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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:12 pm 
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... 17535b0a4d

>>>Latin America is home to just 8 percent of the world's population, but 33 percent of its homicides. In fact, just four countries in the region — Brazil, Colombia, Mexico and Venezuela — account for a quarter of all the murders on Earth. Of the 20 countries in the world with the highest murder rates, 17 are Latin American, as are 43 of the top 50 cities.<<<

Can we at least acknowledge that Latin America is an extremely violent place and that we should be very vigilant on who we let in to the US?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:28 pm 
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Spock wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/04/25/latin-america-is-the-worlds-most-violent-region-a-new-report-investigates-why/?utm_term=.1217535b0a4d

>>>Latin America is home to just 8 percent of the world's population, but 33 percent of its homicides. In fact, just four countries in the region — Brazil, Colombia, Mexico and Venezuela — account for a quarter of all the murders on Earth. Of the 20 countries in the world with the highest murder rates, 17 are Latin American, as are 43 of the top 50 cities.<<<

Can we at least acknowledge that Latin America is an extremely violent place and that we should be very vigilant on who we let in to the US?
Sure. I wonder which of these people are the murderers who shouldn't be allowed in the country.

Image

It seems to me that the murderers are the ones who would want to stay in Latin America, where (by this report) they're much more likely to get away with it. The people we're getting are those who are fleeing the violence. But I have no problem with keeping people out who have committed violent crimes. --Bob

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:11 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
I wonder which of these people are the murderers who shouldn't be allowed in the country.
Nice! You found a picture with all 10 caravan kids.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:35 am 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Spock wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/04/25/latin-america-is-the-worlds-most-violent-region-a-new-report-investigates-why/?utm_term=.1217535b0a4d

>>>Latin America is home to just 8 percent of the world's population, but 33 percent of its homicides. In fact, just four countries in the region — Brazil, Colombia, Mexico and Venezuela — account for a quarter of all the murders on Earth. Of the 20 countries in the world with the highest murder rates, 17 are Latin American, as are 43 of the top 50 cities.<<<

Can we at least acknowledge that Latin America is an extremely violent place and that we should be very vigilant on who we let in to the US?
Sure. I wonder which of these people are the murderers who shouldn't be allowed in the country.

Image

It seems to me that the murderers are the ones who would want to stay in Latin America, where (by this report) they're much more likely to get away with it. The people we're getting are those who are fleeing the violence. But I have no problem with keeping people out who have committed violent crimes. --Bob


Odd that your "The Bad Guys Just Stay Away" immigration reform plan didn't work with this guy.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/illegal-immi ... icials-say

Or this guy

https://www.foxnews.com/us/illegal-immi ... aces-judge

Or this guy.

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/22/64082445 ... iowa-woman

ad infinitum


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:51 am 
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Spock wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Spock wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/04/25/latin-america-is-the-worlds-most-violent-region-a-new-report-investigates-why/?utm_term=.1217535b0a4d

>>>Latin America is home to just 8 percent of the world's population, but 33 percent of its homicides. In fact, just four countries in the region — Brazil, Colombia, Mexico and Venezuela — account for a quarter of all the murders on Earth. Of the 20 countries in the world with the highest murder rates, 17 are Latin American, as are 43 of the top 50 cities.<<<

Can we at least acknowledge that Latin America is an extremely violent place and that we should be very vigilant on who we let in to the US?
Sure. I wonder which of these people are the murderers who shouldn't be allowed in the country.

Image

It seems to me that the murderers are the ones who would want to stay in Latin America, where (by this report) they're much more likely to get away with it. The people we're getting are those who are fleeing the violence. But I have no problem with keeping people out who have committed violent crimes. --Bob


Odd that your "The Bad Guys Just Stay Away" immigration reform plan didn't work with this guy.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/illegal-immi ... icials-say

Or this guy

https://www.foxnews.com/us/illegal-immi ... aces-judge

Or this guy.

