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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:03 pm 
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The players union had no input into this rule.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:10 pm 
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The original proposal was to impose a 15-yard penalty for failure to stand. I think NFLPA is going to have a pretty good argument that this should have been the subject of collective bargaining. --Bob

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Discretion is the better part of valor so I won't reaaally comment, having worked for private sector, public sector, ...thousandaires, m8llionaires collective bargaining on an insipid rule.

Oops. I lied. Guess I'm not a sjw.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:46 pm 
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I wish the NFLPA had been involved, but this is not a terrible compromise. Those always mean each side has to give up something it wants. I feel like the players gave up a little more here than the league, but there is nothing to stop them from making statements outside of the anthem period, meaning the other 165 hours a week the game is not being played.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:01 pm 
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The Chairman of the New York Jets has taken a stand (as it were) in support of his players' rights. If any Jets players choose to kneel (none did last year), he will pay the fines himself and the team will not take action against the players. --Bob

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:11 pm 
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Yeah, I like that the way it works is if a player takes a knee, the TEAM gets fined and not the player. So a team owner, like the Jets guy, can say to his players, "Y'all do what you need to do and I will pay the fine."

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:22 pm 
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Ritterskoop wrote:
Yeah, I like that the way it works is if a player takes a knee, the TEAM gets fined and not the player. So a team owner, like the Jets guy, can say to his players, "Y'all do what you need to do and I will pay the fine."


Or an owner can say "Kneel and your gone". It is up to the owner. Always has been, really.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:40 am 
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BackInTex wrote:
Ritterskoop wrote:
Yeah, I like that the way it works is if a player takes a knee, the TEAM gets fined and not the player. So a team owner, like the Jets guy, can say to his players, "Y'all do what you need to do and I will pay the fine."


Or an owner can say "Kneel and your gone". It is up to the owner. Always has been, really.
Well, no. That's the point of collective bargaining. That's why Kaepernick can bring a grievance. If an arbitrator decides that the owners colluded to decide they don't want him, particularly if it's for that reason, they're going to owe him an awful lot of money. (Just like baseball owners owed players a ton of money after an arbitrator found they'd colluded not to sign free agents.) And I'm reading that there are a lot of coaches that put in writing they think Kaepernick is still good enough, not just to play, but to be a starting quarterback, so it sounds like there's a pretty decent chance that an arbitrator may make that very finding. --Bob

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:28 am 
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Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Ritterskoop wrote:
Yeah, I like that the way it works is if a player takes a knee, the TEAM gets fined and not the player. So a team owner, like the Jets guy, can say to his players, "Y'all do what you need to do and I will pay the fine."


Or an owner can say "Kneel and your gone". It is up to the owner. Always has been, really.
Well, no. That's the point of collective bargaining. That's why Kaepernick can bring a grievance. If an arbitrator decides that the owners colluded to decide they don't want him, particularly if it's for that reason, they're going to owe him an awful lot of money. (Just like baseball owners owed players a ton of money after an arbitrator found they'd colluded not to sign free agents.) And I'm reading that there are a lot of coaches that put in writing they think Kaepernick is still good enough, not just to play, but to be a starting quarterback, so it sounds like there's a pretty decent chance that an arbitrator may make that very finding. --Bob


If an owner doesn't want to sign Kaepernick because of his onfield or offfield antics, it is his choice. Nothing the players union can do. Nothing they should do. If a group of owners got together and decided in a pact that none of them would, that is a different story. But just because many people come to the same conclusion doesn't constitute collusion.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 5:07 am 
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Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Ritterskoop wrote:
Yeah, I like that the way it works is if a player takes a knee, the TEAM gets fined and not the player. So a team owner, like the Jets guy, can say to his players, "Y'all do what you need to do and I will pay the fine."


