You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#276 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:06 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote: Don't you know that is why no one with a rational mind can take you seriously?
Then why is it that, in poll after poll, on issue after issue, significantly more people support Democratic positions than Republican ones?

Here's a summary (published in April, before the recent events which will probably significantly skew new polls):

https://immigrationforum.org/article/po ... mmigrants/

The people who are out of step are those like you, Flock.

As far as your question about what to do about illegal immigration, I've never seen anyone come up with valid factually based problems why illegal immigration is a major problem, and, if so, why we should be concentrating on a decreasing number of border crossings instead of people overstaying visas and permits, which are the main source of undocumented immigrants. The answer either falls back on inaccurate and often racially based claims about crime (such as how immigrants are or will become members of MS-13) or the flat answer, "it's illegal." Well, so are many things, including jaywalking, running stop signs (as I discovered recently when my rolling stop got ticketed), and shoplifting. The question should be what our national priorities are in terms of law enforcement and by any rational discussion of the subject, illegal immigration is rather low on the list.
You want anyone who decides they want to live here to be able to just walk over our border, or come here on a 'visit' and just stay here with no consequences at all. OK, got it. It's called open borders. You and all the politicians who agree with you should just come out and say it. But you won't, because then the un- and under-informed who you rely on for votes might catch on.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#277 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:18 am

Bob78164 wrote:Only a fool tries to please everybody. I'm pretty much fine with the way things were in the past, except that we need to do something for the DACA kids. It's in our best interests to give them citizenship so that we keep the benefits of their enterprise and energy instead of chasing those benefits away to some other country.

I agree with the 75% of the American people who think immigration is a good thing. We certainly don't have a problem with immigrants "infesting" us (as a decidedly non-racist Donny, who would never think of claiming a federal judge can't do his job properly merely because of his Mexican background, has said). Study after study has shown that immigrants (including the undocumented), as a whole, are more law-abiding than citizens.

The problem we do have for the moment is jobs. There are literally not enough people in the work force to fill all of the jobs that are open. So we really need to encourage more immigration so that businesses can fill those jobs and continue to grow, to the benefit of all of us.

The problem we're going to have, as the baby boomers continue to retire, is Social Security. I'll be drawing it in a little more than a decade. Social Security is a pay-as-you-go system, which means that my benefits aren't squirreled away in some savings account, but will be paid on a current basis by those who are in the work force in the 2030s. And that means that if we don't have enough people in the work force in the 2030s, I won't get the benefits that I've worked most of my adult life to earn. So it's to the benefit of all seniors (and those approaching the status of seniors) to make sure that we have enough workers in the country to keep those benefits flowing as they should be. And since there aren't enough native-born kids being born to maintain the size of our population, the only way that's going to happen is if we continue to encourage immigrants to come here and fill those jobs. --Bob
Not specific enough, bob-tel.
I'm pretty much fine with the way things were in the past.
In the past, bob-tel, we had a process where we knew who was coming and going and people applied for residency and citizenship. I'm OK if we do that. And that's what your arch enemy wants, as well.
I agree with the 75% of the American people who think immigration is a good thing.
So do I, bob-tel. Immigration is great! But you are addressing someone who knows the difference between legal and illegal immigration. We are debating illegal immigration here. Don't patronize me.
Study after study....
Don't give me this 'study' bullshit. For every study you can cite, I can find one that totally contradicts it. "Studies" nowadays are commissioned to validate a conclusion. We are talking about the LAWS. You claim to be an above-average lawyer. Let's stick to that, shall we? Currently, everyone who has come to live here without going through the legal immigration process is a criminal. What are you going to do about it, King bob-tel, first of his name, the ethical...?


Try again, bob-tel. We need to have a solution.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#278 Post by earendel » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:36 am

I've been wading through the now 12 pages of discussion. It started with the summit between the US and North Korea and now is taking on immigration. In all the pages I've read, I've noticed several things. First, no one has changed his or her opinion on any of the debated topics. Second, the debate has taken a rather nasty turn - name-calling, disparagement of one's job, passive-aggressive comments (AKA snark). Third, what I would consider deliberate misconstruing of opponents' positions on the subject(s). I suppose the participants in this forum get some sort of satisfaction over beating their heads against brick walls.

That said, with respect to the immigration discussion, I would like to offer the following propositions.

