WWTBAM Bored

A home for the weary.
It is currently Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:45 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 442 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 18  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:32 pm 
Offline
Evil Genius
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:16 am
Posts: 9193
Location: Garden Grove, CA
Bob78164 wrote:
But to know that you have to be willing to read primary sources (which is why I try to cite them here) and do your own analysis (which is why I explain my reasoning here), ...
Bob78164 wrote:
jarnon wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
We're ending joint military exercises with South Korea? A long-standing ally and a democracy that faces a very credible military threat on its very border. Can someone please tell me just what the Great Negotiator got in return for screwing over another ally? --Bob

jarnon wrote:
Trump's overture was sought for by South Korean President Moon, who was elected on a platform of engagement with the North. It's similar to Obama's policy towards Iran when moderate (by Iranian standards) Rohani was elected, and Cuba after a long stalemate. Diplomacy with rogue regimes usually fails, but IMHO it's still worth a try.

jarnon wrote:
Moon is determined to keep the peace process alive.

Leaders of North and South Korea Hold Surprise Second Summit

If there is a Trump-Kim summit, expectations have been lowered. The best we can hope for is the start of diplomacy that will lead to, as Trump put it, North Korea joining the real world.

The summit wouldn't have happened without Moon. If the South Koreans feel screwed over (which I doubt), they have only their own president to blame, and themselves for electing somebody who believes in reaching out to Kim.
Thanks, jarnon. This is useful context previously unknown to me. It still concerns me, a lot, that this appears to have happened without coordinating with South Korea.
Gee, with all of your reading of primary sources and doing your own analysis, how could you miss this?

_________________
A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
Groucho Marx


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:31 am
Posts: 6333
Location: Montana
Estonut wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
But to know that you have to be willing to read primary sources (which is why I try to cite them here) and do your own analysis (which is why I explain my reasoning here), ...
Bob78164 wrote:
jarnon wrote:


The summit wouldn't have happened without Moon. If the South Koreans feel screwed over (which I doubt), they have only their own president to blame, and themselves for electing somebody who believes in reaching out to Kim.
Thanks, jarnon. This is useful context previously unknown to me. It still concerns me, a lot, that this appears to have happened without coordinating with South Korea.
Gee, with all of your reading of primary sources and doing your own analysis, how could you miss this?


He's busy. Busy, busy Bob.

_________________
The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself. And clowns.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:24 am 
Offline
Bored Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Posts: 17355
Location: By the phone
jarnon wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
We're ending joint military exercises with South Korea? A long-standing ally and a democracy that faces a very credible military threat on its very border. Can someone please tell me just what the Great Negotiator got in return for screwing over another ally? --Bob

jarnon wrote:
Trump's overture was sought for by South Korean President Moon, who was elected on a platform of engagement with the North. It's similar to Obama's policy towards Iran when moderate (by Iranian standards) Rohani was elected, and Cuba after a long stalemate. Diplomacy with rogue regimes usually fails, but IMHO it's still worth a try.

jarnon wrote:
Moon is determined to keep the peace process alive.

Leaders of North and South Korea Hold Surprise Second Summit

If there is a Trump-Kim summit, expectations have been lowered. The best we can hope for is the start of diplomacy that will lead to, as Trump put it, North Korea joining the real world.

The summit wouldn't have happened without Moon. If the South Koreans feel screwed over (which I doubt), they have only their own president to blame, and themselves for electing somebody who believes in reaching out to Kim.
What I'm reading from the military is that the cessation of joint exercises will immediately begin to degrade our military readiness to honor our treaty obligations to defend South Korea in case of attack. For much the same reasons teams practice together, instead of each player doing all his practice on his own. We will need to coordinate with South Korean forces if military action is ever necessary. Joint exercises are essential practice to making sure we get this right. Moreover, I still haven't heard anything about South Korea actually wanting these exercises in general, or this exercise in particular, to stop.

And Donny's rhetoric, of course, using the phrases "war games" and "provocative" to describe our joint military exercises, is an outright propaganda coup for North Korea and China. As any adult in the room could have told Donny, if there had been one there. If anyone else had used that language, Republicans officeholders would unanimously have branded that person as disloyal, or at least as a fool.

So I'm still wondering, what did Donny get for the United States that was worth this price. The return of bodies is a nice humanitarian gesture, but to my mind it's not close to worth the price. --Bob

_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:43 am 
Offline
Evil Genius
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:16 am
Posts: 9193
Location: Garden Grove, CA
Bob78164 wrote:
What I'm reading from the military is that the cessation of joint exercises will immediately begin to degrade our military readiness to honor our treaty obligations to defend South Korea in case of attack.
So "the military" is now one of your "primary sources?" Do they print a newsletter for you?