Or an owner can say "Kneel and your gone". It is up to the owner. Always has been, really.
Well, no. That's the point of collective bargaining. That's why Kaepernick can bring a grievance. If an arbitrator decides that the owners colluded to decide they don't want him, particularly if it's for that reason, they're going to owe him an awful lot of money. (Just like baseball owners owed players a ton of money after an arbitrator found they'd colluded not to sign free agents.) And I'm reading that there are a lot of coaches that put in writing they think Kaepernick is still good enough, not just to play, but to be a starting quarterback, so it sounds like there's a pretty decent chance that an arbitrator may make that very finding. --Bob



It worked so well for Barry Bonds...

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 5:32 am 
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Player Chris Long responds:

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 5:41 am 
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President Trump responds via Twitter:

"You have to stand proudly for the National Anthem. You shouldn't be playing, you shouldn't be there. Maybe they shouldn't be in the country...the NFL owners did the right thing" -President @realDonaldTrump

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 8:27 am 
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Vandal wrote:
President Trump responds via Twitter:

"You have to stand proudly for the National Anthem. You shouldn't be playing, you shouldn't be there. Maybe they shouldn't be in the country...the NFL owners did the right thing" -President @realDonaldTrump


Thanks for posting that. I've been blocked. :)

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 8:27 am 
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I can't take anything the president says about this issue (or any NFL issue) seriously because he is still upset the league wouldn't sell him the Bills.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:45 am 
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Vandal wrote:
President Trump responds via Twitter:

"Maybe they shouldn't be in the country..." -President @realDonaldTrump



America, love it or leave it.

Where have we heard THAT before?


America is the greatest country in the world, because we are free to live our lives and speak our minds (unless you disagree with my opinions, in which case you can get the hell out, you ungrateful traitor). Hypocrisy at its finest.

No, Mr. President...if you don't believe that people have the right to speak their minds, PEACEFULLY protest, etc. perhaps YOU shouldn't be in the country where these rights are the cornerstone of our existence, and go fulfill your dream of being an unquestioned "beloved leader" somewhere else.


For the record, I didn't feel that the kneeling during the anthem was the best option that was chosen, just as the compromise here might not have been the best solution. What the NFL came up with was not terrible, however...while it hides away the protests, it still gives the players a means to make a statement, albeit a diluted one. Unless a prominent player is missing, not many fans are going to notice who's absent. Still, it's a better option than "stand for the anthem or be punished"..that is not an action for anyone who truly believes in what America stands for to take.


Final thought...I really believe that if the president hadn't jumped in and opened his mouth..or rather, fired up his Twitterthumbs..and slammed the whole NFL, this issue would not have snowballed the way it did. He basically triple-dog dared players to join the fracas. I don't think you'd have seen nearly the amount of players get involved without Trump's bashing of the NFL, and I don't think, in this attention deficit society we're in today, that much notice would be taken of the few remaining players still taking part in kneeling.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 5:55 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:

Or an owner can say "Kneel and your gone". It is up to the owner. Always has been, really.
Well, no. That's the point of collective bargaining. That's why Kaepernick can bring a grievance. If an arbitrator decides that the owners colluded to decide they don't want him, particularly if it's for that reason, they're going to owe him an awful lot of money. (Just like baseball owners owed players a ton of money after an arbitrator found they'd colluded not to sign free agents.) And I'm reading that there are a lot of coaches that put in writing they think Kaepernick is still good enough, not just to play, but to be a starting quarterback, so it sounds like there's a pretty decent chance that an arbitrator may make that very finding. --Bob


If an owner doesn't want to sign Kaepernick because of his onfield or offfield antics, it is his choice. Nothing the players union can do. Nothing they should do. If a group of owners got together and decided in a pact that none of them would, that is a different story. But just because many people come to the same conclusion doesn't constitute collusion.
I'd have a lot more sympathy for that viewpoint if I didn't know damn well this is the same league that had no problem offering Michael Vick a job once he got out of jail. --Bob

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:21 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Well, no. That's the point of collective bargaining. That's why Kaepernick can bring a grievance. If an arbitrator decides that the owners colluded to decide they don't want him, particularly if it's for that reason, they're going to owe him an awful lot of money. (Just like baseball owners owed players a ton of money after an arbitrator found they'd colluded not to sign free agents.) And I'm reading that there are a lot of coaches that put in writing they think Kaepernick is still good enough, not just to play, but to be a starting quarterback, so it sounds like there's a pretty decent chance that an arbitrator may make that very finding. --Bob