1. No one wants completely open borders.
2. No one wants to see families separated.

The issue is what to do about those who are coming to the US. Some are coming because of legitimate fears of violence in their home countries (including domestic violence). Some are coming because they seek a better life for themselves and their families. Some are coming because they are "bad hombres" and want to continue to be so. We can argue the numbers in each category, and there are probably other categories we could add.

So what can be done? Here's what I propose, in reverse order of importance.

3.Better border security - not a wall (impractical) but surveillance drones, sensors, a "cyber-fence" if you will.
2. An increase in the number of immigration judges to oversee illegal immigrant hearings.
1. Increased foreign aid to the countries that are having problems with economic opportunities and crime/violence, targeted to make sure those who need it get it.

I have not, unlike some, done extensive research on these proposals, and I'm sure there are arguments for and against each one. But I'm at least willing to put forth a tentative solution.

Feel free to tell me what's wrong with these proposals.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#279 Post by tlynn78 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:06 pm

earendel wrote:I've been wading through the now 12 pages of discussion. It started with the summit between the US and North Korea and now is taking on immigration. In all the pages I've read, I've noticed several things. First, no one has changed his or her opinion on any of the debated topics. Second, the debate has taken a rather nasty turn - name-calling, disparagement of one's job, passive-aggressive comments (AKA snark). Third, what I would consider deliberate misconstruing of opponents' positions on the subject(s). I suppose the participants in this forum get some sort of satisfaction over beating their heads against brick walls.

That said, with respect to the immigration discussion, I would like to offer the following propositions.

1. No one wants completely open borders.
2. No one wants to see families separated.

The issue is what to do about those who are coming to the US. Some are coming because of legitimate fears of violence in their home countries (including domestic violence). Some are coming because they seek a better life for themselves and their families. Some are coming because they are "bad hombres" and want to continue to be so. We can argue the numbers in each category, and there are probably other categories we could add.

So what can be done? Here's what I propose, in reverse order of importance.

3.Better border security - not a wall (impractical) but surveillance drones, sensors, a "cyber-fence" if you will.
2. An increase in the number of immigration judges to oversee illegal immigrant hearings.
1. Increased foreign aid to the countries that are having problems with economic opportunities and crime/violence, targeted to make sure those who need it get it.

I have not, unlike some, done extensive research on these proposals, and I'm sure there are arguments for and against each one. But I'm at least willing to put forth a tentative solution.

Feel free to tell me what's wrong with these proposals.
Actually, Ear, you've hit on one of what I think is the more impactful approaches, which is aid in the country of origin. Helping lift 3rd world countries into the 21st century would go a long way to alleviating illegal immigration. There are tremendous problems to be overcome in the process, but I still think it's the most impactful.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#280 Post by Beebs52 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:06 pm

earendel wrote:I've been wading through the now 12 pages of discussion. It started with the summit between the US and North Korea and now is taking on immigration. In all the pages I've read, I've noticed several things. First, no one has changed his or her opinion on any of the debated topics. Second, the debate has taken a rather nasty turn - name-calling, disparagement of one's job, passive-aggressive comments (AKA snark). Third, what I would consider deliberate misconstruing of opponents' positions on the subject(s). I suppose the participants in this forum get some sort of satisfaction over beating their heads against brick walls.

That said, with respect to the immigration discussion, I would like to offer the following propositions.

1. No one wants completely open borders.
2. No one wants to see families separated.

The issue is what to do about those who are coming to the US. Some are coming because of legitimate fears of violence in their home countries (including domestic violence). Some are coming because they seek a better life for themselves and their families. Some are coming because they are "bad hombres" and want to continue to be so. We can argue the numbers in each category, and there are probably other categories we could add.

So what can be done? Here's what I propose, in reverse order of importance.

3.Better border security - not a wall (impractical) but surveillance drones, sensors, a "cyber-fence" if you will.
2. An increase in the number of immigration judges to oversee illegal immigrant hearings.
1. Increased foreign aid to the countries that are having problems with economic opportunities and crime/violence, targeted to make sure those who need it get it.

I have not, unlike some, done extensive research on these proposals, and I'm sure there are arguments for and against each one. But I'm at least willing to put forth a tentative solution.

Feel free to tell me what's wrong with these proposals.
I like it.
Well, then

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#281 Post by jarnon » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:23 pm

These are good ideas.

