You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#251 Post by BackInTex » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:09 pm

tlynn78 wrote:but that's BiT's quote, not mine.
Actually is it Ben Shapiro's.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#252 Post by BackInTex » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:13 pm

jarnon wrote: The legal entry points are overwhelmed, as is the immigration judicial system.
Why are these people fleeing from gangs and violence in their country of El Slavador (or whichever non-Mexico country), not getting asylum in Mexico?

And if our system is overwhelmed, why is Canada not stepping in and offering to come pickup some of the overflow?

Are we literally the ONLY answer to their plight?

I know the answer. Because it won't help the Democrats build their base and it won't help make Trump look bad.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#253 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:46 pm

There are 2 sides to every story.
While I applaud trump for doing an executive order to try and alleviate the situation, the fact is Congress must fix it. We cannot be governed by executive orders (Thanks, Obama). Charles Schumer is an idiot. He refuses to even participate in fixing the situation because it is a great political tool for him. He hates to waste the overblown outrage that has been produced over this situation.

https://twitter.com/megwagner/status/10 ... 7970518018

Agree with her or not, she makes her case. Goddamn it, Congress, do your job.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#254 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:54 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:There are 2 sides to every story.
While I applaud trump for doing an executive order to try and alleviate the situation, the fact is Congress must fix it. We cannot be governed by executive orders (Thanks, Obama). Charles Schumer is an idiot. He refuses to even participate in fixing the situation because it is a great political tool for him. He hates to waste the overblown outrage that has been produced over this situation.

https://twitter.com/megwagner/status/10 ... 7970518018

Agree with her or not, she makes her case. Goddamn it, Congress, do your job.
Donny gets no credit from me for deciding not to further exacerbate a situation he created. This was a monstrous policy, its effects will continue to be felt for the indefinite future, and Donny is solely to blame for it.

And as for the thousands of kids who have already been separated from their parents, Donny has made the affirmative decision that they and their parents get no relief, and the separation will continue. So he's not even fixing the problem he created. He's just given up on trying to make it worse than his actions have already made it.

As for Congressional action, every member of the Democratic Senate caucus (this includes the two independents) has signed on as a co-sponsor of the Keep Families Together Act. Not one Republican Senator, though. They're all too afraid of Donny. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#255 Post by tlynn78 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:35 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:There are 2 sides to every story.
While I applaud trump for doing an executive order to try and alleviate the situation, the fact is Congress must fix it. We cannot be governed by executive orders (Thanks, Obama). Charles Schumer is an idiot. He refuses to even participate in fixing the situation because it is a great political tool for him. He hates to waste the overblown outrage that has been produced over this situation.

https://twitter.com/megwagner/status/10 ... 7970518018

Agree with her or not, she makes her case. Goddamn it, Congress, do your job.
Donny gets no credit from me for deciding not to further exacerbate a situation he created. This was a monstrous policy, its effects will continue to be felt for the indefinite future, and Donny is solely to blame for it.

And as for the thousands of kids who have already been separated from their parents, Donny has made the affirmative decision that they and their parents get no relief, and the separation will continue. So he's not even fixing the problem he created. He's just given up on trying to make it worse than his actions have already made it.

As for Congressional action, every member of the Democratic Senate caucus (this includes the two independents) has signed on as a co-sponsor of the Keep Families Together Act. Not one Republican Senator, though. They're all too afraid of Donny. --Bob
Tell me, Bob, did you swear to uphold only those laws with which you agree?
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#256 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:38 pm

Donny gets no credit from me for deciding not to further exacerbate a situation he created.
bob-tel. Let's be perfectly clear on this. President Trump did not create this situation. The people who illegally crossed our borders with children, who may or may not be theirs, caused the situation. The solution, if there is one, according to our Constitution, lies in the legislative body, which is Congress, not in Presidential Executive Actions.

