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 Post subject: NC 9
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:04 pm 
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The North Carolina Board of Elections has unanimously refused to certify the narrow Republican victory in North Carolina’s 9th Congressional District. They have received credible evidence of absentee ballot fraud that may have been sufficient in scope to flip the election to the Republican. The Board, which consists of 4 Democrats, 4 Republicans, and 1 unaffiliated voter, has subpoena power and is investigating. —Bob

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
The North Carolina Board of Elections has unanimously refused to certify the narrow Republican victory in North Carolina’s 9th Congressional District. They have received credible evidence of absentee ballot fraud that may have been sufficient in scope to flip the election to the Republican. The Board, which consists of 4 Democrats, 4 Republicans, and 1 unaffiliated voter, has subpoena power and is investigating. —Bob


Please refresh my memory here but haven't Republicans always said we don't need to worry about possible election fraud involving absentee ballots; it's just people being bussed from one county to another to vote in person multiple times that we have to enact onerous identification requirements to prevent.

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:05 pm 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
The North Carolina Board of Elections has unanimously refused to certify the narrow Republican victory in North Carolina’s 9th Congressional District. They have received credible evidence of absentee ballot fraud that may have been sufficient in scope to flip the election to the Republican. The Board, which consists of 4 Democrats, 4 Republicans, and 1 unaffiliated voter, has subpoena power and is investigating. —Bob


Please refresh my memory here but haven't Republicans always said we don't need to worry about possible election fraud involving absentee ballots; it's just people being bussed from one county to another to vote in person multiple times that we have to enact onerous identification requirements to prevent.

No, they've been whining about absentee ballot fraud in Florida's Broward County.

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:59 pm 
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I assume this means that the House of Representatives won't seat anyone from this district until the State Board certifies a winner.

I'm curious about how long an investigation can go on; I assume there are two outcomes- either declare a winner or call for a new election. Is it viable to call for revoting only in the county in question (and let other county tallies stand?)

It's a curiosity; because it doesn't really mean anything to the overall balance of power, I'm afraid this story will get buried but as mentioned earlier, it is really ironic that the evidence of fraud comes from absentee ballots and not in-person voting (duh)


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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:01 pm 
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bazodee wrote:
I'm curious about how long an investigation can go on; I assume there are two outcomes- either declare a winner or call for a new election.


The next meeting of the election board is December 21. The Board has 4 Republican, 4 Democratic and one independent members. They voted 7-2 not to certify, with two Republicans joining the four Democrats and the independent.

The Democrat led in the absentee balloting in seven of the eight counties in the district. Only in Bladon County did the Republican get 62% of the absentee votes (the Democrat got 62% district wide, with margins between 58 and 75 in the other seven counties). Only 19% of the absentee ballots in Bladon County came from Republicans.

http://www.oldnorthstatepolitics.com/20 ... -gets.html

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:25 pm 
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The Board’s Chair, a Democrat, has resigned so that his voluble opposition to Donny can’t be used to distract attention from the investigation. —Bob

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:52 pm 
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Bladen County has had a whiff of funny business for years, electionwise.

I would rather they take their time; the representative does not have to be seated for another several weeks. There is a reason we have a gap between election day and starting-off day.

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:28 am 
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Here is what 538 has to say about the race. Bottom line: something fishy clearly happened but it’s not clear whether there was enough fishiness to swing the election. Whatever was going on also seems to have affected the Republican primary. —Bob

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:04 pm 
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Here’s some more detail from the Raleigh News & Observer. This explains that the Election Board is on the verge of being dissolved. —Bob

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:45 pm 
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There were also some strange results in the absentee balloting in the Republican primary that Harris won several months earlier. He defeated incumbent Representative Robert Pittenger by approximately 2% (900 votes, although there was also a third fringe candidate in the race). However, in Bladon County, where the absentee problem seems to have occurred, he received 96% of the absentee ballots in Bladon County, an almost unheard of total in a fairly evenly contested election. The results in the primary are also under scrutiny.

