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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:20 pm 
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In 2014 (on page 4), the CBO projected that under the Affordable Care Act there would be approximately 29 million uninsured Americans by 2018, down from 42 million in 2014. It turns out (page 2, Table 1), that the CBO was absolutely right. --Bob

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:33 pm 
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Wow. That is freakin' amazing. Does it tell us how many of the now insured were uninsured because they didn't want be and now the only reason they are is because the are being forced to or they will be fined by the IRS?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:42 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
Wow. That is freakin' amazing. Does it tell us how many of the now insured were uninsured because they didn't want be and now the only reason they are is because the are being forced to or they will be fined by the IRS?
I don't know how many of those people were planning to stiff their doctors, or impose their costs on those of us who are financially responsible if they ever needed care. But I really don't have any sympathy for them, because they were shifting the costs of their medical care to me, making my coverage more expensive. And of course, this year no one has to worry about being assessed an additional tax by the IRS because of the individual mandate -- that's one of the ways Donny and his Republican enablers tried (with only limited success so far) to break the system. --Bob

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:03 pm 
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On the other hand, I have a lot of sympathy for people who have pre-existing conditions, and were previously unable to get insurance at an affordable price, or at any price at all. And I have a lot of sympathy for people who wanted insurance but couldn't afford it because they didn't earn enough money. We've taken care of those groups, and at a price considerably less than the cost of Donny's tax cut for himself and his buddies. --Bob

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:32 am 
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and what good is this insurance these people have been forced to buy when they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles.

but hey, we made a bunch a people feel good about themselves for ramming this down the throats of the people who didn't want it.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:56 am 
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triviawayne wrote:
and what good is this insurance these people have been forced to buy when they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles.

but hey, we made a bunch a people feel good about themselves for ramming this down the throats of the people who didn't want it.

So what's your solution? Let them die?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:24 am 
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triviawayne wrote:
and what good is this insurance these people have been forced to buy when they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles.


Well, if they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles then how are they going to afford the full cost of medical treatment for a life-threatening condition without insurance?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:59 am 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
triviawayne wrote:
and what good is this insurance these people have been forced to buy when they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles.


Well, if they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles then how are they going to afford the full cost of medical treatment for a life-threatening condition without insurance?


Not everything is a life threatening condition. Much if not most of what people see a doctor for are not life threatening conditions. And I'd wager that most life threatening conditions are self-inflicted and requiring society to share the burden for those is morally wrong.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:04 am 
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Bob Juch wrote:
triviawayne wrote:
and what good is this insurance these people have been forced to buy when they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles.

but hey, we made a bunch a people feel good about themselves for ramming this down the throats of the people who didn't want it.

So what's your solution? Let them die?


don't you EVER pretend to act like you have any fucking idea what it's like to be poor, you don't have that right.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56440


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:06 am 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
triviawayne wrote:
and what good is this insurance these people have been forced to buy when they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles.


Well, if they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles then how are they going to afford the full cost of medical treatment for a life-threatening condition without insurance?


having the insurance does not give you access to quality medical care, especially when you can't pay the co-pays and deductibles. I've been homeless three times, and have had Cadillac insurance but couldn't use it because I didn't have the money for the co-pays and deductibles.

Forcing poor people to pay for insurance they can't afford, and don't have the money to use doesn't make things better for them, it makes things worse because now they don't have the money they paid for the premiums to keep the lights on, put gas in the car to get to work, or here's a really wild concept--eat!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:34 am 
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triviawayne wrote:
Forcing poor people to pay for insurance they can't afford, and don't have the money to use doesn't make things better for them, it makes things worse


First, there are hardship exemptions available for those with minimal incomes so they aren't forced to pay for insurance. Second, many lower income individuals will get coverage through Medicaid, at least in the 31 states that have expanded Medicaid to cover them.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:35 am 
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triviawayne wrote:
having the insurance does not give you access to quality medical care, especially when you can't pay the co-pays and deductibles. I've been homeless three times, and have had Cadillac insurance but couldn't use it because I didn't have the money for the co-pays and deductibles.