That, without the emotion and moral handwringing, is the final answer.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#257 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:44 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:There are 2 sides to every story.
While I applaud trump for doing an executive order to try and alleviate the situation, the fact is Congress must fix it. We cannot be governed by executive orders (Thanks, Obama). Charles Schumer is an idiot. He refuses to even participate in fixing the situation because it is a great political tool for him. He hates to waste the overblown outrage that has been produced over this situation.

https://twitter.com/megwagner/status/10 ... 7970518018

Agree with her or not, she makes her case. Goddamn it, Congress, do your job.
Donny gets no credit from me for deciding not to further exacerbate a situation he created. This was a monstrous policy, its effects will continue to be felt for the indefinite future, and Donny is solely to blame for it.

And as for the thousands of kids who have already been separated from their parents, Donny has made the affirmative decision that they and their parents get no relief, and the separation will continue. So he's not even fixing the problem he created. He's just given up on trying to make it worse than his actions have already made it.

As for Congressional action, every member of the Democratic Senate caucus (this includes the two independents) has signed on as a co-sponsor of the Keep Families Together Act. Not one Republican Senator, though. They're all too afraid of Donny. --Bob
Tell me, Bob, did you swear to uphold only those laws with which you agree?
Tell me, t-girl, do you think that any government anywhere prosecutes absolutely every alleged crime it's aware of? If you think that, maybe you should have a chat with some of the prosecutors who practice in your court.

Donny's been hurting children. He did it deliberately. He did it by choice. And he did it to try to accomplish political goals.

He's stopped doing it for the moment, but as far as I can tell he's doing nothing for the children he's already hurt and he's leaving the door open to doing it again. Any abstract principle that tries to justify that doesn't deserve fidelity. And I have no patience for anyone who tries to justify hurting children for that principle. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#258 Post by tlynn78 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:47 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:Donny gets no credit from me for deciding not to further exacerbate a situation he created. This was a monstrous policy, its effects will continue to be felt for the indefinite future, and Donny is solely to blame for it.

And as for the thousands of kids who have already been separated from their parents, Donny has made the affirmative decision that they and their parents get no relief, and the separation will continue. So he's not even fixing the problem he created. He's just given up on trying to make it worse than his actions have already made it.

As for Congressional action, every member of the Democratic Senate caucus (this includes the two independents) has signed on as a co-sponsor of the Keep Families Together Act. Not one Republican Senator, though. They're all too afraid of Donny. --Bob
Tell me, Bob, did you swear to uphold only those laws with which you agree?
Tell me, t-girl, do you think that any government anywhere prosecutes absolutely every alleged crime it's aware of? If you think that, maybe you should have a chat with some of the prosecutors who practice in your court.

Donny's been hurting children. He did it deliberately. He did it by choice. And he did it to try to accomplish political goals.

He's stopped doing it for the moment, but as far as I can tell he's doing nothing for the children he's already hurt and he's leaving the door open to doing it again. Any abstract principle that tries to justify that doesn't deserve fidelity. And I have no patience for anyone who tries to justify hurting children for that principle. --Bob
That wasn't the question, Bob. Can't answer, or won't. Got it. In it's own way, an answer.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#259 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:54 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
Tell me, Bob, did you swear to uphold only those laws with which you agree?
Tell me, t-girl, do you think that any government anywhere prosecutes absolutely every alleged crime it's aware of? If you think that, maybe you should have a chat with some of the prosecutors who practice in your court.

Donny's been hurting children. He did it deliberately. He did it by choice. And he did it to try to accomplish political goals.

He's stopped doing it for the moment, but as far as I can tell he's doing nothing for the children he's already hurt and he's leaving the door open to doing it again. Any abstract principle that tries to justify that doesn't deserve fidelity. And I have no patience for anyone who tries to justify hurting children for that principle. --Bob
That wasn't the question, Bob. Can't answer, or won't. Got it. In it's own way, an answer.
I didn't swear to uphold any laws at all. I'm not a prosecutor, and that's not my job. My job is to represent my clients, consistently with the laws (including laws for which I can make a good faith argument for reversal) and the rules of court.