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:01 pm 
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I won't mind if Harris takes the seat (I voted for McCready), but lots of people were happy when Harris beat incumbent Pittenger in the primary. That dude is a piece of work.

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:01 pm 
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Ritterskoop wrote:
I won't mind if Harris takes the seat (I voted for McCready), but lots of people were happy when Harris beat incumbent Pittenger in the primary. That dude is a piece of work.


Actually I didn't vote for McCready; we are in a different district. But I would have.

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:29 pm 
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Here's some more news. This is looking more and more like a systematic effort to "lose" absentee ballots. My understanding is that if the Board finds that the election was tainted by fraud (I can't remember the exact word I've seen in published reports), then it can invalidate the election even without evidence that there was enough fraud to swing the result. With this new evidence of a systematic effort to deprive people of their voting rights in order to assist a specific candidate, it looks to me like that standard was met. --Bob

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:11 am 
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They may have a special election, which would bring back the Libertarian as well as Harris and McCready. It would be the first time in NC for this type of election.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/ ... 63145.html

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:22 am 
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Ritterskoop wrote:
They may have a special election, which would bring back the Libertarian as well as Harris and McCready. It would be the first time in NC for this type of election.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/ ... 63145.html
Or the House itself could call for a new election in which case everyone, even the primaried incumbent, might be back in play. --Bob

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:23 am 
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Bob:

On a related issue, since you're more familiar with the ins and outs of California law than I am, a story has been making the rounds on Fox News and other right wing media the last day or so that Republican losses in the days after the balloting ended were due to "election harvesting" which is being portrayed as a nefarious practice by Democrats (which is somewhat funny, in and of itself, when you consider all the election changes and gimmickry Republicans in the other 49 states engage in any chance they get). What's the real story behind this?

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:14 pm 
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Bob should answer SSS’s question, but I happened to read a Fox News article that tells how Democrats took full advantage of a recent change to California voting law.

Ballot harvesting bounty: How Dems apparently used election law change to rout California Republicans

The article even quotes a Republican who grudgingly admires the Democrats’ ground game. It’s nice to see a Fox News article that really is “fair and balanced.”


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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:01 pm 
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jarnon wrote:
Bob should answer SSS’s question, but I happened to read a Fox News article that tells how Democrats took full advantage of a recent change to California voting law.

Ballot harvesting bounty: How Dems apparently used election law change to rout California Republicans

The article even quotes a Republican who grudgingly admires the Democrats’ ground game. It’s nice to see a Fox News article that really is “fair and balanced.”


The process seems vulnerable to electioneering as well as voter fraud. I think the Dems count on that.

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:04 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
jarnon wrote:
Bob should answer SSS’s question, but I happened to read a Fox News article that tells how Democrats took full advantage of a recent change to California voting law.

Ballot harvesting bounty: How Dems apparently used election law change to rout California Republicans

The article even quotes a Republican who grudgingly admires the Democrats’ ground game. It’s nice to see a Fox News article that really is “fair and balanced.”


The process seems vulnerable to electioneering as well as voter fraud. I think the Dems count on that.
What's still illegal in North Carolina (having someone other than a relative deliver your ballot to the polling place) is legal in California.

But it's not vulnerable to fraud. The ballot is delivered inside a sealed envelope that the voter has to sign. I don't remember for sure, but I think the signature goes across the flap of the envelope containing the ballot. Part of the reason counting ballots takes so long is that election workers then need to confirm that the signature really is that of the voter. In North Carolina, in contrast, there's evidence that "harvesters" were picking up ballots that hadn't been filled out or had only been partially filled out.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying the system is vulnerable to "electioneering." Aren't elections designed to be vulnerable to electioneering? Isn't that the whole point of an election? --Bob

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:09 pm 
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https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/reporter-finds-second-person-admits-taking-nc-09-voters-ballots-behalf-crooked-gop-operative/

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:17 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
What's still illegal in North Carolina (having someone other than a relative deliver your ballot to the polling place) is legal in California.