Forcing poor people to pay for insurance they can't afford, and don't have the money to use doesn't make things better for them, it makes things worse because now they don't have the money they paid for the premiums to keep the lights on, put gas in the car to get to work, or here's a really wild concept--eat!
Obamacare tried to avoid these situations with income-based subsidies, and preventive care with no co-pay. Obviously it doesn't always work. Some states like New Jersey are trying to fix Obamacare's problems locally. Congress should see what ideas work and adopt them nationwide, instead of throwing Obamacare away and replacing it with nothing (Republicans) or single payer (Democrats).


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:37 am 
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triviawayne wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
triviawayne wrote:
and what good is this insurance these people have been forced to buy when they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles.


Well, if they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles then how are they going to afford the full cost of medical treatment for a life-threatening condition without insurance?


having the insurance does not give you access to quality medical care, especially when you can't pay the co-pays and deductibles. I've been homeless three times, and have had Cadillac insurance but couldn't use it because I didn't have the money for the co-pays and deductibles.

Forcing poor people to pay for insurance they can't afford, and don't have the money to use doesn't make things better for them, it makes things worse because now they don't have the money they paid for the premiums to keep the lights on, put gas in the car to get to work, or here's a really wild concept--eat!

But if the uninsured need health care, don't they go to the emergency room of the local hospital, which can't turn them away for inability to pay? In that case, who picks up the tab for their medical care? The taxpayer. Meaning that those of us who can afford insurance are not only paying for our own health care but are forced to pay the costs for the uninsured. Is that fair?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:40 am 
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triviawayne wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
triviawayne wrote:
and what good is this insurance these people have been forced to buy when they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles.


Well, if they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles then how are they going to afford the full cost of medical treatment for a life-threatening condition without insurance?


having the insurance does not give you access to quality medical care, especially when you can't pay the co-pays and deductibles. I've been homeless three times, and have had Cadillac insurance but couldn't use it because I didn't have the money for the co-pays and deductibles.

Forcing poor people to pay for insurance they can't afford, and don't have the money to use doesn't make things better for them, it makes things worse because now they don't have the money they paid for the premiums to keep the lights on, put gas in the car to get to work, or here's a really wild concept--eat!
Poor people are eligible for Medicaid, which I understand to be free to the policyholder. I’ve gotta believe that someone who’s homeless is eligible, except maybe for those states (all controlled by Republicans) that refused to expand Medicaid, which they could only do because five conservative Justices invented a new doctrine to reach the conclusion that they didn’t have to. Many others are eligible for subsidies by purchasing through exchanges. —Bob

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:50 am 
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Bob78164 wrote:
triviawayne wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:

Well, if they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles then how are they going to afford the full cost of medical treatment for a life-threatening condition without insurance?


having the insurance does not give you access to quality medical care, especially when you can't pay the co-pays and deductibles. I've been homeless three times, and have had Cadillac insurance but couldn't use it because I didn't have the money for the co-pays and deductibles.

Forcing poor people to pay for insurance they can't afford, and don't have the money to use doesn't make things better for them, it makes things worse because now they don't have the money they paid for the premiums to keep the lights on, put gas in the car to get to work, or here's a really wild concept--eat!
Poor people are eligible for Medicaid, which I understand to be free to the policyholder. I’ve gotta believe that someone who’s homeless is eligible, except maybe for those states (all controlled by Republicans) that refused to expand Medicaid, which they could only do because five conservative Justices invented a new doctrine to reach the conclusion that they didn’t have to. Many others are eligible for subsidies by purchasing through exchanges. —Bob

Those damn republicans. They want everyone to die. How can decent people live on the same planet with 'em? Monkeys, every one of them.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:58 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
triviawayne wrote:

having the insurance does not give you access to quality medical care, especially when you can't pay the co-pays and deductibles. I've been homeless three times, and have had Cadillac insurance but couldn't use it because I didn't have the money for the co-pays and deductibles.