_________________
A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
Groucho Marx


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 15460
Donald Trump 6/13/18 wrote:
[T]here is no longer a nuclear threat [from North Korea].... Everybody can now feel much safer. Before taking office people were assuming that we were going to War with North Korea. President Obama said that North Korea was our biggest and most dangerous problem. No longer.


I for one feel much much safer now.

At least the thought that Bob J and others like him may get some closure on their families' losses means that some good may come out of this.

Other than that, it's turning into a "whose puppet media is going to gush praise more effusively, North Korean State News or Sean Hannity?"

_________________
Check out our website: http://www.silverscreenvideos.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Posts: 4298
Location: Olympia, Washington
silverscreenselect wrote:
Donald Trump 6/13/18 wrote:
[T]here is no longer a nuclear threat [from North Korea].... Everybody can now feel much safer. Before taking office people were assuming that we were going to War with North Korea. President Obama said that North Korea was our biggest and most dangerous problem. No longer.


I for one feel much much safer now.

At least the thought that Bob J and others like him may get some closure on their families' losses means that some good may come out of this.

Other than that, it's turning into a "whose puppet media is going to gush praise more effusively, North Korean State News or Sean Hannity?"


Well, one thing we can all count on is the trump-haters will continue to gush their hatred just as effusively as ever, no matter what happens.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 15460
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Well, one thing we can all count on is the trump-haters will continue to gush their hatred just as effusively as ever, no matter what happens.


If I am wrong about this, I will admit it. Just as I will admit it if any of Trump's other boneheaded moves work out well. But, while he has occasionally done something decent like the Jack Johnson pardon, none of his major policy moves, foreign or domestic, has worked out. And that nonsense about how Trump gets credit for the economy is like giving Herbert Hoover credit in September 1929 for the economy in the U.S.

_________________
Check out our website: http://www.silverscreenvideos.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Posts: 4298
Location: Olympia, Washington
silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Well, one thing we can all count on is the trump-haters will continue to gush their hatred just as effusively as ever, no matter what happens.


If I am wrong about this, I will admit it. Just as I will admit it if any of Trump's other boneheaded moves work out well. But, while he has occasionally done something decent like the Jack Johnson pardon, none of his major policy moves, foreign or domestic, has worked out. And that nonsense about how Trump gets credit for the economy is like giving Herbert Hoover credit in September 1929 for the economy in the U.S.


Whatever is happening to the economy, I am very wary, as he has completely ignored the national debt. Maybe the economy will grow enough to increase federal revenue, but he has done nothing to address spending. He spends like a drunken democrat.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:26 am 
Offline
Bored Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Posts: 17355
Location: By the phone
Estonut wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
What I'm reading from the military is that the cessation of joint exercises will immediately begin to degrade our military readiness to honor our treaty obligations to defend South Korea in case of attack.
So "the military" is now one of your "primary sources?" Do they print a newsletter for you?
Not an answer to my concern.

Esto, you're obviously smart enough to actually analyze the merits of the deal rather than nitpick back-and-forth on the Bored. If you did so, you might even be able to provide me with something to think about, as jarnon has. Perhaps that would be a more satisfying use of the time you choose to spend here. --Bob

_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:06 pm 
Offline
Bored Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Posts: 17355
Location: By the phone
By the way, apparently (another paywall) the Wall Street Journal back in January reported that Donny got the idea to stop the joint exercises from Putin. The context was explaining how Secretary Mattis talked him out of it (or so he thought). --Bob

_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Posts: 4298
Location: Olympia, Washington
Bob78164 wrote:
By the way, apparently (another paywall) the Wall Street Journal back in January reported that Donny got the idea to stop the joint exercises from Putin. The context was explaining how Secretary Mattis talked him out of it (or so he thought). --Bob

You report secondhand rumors as fact, and you expect us to take you seriously....

The facts are NK has committed to denuclearisation. That's what we get. The other indispurable fact is the consequences for them breaking their commitment is that we could send their entire country back to the stone age if we so desired.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:35 pm 
Offline
Bored Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Posts: 17355
Location: By the phone
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
By the way, apparently (another paywall) the Wall Street Journal back in January reported that Donny got the idea to stop the joint exercises from Putin. The context was explaining how Secretary Mattis talked him out of it (or so he thought). --Bob

You report secondhand rumors as fact, and you expect us to take you seriously....

The facts are NK has committed to denuclearisation. That's what we get. The other indispurable fact is the consequences for them breaking their commitment is that we could send their entire country back to the stone age if we so desired.
You think the Wall Street Journal got its facts wrong on this?