Also, enhanced tracking of anyone who's not a legal resident. We want to welcome tourists, business travelers and students, not make them feel like suspects, so just make them show their passport when they enter or leave the U.S. or travel by plane (which they usually do already) and collect the data electronically. That will help catch anyone who stays too long. For those whose application for residency is being decided, as much tracking as needed in each case (with detention for the least trustworthy).
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#282 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:30 pm

earendel wrote:I've been wading through the now 12 pages of discussion. It started with the summit between the US and North Korea and now is taking on immigration. In all the pages I've read, I've noticed several things. First, no one has changed his or her opinion on any of the debated topics. Second, the debate has taken a rather nasty turn - name-calling, disparagement of one's job, passive-aggressive comments (AKA snark). Third, what I would consider deliberate misconstruing of opponents' positions on the subject(s). I suppose the participants in this forum get some sort of satisfaction over beating their heads against brick walls.

That said, with respect to the immigration discussion, I would like to offer the following propositions.

1. No one wants completely open borders.
2. No one wants to see families separated.

The issue is what to do about those who are coming to the US. Some are coming because of legitimate fears of violence in their home countries (including domestic violence). Some are coming because they seek a better life for themselves and their families. Some are coming because they are "bad hombres" and want to continue to be so. We can argue the numbers in each category, and there are probably other categories we could add.

So what can be done? Here's what I propose, in reverse order of importance.

3.Better border security - not a wall (impractical) but surveillance drones, sensors, a "cyber-fence" if you will.
2. An increase in the number of immigration judges to oversee illegal immigrant hearings.
1. Increased foreign aid to the countries that are having problems with economic opportunities and crime/violence, targeted to make sure those who need it get it.

I have not, unlike some, done extensive research on these proposals, and I'm sure there are arguments for and against each one. But I'm at least willing to put forth a tentative solution.

Feel free to tell me what's wrong with these proposals.
1. Just throwing money at foreign countries always seems to just give the bad guys more money. What to do instead... I don't know.
2. Yes
3. Whether it's a wall or electronic, let's actually do something about people crossing the border.

I would put out another idea.
If someone is caught in the country illegally, we check them against a database. Then we take their picture, fingerprints, etc. We then make them understand they are being deported. If they want asylum, or residency, instruct them how to do it legally. Then tell them this is their ONE time. If they are caught in this country illegally again, they will be put in prison for a long time and then deported. They will also be put on a blacklist of people never allowed in this country. Then we deport them.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#283 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:33 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:If someone is caught in the country illegally, we check them against a database. Then we take their picture, fingerprints, etc. We then make them understand they are being deported. If they want asylum, or residency, instruct them how to do it legally. Then tell them this is their ONE time. If they are caught in this country illegally again, they will be put in prison for a long time and then deported. They will also be put on a blacklist of people never allowed in this country. Then we deport them.
I think this is actually more forgiving than current law. I may be wrong about this, but if memory serves, under current law anyone who is deported for any reason is ineligible to legally return to the country for 10 years. --Bob
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#284 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:38 pm

earendel wrote:3.Better border security - not a wall (impractical) but surveillance drones, sensors, a "cyber-fence" if you will.
2. An increase in the number of immigration judges to oversee illegal immigrant hearings.
1. Increased foreign aid to the countries that are having problems with economic opportunities and crime/violence, targeted to make sure those who need it get it.
If foreign aid will economically help those who would otherwise immigrate, then I'm for it. But given problems of governance and distributions systems in many of the countries we're talking about, I think effectively implementing such a system would be an enormous challenge. I certainly don't mind our country spending money to make people's lives better. I'd just like to have some reason for confidence that the spending will be effective.

Bear in mind that immigration judges are Article I judges, not Article III judges. That means they can't decide criminal matters. So as long as Donny is choosing to bring criminal charges against everyone he catches, increasing the number of immigration judges won't do a thing to solve the administrative burdens. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#285 Post by jarnon » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:46 pm

Bob78164 wrote:Bear in mind that immigration judges are Article I judges, not Article III judges. That means they can't decide criminal matters. So as long as Donny is choosing to bring criminal charges against everyone he catches, increasing the number of immigration judges won't do a thing to solve the administrative burdens. --Bob
Some asylum seekers are entering illegally out of desperation, because the legal system is overwhelmed. They think it's their only way to get heard.

