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Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:07 pm
by Bob78164
Beebs52 wrote:Ooh. This is from a correcting dem underground thread responsem Surprise.

https://www.afoscdc.com/jafowl.html
I clicked on your link expecting to find that Bob's picture was in fact an unfair presentation of what's going on. But the picture on the front page of your link gave me considerable pause. I saw exactly 1 woman who appears to be black.

This is apparently some kind of organization for the wives of officers. I have a very hard time believing that so few officers' wives are black. So this causes me to wonder why so few of the participants in this organization appear to be. Did the black members simply decline to participate in the photo opportunity? That's implausible to me, given the relatively conservative politics of most members of the military. Are there really so few black spouses among the ranks of our officers? That right there would be a big problem. Why does that picture depict an organization that appears to be almost entirely white? --Bob

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:27 pm
by silverscreenselect
BackInTex wrote: The difference between you and me, I guess, is I see the glass as almost full and you see it as not quite full.
You see the glass based on your experiences as a white man.

Others see the glass based on different perspectives.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:27 pm
by Beebs52
Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:Ooh. This is from a correcting dem underground thread responsem Surprise.

https://www.afoscdc.com/jafowl.html
I clicked on your link expecting to find that Bob's picture was in fact an unfair presentation of what's going on. But the picture on the front page of your link gave me considerable pause. I saw exactly 1 woman who appears to be black.

This is apparently some kind of organization for the wives of officers. I have a very hard time believing that so few officers' wives are black. So this causes me to wonder why so few of the participants in this organization appear to be. Did the black members simply decline to participate in the photo opportunity? That's implausible to me, given the relatively conservative politics of most members of the military. Are there really so few black spouses among the ranks of our officers? That right there would be a big problem. Why does that picture depict an organization that appears to be almost entirely white? --Bob
The pic wasn't from the event he said it was from. My point.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:34 pm
by BackInTex
Bob78164 wrote:Are there really so few black spouses among the ranks of our officers? That right there would be a big problem.
I'm not saying it is or isn't, but if it is, why would that be a problem, let alone a "big problem"?

I might find it odd or even surprising, but I wouldn't see it as a problem.

Michelle Obama laments little girls dreaming of weddings (22:45 to 23:24). She'd think it fantastic minority women aren't being spouses, especially to military men.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:37 pm
by silverscreenselect
BackInTex wrote: There could be many explanations on why there was no minority representation, among which is statistical. When you are not looking to make sure your photo op is "perfect", because you're more focused on the task at hand and getting results than the perception of tiny minded trolls such as yourself and Juch who look for such things, skin tone distribution may not be representative of the population being represented.
Actually, statistically, it's as near an impossibility as you're going to find. It's the approximate equivalent of winning the Powerball twice in a row.

When you are focused on getting results, you go with people you feel more comfortable with. Just like when companies make hiring and promotion decisions, they go with the people they think will fit in better or be more of a team player. I don't think Ivanka or Melania or whoever was doing the selecting made a conscious decision to exclude black people or other minorities. I do think they probably went through a process that for one reason or another was inherently biased. It's not what BobJ or I think; that's how the laws of statistics and probability work.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:39 pm
by jarnon
Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:Ooh. This is from a correcting dem underground thread responsem Surprise.

https://www.afoscdc.com/jafowl.html
I clicked on your link expecting to find that Bob's picture was in fact an unfair presentation of what's going on. But the picture on the front page of your link gave me considerable pause. I saw exactly 1 woman who appears to be black.

This is apparently some kind of organization for the wives of officers. I have a very hard time believing that so few officers' wives are black. So this causes me to wonder why so few of the participants in this organization appear to be. Did the black members simply decline to participate in the photo opportunity? That's implausible to me, given the relatively conservative politics of most members of the military. Are there really so few black spouses among the ranks of our officers? That right there would be a big problem. Why does that picture depict an organization that appears to be almost entirely white? --Bob
This is just a private organization of officers' wives that invited Ivanka to talk to them. There are many black officers' wives, so either they don't belong to that particular group or weren't interested in meeting Ivanka. That's very different from a White House event to honor military moms.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:00 pm
by BackInTex
silverscreenselect wrote:
BackInTex wrote: The difference between you and me, I guess, is I see the glass as almost full and you see it as not quite full.
You see the glass based on your experiences as a white man.

Others see the glass based on different perspectives.
I see the glass based on what I see around me. I have successful people around me (at work and where I live). White, black, Hispanic, Asian, mixed.

I guess you see the glass based who you see around you. Telling.