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/22/64082445 ... iowa-woman

ad infinitum


Oh, and regarding the picture of the caravan kids.

Since you view them as slaves to pick fruit, how soon are you going to put them to work in the orchards?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:12 am 
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Spock wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Spock wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/04/25/latin-america-is-the-worlds-most-violent-region-a-new-report-investigates-why/?utm_term=.1217535b0a4d

>>>Latin America is home to just 8 percent of the world's population, but 33 percent of its homicides. In fact, just four countries in the region — Brazil, Colombia, Mexico and Venezuela — account for a quarter of all the murders on Earth. Of the 20 countries in the world with the highest murder rates, 17 are Latin American, as are 43 of the top 50 cities.<<<

Can we at least acknowledge that Latin America is an extremely violent place and that we should be very vigilant on who we let in to the US?
Sure. I wonder which of these people are the murderers who shouldn't be allowed in the country.

Image

It seems to me that the murderers are the ones who would want to stay in Latin America, where (by this report) they're much more likely to get away with it. The people we're getting are those who are fleeing the violence. But I have no problem with keeping people out who have committed violent crimes. --Bob


Odd that your "The Bad Guys Just Stay Away" immigration reform plan didn't work with this guy.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/illegal-immi ... icials-say

Or this guy

https://www.foxnews.com/us/illegal-immi ... aces-judge

Or this guy.

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/22/64082445 ... iowa-woman

ad infinitum
Not ad infinitum. Not even close. Immigrants, of all kinds, are as a rule more law-abiding than citizens after they reach the country. The difference in crime statistics is statistically significant. You're buying into efforts to "Willie Horton" the entire immigrant community. --Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:13 am 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Spock wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Sure. I wonder which of these people are the murderers who shouldn't be allowed in the country.

Image

It seems to me that the murderers are the ones who would want to stay in Latin America, where (by this report) they're much more likely to get away with it. The people we're getting are those who are fleeing the violence. But I have no problem with keeping people out who have committed violent crimes. --Bob


Odd that your "The Bad Guys Just Stay Away" immigration reform plan didn't work with this guy.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/illegal-immi ... icials-say

Or this guy

https://www.foxnews.com/us/illegal-immi ... aces-judge

Or this guy.

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/22/64082445 ... iowa-woman

ad infinitum
Not ad infinitum. Not even close. Immigrants, of all kinds, are as a rule more law-abiding than citizens after they reach the country. The difference in crime statistics is statistically significant. You're buying into efforts to "Willie Horton" the entire immigrant community. --Bob


Accepting your premise for the sake of argument. You are just like SSS in that you have a problem with granularity. In all likelihood, software engineers from India have a much lower crime rate than native-born citizens.

Does that lower crime rate follow through with the boys from the foothills of the Sierra Madres or the barrios of Bogota? I don't know, but I suspect they have a much higher crime rate than Indian software engineers.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:31 am 
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Spock wrote:
Can we at least acknowledge that Latin America is an extremely violent place and that we should be very vigilant on who we let in to the US?


Did you even read the article? A lot of the violence is gang related with the victims being young men; i.e., gang members shooting other gang members. And the article cites a lack of an effective police force in high crime areas and a whole lot of guns. And the violence is localized in areas that have seen very rapid urbanization.

So, this is not a matter of "hot Latin blood" leading to random violence, as you seem to be implying (and you'll note that many of the refugees trying to enter this country are fleeing from some of these areas precisely because of the near lawlessness in their home towns).

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:37 am 
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While we're at it, how about this guy. Let's have our police start cracking down on creepy looking midwestern white men who might be child molesters and killers.

Image

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:55 am 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
While we're at it, how about this guy. Let's have our police start cracking down on creepy looking midwestern white men who might be child molesters and killers.

Image


OMG, a white man killed somebody. That means we we can't have any standards on who we let in here.

Let's granularize the US a little bit.