None of which has anything to do with choosing to hurt children.

Are you okay with the actions Donny has taken to hurt children, or aren't you? Based on what you've said here, I'm pretty sure you are, but I'll ask the question directly. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#260 Post by Beebs52 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:03 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:Tell me, t-girl, do you think that any government anywhere prosecutes absolutely every alleged crime it's aware of? If you think that, maybe you should have a chat with some of the prosecutors who practice in your court.

Donny's been hurting children. He did it deliberately. He did it by choice. And he did it to try to accomplish political goals.

He's stopped doing it for the moment, but as far as I can tell he's doing nothing for the children he's already hurt and he's leaving the door open to doing it again. Any abstract principle that tries to justify that doesn't deserve fidelity. And I have no patience for anyone who tries to justify hurting children for that principle. --Bob
That wasn't the question, Bob. Can't answer, or won't. Got it. In it's own way, an answer.
I didn't swear to uphold any laws at all. I'm not a prosecutor, and that's not my job. My job is to represent my clients, consistently with the laws (including laws for which I can make a good faith argument for reversal) and the rules of court.

None of which has anything to do with choosing to hurt children.

Are you okay with the actions Donny has taken to hurt children, or aren't you? Based on what you've said here, I'm pretty sure you are, but I'll ask the question directly. --Bob
Vile
Well, then

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#261 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:09 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:Tell me, t-girl, do you think that any government anywhere prosecutes absolutely every alleged crime it's aware of? If you think that, maybe you should have a chat with some of the prosecutors who practice in your court.

Donny's been hurting children. He did it deliberately. He did it by choice. And he did it to try to accomplish political goals.

He's stopped doing it for the moment, but as far as I can tell he's doing nothing for the children he's already hurt and he's leaving the door open to doing it again. Any abstract principle that tries to justify that doesn't deserve fidelity. And I have no patience for anyone who tries to justify hurting children for that principle. --Bob
That wasn't the question, Bob. Can't answer, or won't. Got it. In it's own way, an answer.
I didn't swear to uphold any laws at all. I'm not a prosecutor, and that's not my job. My job is to represent my clients, consistently with the laws (including laws for which I can make a good faith argument for reversal) and the rules of court.

None of which has anything to do with choosing to hurt children.

Are you okay with the actions Donny has taken to hurt children, or aren't you? Based on what you've said here, I'm pretty sure you are, but I'll ask the question directly. --Bob
bob-tel, you are a sick man. I don't know if your trump-hatred has brought this out in you, or if you were this way all along. I had no problem with you before trump was elected. It must be the trump hatred.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#262 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:09 pm

I didn't swear to uphold any laws at all
No kidding.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#263 Post by tlynn78 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:35 pm

Bob78164 wrote:]I didn't swear to uphold any laws at all. I'm not a prosecutor, and that's not my job. My job is to represent my clients, consistently with the laws (including laws for which I can make a good faith argument for reversal) and the rules of court.

None of which has anything to do with choosing to hurt children.

Are you okay with the actions Donny has taken to hurt children, or aren't you? Based on what you've said here, I'm pretty sure you are, but I'll ask the question directly. --Bob
Wow.

https://www.calbarxap.com/applications/ ... n_6068.pdf

"...I will faithfully uphold the duties..." See Section A at the top of the link to refresh yourself on those duties, which include upholding the "Constitution and laws of the United States." Or did you have your fingers crossed behind your back?

My heart breaks for children put in rough situations by the adults in their lives. The adults bringing those children to the US border illegally are the ones responsible. The vast majority of them are fully aware of the risks associated with their actions. As to who is using the situation for political gain, we have very different views on that. Witness the faked and mis-attributed photos of "caged" children, for starters. Flock and BiT are right, Congress must do their job.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#264 Post by Estonut » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:16 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:]I didn't swear to uphold any laws at all. I'm not a prosecutor, and that's not my job. My job is to represent my clients, consistently with the laws (including laws for which I can make a good faith argument for reversal) and the rules of court.

