I'd never heard that expression before (FL Gov.)

[flockofseagulls104]

That's because incidents like this ARE innocent.

Apparently, Sandra Smith of Fox News disagrees with you and Flock.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/foxs-sandra ... -language/

Well, it seems Melly and T-Bone disagree with Sandra Smith. Checkmate.

What you and bob-tel and bj and the thousands of people like you don't understand is every time you promote this kind of hateful garbage, you do damage to yourselves. It makes reasonable people, even those who might agree with you on real issues, believe you are insane. I would definitely vote for a reasonable democrat who I might not agree with on most issues but does not blindly follow the party line. But I don't know of any.

[flockofseagulls104]

This is war. A war for the direction the country is going to go in. All is fair.

Both sides use anything they can as ammunition.

People like you are the best ammunition your opposition has.

[Ritterskoop]

I vote that someone tangled up their words, trying to blend two idioms, and that it is not racist. We've all been there.

I also vote that the word "racist" means only that someone thinks they are better than another race, not that someone has mentioned a thing that has to do with race. But I am old, I guess.

[silverscreenselect]

Darn, I usually do everything Sandy tells me to do.
Um, who the hell is she? Is she like hannity?

She is the reporter who conducted the on-air interview with DeSantis.

[silverscreenselect]

This is war. A war for the direction the country is going to go in. All is fair.

Both sides use anything they can as ammunition.

People like you are the best ammunition your opposition has.

Funny, Flock, but I was thinking the same thing.

[silverscreenselect]

Although I know very few of the people on this Bored in person, my feeling is that most of the people who have been commenting on this thread are white and have never been called monkeys or been the butt of monkey jokes as a lot of black people have. So, these terms have a more deeply hurtful impact on blacks. Gillum's supporters picked up on that. Ana Navarro, who is Hispanic, picked up on that. So, I'm not sure any of us, liberal or conservative, can appreciate the impact some of those slurs have.

[flockofseagulls104]

I vote that someone tangled up their words, trying to blend two idioms, and that it is not racist. We've all been there.

I also vote that the word "racist" means only that someone thinks they are better than another race, not that someone has mentioned a thing that has to do with race. But I am old, I guess.

That's the dictionary definition.

[flockofseagulls104]

Although I know very few of the people on this Bored in person, my feeling is that most of the people who have been commenting on this thread are white and have never been called monkeys or been the butt of monkey jokes as a lot of black people have. So, these terms have a more deeply hurtful impact on blacks. Gillum's supporters picked up on that. Ana Navarro, who is Hispanic, picked up on that. So, I'm not sure any of us, liberal or conservative, can appreciate the impact some of those slurs have.

I'm white and have never used the term monkey, or any other epithet, for that matter, to refer to a black person, or can remember ever hearing anyone else use it in that way, except in fiction or on TV. I am even reluctant to call them 'black'. They are just people, I don't care what the skin color is. My grandmother used to use the N-Word when referring to Reggie Jackson. (She actually liked him and was a huge Yankee fan). I think that's the last time I heard that word uttered by someone in person. But I've probably lived a sheltered life.

But I'm sure you'll correct me. You always do.

It might be easier if you admit you're wrong on this subject, which is obvious, and many others, for which you owe me a public apology.

[jarnon]

I'm white and have never used the term monkey, or any other epithet, for that matter, to refer to a black person, or can remember ever hearing anyone else use it in that way, except in fiction or on TV.

I've heard Russians use obezyana, meaning "black baboon."

I don't think DeSantis had any racist intent.

[mellytu74]

Although I know very few of the people on this Bored in person, my feeling is that most of the people who have been commenting on this thread are white and have never been called monkeys or been the butt of monkey jokes as a lot of black people have. So, these terms have a more deeply hurtful impact on blacks. Gillum's supporters picked up on that. Ana Navarro, who is Hispanic, picked up on that. So, I'm not sure any of us, liberal or conservative, can appreciate the impact some of those slurs have.

sss -

I think you misunderstood me. I think this is the case of a guy getting tongue-tied.

That does NOT mean, however, that I do not think deSantis is not capable of throwing around some pretty whack stuff. I am not sure that someone who willingly shares a platform with Steve Bannon and some cheesy alt-right types in a rally isn't. And, given the timing - right after he won - and his history (the alt-right rally guys), it's easy to think that it was deliberate. I do not think that was the case.

And I agree with Ana Navarro much of the time and respect her outlook.