I think I am on pretty solid ground that native-born citizens in the Trump counties have a lower crime rate than immigrants,as a whole, in the country.

Things get pretty funky when you look at the crime rates of the native born in the Hillary counties. Obviously, the opposite would be true.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:08 pm 
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Spock wrote:

I think I am on pretty solid ground that native-born citizens in the Trump counties have a lower crime rate than immigrants,as a whole, in the country.


Well, here's a study of crime rates in Texas, which is about as Trump country as you can get.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... 74b157bf72

And my anecdote was for the purpose of showing just how inane your anecdotes were. I guess you missed that bit of subtlety.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:29 pm 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
Spock wrote:

I think I am on pretty solid ground that native-born citizens in the Trump counties have a lower crime rate than immigrants,as a whole, in the country.


Well, here's a study of crime rates in Texas, which is about as Trump country as you can get.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... 74b157bf72

And my anecdote was for the purpose of showing just how inane your anecdotes were. I guess you missed that bit of subtlety.


Once again, you have a problem with granularity. Crime rates in Texas, as a whole, tell us nothing. It is the size of many countries.

You are considering Texas as a whole. Counties (and even smaller entities) would tell us a lot more. What is the crime rate in the heavy Trump areas in the panhandle VS the heavy Hillary areas in Harris and Dallas Counties and the lower Rio Grande?

Even throwing in Austin (Travis County).Let's go all the way down to precincts level for fun. To better capture the differences within counties such as Harris and Dallas.

The Trump precincts in Texas would have a lower crime rate among the native-born citizens, compared to immigrants, as a whole in the country: and the Hillary precincts would have a higher rate, compared to immigrants, as a whole, in the country


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:32 pm 
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Spock wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
Spock wrote:

I think I am on pretty solid ground that native-born citizens in the Trump counties have a lower crime rate than immigrants,as a whole, in the country.


Well, here's a study of crime rates in Texas, which is about as Trump country as you can get.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... 74b157bf72

And my anecdote was for the purpose of showing just how inane your anecdotes were. I guess you missed that bit of subtlety.


Once again, you have a problem with granularity. Crime rates in Texas, as a whole, tell us nothing. It is the size of many countries.

You are considering Texas as a whole. Counties (and even smaller entities) would tell us a lot more. What is the crime rate in the heavy Trump areas in the panhandle VS the heavy Hillary areas in Harris and Dallas Counties and the lower Rio Grande?

Even throwing in Austin (Travis County).Let's go all the way down to precincts level for fun. To better capture the differences within counties such as Harris and Dallas.

The Trump precincts in Texas would have a lower crime rate among the native-born citizens, compared to immigrants, as a whole in the country: and the Hillary precincts would have a higher rate, compared to immigrants, as a whole, in the country
As far as I can tell, you have no evidence at all for that claim except your own preconception that immigrants are likelier to be lawless. Which is kind of the definition of prejudice. --Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:03 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Spock wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:

Well, here's a study of crime rates in Texas, which is about as Trump country as you can get.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... 74b157bf72

And my anecdote was for the purpose of showing just how inane your anecdotes were. I guess you missed that bit of subtlety.


Once again, you have a problem with granularity. Crime rates in Texas, as a whole, tell us nothing. It is the size of many countries.

You are considering Texas as a whole. Counties (and even smaller entities) would tell us a lot more. What is the crime rate in the heavy Trump areas in the panhandle VS the heavy Hillary areas in Harris and Dallas Counties and the lower Rio Grande?

Even throwing in Austin (Travis County).Let's go all the way down to precincts level for fun. To better capture the differences within counties such as Harris and Dallas.

The Trump precincts in Texas would have a lower crime rate among the native-born citizens, compared to immigrants, as a whole in the country: and the Hillary precincts would have a higher rate, compared to immigrants, as a whole, in the country
As far as I can tell, you have no evidence at all for that claim except your own preconception that immigrants are likelier to be lawless. Which is kind of the definition of prejudice. --Bob


I will step step away from the Trump/Hillary split for now.