If an owner doesn't want to sign Kaepernick because of his onfield or offfield antics, it is his choice. Nothing the players union can do. Nothing they should do. If a group of owners got together and decided in a pact that none of them would, that is a different story. But just because many people come to the same conclusion doesn't constitute collusion.
I'd have a lot more sympathy for that viewpoint if I didn't know damn well this is the same league that had no problem offering Michael Vick a job once he got out of jail. --Bob


Or the wife/girlfriend beaters. Free enterprise whichever way you look at it.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:28 pm 
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Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:

If an owner doesn't want to sign Kaepernick because of his onfield or offfield antics, it is his choice. Nothing the players union can do. Nothing they should do. If a group of owners got together and decided in a pact that none of them would, that is a different story. But just because many people come to the same conclusion doesn't constitute collusion.
I'd have a lot more sympathy for that viewpoint if I didn't know damn well this is the same league that had no problem offering Michael Vick a job once he got out of jail. --Bob


Or the wife/girlfriend beaters. Free enterprise whichever way you look at it.
Precisely. I don't recall Donny raising a fuss about those people continuing to work in the NFL or staying in the country. --Bob

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:34 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
I'd have a lot more sympathy for that viewpoint if I didn't know damn well this is the same league that had no problem offering Michael Vick a job once he got out of jail. --Bob


Or the wife/girlfriend beaters. Free enterprise whichever way you look at it.
Precisely. I don't recall Donny raising a fuss about those people continuing to work in the NFL or staying in the country. --Bob


Does one have to weigh in on every issue? Wish he didn't weigh on this at all. So.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:48 pm 
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Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:

Or the wife/girlfriend beaters. Free enterprise whichever way you look at it.
Precisely. I don't recall Donny raising a fuss about those people continuing to work in the NFL or staying in the country. --Bob


Does one have to weigh in on every issue? Wish he didn't weigh on this at all. So.
No, but it speaks to priorities. Apparently he thinks shutting down athletes who are exercising their First Amendment rights is important enough to comment on. The other stuff, not so much. --Bob

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Precisely. I don't recall Donny raising a fuss about those people continuing to work in the NFL or staying in the country. --Bob


Does one have to weigh in on every issue? Wish he didn't weigh on this at all. So.
No, but it speaks to priorities. Apparently he thinks shutting down athletes who are exercising their First Amendment rights is important enough to comment on. The other stuff, not so much. --Bob


Nor does the nfl. Whatevs. This isn't world ending.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:56 pm 
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Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:

Does one have to weigh in on every issue? Wish he didn't weigh on this at all. So.
No, but it speaks to priorities. Apparently he thinks shutting down athletes who are exercising their First Amendment rights is important enough to comment on. The other stuff, not so much. --Bob


Nor does the nfl. Whatevs. This isn't world ending.
I agree the NFL doesn't come out of this looking good either. But them, I can ignore -- they don't have the power to affect my life or that of my family. That's not an option with Donny. --Bob

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 7:06 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
I'd have a lot more sympathy for that viewpoint if I didn't know damn well this is the same league that had no problem offering Michael Vick a job once he got out of jail. --Bob
Or the wife/girlfriend beaters. Free enterprise whichever way you look at it.
Precisely. I don't recall Donny raising a fuss about those people continuing to work in the NFL or staying in the country.
How much did you follow him before he kicked Hillary's ass?

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 7:34 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
No, but it speaks to priorities. Apparently he thinks shutting down athletes who are exercising their First Amendment rights is important enough to comment on. The other stuff, not so much. --Bob


Nor does the nfl. Whatevs. This isn't world ending.
I agree the NFL doesn't come out of this looking good either. But them, I can ignore -- they don't have the power to affect my life or that of my family. That's not an option with Donny. --Bob


So why are you commenting on this?

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 8:25 pm 
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I will not watch an NFL game until this rule is reversed. (And probably not after it is.)

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