Also, Congress should spell out the criteria for asylum. They shouldn't be left to the discretion of Sessions, or Trump, or a judge.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#286 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:58 pm

jarnon wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:Bear in mind that immigration judges are Article I judges, not Article III judges. That means they can't decide criminal matters. So as long as Donny is choosing to bring criminal charges against everyone he catches, increasing the number of immigration judges won't do a thing to solve the administrative burdens. --Bob
Some asylum seekers are entering illegally out of desperation, because the legal system is overwhelmed. They think it's their only way to get heard.

Also, Congress should spell out the criteria for asylum. They shouldn't be left to the discretion of Sessions, or Trump, or a judge.
I also suspect some are doing so out of ignorance, simply not knowing where they can find a Port of Entry that will hear their claims.

Congress has spelled out criteria for asylum. The criteria include a fairly wide-ranging catch-all provision, which immigration judges had been using to grant asylum on the basis of a well-founded fear of gang violence or domestic violence. That's the policy that Sessions reversed.

I think as a practical matter, you need some kind of a provision that's broad enough to pick up categories of cases that you haven't thought of today, but may become important 10 or 20 years from now. To put it in more concrete terms, I prefer an immigration statute that leaves open at least the possibility of granting asylum to victims of domestic violence and gang violence to an immigration statute that clearly forecloses those possibilities. --Bob
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#287 Post by earendel » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:31 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
earendel wrote:3.Better border security - not a wall (impractical) but surveillance drones, sensors, a "cyber-fence" if you will.
2. An increase in the number of immigration judges to oversee illegal immigrant hearings.
1. Increased foreign aid to the countries that are having problems with economic opportunities and crime/violence, targeted to make sure those who need it get it.
If foreign aid will economically help those who would otherwise immigrate, then I'm for it. But given problems of governance and distributions systems in many of the countries we're talking about, I think effectively implementing such a system would be an enormous challenge. I certainly don't mind our country spending money to make people's lives better. I'd just like to have some reason for confidence that the spending will be effective.

Bear in mind that immigration judges are Article I judges, not Article III judges. That means they can't decide criminal matters. So as long as Donny is choosing to bring criminal charges against everyone he catches, increasing the number of immigration judges won't do a thing to solve the administrative burdens. --Bob
As to your first point, that was why I included "targeted", not just dump a boatload of cash on what is likely a corrupt government. As to your second, I'm not sure what you mean - as I understand it one of the reasons why those who are caught are released on bond is because there aren't enough immigration judges to hear all the cases. If true, then finding more judges seems like a good idea.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#288 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:29 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
jarnon wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:Bear in mind that immigration judges are Article I judges, not Article III judges. That means they can't decide criminal matters. So as long as Donny is choosing to bring criminal charges against everyone he catches, increasing the number of immigration judges won't do a thing to solve the administrative burdens. --Bob
Some asylum seekers are entering illegally out of desperation, because the legal system is overwhelmed. They think it's their only way to get heard.

Also, Congress should spell out the criteria for asylum. They shouldn't be left to the discretion of Sessions, or Trump, or a judge.
I also suspect some are doing so out of ignorance, simply not knowing where they can find a Port of Entry that will hear their claims.

Congress has spelled out criteria for asylum. The criteria include a fairly wide-ranging catch-all provision, which immigration judges had been using to grant asylum on the basis of a well-founded fear of gang violence or domestic violence. That's the policy that Sessions reversed.

I think as a practical matter, you need some kind of a provision that's broad enough to pick up categories of cases that you haven't thought of today, but may become important 10 or 20 years from now. To put it in more concrete terms, I prefer an immigration statute that leaves open at least the possibility of granting asylum to victims of domestic violence and gang violence to an immigration statute that clearly forecloses those possibilities. --Bob
Questions:
Is domestic violence really a reason to seek asylum in another country?
If they are seeking asylum, why don't they stay in Mexico instead of going all the way through to the US? Why doesn't Mexico give them asylum?
Why does the left pretend that ALL illegal aliens have good intentions and need to be here to get away from deplorable situations? Are coyotes, MS13, human-trafficking just figments of someone at Fox New's imagination?
Why is it racist to know who is entering our borders?
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#289 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:30 pm

earendel wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
earendel wrote:3.Better border security - not a wall (impractical) but surveillance drones, sensors, a "cyber-fence" if you will.
2. An increase in the number of immigration judges to oversee illegal immigrant hearings.
1. Increased foreign aid to the countries that are having problems with economic opportunities and crime/violence, targeted to make sure those who need it get it.
If foreign aid will economically help those who would otherwise immigrate, then I'm for it. But given problems of governance and distributions systems in many of the countries we're talking about, I think effectively implementing such a system would be an enormous challenge. I certainly don't mind our country spending money to make people's lives better. I'd just like to have some reason for confidence that the spending will be effective.

