they said leave it.

With Trump and the Republicans unwilling to listen to or accept any input from Democrats, they have no choice but to either acquiesce in everything he wants or engage in "extreme opposition." As for the "biased" press:
Rush Limbaugh wrote:I’ll send you a response, but I don’t need 400 words, I need four: I hope he fails.” ... Everybody thinks it’s outrageous to say. Look, even my staff, “Oh, you can’t do that.” Why not? Why is it any different, what’s new, what is unfair about my saying I hope liberalism fails? Liberalism is our problem. Liberalism is what’s gotten us dangerously close to the precipice here. Why do I want more of it? I don’t care what the Drive-By story is. I would be honored if the Drive-By Media headlined me all day long: “Limbaugh: I Hope Obama Fails.” Somebody’s gotta say it.
First of all, Limbaugh said he hoped Obama failed in implementing his liberal policies.
Second of all, Limbaugh is a commentator, not a News Reporter.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#142 Post by Estonut » Sat May 19, 2018 2:13 am

silverscreenselect wrote:The "extreme opposition of partisan Democrats" is in most cases a direct consequence of the scorched earth tactics that the Republicans have employed under Trump.
Bullshit. Why, then did it start on 11/08/2016?
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#143 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat May 19, 2018 5:58 am

Estonut wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:The "extreme opposition of partisan Democrats" is in most cases a direct consequence of the scorched earth tactics that the Republicans have employed under Trump.
Bullshit. Why, then did it start on 11/08/2016?
Because that is when Republicans were able to pass legislation and get it signed into law without any Democratic input whatsoever. Before that, all they could do was stunts like deny a vote on a Supreme Court justice for an entire year. If they rammed legislation through, like the 40 or 50 times they voted to repeal Obamacare, they knew Obama would veto it.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#144 Post by Estonut » Sat May 19, 2018 6:10 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Estonut wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:The "extreme opposition of partisan Democrats" is in most cases a direct consequence of the scorched earth tactics that the Republicans have employed under Trump.
Bullshit. Why, then did it start on 11/08/2016?
Because that is when Republicans were able to pass legislation and get it signed into law without any Democratic input whatsoever. Before that, all they could do was stunts like deny a vote on a Supreme Court justice for an entire year. If they rammed legislation through, like the 40 or 50 times they voted to repeal Obamacare, they knew Obama would veto it.
You're mis-comprehending. The "extreme opposition of partisan Democrats" started the moment you all realized that Hillary had blown it. How can that be "a direct consequence of the scorched earth tactics that the Republicans have employed under Trump" if he was not to take office (and have anyone under him) for another 2½ months?
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#145 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat May 19, 2018 1:52 pm

Estonut wrote: The "extreme opposition of partisan Democrats" started the moment you all realized that Hillary had blown it.
Please provide an example of this so-called "extreme opposition of partisan Democrats." And don't just provide quotes from bloggers and the like. Or people on this Bored.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#146 Post by Estonut » Sun May 20, 2018 1:38 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Estonut wrote: The "extreme opposition of partisan Democrats" started the moment you all realized that Hillary had blown it.
Please provide an example of this so-called "extreme opposition of partisan Democrats." And don't just provide quotes from bloggers and the like. Or people on this Bored.
Why don't those count? You did not exclude them within your statement.
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#147 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun May 20, 2018 3:32 am

Estonut wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
Estonut wrote: The "extreme opposition of partisan Democrats" started the moment you all realized that Hillary had blown it.
Please provide an example of this so-called "extreme opposition of partisan Democrats." And don't just provide quotes from bloggers and the like. Or people on this Bored.
Why don't those count? You did not exclude them within your statement.
Because I thought you were trying to make a serious political point instead of pointing out the obvious about partisans on the Internet (which probably isn't any different from the comments that right wingers made when Obama got elected).
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#148 Post by Estonut » Sun May 20, 2018 5:48 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Estonut wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:Please provide an example of this so-called "extreme opposition of partisan Democrats." And don't just provide quotes from bloggers and the like. Or people on this Bored.
Why don't those count? You did not exclude them within your statement.
Because I thought you were trying to make a serious political point instead of pointing out the obvious about partisans on the Internet (which probably isn't any different from the comments that right wingers made when Obama got elected).
What about the comments YOU made when Obama got elected?
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#149 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun May 20, 2018 7:15 am

Estonut wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
Estonut wrote:Why don't those count? You did not exclude them within your statement.
Because I thought you were trying to make a serious political point instead of pointing out the obvious about partisans on the Internet (which probably isn't any different from the comments that right wingers made when Obama got elected).
What about the comments YOU made when Obama got elected?
Which just goes to show that I'm not a rote left or right winger.
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tlynn78
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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

#150 Post by tlynn78 » Sun May 20, 2018 3:44 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/er ... 64a0d91f6b

Why should I believe what my eyes see and my ears hear when I can have the MSM interpret it for me?
Only 91%? The other 9% must be Faux News.
Housefly.....
If SSS is a housefly, which Bob is that woman at Tom Hardy in Canada?
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