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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:42 am 
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I totally, like totes, am wrong. Esto, you should have given me crap for using "was" instead of "were".

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:30 am 
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Estonut wrote:
In this case, not one of my Republican friends has even mentioned her.

Your third statement sounds as if you are stating fact. Such a statement should be provable. Yours is not because you, once again, pulled it out of your ass.


I doubt your friends are running for office or have news sites. What I took Beebs' reference as was referring to media coverage, and that's what I based my response on. For the record, none of my Democratic friends have mentioned her either.

I'm sure there are ways to measure the sources of articles about an individual; I haven't been able to find anything about Ocasio Cortez. What I do know is that in the various leftist sources I look at, there were a number of articles and reports in the few days immediately after her primary win and it died down from there. Nowadays, there's more mention of Beto O'Rourke than Ocasio Cortez. But I still see references in the right wing press and in supposedly non-partisan articles that say that Republican candidates plan to make her, like Nancy Pelosi, an issue in the upcoming elections.

Example: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/08/ ... ember.html

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:23 am 
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Republican candidates plan to make her, like Nancy Pelosi, an issue in the upcoming elections.


As they should be.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:44 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
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Republican candidates plan to make her, like Nancy Pelosi, an issue in the upcoming elections.


As they should be.


As well as the Portland mayor, San Francisco Mayor, and NY Governor.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:09 am 
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BackInTex wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
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Republican candidates plan to make her, like Nancy Pelosi, an issue in the upcoming elections.


As they should be.


As well as the Portland mayor, San Francisco Mayor, and NY Governor.
Don't forget Congresswoman Maxine Waters and Philadelphia DA Larry Krasner.

Guess who the Democrats are rallying against?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:32 am 
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jarnon wrote:
Guess who the Democrats are rallying against?


Hmmm....that's a tough one. :?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:40 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
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Republican candidates plan to make her, like Nancy Pelosi, an issue in the upcoming elections.


As they should be.


When the best issue the Republicans have isn't their ballyhooed tax cuts or their attempts at dismantling of Obamacare or any of the other "accomplishments" they've had (or their President) but is, instead, a 20-something political novice who got 16,000 votes in a heavily Democratic district primary, then that shows how desperate they are to find something to use against the Democrats this time around.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:07 pm 
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Good timing: ABC News has a story today about Ocasio-Cortez's faction.

Democratic Socialist surge sparks dissent on left over electoral strategy

I got more and more worried as I read through the article. At first it sounds like they want a welfare state like in Scandinavia. But then they talk about ending capitalism, which scares me. It'll be instructive to see how far Mexico, which just elected a social democratic president, swings to the left.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:32 pm 
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jarnon wrote:
Good timing: ABC News has a story today about Ocasio-Cortez's faction.

Democratic Socialist surge sparks dissent on left over electoral strategy

I got more and more worried as I read through the article. At first it sounds like they want a welfare state like in Scandinavia. But then they talk about ending capitalism, which scares me. It'll be instructive to see how far Mexico, which just elected a social democratic president, swings to the left.
I don't think that they're main source, Svart, is truly representative of a lot of people. I certainly don't see the Democratic Party going that far left in my lifetime. --Bob

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
I don't think that they're main source, Svart, is truly representative of a lot of people. I certainly don't see the Democratic Party going that far left in my lifetime. --Bob


Where's Ed when you need him.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:44 pm 
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jarnon wrote:
I got more and more worried as I read through the article. At first it sounds like they want a welfare state like in Scandinavia. But then they talk about ending capitalism, which scares me. It'll be instructive to see how far Mexico, which just elected a social democratic president, swings to the left.


Quote:
If the socialist left -- not long ago considered a fringe movement -- seems as if it’s lately been bargaining from a position of power, it might be due to a recent flood of support: since 2016, the ranks of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) have swelled from 6,000 to over 45,000 dues-paying members.


To put this into perspective, Jill Stein got over ten times that many votes for President in 2016.

