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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:05 pm 
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One thing being overlooked in the fuss over the wall is how short the requested wall is. $25 million per mile is absolutely ridiculous!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:09 pm 
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Let's say dollars are disputable. Were you against Clinton's wall or Bush's when they were happenin? Just curious if it's just a Trump thing.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:19 pm 
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Whether it works or not, Schumer and Pelosi should give him the money he wants. If it works, fine, money well spent. If it doesn't, it's not like they haven't wasted 5 billion before. Perhaps Chucky and Nancy can arrange to get kickbacks, and make it worth it to them.

In 2013, we gave Mexico almost a half billion in economic and military aid. Let's take that for 10 years and there you go!

Not to be 'without evidence':

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/nov/27/james-lankfords-government-waste-report-totals-ove/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_foreign_aid


Last edited by flockofseagulls104 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:22 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Whether it works or not, Schumer and Pelosi should give him the money he wants. If it works, fine, money well spent. If it doesn't, it's not like they haven't wasted 5 billion before.


I'm not sure "just give him what he wants" is a good principle or a good precedent for ANY President.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:23 pm 
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Beebs52 wrote:
Let's say dollars are disputable. Were you against Clinton's wall or Bush's when they were happenin? Just curious if it's just a Trump thing.
I don't recall President Clinton or (either) President Bush wanting money to build a wall in the middle of a freakin' desert, which is what Donny's talking about. That's why every single Congressman who represents any land on the border (including Rep. Will Hurd (R-TX), who represents more of the border by length than any other Member of the House) opposes the wall. --Bob

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:31 pm 
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franktangredi wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Whether it works or not, Schumer and Pelosi should give him the money he wants. If it works, fine, money well spent. If it doesn't, it's not like they haven't wasted 5 billion before.


I'm not sure "just give him what he wants" is a good principle or a good precedent for ANY President.

I'm not sure 'not a penny for the wall' is a good principle either. Especially just a few years ago, all these idiots voted for $25 billion for a barrier.

Evidence:
https://thefederalist.com/2019/01/02/clinton-schumer-obama-supported-bigger-border-wall-2006-not/


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:54 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
franktangredi wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Whether it works or not, Schumer and Pelosi should give him the money he wants. If it works, fine, money well spent. If it doesn't, it's not like they haven't wasted 5 billion before.


I'm not sure "just give him what he wants" is a good principle or a good precedent for ANY President.

I'm not sure 'not a penny for the wall' is a good principle either. Especially just a few years ago, all these idiots voted for $25 billion for a barrier.

Evidence:
https://thefederalist.com/2019/01/02/clinton-schumer-obama-supported-bigger-border-wall-2006-not/


The border protections that some of the Democrats supported were based on need and terrain (and were also a compromise based on some much harsher alternative proposed legislation) and not the type of Great Wall of China that Trump envisions. And as anyone who knows about the border will tell you, it's already riddled with tunnels in the San Diego and El Paso areas where they run drugs through there.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... wall-2006/


Trump's wall isn't about security; it's all about his ego, as he demonstrated when he stormed out of the meeting today. If he was concerned about security, he would worry more about the damage he's causing by the shutdown in terms of air traffic safety and also existing border patrols, both of which are being harmed considerably by what's going on.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:25 pm 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
franktangredi wrote:

I'm not sure "just give him what he wants" is a good principle or a good precedent for ANY President.

I'm not sure 'not a penny for the wall' is a good principle either. Especially just a few years ago, all these idiots voted for $25 billion for a barrier.

Evidence:
https://thefederalist.com/2019/01/02/clinton-schumer-obama-supported-bigger-border-wall-2006-not/


The border protections that some of the Democrats supported were based on need and terrain (and were also a compromise based on some much harsher alternative proposed legislation) and not the type of Great Wall of China that Trump envisions. And as anyone who knows about the border will tell you, it's already riddled with tunnels in the San Diego and El Paso areas where they run drugs through there.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... wall-2006/


Trump's wall isn't about security; it's all about his ego, as he demonstrated when he stormed out of the meeting today. If he was concerned about security, he would worry more about the damage he's causing by the shutdown in terms of air traffic safety and also existing border patrols, both of which are being harmed considerably by what's going on.
Let's not forget all the food inspections that are no longer happening due to the shutdown. If there's an outbreak of food-borne illness soon, it'll be squarely on Donny's shoulders. --Bob

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:42 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
I'm not sure 'not a penny for the wall' is a good principle either. Especially just a few years ago, all these idiots voted for $25 billion for a barrier.