Bear in mind that immigration judges are Article I judges, not Article III judges. That means they can't decide criminal matters. So as long as Donny is choosing to bring criminal charges against everyone he catches, increasing the number of immigration judges won't do a thing to solve the administrative burdens. --Bob
As to your first point, that was why I included "targeted", not just dump a boatload of cash on what is likely a corrupt government. As to your second, I'm not sure what you mean - as I understand it one of the reasons why those who are caught are released on bond is because there aren't enough immigration judges to hear all the cases. If true, then finding more judges seems like a good idea.
Immigration judges can decide deportation proceedings, but not criminal charges such as are being brought now. Presiding over a criminal trial requires an Article III judge (a United States District Judge), who must be nominated and appointed by the President after confirmation by the Senate. Article III judges have life tenure and salary protection guaranteed by the Constitution.

None of that is true of immigration judges (or other Article I judges such as bankruptcy judges). They are not appointed by the President, they're not confirmed by the Senate, and they don't enjoy the independence that comes with either life tenure or salary protection. Accordingly, they can't preside over a criminal cases. I read today that Donny also has ended the zero-tolerance policy of bringing criminal charges against everyone who's caught. If that's true, and if he sticks to it, then more immigration judges would be helpful in reducing the time necessary for a decision on asylum claims. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#290 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:53 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
jarnon wrote:Some asylum seekers are entering illegally out of desperation, because the legal system is overwhelmed. They think it's their only way to get heard.

Also, Congress should spell out the criteria for asylum. They shouldn't be left to the discretion of Sessions, or Trump, or a judge.
I also suspect some are doing so out of ignorance, simply not knowing where they can find a Port of Entry that will hear their claims.

Congress has spelled out criteria for asylum. The criteria include a fairly wide-ranging catch-all provision, which immigration judges had been using to grant asylum on the basis of a well-founded fear of gang violence or domestic violence. That's the policy that Sessions reversed.

I think as a practical matter, you need some kind of a provision that's broad enough to pick up categories of cases that you haven't thought of today, but may become important 10 or 20 years from now. To put it in more concrete terms, I prefer an immigration statute that leaves open at least the possibility of granting asylum to victims of domestic violence and gang violence to an immigration statute that clearly forecloses those possibilities. --Bob
Questions:
Is domestic violence really a reason to seek asylum in another country?
If they are seeking asylum, why don't they stay in Mexico instead of going all the way through to the US? Why doesn't Mexico give them asylum?
Why does the left pretend that ALL illegal aliens have good intentions and need to be here to get away from deplorable situations? Are coyotes, MS13, human-trafficking just figments of someone at Fox New's imagination?
Why is it racist to know who is entering our borders?
Here's a pretty decent answer from Bret Stephens of the New York Times.

Yes, when the cops won't protect you from domestic violence, it's a reason to seek asylum elsewhere.

The question isn't whether Mexico should give them asylum. It's why shouldn't the United States. I have no problem with us being more generous than Mexico, particularly since we can afford to be and we can use the extra population, particularly for our work force. Why do you have a problem with offering asylum to these people in need?

The latter two points are simply bullshit. No one here said that and no one here believes it. --Bob
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#291 Post by jarnon » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:55 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:If they are seeking asylum, why don't they stay in Mexico instead of going all the way through to the US? Why doesn't Mexico give them asylum?
Here's a good article about it:
Should asylum seekers heading to the U.S. stay in Mexico?
So we could make an agreement with Mexico like the one we have with Canada. Under the circumstances, we'd probably have to help Mexico improve its asylum process and border security. But without an agreement, we can't turn away asylum seekers just because we think they should go to Mexico instead.
flockofseagulls104 wrote:Is domestic violence really a reason to seek asylum in another country?
The article says asylum seekers are those fleeing persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group. I can see that applying to victims from countries whose legal systems tolerate domestic violence.
flockofseagulls104 wrote:Why is it racist to know who is entering our borders?
It's racist if the officer checks every Latino's ID but leaves whites alone.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#292 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:21 pm

The question isn't whether Mexico should give them asylum. It's why shouldn't the United States. I have no problem with us being more generous than Mexico, particularly since we can afford to be and we can use the extra population, particularly for our work force. Why do you have a problem with offering asylum to these people in need?
Yes it is. It has been reported that Mexico encourages it. And there is an industry in smuggling people over the border, bob-tel. And as Neilson says, they know the rules and loopholes better than the people in Congress and take advantage of them. They have caught people who have written instructions on what to do and what to say if they get caught.