I read this article and I didn't see any "dissent on the left" about electoral strategy. The only thing I heard was the director of the DSA talking about what she wants. There's no indication that Ocasio Cortez has signed on to this entire agenda (let alone any other Democratic candidates), and she has already pretty much admitted that her much ballyhooed platform is in many cases starting points rather than lines in the sand. Ocasio Cortez is working with a variety of groups; Svart sounds like the typical soapbox speaker getting a rare platform.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:39 am 
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For what it's worth, the candidates that Ocasio Cortez endorsed in Michigan and Missouri were defeated by more traditional Democrats in primaries last night. So it appears that, with the exception of a handful of overwhelmingly Democratic districts in places like California and New York City, that there will be no radical shift towards socialism in the Democratic party. Although for many right wingers, support for a livable minimum wage and equal working conditions equates to socialism anyway.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:06 am 
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The Establishment strikes back.

Democratic Party’s liberal insurgency hits a wall in Midwest primaries

If the paywall blocks you..
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The Democratic Party’s left-wing insurgency found its limits Tuesday night, with voters favoring establishment candidates over more liberal challengers in almost every closely watched race across several states.

In Michigan, former state senator Gretchen Whitmer easily won the Democratic nomination for governor over Abdul El-Sayed, a doctor backed by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) who was vying to become the country’s first Muslim governor.
In suburban House districts across the Midwest, left-wing candidates lost to Democrats backed by party leaders, abortion rights groups and labor unions.

And in St. Louis, where party giant-slayer Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez traveled to help another young insurgent candidate topple an incumbent, Rep. William Lacy Clay (D-Mo.) cruised to an easy primary win over challenger Cori Bush.

Six weeks after Ocasio-Cortez stunned Rep. Joseph Crowley (D-N.Y.), signs of a tea-party-like movement in the Democratic Party that would throw winnable races to far-left candidates appear to be fading. Instead, the party’s establishment has embraced ideas like expanding the Affordable Care Act, shrinking the space between its leaders and its disrupters.

“Trump has been the great doctor, stitching up our scars and healing us organically,” said Washington Gov. Jay Inslee, chairman of the Democratic Governors Association.

The party’s centrists, who had bemoaned Crowley’s defeat, saw Tuesday night as a turning point. Whitmer, who ran on her record of expanding Medicaid in Michigan — and a memorable promise to “fix the damn roads” — will now lead an all-female ticket in a swing state that Hillary Clinton narrowly lost.

Candidates backed by Emily’s List, which endorses women and sometimes clashes with the left, bested left-wing challengers in three southeast Michigan districts; at least two are seen as toss-ups in November.

And in Kansas’s 3rd Congressional District, Brent Welder, a Sanders-backed labor lawyer who was viewed as the most liberal candidate in the race, was bested by attorney Sharice Davids, whose win Tuesday night makes her the state’s first gay and Native American congressional nominee.

“This is a fantastic night for centrist Democrats,” said Jim Kessler, senior vice president for policy at the center-left Third Way think tank. “We nominated the right candidates who can win House seats and governor’s mansions for the Democratic Party. There’s a quiet enthusiasm in the middle. There’s a quiet voice that people are not hearing in the media, but it’s loud at the ballot box.”

The party’s left flank, meanwhile, has bristled at suggestions that it’s spoiling anything for 2018. Since winning her primary, Ocasio-Cortez campaigned for Democrats in California, Kansas, Michigan and Missouri; she also addressed liberal activists at Netroots Nation, the movement’s largest annual conference, held this year in New Orleans.

But even as she intervened against establishment Democrats, Ocasio-Cortez placed her agenda squarely inside the party’s. After campaign stops with El-Sayed, when the candidate said he would support whoever won the primary, Ocasio-Cortez nodded along. She talked less about the abolition of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, an issue elevated by her campaign but still seen as risky for swing-district Democrats.

At the Netroots conference, ­Ocasio-Cortez argued that Democrats would win when they behaved like Republicans — sticking to their values, instead of chasing swing voters.

“They have won while clinging tighter and tighter to their base and convincing us to stray from ours,” Ocasio-Cortez said. “It’s time for us to remember that universal college education, trade school, a federal jobs guarantee, a universal basic income, were not all proposed in 2016. They were proposed in 1940, by the Democratic president of the United States.”

There’s little evidence that the argument inside the Democratic Party has hurt its November prospects. In Tuesday’s special election for Ohio’s 12th congressional district, Democratic nominee Danny O’Connor fought his GOP opponent to a standstill with an electorate that had backed President Trump by 11 points in 2016. In the generic ballot average tabulated by FiveThirtyEight, Democrats held a 5.7-percentage-point lead on June 26. Six weeks later — after plenty of discussion of whether the party was lurching too far left — the lead had inched up to 8 points.