None of which has anything to do with choosing to hurt children.

Are you okay with the actions Donny has taken to hurt children, or aren't you? Based on what you've said here, I'm pretty sure you are, but I'll ask the question directly.
Wow.

https://www.calbarxap.com/applications/ ... n_6068.pdf

"...I will faithfully uphold the duties..." See Section A at the top of the link to refresh yourself on those duties, which include upholding the "Constitution and laws of the United States." Or did you have your fingers crossed behind your back?

My heart breaks for children put in rough situations by the adults in their lives. The adults bringing those children to the US border illegally are the ones responsible. The vast majority of them are fully aware of the risks associated with their actions. As to who is using the situation for political gain, we have very different views on that. Witness the faked and mis-attributed photos of "caged" children, for starters. Flock and BiT are right, Congress must do their job.
T-Girl, he clearly has an out. He swore that he would "support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California, and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of an attorney and counselor at law to the best of my knowledge and ability."
A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#265 Post by Bob Juch » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:20 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:There are 2 sides to every story.
While I applaud trump for doing an executive order to try and alleviate the situation, the fact is Congress must fix it. We cannot be governed by executive orders (Thanks, Obama). Charles Schumer is an idiot. He refuses to even participate in fixing the situation because it is a great political tool for him. He hates to waste the overblown outrage that has been produced over this situation.

https://twitter.com/megwagner/status/10 ... 7970518018

Agree with her or not, she makes her case. Goddamn it, Congress, do your job.
Donny gets no credit from me for deciding not to further exacerbate a situation he created. This was a monstrous policy, its effects will continue to be felt for the indefinite future, and Donny is solely to blame for it.

And as for the thousands of kids who have already been separated from their parents, Donny has made the affirmative decision that they and their parents get no relief, and the separation will continue. So he's not even fixing the problem he created. He's just given up on trying to make it worse than his actions have already made it.

As for Congressional action, every member of the Democratic Senate caucus (this includes the two independents) has signed on as a co-sponsor of the Keep Families Together Act. Not one Republican Senator, though. They're all too afraid of Donny. --Bob
Tell me, Bob, did you swear to uphold only those laws with which you agree?
I suppose if you were in The Netherlands in 1944 you'd have turned in Anne Frank.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#266 Post by tlynn78 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:22 pm

Estonut wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:]I didn't swear to uphold any laws at all. I'm not a prosecutor, and that's not my job. My job is to represent my clients, consistently with the laws (including laws for which I can make a good faith argument for reversal) and the rules of court.

None of which has anything to do with choosing to hurt children.

Are you okay with the actions Donny has taken to hurt children, or aren't you? Based on what you've said here, I'm pretty sure you are, but I'll ask the question directly.
Wow.

https://www.calbarxap.com/applications/ ... n_6068.pdf

"...I will faithfully uphold the duties..." See Section A at the top of the link to refresh yourself on those duties, which include upholding the "Constitution and laws of the United States." Or did you have your fingers crossed behind your back?

My heart breaks for children put in rough situations by the adults in their lives. The adults bringing those children to the US border illegally are the ones responsible. The vast majority of them are fully aware of the risks associated with their actions. As to who is using the situation for political gain, we have very different views on that. Witness the faked and mis-attributed photos of "caged" children, for starters. Flock and BiT are right, Congress must do their job.
T-Girl, he clearly has an out. He swore that he would "support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California, and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of an attorney and counselor at law to the best of my knowledge and ability."
There's that.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#267 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:40 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:Donny gets no credit from me for deciding not to further exacerbate a situation he created. This was a monstrous policy, its effects will continue to be felt for the indefinite future, and Donny is solely to blame for it.

And as for the thousands of kids who have already been separated from their parents, Donny has made the affirmative decision that they and their parents get no relief, and the separation will continue. So he's not even fixing the problem he created. He's just given up on trying to make it worse than his actions have already made it.