If we knew that EVERYONE that is crossing the border illegally were part of the archetypical poor, huddled mass, then maybe what you say might have some validity. But they aren't, and no matter how much you pretend and tug on the heartstrings of the underinformed, that won't change until we stop people from walking across the border and then getting lost. I have no problem giving asylum to those who desperately need it. But let's not be stupid about it. Let's know who these people are before we let them in.

So let me be like you. My family and my loved ones live here. I want our federal government to do one of the things it is actually Constitutionally responsible for. Protect our borders to make sure we don't absorb drug pushers, gangs, those with contagious diseases and violent criminals that other countries want to get rid of. I want them to know and vet everyone who comes into this country to live. That's what we did in the past. Is that too much to ask?
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#293 Post by Spock » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:02 pm

FWIW-a story

In 2008, when we were in the Yucatan and went on a Maya pyramid excursion (Coba), I was visiting with the tour guide and bus driver on the way back while everybody else was sleeping.

I pretended to speak more Spanish than I do and got some fun stories from them.

The driver told of a bus he drove from the US border to Guatemala of a busload of Central Americans who had been caught at the US border.

IIRC, they were handcuffed in the bus and there were 3 rows of security guys in the back of the bus. Mexico did not mess around with getting those guys out of the country-ASAP.

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#294 Post by Bob Juch » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:02 pm

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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#295 Post by BackInTex » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:22 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
How do you think an audio of the liberal elite from November 9, 2016 will help your cause?
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#296 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:45 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
How do you think an audio of the liberal elite from November 9, 2016 will help your cause?
Remember all those people who sat out the election thinking there was no difference between the two parties? Now they know better. --Bob
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#297 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:49 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
How do you think an audio of the liberal elite from November 9, 2016 will help your cause?
Remember all those people who sat out the election thinking there was no difference between the two parties? Now they know better. --Bob
They certainly do. democrats are getting more insanely hateful every day.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#298 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:41 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
How do you think an audio of the liberal elite from November 9, 2016 will help your cause?
Remember all those people who sat out the election thinking there was no difference between the two parties? Now they know better. --Bob
They certainly do. democrats are getting more insanely hateful every day.
Yes, I'm just sure as all get out that's the lesson America's voters learned from Donny ripping thousands of kids from their parents arms, claiming he had no choice in the matter, trying to blame Democrats for his own monstrous decisions, and then "discovering" that he could stop any time he wanted. I have no doubt that's why even Congressional Republicans recoiled from the policy, because they just knew the American people would come around and agree with them. --Bob
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#299 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:30 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
They certainly do. democrats are getting more insanely hateful every day.
That's just what you'd expect a Trump-hater hater to say.
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Re: You Might Want to Hold Off on Nobel Peace Prize

#300 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:40 am

Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:Remember all those people who sat out the election thinking there was no difference between the two parties? Now they know better. --Bob
They certainly do. democrats are getting more insanely hateful every day.
Yes, I'm just sure as all get out that's the lesson America's voters learned from Donny ripping thousands of kids from their parents arms, claiming he had no choice in the matter, trying to blame Democrats for his own monstrous decisions, and then "discovering" that he could stop any time he wanted. I have no doubt that's why even Congressional Republicans recoiled from the policy, because they just knew the American people would come around and agree with them. --Bob
Is this written in hysterafont?
With all the discussion here and all the clarifications and reporting errors that have occurred since this was first made an issue, you would think bob-tel would make some adjustments to his storyline. But it doesn't seem so. I agreed that what was being done to those kids was wrong, and bob-tel and I actually had a little window of agreement. I still believe what was/is being done to the families (whatever percentage of them are authentic families) should never happen, but the left has gone hysterical with it, as usual.
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