Democrats were also heading to the polls in larger numbers than Republicans. By the end of June, 13.6 million votes had been cast in Democratic primaries, compared with 10.4 million in Republican primaries. Since 2014, the last midterm year, Republican turnout had grown by 24 percent; Democratic turnout had surged by 84 percent. That trend appeared to continue on Tuesday, with Democrats running far ahead of their turnout four years earlier in Kansas and Michigan.

For the party’s labor wing, Tuesday’s results in Missouri provided more reason for optimism. By a nearly 2-1 margin, the state’s voters struck down a “right to work” law passed by the Republican legislature. In an interview, AFL-CIO President Richard L. Trumka said labor unions had proved that even voters who had given Trump a chance in 2016 could be organized against unpopular Republican ideas.

“We know who was behind this,” Trumka said. “We’re going to remind voters of that all the way through November.”
But the Democrats’ internal debate will continue. Eleven more states will hold primaries before the midterms, with many of them featuring battles between the centrist and left wings of the party. On Thursday, two days before Hawaii’s primaries, Ocasio-Cortez will speak in the state on behalf of Kaniela Ing, a member of the Democratic Socialists of America who is running for the House. In an interview, he said his rivals had made the race tougher by attempting to mirror the left’s most popular issues, like Medicare for all.

“It’s difficult to get the message out there, especially when my opponents say the same thing as me in public, and something else to donors behind closed doors,” Ing said. “It means a lot to have Alexandria coming out here.”


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:37 pm 
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It's the Midwest, of course the moderate Democrats would win.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Bob Juch wrote:
It's the Midwest, of course the moderate Democrats would win.
I don't think Kevin deLeon is getting that much traction here in California against Dianne Feinstein. --Bob

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:47 pm 
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The Washington Post fact-checkers had a few minutes to spare because Trump’s on vacation, so they refuted Ocasio-Cortez’s most outrageous claims.

Fact-checking Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s media blitz

Beaching the paywall...
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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the 28-year-old self-described “democratic socialist” who unexpectedly toppled a top Democratic incumbent in the primary for New York’s 14th Congressional District, is a sudden media star even though she has not been elected to Congress. (She has no real competition in the general election.)

With celebrity comes scrutiny. Ocasio-Cortez has come under fire for dismissing concerns about the anticipated costs of her proposals and offering too-glib answers.

For instance, in an appearance on CNN on Monday, when challenged on the costs of government-financed health care, she answered: “Why aren’t we incorporating the cost of all the funeral expenses of those who died because they can’t afford access to health care? That is part of the cost of our system.”

Huh?

Several readers have asked us to vet some of her claims and, because of summer vacation schedules, we’ve been a bit slower to follow up than our fact-checking colleagues. So here’s a quick roundup of some of her recent eyebrow-raising claims, though to be fair to Ocasio-Cortez, the average member of Congress might easily make many bloopers over the course of so many live interviews.

As is our practice, we do not award Pinocchios in roundups. But we will be watching Ocasio-Cortez closely as she continues her media blitz. A spokesman for her campaign did not respond to a request for comment.

“Unemployment is low because everyone has two jobs. Unemployment is low because people are working 60, 70, 80 hours a week and can barely feed their family.”

interview on PBS’s “Firing Line,” July 13, 2018

This is an example of sweeping language — “everyone has two jobs” — that can get a rookie politician in trouble. She may personally know people who have two jobs, but the data is pretty clear that this statement is poppycock.

First of all, Bureau of Labor Statistics data shows that the percentage of people working two jobs has actually declined since the Great Recession — and been relatively steady at around 5 percent since 2010. The percentage bounced around a bit but it was as low as 4.7 percent in October 2017 and was 5.2 percent in the July jobs report, the most recent available. That hardly adds up to “everyone.”