For the record, there are four houses in my upper middle-class cul-de-sac. Two families are white, two are black. The political leanings are, from left to right, SuperFlock (white), me (white), ObamaLover (black), unknown politics but strong Christian (black). Economic status are (L to R), blue collar very strong work ethic and thrifty to afford the home, me, hit 00 on the roulette wheel, strong work and education ethic. I have a pretty balanced view of success where I live.

My 00 neighbor, while making sure his kids are in school and doing well, does not participate in their education. He and his wife are never up at school, volunteering or even watching their kids perform in their activities. They made one band competition this past year. It may be disappointment that his kids aren't athletically gifted like the father was or they are too busy doing what they do for themselves. I don't think they get it because their parents didn't. They are continuing what they learned. Their kids, maybe, will pick up on how the other kids' parents are always there for their kids, volunteering, encouraging, cheering. Maybe they will be more involved with their kids. I hope so because I believe it matters and is beneficial to their success.

I also see the other side (of the tracks if you will) via my wife who teaches elementary school at a Title I school. My skin color plays no part in what I see. There are poor whites, Hispanics, and blacks that she teaches. No poor Asian, though. She can tell which kids have a chance to be successful based on the parents. Unfortunately most of them don't have much of a chance as their parents couldn't care less about their educational progress. That is culture, not race. It happens in all of them. Unfortunately is is "inherited".

You put race into everything....every....little.....thing. It is really sad.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:02 pm
by BackInTex
silverscreenselect wrote:
BackInTex wrote: There could be many explanations on why there was no minority representation, among which is statistical. When you are not looking to make sure your photo op is "perfect", because you're more focused on the task at hand and getting results than the perception of tiny minded trolls such as yourself and Juch who look for such things, skin tone distribution may not be representative of the population being represented.
Actually, statistically, it's as near an impossibility as you're going to find. It's the approximate equivalent of winning the Powerball twice in a row.

When you are focused on getting results, you go with people you feel more comfortable with. Just like when companies make hiring and promotion decisions, they go with the people they think will fit in better or be more of a team player. I don't think Ivanka or Melania or whoever was doing the selecting made a conscious decision to exclude black people or other minorities. I do think they probably went through a process that for one reason or another was inherently biased. It's not what BobJ or I think; that's how the laws of statistics and probability work.
I doubt anyone preparing the invitations had pictures of all or knew everyone to invite (or not to).

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:15 pm
by silverscreenselect
BackInTex wrote: That is culture, not race. It happens in all of them. Unfortunately is is "inherited".

You put race into everything....every....little.....thing. It is really sad.
Culture at the parental and family level has a lot to do with success in life. However, at every step of the way, things tend to work out easier for whites than for minorities. It shows in how likely juveniles are to land in the penal system, and even as to who gets called for interviews.

You choose to deny that race ever plays a part in what happens except for those handful of easily identifiable neo-Nazi types that are very easy to differentiate from the rest of society. It is really sad.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:16 pm
by Bob Juch
jarnon wrote:I don't know what event BJ's photo is from, but I got this from the White House YouTube page:



It's called Celebration of Military Mothers and Spouses, so clearly they're being honored. President Trump, along with Melania, is the host. And the ladies are of all races.
The ladies are of all races? Where? Not in your video.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:22 pm
by silverscreenselect
BackInTex wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
BackInTex wrote: There could be many explanations on why there was no minority representation, among which is statistical. When you are not looking to make sure your photo op is "perfect", because you're more focused on the task at hand and getting results than the perception of tiny minded trolls such as yourself and Juch who look for such things, skin tone distribution may not be representative of the population being represented.
Actually, statistically, it's as near an impossibility as you're going to find. It's the approximate equivalent of winning the Powerball twice in a row.

When you are focused on getting results, you go with people you feel more comfortable with. Just like when companies make hiring and promotion decisions, they go with the people they think will fit in better or be more of a team player. I don't think Ivanka or Melania or whoever was doing the selecting made a conscious decision to exclude black people or other minorities. I do think they probably went through a process that for one reason or another was inherently biased. It's not what BobJ or I think; that's how the laws of statistics and probability work.
I doubt anyone preparing the invitations had pictures of all or knew everyone to invite (or not to).
First, my bad on the picture. When I looked this picture up to see the event it pertained to, the first article I found indicated that it was taken in conjunction with the Military Spouse Appreciation Day this week. Instead, it was taken a few months back at a luncheon hosted by the Air Force Spouses of DC, at which Ivanka appeared as a guest speaker. And I don't blame Ivanka or Melania for showing up at such an event which wound up with an overwhelmingly white attendance. That may speak for the organization's membership policies but it's not fair to lay that on Ivanka or Melania.