As for Congressional action, every member of the Democratic Senate caucus (this includes the two independents) has signed on as a co-sponsor of the Keep Families Together Act. Not one Republican Senator, though. They're all too afraid of Donny. --Bob
Tell me, Bob, did you swear to uphold only those laws with which you agree?
I suppose if you were in The Netherlands in 1944 you'd have turned in Anne Frank.
Your suppositions are disgusting. And so are you. You f&$king assholes are so over the top. You take a valid point, a rare issue on which you are in the right, and you immediately elevate it and equate it to mass genocide. Don't you know that is why no one with a rational mind can take you seriously? Don't you know you are being played? If anyone resembles the nazis it's the left and the way they drum up hatred against those who disagree with them. Ask Kirstjen Neilsen.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#268 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:04 am

tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:]I didn't swear to uphold any laws at all. I'm not a prosecutor, and that's not my job. My job is to represent my clients, consistently with the laws (including laws for which I can make a good faith argument for reversal) and the rules of court.

None of which has anything to do with choosing to hurt children.

Are you okay with the actions Donny has taken to hurt children, or aren't you? Based on what you've said here, I'm pretty sure you are, but I'll ask the question directly. --Bob
Wow.

https://www.calbarxap.com/applications/ ... n_6068.pdf

"...I will faithfully uphold the duties..." See Section A at the top of the link to refresh yourself on those duties, which include upholding the "Constitution and laws of the United States." Or did you have your fingers crossed behind your back?

My heart breaks for children put in rough situations by the adults in their lives. The adults bringing those children to the US border illegally are the ones responsible. The vast majority of them are fully aware of the risks associated with their actions. As to who is using the situation for political gain, we have very different views on that. Witness the faked and mis-attributed photos of "caged" children, for starters. Flock and BiT are right, Congress must do their job.
Got it. You're okay with Donny doing this. You're sad for the kids but you won't do anything to stop him.

I spent a few years living in Alabama in the 1960s. I was still too young to face this decision when we left, but I'd really like to think that if I'd stayed down there, I'd have done everything in my power to smash Jim Crow. Including breaking Jim Crow laws.

I live within walking distance of the Museum of Tolerance, and when I was younger I read everything I could get my hands on about World War II. Never again means something to me.

Donny didn't need to tear kids from their families. Enforcing this law in this way isn't remotely close to worth the damage we're doing to these kids. It's a choice. And as far as I'm concerned, anyone who doesn't raise their voice in opposition to Donny's choice is complicit. Anyone who thinks less of me for that is not someone whose opinion I care about. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#269 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:24 am

Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:]I didn't swear to uphold any laws at all. I'm not a prosecutor, and that's not my job. My job is to represent my clients, consistently with the laws (including laws for which I can make a good faith argument for reversal) and the rules of court.

None of which has anything to do with choosing to hurt children.

Are you okay with the actions Donny has taken to hurt children, or aren't you? Based on what you've said here, I'm pretty sure you are, but I'll ask the question directly. --Bob
Wow.

https://www.calbarxap.com/applications/ ... n_6068.pdf

"...I will faithfully uphold the duties..." See Section A at the top of the link to refresh yourself on those duties, which include upholding the "Constitution and laws of the United States." Or did you have your fingers crossed behind your back?

My heart breaks for children put in rough situations by the adults in their lives. The adults bringing those children to the US border illegally are the ones responsible. The vast majority of them are fully aware of the risks associated with their actions. As to who is using the situation for political gain, we have very different views on that. Witness the faked and mis-attributed photos of "caged" children, for starters. Flock and BiT are right, Congress must do their job.
Got it. You're okay with Donny doing this. You're sad for the kids but you won't do anything to stop him.

I spent a few years living in Alabama in the 1960s. I was still too young to face this decision when we left, but I'd really like to think that if I'd stayed down there, I'd have done everything in my power to smash Jim Crow. Including breaking Jim Crow laws.

I live within walking distance of the Museum of Tolerance, and when I was younger I read everything I could get my hands on about World War II. Never again means something to me.