“After reaching a peak of 6.2 percent during 1995-96, the multiple job-holding rate began to recede,” the BLS noted in a report. “By the mid-2000s, the rate had declined to 5.2 percent and remained close to that level from 2006 to 2009. In 2010, the multiple job-holding rate decreased to 4.9 percent and has remained at 4.9 percent or 5.0 percent from 2010 to 2017.”
The July data shows most of these people juggling two jobs — 58 percent — have a primary job and a part-time job. Only 6 percent have two full-time jobs, which calls into question her claim that people are working “60, 70, 80 hours a week.” Indeed, the average hours worked per week for private employees has remained steady at just under 35 hours for years.

“ICE is the only criminal investigative agency, the only enforcement agency in the United States, that has a bed quota. So ICE is required to fill 34,000 beds with detainees every single night and that number has only been increasing since 2009.”

— in an interview with the Intercepted podcast, May 30

As our friends at PolitiFact documented, this is an urban legend. There is language in the 2016 appropriations bill that requires ICE to have 34,000 beds available — ICE “shall maintain a level of not less than 34,000 detention beds through September 30, 2016” — but it is not required to fill them. The main point of such language, a version of which dated to 2009, is to make sure the money is not spent on something else.

In 2014, in an exchange with Republican lawmakers, then-Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson testified that he did not view it as a mandate to fill the beds. “That’s beds, not people,” Johnson said.

In any case, the language was eliminated in the 2017 and 2018 appropriations bills. So it’s not even an issue anymore.

“They [national Democrats] were campaigning most when we had more of an American middle class. This upper-middle class is probably more moderate but that upper-middle class does not exist anymore in America.”

interview on “Pod Save America,” Aug. 7

Here’s some more sweeping rhetoric. In knocking the current leaders of the Democrats, stuck in “ ’90s politics,” Ocasio-Cortez said the “upper-middle class does not exist anymore.”

But the data show that while the middle class overall may have shrunk a bit, the upper-middle class has actually grown. In a 2016 paper published by the Urban Institute, Stephen J. Rose documented that the upper-middle class has grown substantially, from 12.9 percent of the population in 1979 to 29.4 percent in 2014. His analysis showed that there was a massive shift in the center of gravity of the economy, with an increasing share of income going to the upper-middle class and rich.

“In 1979, the middle class controlled a bit more than 46 percent of all incomes, and the upper-middle class and rich controlled 30 percent,” Rose wrote. “In contrast, in 2014 the rich and upper-middle class controlled 63 percent of all incomes (52 percent for the upper-middle class and 11 percent for the rich); the middle class share had shrunk to 26 percent; and the shares of the lower-middle class, poor, and near-poor had declined by half.”

“In a Koch brothers-funded study — if any study’s going to try to be a little bit slanted, it would be one funded by the Koch brothers — it shows that Medicare for all is actually much more, is actually much cheaper than the current system that we pay right now.”

interview on CNN’s “Cuomo Prime Time,” Aug. 8

We recently gave this sort of claim Three Pinocchios. Some Democrats have seized on a reference in a study released by the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, which receives some funding from the Koch Foundation, that a Medicare-for-all plan advanced by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) would reduce the country’s overall level of health expenditures by $2 trillion from 2022 to 2031. That’s because the Sanders plan would slash payments to providers by 40 percent.

But the study makes clear that this is an unrealistic assumption and in fact the plan would raise government expenditures by $32.6 trillion over 10 years. Without the provider cuts, the additional federal budget cost would be nearly $40 trillion. So, no matter how you slice it, the study does not say it would be “much cheaper” than the current system.

“The reason that the Supreme Court upheld the Affordable Care Act is because they ruled that each of these monthly payments that everyday American make is a tax. And so, while it may not seem like we pay that tax on April 15th, we pay it every single month or we do pay at tax season if we don’t buy, you know, these plans off of the exchange.”

interview on CNN’s “Cuomo Prime Time,” Aug. 8

This appears to be an example of not understanding policy nuances.

In the 5-4 opinion written by Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., the Affordable Care Act was deemed to be an appropriate exercise of the government’s taxing power. But Roberts was not referring to the monthly premium payments, as Ocasio-Cortez claims. Instead, Roberts was referring to the individual mandate to buy insurance — and the requirement to pay an annual penalty when filing a tax return if one did not buy health insurance.

“The Affordable Care Act’s requirement that certain individuals pay a financial penalty for not obtaining health insurance may reasonably be characterized as a tax,” Roberts wrote. “Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness.”

Ironically, the Obama administration had passed the law insisting the mandate was not a tax.


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