Evidence:
https://thefederalist.com/2019/01/02/clinton-schumer-obama-supported-bigger-border-wall-2006-not/


The border protections that some of the Democrats supported were based on need and terrain (and were also a compromise based on some much harsher alternative proposed legislation) and not the type of Great Wall of China that Trump envisions. And as anyone who knows about the border will tell you, it's already riddled with tunnels in the San Diego and El Paso areas where they run drugs through there.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... wall-2006/


Trump's wall isn't about security; it's all about his ego, as he demonstrated when he stormed out of the meeting today. If he was concerned about security, he would worry more about the damage he's causing by the shutdown in terms of air traffic safety and also existing border patrols, both of which are being harmed considerably by what's going on.
Let's not forget all the food inspections that are no longer happening due to the shutdown. If there's an outbreak of food-borne illness soon, it'll be squarely on Donny's shoulders. --Bob

The USDA inspectors are still working, they just aren't getting paid.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:00 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
If there's an outbreak of food-borne illness soon, it'll be squarely on Donny's shoulders. --Bob


No. It will be squarely on the shoulders of those who will not approve what they've previously voted for and/or lobbied for, but won't now for the single reason that it will give Trump a "win".

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:29 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
If there's an outbreak of food-borne illness soon, it'll be squarely on Donny's shoulders. --Bob


No. It will be squarely on the shoulders of those who will not approve what they've previously voted for and/or lobbied for, but won't now for the single reason that it will give Trump a "win".
False. It's the Republican Senate that is refusing even to consider a bill that it unanimously passed less than a month ago, merely because Donny doesn't like it any more. And Democrats have never voted for or lobbied for a wall in the middle of a fucking desert because no one before Donny has ever been stupid enough to ask for one.

Donny is going to lose this fight for exactly the right reason -- the American people don't support him on this issue. The only remaining question is how much damage his fellow Republicans in the Senate will allow him to do before they force him to cave. --Bob

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:59 pm 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
franktangredi wrote:

I'm not sure "just give him what he wants" is a good principle or a good precedent for ANY President.

I'm not sure 'not a penny for the wall' is a good principle either. Especially just a few years ago, all these idiots voted for $25 billion for a barrier.

Evidence:
https://thefederalist.com/2019/01/02/clinton-schumer-obama-supported-bigger-border-wall-2006-not/


The border protections that some of the Democrats supported were based on need and terrain (and were also a compromise based on some much harsher alternative proposed legislation) and not the type of Great Wall of China that Trump envisions. And as anyone who knows about the border will tell you, it's already riddled with tunnels in the San Diego and El Paso areas where they run drugs through there.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... wall-2006/


Trump's wall isn't about security; it's all about his ego, as he demonstrated when he stormed out of the meeting today. If he was concerned about security, he would worry more about the damage he's causing by the shutdown in terms of air traffic safety and also existing border patrols, both of which are being harmed considerably by what's going on.


They rate it 'half true' because the dems voted for a less substantial wall? What? It's ok to them as long as it's not too much of a barrier?
Trump has scaled down what he wants to build, and it's based on what experts and the border security people say will be effective.

It's all about TDS. You have a very severe case of it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:39 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
I'm not sure 'not a penny for the wall' is a good principle either. Especially just a few years ago, all these idiots voted for $25 billion for a barrier.

Evidence:
https://thefederalist.com/2019/01/02/clinton-schumer-obama-supported-bigger-border-wall-2006-not/


The border protections that some of the Democrats supported were based on need and terrain (and were also a compromise based on some much harsher alternative proposed legislation) and not the type of Great Wall of China that Trump envisions. And as anyone who knows about the border will tell you, it's already riddled with tunnels in the San Diego and El Paso areas where they run drugs through there.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... wall-2006/


Trump's wall isn't about security; it's all about his ego, as he demonstrated when he stormed out of the meeting today. If he was concerned about security, he would worry more about the damage he's causing by the shutdown in terms of air traffic safety and also existing border patrols, both of which are being harmed considerably by what's going on.


They rate it 'half true' because the dems voted for a less substantial wall? What? It's ok to them as long as it's not too much of a barrier?
Trump has scaled down what he wants to build, and it's based on what experts and the border security people say will be effective.

It's all about TDS. You have a very severe case of it.

How are just 234 miles of wall going to be effective?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:20 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
I'm not sure 'not a penny for the wall' is a good principle either. Especially just a few years ago, all these idiots voted for $25 billion for a barrier.

Evidence:
https://thefederalist.com/2019/01/02/clinton-schumer-obama-supported-bigger-border-wall-2006-not/


The border protections that some of the Democrats supported were based on need and terrain (and were also a compromise based on some much harsher alternative proposed legislation) and not the type of Great Wall of China that Trump envisions. And as anyone who knows about the border will tell you, it's already riddled with tunnels in the San Diego and El Paso areas where they run drugs through there.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... wall-2006/


Trump's wall isn't about security; it's all about his ego, as he demonstrated when he stormed out of the meeting today. If he was concerned about security, he would worry more about the damage he's causing by the shutdown in terms of air traffic safety and also existing border patrols, both of which are being harmed considerably by what's going on.


They rate it 'half true' because the dems voted for a less substantial wall? What? It's ok to them as long as it's not too much of a barrier?
Trump has scaled down what he wants to build, and it's based on what experts and the border security people say will be effective.

It's all about TDS. You have a very severe case of it.
Bull. No one with any expertise on the subject, or the ability to think independently, thinks it will be effective. Indeed, merely by claiming the wall will be effective, any purported expert would cast serious doubt on his or her expertise.