But it's not vulnerable to fraud. The ballot is delivered inside a sealed envelope that the voter has to sign. I don't remember for sure, but I think the signature goes across the flap of the envelope containing the ballot. Part of the reason counting ballots takes so long is that election workers then need to confirm that the signature really is that of the voter. In North Carolina, in contrast, there's evidence that "harvesters" were picking up ballots that hadn't been filled out or had only been partially filled out.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying the system is vulnerable to "electioneering." Aren't elections designed to be vulnerable to electioneering? Isn't that the whole point of an election? --Bob


Electioneering is illegal within a certain distance of the voting place for a reason. What is different about a dedicated party operative going to the home of the voter and encouraging them to complete the ballot (along with how to complete it)?

I also see where there could be quite a bit of pressure applied to vote a specific way at the time of the vote being placed. Kirby has had quite the success at harvesting votes for their brand of vacuum cleaners.

We've had a good system for a long time. If people are too lazy or apathetic to make the effort to vote then they shouldn't be voting.

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:26 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:

We've had a good system for a long time. If people are too lazy or apathetic to make the effort to vote then they shouldn't be voting.


Those people who lack reliable transportation or are physically unable to go a polling place just shouldn't be voting I guess. And I guess it's just a coincidence that lots of red states seem eager to close down voting locations in areas with heavy minority populations.

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:35 pm 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
BackInTex wrote:

We've had a good system for a long time. If people are too lazy or apathetic to make the effort to vote then they shouldn't be voting.


Those people who lack reliable transportation or are physically unable to go a polling place just shouldn't be voting I guess. And I guess it's just a coincidence that lots of red states seem eager to close down voting locations in areas with heavy minority populations.


There is an absentee ballot process for those who are physically unable to go to a polling place. I get you don't want a well controlled election process. Like I said above "the Democrats count on it [fraudl]". But I think it is important that each vote is valid and to ensure that there has to be a well defined and controlled process.

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:03 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
Like I said above "the Democrats count on it [fraudl]". But I think it is important that each vote is valid and to ensure that there has to be a well defined and controlled process.


Looks like in North Carolina, the Republicans count on fraud. Other places, they just count on suppressing the vote through bogus "anti-fraud" measures to combat non-existent fraud by making it more difficult for minorities to vote. The North Carolina Republicans have been pretty clumsy about admitting to that too.

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 Post subject: Re: NC 9
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:14 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
What's still illegal in North Carolina (having someone other than a relative deliver your ballot to the polling place) is legal in California.

But it's not vulnerable to fraud. The ballot is delivered inside a sealed envelope that the voter has to sign. I don't remember for sure, but I think the signature goes across the flap of the envelope containing the ballot. Part of the reason counting ballots takes so long is that election workers then need to confirm that the signature really is that of the voter. In North Carolina, in contrast, there's evidence that "harvesters" were picking up ballots that hadn't been filled out or had only been partially filled out.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying the system is vulnerable to "electioneering." Aren't elections designed to be vulnerable to electioneering? Isn't that the whole point of an election? --Bob


Electioneering is illegal within a certain distance of the voting place for a reason. What is different about a dedicated party operative going to the home of the voter and encouraging them to complete the ballot (along with how to complete it)?

I also see where there could be quite a bit of pressure applied to vote a specific way at the time of the vote being placed. Kirby has had quite the success at harvesting votes for their brand of vacuum cleaners.

We've had a good system for a long time. If people are too lazy or apathetic to make the effort to vote then they shouldn't be voting.
The difference between electioneering at the polling place and electioneering at the voter's home is that at home, the voter can tell the candidate's surrogate to just go away. But if a voter is willing to allow someone else tell him or her how to vote, that's the voter's right. Hell, as I've mentioned before here, my sister just fills out her own ballot the way her husband asks her to. I don't see any difference if the voter decides to allow a campaign surrogate to fulfill that role.

Republicans lost in California for one simple reason. Californians don't like what the Republican Party has done and we don't like what the Republican Party avowedly plans to do. Until and unless someone turns up with evidence that ballots were submitted that didn't reflect the voter's intent, any complaining sounds like sour grapes to me. --Bob

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