Words are wind. They've said that before. They lied before. How will we verify it now? Why did Donny give them something up front (cancelling the joint exercises) before they tangibly demonstrated that this time is different? Something, by the way, that increases the risk to tens of thousands of U.S. servicemen currently serving in Korea by degrading combat readiness. Why did Donny do that without at least consulting the Pentagon?

And we won't send their country back to the Stone Age, both for humanitarian reasons and because long before we finish the job, they'd return the favor on our ally, South Korea. Hell, I wouldn't be all that confident of our ability to win a protracted land war in that part of the world. Ask the various governments of Afghanistan. Best we could realistically hope for is to kill the current regime.

And by the way, North Korea also has chemical and biological weapons. So I wouldn't celebrate just yet. --Bob

_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Posts: 4298
Location: Olympia, Washington
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
By the way, apparently (another paywall) the Wall Street Journal back in January reported that Donny got the idea to stop the joint exercises from Putin. The context was explaining how Secretary Mattis talked him out of it (or so he thought). --Bob

You report secondhand rumors as fact, and you expect us to take you seriously....

The facts are NK has committed to denuclearisation. That's what we get. The other indispurable fact is the consequences for them breaking their commitment is that we could send their entire country back to the stone age if we so desired.
You think the Wall Street Journal got its facts wrong on this?

Words are wind. They've said that before. They lied before. How will we verify it now? Why did Donny give them something up front (cancelling the joint exercises) before they tangibly demonstrated that this time is different? Something, by the way, that increases the risk to tens of thousands of U.S. servicemen currently serving in Korea by degrading combat readiness. Why did Donny do that without at least consulting the Pentagon?

And we won't send their country back to the Stone Age, both for humanitarian reasons and because long before we finish the job, they'd return the favor on our ally, South Korea. Hell, I wouldn't be all that confident of our ability to win a protracted land war in that part of the world. Ask the various governments of Afghanistan. Best we could realistically hope for is to kill the current regime.

And by the way, North Korea also has chemical and biological weapons. So I wouldn't celebrate just yet. --Bob


So, bobtel, The minute we say we are canceling the 'joint exercises', our soldiers somehow become useless? How's that? And if we can cancel them with a word, we can recommence them with a word as well. trump showed the NKs he isn't playing around by canceling the summit based on their rhetoric. He has flexibility and I believe that he has the intention of holding them to their commitments, unlike previous administrations.

Your relentless trump-hatred is really getting old.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 15460
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
The facts are NK has committed to denuclearisation. That's what we get. The other indispurable fact is the consequences for them breaking their commitment is that we could send their entire country back to the stone age if we so desired.


The North Koreans "denuclearization" commitment is like the commitment people make to lose weight every year. In fact, it means even less because most people who say they will lose weight at least sort of mean it. Nothing that the Koreans have signed defines "denuclearization" and the typical North Korean understanding of that term does not include giving up their nukes. They have made similar commitments several times over the years and always backed down.

We could send their country back to the stone age. They could also send much of South Korea and possibly a good chunk of Japan back to the stone age as well.

_________________
Check out our website: http://www.silverscreenvideos.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:27 pm 
Offline
Queen of Wack
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:38 am
Posts: 9372
Location: Location.Location.Location
silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
The facts are NK has committed to denuclearisation. That's what we get. The other indispurable fact is the consequences for them breaking their commitment is that we could send their entire country back to the stone age if we so desired.


The North Koreans "denuclearization" commitment is like the commitment people make to lose weight every year. In fact, it means even less because most people who say they will lose weight at least sort of mean it. Nothing that the Koreans have signed defines "denuclearization" and the typical North Korean understanding of that term does not include giving up their nukes. They have made similar commitments several times over the years and always backed down.

We could send their country back to the stone age. They could also send much of South Korea and possibly a good chunk of Japan back to the stone age as well.


Let's just do nothing. Thumbs up butts. Works with Iran, right? Move along. Armchair qbacks rock on.

_________________
Oh please.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 15460
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
He has flexibility and I believe that he has the intention of holding them to their commitments, unlike previous administrations.

Your relentless trump-hatred is really getting old.


Trump is indeed flexible. He says whatever he feels like whenever he feels like it regardless of what he has said of done in the past. I'm curious what you base your opinion of his intentions on. Please name one example in his administration to date when he has held anyone to their commitments. His usual method of "getting tough" with people is to fire them or back out of his own commitments. He can't do either one with North Korea.

Your support of Trump with no factual basis in cases like this gets old as well.

_________________
Check out our website: http://www.silverscreenvideos.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:21 pm
Posts: 15460
Beebs52 wrote:
Works with Iran, right?