Forcing poor people to pay for insurance they can't afford, and don't have the money to use doesn't make things better for them, it makes things worse because now they don't have the money they paid for the premiums to keep the lights on, put gas in the car to get to work, or here's a really wild concept--eat!
Poor people are eligible for Medicaid, which I understand to be free to the policyholder. I’ve gotta believe that someone who’s homeless is eligible, except maybe for those states (all controlled by Republicans) that refused to expand Medicaid, which they could only do because five conservative Justices invented a new doctrine to reach the conclusion that they didn’t have to. Many others are eligible for subsidies by purchasing through exchanges. —Bob

Those damn republicans. They want everyone to die. How can decent people live on the same planet with 'em? Monkeys, every one of them.
When they refused to expand Medicaid, they put people’s lives at risk to advance a political ideology. That’s indefensible. —Bob

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:05 am 
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BackInTex wrote:
And I'd wager that most life threatening conditions are self-inflicted and requiring society to share the burden for those is morally wrong.



Wow.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:19 am 
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T_Bone0806 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
And I'd wager that most life threatening conditions are self-inflicted and requiring society to share the burden for those is morally wrong.



Wow.


Just curious, what part are you "wow"ing at?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:23 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Those damn republicans. They want everyone to die.


No, just the sick ones apparently. At least some of those House and Senate dwellers, judging by the proposals they originally came up with to eliminate Obamacare. Cheap, ultimately insufficient coverage for healthy folks, high risks and pre-existing conditioned people faced with non-affordable premiums and not getting the care they need, in worse case scenarios resulting in loss of life. But hey, survival of the fittest. If they are like to die, then they should do it, and decrease the surplus population.

Scrooge would fit right in with some of those dudes.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:25 am 
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BackInTex wrote:
T_Bone0806 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
And I'd wager that most life threatening conditions are self-inflicted and requiring society to share the burden for those is morally wrong.



Wow.


Just curious, what part are you "wow"ing at?



The "self-inflicted" part. I realize you said "most", but to me, "most" is still off-base.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:43 am 
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T_Bone0806 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
T_Bone0806 wrote:


Wow.


Just curious, what part are you "wow"ing at?



The "self-inflicted" part. I realize you said "most", but to me, "most" is still off-base.


We could debate that but smoking, obesity, lack of exercise, poor diet, and drug use are pretty much all self-inflicted and probably are the main contributing factors in most life threatening medical conditions for folks under 65 or 70. There are some minor exceptions for obesity and poor diet being self-inflicted.

Maybe I'd lose that wager, but how about saying a large portion of life threatening conditions?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:48 am 
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triviawayne wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
triviawayne wrote:
and what good is this insurance these people have been forced to buy when they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles.

but hey, we made a bunch a people feel good about themselves for ramming this down the throats of the people who didn't want it.

So what's your solution? Let them die?


don't you EVER pretend to act like you have any fucking idea what it's like to be poor, you don't have that right.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56440

Do you EVER pretend to know my life history. Apart from that, my daughter and her two daughters are barely making it and can't afford copays and deductibles.

I'm in favor of a single-payer system. What would you like to see?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:55 am 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
triviawayne wrote:
Forcing poor people to pay for insurance they can't afford, and don't have the money to use doesn't make things better for them, it makes things worse


First, there are hardship exemptions available for those with minimal incomes so they aren't forced to pay for insurance. Second, many lower income individuals will get coverage through Medicaid, at least in the 31 states that have expanded Medicaid to cover them.


Like I first asked, how many are being forced to pay for insurance that they can't afford to use--the stats aren't showing that because the politicians don't care about it.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:56 am 
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Bob Juch wrote:
triviawayne wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
So what's your solution? Let them die?


don't you EVER pretend to act like you have any fucking idea what it's like to be poor, you don't have that right.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56440

Do you EVER pretend to know my life history. Apart from that, my daughter and her two daughters are barely making it and can't afford copays and deductibles.

I'm in favor of a single-payer system. What would you like to see?


so, how many times have you been homeless?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:57 am 
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Bob Juch wrote:
triviawayne wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
So what's your solution? Let them die?


don't you EVER pretend to act like you have any fucking idea what it's like to be poor, you don't have that right.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56440

Do you EVER pretend to know my life history. Apart from that, my daughter and her two daughters are barely making it and can't afford copays and deductibles.

I'm in favor of a single-payer system. What would you like to see?


how many times have you gone without food?


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