Having said that my original point is still valid. It's a virtual statistical impossibility by chance to produce 50 women, all of whom are white, for a photo opportunity coming from an overall entity that is 40% minority. It's fair to ask, when the President of the United States and his family are involved about how this came to be.

And I wonder if Michelle Obama had posed for a photo opp with 30-40 black women out of a group that's supposedly bi-racial how that would have played with the right wing crowd?

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 4:15 pm
by Bob78164
jarnon wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:Ooh. This is from a correcting dem underground thread responsem Surprise.

https://www.afoscdc.com/jafowl.html
I clicked on your link expecting to find that Bob's picture was in fact an unfair presentation of what's going on. But the picture on the front page of your link gave me considerable pause. I saw exactly 1 woman who appears to be black.

This is apparently some kind of organization for the wives of officers. I have a very hard time believing that so few officers' wives are black. So this causes me to wonder why so few of the participants in this organization appear to be. Did the black members simply decline to participate in the photo opportunity? That's implausible to me, given the relatively conservative politics of most members of the military. Are there really so few black spouses among the ranks of our officers? That right there would be a big problem. Why does that picture depict an organization that appears to be almost entirely white? --Bob
This is just a private organization of officers' wives that invited Ivanka to talk to them. There are many black officers' wives, so either they don't belong to that particular group or weren't interested in meeting Ivanka. That's very different from a White House event to honor military moms.
Thanks. Knowing that it's a private organization helps, as does knowing that it wasn't an official White House event.

To shed some light on my perspective, I wouldn't find it surprising if, for example, a picture of young Republicans had very few black faces because most black people have self-selected out of the Republican Party. I am curious what kind of organization of officers' wives this is. If the black officers' wives are involved in the group in reasonable numbers but simply weren't interested in meeting Ivanka, then I agree that's an end to the matter. If black officers' wives self-select out of the group, then that's probably an end to the matter. But in our current society, I can't take either of those potential explanations for granted. --Bob

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 4:37 pm
by BackInTex
Bob78164 wrote:But in our current society, I can't take either of those potential explanations for granted [because in order to keep minorities beholden and slaves to my party they must stay convinced that whites, especially Republican whites, are out to get them.] --Bob
Kanye West wrote:Fixed it for you.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 4:46 pm
by BackInTex
silverscreenselect wrote: It's a virtual statistical impossibility by chance to produce 50 women, all of whom are white, for a photo opportunity coming from an overall entity that is 40% minority.
I do not disagree, but the women were not drawn from active military personnel, nor randomly.
silverscreenselect wrote: It's fair to ask, when the President of the United States and his family are involved about how this came to be.
Sure, if you are truly curious and want the truth, to satisfy your own curiosity. But that's not what went down here, by you or Bob J.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 4:57 pm
by flockofseagulls104
And I wonder if Michelle Obama had posed for a photo opp with 30-40 black women out of a group that's supposedly bi-racial how that would have played with the right wing crowd?
Most of the 'right-wing crowd' (whatever the hell that is) wouldn't give a crap. I can only speak for myself. I know I wouldn't care. I have many issues with Michelle Obama and skin color is not one of them. (But subconsciously I really want her to be my slave.)

Only the 'left-wing crowd' and a relatively few shitheads on the right give any importance to the color of a person's skin. And it's really annoying, AH.


Note for the stupid or sarcastically challenged: This is sarcafont.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 5:00 pm
by Bob78164
BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:But in our current society, I can't take either of those potential explanations for granted [because in order to keep minorities beholden and slaves to my party they must stay convinced that whites, especially Republican whites, are out to get them.] --Bob
Kanye West wrote:Fixed it for you.
Do you really think that black Americans need any convincing (beyond their lived experiences and the lived experiences of those close to them) that they operate at a significant disadvantage in our country simply because of their skin color?

When was the last time you were thrown out of a Starbucks for loitering while waiting to start a business meeting? Ever had the cops called on a friend as your friend was moving into his new home? --Bob

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 5:12 pm
by Beebs52
When was the last time you made some sort of effort to remedy what you feel the rightwing assholes like us have done, other than post on a fucking message board? Tell me my sins, oh oracle, and show me the way.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 5:14 pm
by flockofseagulls104
Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:But in our current society, I can't take either of those potential explanations for granted [because in order to keep minorities beholden and slaves to my party they must stay convinced that whites, especially Republican whites, are out to get them.] --Bob
Kanye West wrote:Fixed it for you.
Do you really think that black Americans need any convincing (beyond their lived experiences and the lived experiences of those close to them) that they operate at a significant disadvantage in our country simply because of their skin color?