Donny didn't need to tear kids from their families. Enforcing this law in this way isn't remotely close to worth the damage we're doing to these kids. It's a choice. And as far as I'm concerned, anyone who doesn't raise their voice in opposition to Donny's choice is complicit. Anyone who thinks less of me for that is not someone whose opinion I care about. --Bob
OK, bob-tel. Let's say you somehow are appointed King of these United States. As King, you have all Legislative, Executive and Judicial powers. You now can do 'everything in your power'.

What is your solution to Illegal Immigration? Be specific. Remember, you may be King, but there is opposition, so you must try and please everybody.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#270 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:37 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote: Don't you know that is why no one with a rational mind can take you seriously?
Then why is it that, in poll after poll, on issue after issue, significantly more people support Democratic positions than Republican ones?

Here's a summary (published in April, before the recent events which will probably significantly skew new polls):

https://immigrationforum.org/article/po ... mmigrants/

The people who are out of step are those like you, Flock.

As far as your question about what to do about illegal immigration, I've never seen anyone come up with valid factually based problems why illegal immigration is a major problem, and, if so, why we should be concentrating on a decreasing number of border crossings instead of people overstaying visas and permits, which are the main source of undocumented immigrants. The answer either falls back on inaccurate and often racially based claims about crime (such as how immigrants are or will become members of MS-13) or the flat answer, "it's illegal." Well, so are many things, including jaywalking, running stop signs (as I discovered recently when my rolling stop got ticketed), and shoplifting. The question should be what our national priorities are in terms of law enforcement and by any rational discussion of the subject, illegal immigration is rather low on the list.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#271 Post by tlynn78 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:06 am

Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:]I didn't swear to uphold any laws at all. I'm not a prosecutor, and that's not my job. My job is to represent my clients, consistently with the laws (including laws for which I can make a good faith argument for reversal) and the rules of court.

None of which has anything to do with choosing to hurt children.

Are you okay with the actions Donny has taken to hurt children, or aren't you? Based on what you've said here, I'm pretty sure you are, but I'll ask the question directly. --Bob
Wow.

https://www.calbarxap.com/applications/ ... n_6068.pdf

"...I will faithfully uphold the duties..." See Section A at the top of the link to refresh yourself on those duties, which include upholding the "Constitution and laws of the United States." Or did you have your fingers crossed behind your back?

My heart breaks for children put in rough situations by the adults in their lives. The adults bringing those children to the US border illegally are the ones responsible. The vast majority of them are fully aware of the risks associated with their actions. As to who is using the situation for political gain, we have very different views on that. Witness the faked and mis-attributed photos of "caged" children, for starters. Flock and BiT are right, Congress must do their job.
Got it. You're okay with Donny doing this. You're sad for the kids but you won't do anything to stop him.

I spent a few years living in Alabama in the 1960s. I was still too young to face this decision when we left, but I'd really like to think that if I'd stayed down there, I'd have done everything in my power to smash Jim Crow. Including breaking Jim Crow laws.

I live within walking distance of the Museum of Tolerance, and when I was younger I read everything I could get my hands on about World War II. Never again means something to me.

Donny didn't need to tear kids from their families. Enforcing this law in this way isn't remotely close to worth the damage we're doing to these kids. It's a choice. And as far as I'm concerned, anyone who doesn't raise their voice in opposition to Donny's choice is complicit. Anyone who thinks less of me for that is not someone whose opinion I care about. --Bob
You have truly gone around the bend.
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Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#272 Post by tlynn78 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:14 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote: Don't you know that is why no one with a rational mind can take you seriously?
Then why is it that, in poll after poll, on issue after issue, significantly more people support Democratic positions than Republican ones?

Here's a summary (published in April, before the recent events which will probably significantly skew new polls):

https://immigrationforum.org/article/po ... mmigrants/

The people who are out of step are those like you, Flock.