I grew up in a neighborhood that was changing in the 1960s. The first time I heard a black person called a monkey, I was 10. I was walking from dancing school with my new friend, Wynetta. She was 10, too. I've thought her often - especially the times when Michelle Obama was ridiculed as an ape. Because I've never forgotten the pain and hurt on her face when we were 10.

I find it somewhat disappointing, frankly, that you think that any of us (including yourself) are incapable of understanding the depth of someone else's pain. Or the power of hurtful words.

[Bob Juch]

I'm white and have never used the term monkey, or any other epithet, for that matter, to refer to a black person, or can remember ever hearing anyone else use it in that way, except in fiction or on TV.

I've heard Russians use obezyana, meaning "black baboon."

I don't think DeSantis had any racist intent.

No, "obezyana" is just "monkey".

[silverscreenselect]

It might be easier if you admit you're wrong on this subject, which is obvious, and many others, for which you owe me a public apology.

It wasn't obvious to Ana Novarro, and it wasn't obvious to Sandra Smith, who was the person actually talking to DeSantis. As for making a public apology to you, I'd have to have something to apologize for first.

[Spock]

The Republican nominee for Governor of Florida warned that voters would "monkey this up" if they voted for his opponent. I don't think I've ever heard that expression before. (The expression I'm more familiar with is "muck this up.") Of course, his turn of phrase can't possibly have anything to do with the race of the Democratic nominee. That would mean he's trying to appeal to racists, and no credible Republican candidate would ever do that. --Bob

Even though Obama himself used the phrase in 2008, lets IMMEDIATELY turn the outrage meter to 110%.

https://www.breitbart.com/big-governmen ... elections/

On further thought, has nobody here really ever used the phrase (or derivations thereof) or in Bob's (our resident hothouse flower) case even heard?

"Don't monkey with that dial."

[Bob78164]

1) OK - as most of you know, I am pretty left-of-center.

2) This has been all over the place - DeSantis said it on Fox and other outlets have picked it up.

3) I think I have a pretty good idea what happened here.

DeSantis was going for something like "mess it up" and was, perhaps, drifting toward eff it up or something unacceptable.

So, he switched gears and thought of saying something like "throw a monkey wrench into," which is a pretty long-standing phrase in my neck of the woods.

Except it didn't come out that way.

I am the last person in the world who would defend a Donald Trump supporter who DID say something truly racist.

I think he just got tongue-tied. I do not think there was racist intent here -- although it certainly did not come out well.

Sorry, melly, but now that I've seen the video (I had been relying on transcripts), I can't agree. His delivery was absolutely smooth and unhesitating, with no indication at all that he was stumbling over words. Like former RNC head Michael Steele, I don't see any reason to give him the benefit of the doubt on this. I think he said exactly what he intended to say.

I'll add the points made by Steele. In the preceding sentences, DeSantis made a point of Gillis being "articulate" and said he "performed well." These are not points I see made about white professional politicians because they're taken for granted. Making those points about a black candidate is intended to suggest that it's surprising that a black candidate would be articulate or perform well. --Bob

[Bob78164]

The Republican nominee for Governor of Florida warned that voters would "monkey this up" if they voted for his opponent. I don't think I've ever heard that expression before. (The expression I'm more familiar with is "muck this up.") Of course, his turn of phrase can't possibly have anything to do with the race of the Democratic nominee. That would mean he's trying to appeal to racists, and no credible Republican candidate would ever do that. --Bob

Even though Obama himself used the phrase in 2008, lets IMMEDIATELY turn the outrage meter to 110%.

https://www.breitbart.com/big-governmen ... elections/

On further thought, has nobody here really ever used the phrase (or derivations thereof) or in Bob's (our resident hothouse flower) case even heard?

"Don't monkey with that dial."

I've heard the expression "monkey around." I've heard the expression "monkey with." I've never heard the expression "monkey this up."

You might pay some attention to how Republicans of color heard what he said. --Bob

[BackInTex]

The Republican nominee for Governor of Florida warned that voters would "monkey this up" if they voted for his opponent. I don't think I've ever heard that expression before. (The expression I'm more familiar with is "muck this up.") Of course, his turn of phrase can't possibly have anything to do with the race of the Democratic nominee. That would mean he's trying to appeal to racists, and no credible Republican candidate would ever do that. --Bob

Even though Obama himself used the phrase in 2008, lets IMMEDIATELY turn the outrage meter to 110%.

https://www.breitbart.com/big-governmen ... elections/

On further thought, has nobody here really ever used the phrase (or derivations thereof) or in Bob's (our resident hothouse flower) case even heard?

"Don't monkey with that dial."