Well, there's been no evidence of Iran continuing with its nuclear program since the treaty that Trump scuttled. And now we do have our thumbs up our butts with them.

_________________
Check out our website: http://www.silverscreenvideos.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:11 pm 
Offline
Bored Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Posts: 17355
Location: By the phone
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
So, bobtel, The minute we say we are canceling the 'joint exercises', our soldiers somehow become useless?
Not what I said. Not remotely close to what I said.

And you still haven't explained what Donny got in return for the very tangible step of cancelling joint exercises without informing either our affected ally or even our own Pentagon. Unless you're talking about North Korea's unverified word, in which case I stand by my opinion that the trade wasn't remotely close to worth it. --Bob

_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:20 pm 
Offline
Bored Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Posts: 17355
Location: By the phone
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Your relentless trump-hatred is really getting old.
Ah, I see. The problem isn't what I'm saying. It's that I'm the one saying it.

Fine. Perhaps you'll be better able to hear the message with a Fox News logo on your screen.



--Bob

_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Posts: 4298
Location: Olympia, Washington
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Your relentless trump-hatred is really getting old.
Ah, I see. The problem isn't what I'm saying. It's that I'm the one saying it.

Fine. Perhaps you'll be better able to hear the message with a Fox News logo on your screen.



--Bob


I thought I spoke to SSS about this kind of crap. But, of course, you don't even bother to read the posts I address to you...


Last edited by flockofseagulls104 on Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Posts: 4298
Location: Olympia, Washington
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
So, bobtel, The minute we say we are canceling the 'joint exercises', our soldiers somehow become useless?
Not what I said. Not remotely close to what I said.

And you still haven't explained what Donny got in return for the very tangible step of cancelling joint exercises without informing either our affected ally or even our own Pentagon. Unless you're talking about North Korea's unverified word, in which case I stand by my opinion that the trade wasn't remotely close to worth it. --Bob


I explained it very well, bobtel, the exceptional litigator, but it is not only apparent to me, but to others here as well, that you don't care what others think, you believe your bloviated opinion is fact and cannot be argued with. So what's the use?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:40 pm 
Offline
Bored Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Posts: 17355
Location: By the phone
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Your relentless trump-hatred is really getting old.
Ah, I see. The problem isn't what I'm saying. It's that I'm the one saying it.

Fine. Perhaps you'll be better able to hear the message with a Fox News logo on your screen.



--Bob


I thought I spoke to SSS about this kind of crap. But, of course, you don't read the posts I address to you...
You can expect to continue seeing it every time you attack my supposed motives instead of addressing the substance of my comments. --Bob

_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Posts: 4298
Location: Olympia, Washington
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Ah, I see. The problem isn't what I'm saying. It's that I'm the one saying it.

Fine. Perhaps you'll be better able to hear the message with a Fox News logo on your screen.



--Bob


I thought I spoke to SSS about this kind of crap. But, of course, you don't read the posts I address to you...
You can expect to continue seeing it every time you attack my supposed motives instead of addressing the substance of my comments. --Bob


So if I was SSS, I could bring up Shep Smith as the source of everything you think.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:59 pm 
Offline
Bored Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Posts: 17355
Location: By the phone
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:

I thought I spoke to SSS about this kind of crap. But, of course, you don't read the posts I address to you...
You can expect to continue seeing it every time you attack my supposed motives instead of addressing the substance of my comments. --Bob


So if I was SSS, I could bring up Shep Smith as the source of everything you think.
And you'd get the same reaction (although you'd be wrong about that). It really doesn't matter where the ideas come from. What matters is whether they're right. When you go after my motives instead of addressing my ideas on their merits, I feel justified in assuming that it's because you can't respond to them on the merits. If you want to change that, stick to the merits. --Bob

_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Posts: 4298
Location: Olympia, Washington
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
You can expect to continue seeing it every time you attack my supposed motives instead of addressing the substance of my comments. --Bob


So if I was SSS, I could bring up Shep Smith as the source of everything you think.
And you'd get the same reaction (although you'd be wrong about that). It really doesn't matter where the ideas come from. What matters is whether they're right. When you go after my motives instead of addressing my ideas on their merits, I feel justified in assuming that it's because you can't respond to them on the merits. If you want to change that, stick to the merits. --Bob

And most of your ideas are wrong, bob-tel. From vowing to do everything you could to bring down the duly elected President before he even took office, to threatening to sue me because I pointed out how hypocritical and self-righteous you are. If you view this as an attack, so be it. I am just stating 2 facts here. They both happened and they are both wrong, in my opinion. And you can extrapolate these two incidents into the gobbledygook you sanctimoniously present as 'facts'.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 442 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 18  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: PanicinDetroit and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.