When was the last time you were thrown out of a Starbucks for loitering while waiting to start a business meeting? Ever had the cops called on a friend as your friend was moving into his new home? --Bob
For every anecdote like this, there are tens of millions of other anecdotes where people of different races, religions, sexual preferences, what have you, are kind to each other and nothing happens. If the 'news' were fair, it would report that fact, but it isn't. It looks for every incident that fits its narrative and uses them to stir up outrage and ratings. Sort of like BJ and AH do.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 5:16 pm
by flockofseagulls104
Beebs52 wrote:When was the last time you made some sort of effort to remedy what you feel the rightwing assholes like us have done, other than post on a fucking message board? Tell me my sins, oh oracle, and show me the way.
Well, I know of 2 things bob-tel has done, He vowed to do everything in his power to get trump out of office, and he threatened to sue me.

PS: Please reserve the word 'asshole' for the person on this bored who has earned that title.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 5:29 pm
by Beebs52
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:When was the last time you made some sort of effort to remedy what you feel the rightwing assholes like us have done, other than post on a fucking message board? Tell me my sins, oh oracle, and show me the way.
Well, I know of 2 things bob-tel has done, He vowed to do everything in his power to get trump out of office, and he threatened to sue me.

PS: Please reserve the word 'asshole' for the person on this bored who has earned that title.
Yes. Well. I want to adhere to the party line dontcha know.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 5:52 pm
by flockofseagulls104
Beebs52 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:When was the last time you made some sort of effort to remedy what you feel the rightwing assholes like us have done, other than post on a fucking message board? Tell me my sins, oh oracle, and show me the way.
Well, I know of 2 things bob-tel has done, He vowed to do everything in his power to get trump out of office, and he threatened to sue me.

PS: Please reserve the word 'asshole' for the person on this bored who has earned that title.
Yes. Well. I want to adhere to the party line dontcha know.
Maybe we can change it to aSSShole.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 6:15 pm
by Bob78164
Beebs52 wrote:When was the last time you made some sort of effort to remedy what you feel the rightwing assholes like us have done, other than post on a fucking message board? Tell me my sins, oh oracle, and show me the way.
I've spent money on groups that I believe contribute to solutions.

But the first step to addressing the issue is to acknowledge that it exists. Or at least to acknowledge the possibility that the problem is real, and not an invention of Democrats hoping for political gain. Based on their posts here, it appears to me that neither BiT nor flock are willing to acknowledge this possibility. Are you? --Bob

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 6:27 pm
by Beebs52
Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:When was the last time you made some sort of effort to remedy what you feel the rightwing assholes like us have done, other than post on a fucking message board? Tell me my sins, oh oracle, and show me the way.
I've spent money on groups that I believe contribute to solutions.

But the first step to addressing the issue is to acknowledge that it exists. Or at least to acknowledge the possibility that the problem is real, and not an invention of Democrats hoping for political gain. Based on their posts here, it appears to me that neither BiT nor flock are willing to acknowledge this possibility. Are you? --Bob
You are a sanctimonious putz. Of course it exists. It doesn't exist in every.single.situation. Ooh. You donate. Aren't you a warrior.

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 6:46 pm
by Bob78164
Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:When was the last time you made some sort of effort to remedy what you feel the rightwing assholes like us have done, other than post on a fucking message board? Tell me my sins, oh oracle, and show me the way.
I've spent money on groups that I believe contribute to solutions.

But the first step to addressing the issue is to acknowledge that it exists. Or at least to acknowledge the possibility that the problem is real, and not an invention of Democrats hoping for political gain. Based on their posts here, it appears to me that neither BiT nor flock are willing to acknowledge this possibility. Are you? --Bob
You are a sanctimonious putz. Of course it exists. It doesn't exist in every.single.situation. Ooh. You donate. Aren't you a warrior.
And the name-calling begins.

The immediate issue is whether it's going on in the case of this particular group. The numbers alone are cause in this case for further inquiry.

Your "Aren't you a warrior" comment seems to be criticizing or mocking me for something, but I'm really not sure what. Would you care to explain? --Bob

Re: Melania hosts military wives.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 6:52 pm
by Beebs52
Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:I've spent money on groups that I believe contribute to solutions.

But the first step to addressing the issue is to acknowledge that it exists. Or at least to acknowledge the possibility that the problem is real, and not an invention of Democrats hoping for political gain. Based on their posts here, it appears to me that neither BiT nor flock are willing to acknowledge this possibility. Are you? --Bob
You are a sanctimonious putz. Of course it exists. It doesn't exist in every.single.situation. Ooh. You donate. Aren't you a warrior.
And the name-calling begins. --Bob
Yes. Tired of the preaching. Do you and your child have black, hispanic, asian, gay friends? We and they do. Is your pedestal strong?