I've heard the expression "monkey around." I've heard the expression "monkey with." I've never heard the expression "monkey this up."

You might pay some attention to how Republicans of color heard what he said. --Bob

This Republican of color heard it as it was intended, without malice.

[mellytu74]

1) OK - as most of you know, I am pretty left-of-center.

2) This has been all over the place - DeSantis said it on Fox and other outlets have picked it up.

3) I think I have a pretty good idea what happened here.

DeSantis was going for something like "mess it up" and was, perhaps, drifting toward eff it up or something unacceptable.

So, he switched gears and thought of saying something like "throw a monkey wrench into," which is a pretty long-standing phrase in my neck of the woods.

Except it didn't come out that way.

I am the last person in the world who would defend a Donald Trump supporter who DID say something truly racist.

I think he just got tongue-tied. I do not think there was racist intent here -- although it certainly did not come out well.

Sorry, melly, but now that I've seen the video (I had been relying on transcripts), I can't agree. His delivery was absolutely smooth and unhesitating, with no indication at all that he was stumbling over words. Like former RNC head Michael Steele, I don't see any reason to give him the benefit of the doubt on this. I think he said exactly what he intended to say.

I'll add the points made by Steele. In the preceding sentences, DeSantis made a point of Gillis being "articulate" and said he "performed well." These are not points I see made about white professional politicians because they're taken for granted. Making those points about a black candidate is intended to suggest that it's surprising that a black candidate would be articulate or perform well. --Bob

I have not seen the video - I have been doing the puzzle and some other stuff.

I would be very interested to hear Michael Steele on this. On what show did he appear, so I can look it up and watch.


EDITED: OK. I just heard it. There was no hesitation or stumbling. Clear, concise, direct.

I still would like to hear what Michael Steele said.

[Bob78164]

1) OK - as most of you know, I am pretty left-of-center.

2) This has been all over the place - DeSantis said it on Fox and other outlets have picked it up.

3) I think I have a pretty good idea what happened here.

DeSantis was going for something like "mess it up" and was, perhaps, drifting toward eff it up or something unacceptable.

So, he switched gears and thought of saying something like "throw a monkey wrench into," which is a pretty long-standing phrase in my neck of the woods.

Except it didn't come out that way.

I am the last person in the world who would defend a Donald Trump supporter who DID say something truly racist.

I think he just got tongue-tied. I do not think there was racist intent here -- although it certainly did not come out well.

Sorry, melly, but now that I've seen the video (I had been relying on transcripts), I can't agree. His delivery was absolutely smooth and unhesitating, with no indication at all that he was stumbling over words. Like former RNC head Michael Steele, I don't see any reason to give him the benefit of the doubt on this. I think he said exactly what he intended to say.

I'll add the points made by Steele. In the preceding sentences, DeSantis made a point of Gillis being "articulate" and said he "performed well." These are not points I see made about white professional politicians because they're taken for granted. Making those points about a black candidate is intended to suggest that it's surprising that a black candidate would be articulate or perform well. --Bob

I have not seen the video - I have been doing the puzzle and some other stuff.

I would be very interested to hear Michael Steele on this. On what show did he appear, so I can look it up and watch.

Here's a link to the Steele segment on MSNBC, which includes video of the DeSantis statement in context. --Bob

[BackInTex]

Bob, here is a link to Ben Shapiro's take. It has a lot of logic presented so it may be difficult for you to understand, but read it slowly. Maybe read it twice.

Ron DeSantis Just Dropped A Racist Dog Whistle? That's Silly.

[Bob78164]

Bob, here is a link to Ben Shapiro's take. It has a lot of logic presented so it may be difficult for you to understand, but read it slowly. Maybe read it twice.

Ron DeSantis Just Dropped A Racist Dog Whistle? That's Silly.

BiT, I have refrained from insulting either your intelligence or your motives. It would have been easy, for instance, to take the cheap shot of saying that your earlier statement was half right -- you heard his statement as it was intended. I didn't, because although I think you're far too willing to accept innocent explanations for coded racism, I don't think you yourself are racist, and that's what the cheap shot would have implied.

You've met me. You know damn well I'm not stupid. Insulting my intelligence does nothing for your position. --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

Bob, here is a link to Ben Shapiro's take. It has a lot of logic presented so it may be difficult for you to understand, but read it slowly. Maybe read it twice.

Ron DeSantis Just Dropped A Racist Dog Whistle? That's Silly.

Was DeSantis so clever about his wording that he knew that a common phrase, applied to a socialist candidate who happens to be black, would activate his evil white supremacist voters? If so, why wasn’t he clever enough to realize that the world would come crashing down on him? After all, that was pretty predictable, wasn’t it?