As far as your question about what to do about illegal immigration, I've never seen anyone come up with valid factually based problems why illegal immigration is a major problem, and, if so, why we should be concentrating on a decreasing number of border crossings instead of people overstaying visas and permits, which are the main source of undocumented immigrants. The answer either falls back on inaccurate and often racially based claims about crime (such as how immigrants are or will become members of MS-13) or the flat answer, "it's illegal." Well, so are many things, including jaywalking, running stop signs (as I discovered recently when my rolling stop got ticketed), and shoplifting. The question should be what our national priorities are in terms of law enforcement and by any rational discussion of the subject, illegal immigration is rather low on the list.
Illegal immigration is only a problem because we're racist? Tell that to the European countries who did virtually nothing to stem the tide when they still could, and are utterly floundering under the burden of illegal, undocumented, un-integrated immigrants. You are laughable. Or you just want to allow unfettered immigration, and "let nature take it's course."
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#273 Post by tlynn78 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:22 am

Bob:
I spent a few years living in Alabama in the 1960s. I was still too young to face this decision when we left, but I'd really like to think that if I'd stayed down there, I'd have done everything in my power to smash Jim Crow. Including breaking Jim Crow laws.
That's a rich fantasy life you've got there, Bob. They don't <yet> hand out participation trophies for what you like to think you might have done. Try living in a third world country. You know, there are things you could do now, if you're really invested in ousting our President. You could quit your job and draw unemployment, thus impacting the current positive unemployment trend. You can send your tax savings to Planned Parenthood to help literally rip those babies from their mothers. You could drive down to the border and invite say, ten or so illegal aliens to share your son's bedroom. I don't think you're really committed to this 'get rid of Donny' plan of yours.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#274 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:39 am

tlynn78 wrote: Tell that to the European countries who did virtually nothing to stem the tide when they still could, and are utterly floundering under the burden of illegal, undocumented, un-integrated immigrants. You are laughable.
You are comparing apples to oranges. I'm going by years of crime statistics here in this country. I'm not sure what evidence you have of what goes on in foreign countries.

Here are some actual statistics about crime rates in Europe, not Fox News fear mongering. Violent crime has actually gone down over the past decade, despite dealing with the burden of illegal, undocumented, un-integrated immigrants:

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics ... statistics

Trump is the one talking about illegal immigrants "infesting" the United States.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#275 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:15 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:OK, bob-tel. Let's say you somehow are appointed King of these United States. As King, you have all Legislative, Executive and Judicial powers. You now can do 'everything in your power'.

What is your solution to Illegal Immigration? Be specific. Remember, you may be King, but there is opposition, so you must try and please everybody.
Only a fool tries to please everybody. I'm pretty much fine with the way things were in the past, except that we need to do something for the DACA kids. It's in our best interests to give them citizenship so that we keep the benefits of their enterprise and energy instead of chasing those benefits away to some other country.

I agree with the 75% of the American people who think immigration is a good thing. We certainly don't have a problem with immigrants "infesting" us (as a decidedly non-racist Donny, who would never think of claiming a federal judge can't do his job properly merely because of his Mexican background, has said). Study after study has shown that immigrants (including the undocumented), as a whole, are more law-abiding than citizens.

The problem we do have for the moment is jobs. There are literally not enough people in the work force to fill all of the jobs that are open. So we really need to encourage more immigration so that businesses can fill those jobs and continue to grow, to the benefit of all of us.

The problem we're going to have, as the baby boomers continue to retire, is Social Security. I'll be drawing it in a little more than a decade. Social Security is a pay-as-you-go system, which means that my benefits aren't squirreled away in some savings account, but will be paid on a current basis by those who are in the work force in the 2030s. And that means that if we don't have enough people in the work force in the 2030s, I won't get the benefits that I've worked most of my adult life to earn. So it's to the benefit of all seniors (and those approaching the status of seniors) to make sure that we have enough workers in the country to keep those benefits flowing as they should be. And since there aren't enough native-born kids being born to maintain the size of our population, the only way that's going to happen is if we continue to encourage immigrants to come here and fill those jobs. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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