That's why Donny couldn't get it through when Republicans controlled both Houses of Congress. That's why a clear majority of the American people oppose wasting money on the wall. Because it's a dumb and hideously expensive idea. --Bob

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:49 am 
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Bob78164 wrote:
And Democrats have never voted for or lobbied for a wall in the middle of a fucking desert because no one before Donny has ever been stupid enough to ask for one.
You've mentioned the middle of a fucking desert at least twice now. Why is the desert a bad place to build a border wall, but a great place to build a no-longer-as-promised bullet train from nowhere to nowhere?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:50 am 
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Bob78164 wrote:
... why a clear majority of the American people oppose wasting money on the wall.
Cite?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:21 am 
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Estonut wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
And Democrats have never voted for or lobbied for a wall in the middle of a fucking desert because no one before Donny has ever been stupid enough to ask for one.
You've mentioned the middle of a fucking desert at least twice now. Why is the desert a bad place to build a border wall, but a great place to build a no-longer-as-promised bullet train from nowhere to nowhere?

I see you're running for King of Whataboutistan too.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:43 am 
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Bob Juch wrote:
Estonut wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
And Democrats have never voted for or lobbied for a wall in the middle of a fucking desert because no one before Donny has ever been stupid enough to ask for one.
You've mentioned the middle of a fucking desert at least twice now. Why is the desert a bad place to build a border wall, but a great place to build a no-longer-as-promised bullet train from nowhere to nowhere?
I see you're running for King of Whataboutistan too.
I see you're the King of Moronistan for life. Learn a new word, or at least learn what that one means.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:47 am 
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Estonut wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
... why a clear majority of the American people oppose wasting money on the wall.
Cite?


https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/08/poli ... index.html

Harry Enten does the political polling analysis for fivethirtyeight.com.

Quote:
But Trump is facing an uphill climb: polls show a majority of Americans blame him and Republicans for the shutdowns, and the majority have also consistently been opposed to his idea of a border wall with Mexico.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:08 am 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
Estonut wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
... why a clear majority of the American people oppose wasting money on the wall.
Cite?


https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/08/poli ... index.html

Harry Enten does the political polling analysis for fivethirtyeight.com.

Quote:
But Trump is facing an uphill climb: polls show a majority of Americans blame him and Republicans for the shutdowns, and the majority have also consistently been opposed to his idea of a border wall with Mexico.


https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/350217-americans-support-a-border-wall-more-than-the-media-wants-to-believe


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:27 am 
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Estonut wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
And Democrats have never voted for or lobbied for a wall in the middle of a fucking desert because no one before Donny has ever been stupid enough to ask for one.
You've mentioned the middle of a fucking desert at least twice now. Why is the desert a bad place to build a border wall, but a great place to build a no-longer-as-promised bullet train from nowhere to nowhere?
I would have thought that it's obvious why it's stupid to build a wall in the middle of the desert. It's because people have plenty of time and privacy to do this.

What's that you say? Human and electronic detection would intervene? Then why do we need a wall there at all? It's not like border-crossers could blend into the crowd there. --Bob

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:35 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
Estonut wrote:
Cite?


https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/08/poli ... index.html

Harry Enten does the political polling analysis for fivethirtyeight.com.

Quote:
But Trump is facing an uphill climb: polls show a majority of Americans blame him and Republicans for the shutdowns, and the majority have also consistently been opposed to his idea of a border wall with Mexico.


https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/350217-americans-support-a-border-wall-more-than-the-media-wants-to-believe


Flock, your "source" is an article that's over a year old that takes issue with the sampling of one poll. The results of the recent election might lead you to question the reasons for that writer's skepticism. And Enten has been reviewing the trend of more recent polls on the subject.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:30 am 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:


Flock, your "source" is an article that's over a year old that takes issue with the sampling of one poll. The results of the recent election might lead you to question the reasons for that writer's skepticism. And Enten has been reviewing the trend of more recent polls on the subject.

aSSShole, your "source" is bullshit, too. OK? The fact is: it's not a popularity poll issue. It's what the people of the border patrol say is necessary to control people coming into this country illegally. No amount of political grandstanding by Schumer and Pelosi will change that fact.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:00 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
OK? The fact is: it's not a popularity poll issue. It's what the people of the border patrol say is necessary to control people coming into this country illegally.


Perhaps you forgot that we live in democracy (or at least a democratic republic), not a third world military dictatorship. The border patrol does not make our policy. Our elected representatives do and right now Schumer and Pelosi are listening to the will of the people. Further, there is no consensus of opinion regarding the best method of border security, and, even if there was, it's up to Congress to prioritize what we spend money on. No amount of political grandstanding by you and Trump will change those facts.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:14 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:


Flock, your "source" is an article that's over a year old that takes issue with the sampling of one poll. The results of the recent election might lead you to question the reasons for that writer's skepticism. And Enten has been reviewing the trend of more recent polls on the subject.

aSSShole, your "source" is bullshit, too. OK? The fact is: it's not a popularity poll issue. It's what the people of the border patrol say is necessary to control people coming into this country illegally. No amount of political grandstanding by Schumer and Pelosi will change that fact.

Here are some that don't: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/border-pat ... rder-wall/

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