"Monkey it up" is not a common phrase and it's very different from a monkey on someone's back. And as far as Shapiro's question about why wasn't DeSantis clever enough to realize the world would come crashing down on him, the answer is that Republicans increasingly don't care. They can't compete on the issues. They certainly can't compete on Donald Trump, so they go with what's left, to try to rile up their white core constituency with appeals to fear (MS-13 is coming!) and to white identity. So that core constituency reacts precisely as people on the Bored have done... rush to defend and close ranks.

That's all the Republicans have to campaign on this year.

[flockofseagulls104]

1) OK - as most of you know, I am pretty left-of-center.

2) This has been all over the place - DeSantis said it on Fox and other outlets have picked it up.

3) I think I have a pretty good idea what happened here.

DeSantis was going for something like "mess it up" and was, perhaps, drifting toward eff it up or something unacceptable.

So, he switched gears and thought of saying something like "throw a monkey wrench into," which is a pretty long-standing phrase in my neck of the woods.

Except it didn't come out that way.

I am the last person in the world who would defend a Donald Trump supporter who DID say something truly racist.

I think he just got tongue-tied. I do not think there was racist intent here -- although it certainly did not come out well.

Sorry, melly, but now that I've seen the video (I had been relying on transcripts), I can't agree. His delivery was absolutely smooth and unhesitating, with no indication at all that he was stumbling over words. Like former RNC head Michael Steele, I don't see any reason to give him the benefit of the doubt on this. I think he said exactly what he intended to say.

I'll add the points made by Steele. In the preceding sentences, DeSantis made a point of Gillis being "articulate" and said he "performed well." These are not points I see made about white professional politicians because they're taken for granted. Making those points about a black candidate is intended to suggest that it's surprising that a black candidate would be articulate or perform well. --Bob

I believe I remember Joe Biden saying much the same condescending words about Obama.
Remind me again how you called him a racist...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/31/biden.obama/

[jarnon]

That's all the Republicans have to campaign on this year.

That, and the tax cut, low unemployment, high stock market, stronger defense and homeland security, and tough on crime. Plus, as DeSantis reminds us every chance he gets, his opponent is a socialist.

The Democrats have plenty of strong issues to campaign on. If we de-emphasize them and dwell on every Republican faux pas, as we did in 2016, the result will be the same.

[silverscreenselect]

That's all the Republicans have to campaign on this year.

That, and the tax cut, low unemployment, high stock market, stronger defense and homeland security, and tough on crime. Plus, as DeSantis reminds us every chance he gets, his opponent is a socialist.

The Democrats have plenty of strong issues to campaign on. If we de-emphasize them and dwell on every Republican faux pas, as we did in 2016, the result will be the same.

I won't get into how valid these issues are, but they haven't been very successful with voters so far according to all the polling, which is why the Republicans don't dwell on them in their campaigning so far. How often have you heard Republican candidates talking about the tax cut?

[mellytu74]

1) OK - as most of you know, I am pretty left-of-center.

2) This has been all over the place - DeSantis said it on Fox and other outlets have picked it up.

3) I think I have a pretty good idea what happened here.

DeSantis was going for something like "mess it up" and was, perhaps, drifting toward eff it up or something unacceptable.

So, he switched gears and thought of saying something like "throw a monkey wrench into," which is a pretty long-standing phrase in my neck of the woods.

Except it didn't come out that way.

I am the last person in the world who would defend a Donald Trump supporter who DID say something truly racist.

I think he just got tongue-tied. I do not think there was racist intent here -- although it certainly did not come out well.

Sorry, melly, but now that I've seen the video (I had been relying on transcripts), I can't agree. His delivery was absolutely smooth and unhesitating, with no indication at all that he was stumbling over words. Like former RNC head Michael Steele, I don't see any reason to give him the benefit of the doubt on this. I think he said exactly what he intended to say.

I'll add the points made by Steele. In the preceding sentences, DeSantis made a point of Gillis being "articulate" and said he "performed well." These are not points I see made about white professional politicians because they're taken for granted. Making those points about a black candidate is intended to suggest that it's surprising that a black candidate would be articulate or perform well. --Bob

I believe I remember Joe Biden saying much the same condescending words about Obama.
Remind me again how you called him a racist...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/31/biden.obama/

Truthfully, first thing I thought of. Articulate. I winced when Biden did that.

However, I suspect that DeSantis and Gillum will not develop the deep and abiding friendship that Obama and Biden have developed.