I guess I could pretend that the murder/crime rates among the native born citizens in Vermont, North Dakota and the Texas Panhandle are higher than they are among illegal immigrants from Latin America.

I could also pretend that Indian software engineers should be lumped in with people from the most violent cultures in the world and use that data to mask immigrant crimes.

But I would not make life decisions based on those cotton candy and unicorn suppositions.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:11 pm 
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Spock wrote:
But I would not make life decisions based on those cotton candy and unicorn suppositions.


No, you just feel better making them based on lifelong prejudices about dark skinned people. You have absolutely nothing to base your opinions on other than gut feelings.

And I don't think there are a lot of Indian software engineers getting on overcrowded boats trying to sneak into the US. The studies that compare crime results differentiate between lawful and undocumented immigrants.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:29 pm 
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Our little corner of Latin America isn’t much better.

Top FBI official says there's a "crisis of violence" in Puerto Rico

The violence stems from gangs, not the form of government or any ethnic tendency.


Last edited by jarnon on Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:14 pm 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
Spock wrote:
But I would not make life decisions based on those cotton candy and unicorn suppositions.


No, you just feel better making them based on lifelong prejudices about dark skinned people. You have absolutely nothing to base your opinions on other than gut feelings.

And I don't think there are a lot of Indian software engineers getting on overcrowded boats trying to sneak into the US. The studies that compare crime results differentiate between lawful and undocumented immigrants.

All the illegal Indian software engineers flew here then have overstayed their visas.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:49 pm 
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I had never thought of it this way before, but the safest places in the LA area must be those with the highest level of immigrants from Latin Ameroc


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:14 pm 
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Spock wrote:
I had never thought of it this way before, but the safest places in the LA area must be those with the highest level of immigrants from Latin Ameroc
As with most places, the safest areas of Los Angeles are those with the most money and therefore the quickest police response times. --Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:55 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Spock wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/04/25/latin-america-is-the-worlds-most-violent-region-a-new-report-investigates-why/?utm_term=.1217535b0a4d

>>>Latin America is home to just 8 percent of the world's population, but 33 percent of its homicides. In fact, just four countries in the region — Brazil, Colombia, Mexico and Venezuela — account for a quarter of all the murders on Earth. Of the 20 countries in the world with the highest murder rates, 17 are Latin American, as are 43 of the top 50 cities.<<<

Can we at least acknowledge that Latin America is an extremely violent place and that we should be very vigilant on who we let in to the US?
Sure. I wonder which of these people are the murderers who shouldn't be allowed in the country.

Image

It seems to me that the murderers are the ones who would want to stay in Latin America, where (by this report) they're much more likely to get away with it. The people we're getting are those who are fleeing the violence. But I have no problem with keeping people out who have committed violent crimes. --Bob


Oh, you are sooooo compassionate. You are suitably outraged by the separation of innocent families coming here (illegally) fleeing bad conditions in their country.

Where is your compassion for the families who are PERMANENTLY separated from their loved ones by people who SHOULD NOT EVEN BE IN THIS COUNTRY?

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/crime-illegal-immigration/

Quote:
- Taking the data only from these five states, (AZ,CA,NY,TX,FL) and assuming that each person incarcerated for a homicide-related offense is responsible for only one death,
yields 5,400 people killed by illegal aliens.


Disagree with the number. Point out that trump said there was 62,000. The fact is: if congress would do their fricking job, THERE SHOULD NOT EVEN BE 1 of them.

Here is a reply that could be written by bob-tel, aSSShole or BJ.

https://www.modbee.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editor/article214770695.html

Yes, you guys are uber-compassionate, aren't you?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:58 pm 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
Spock wrote:
But I would not make life decisions based on those cotton candy and unicorn suppositions.


No, you just feel better making them based on lifelong prejudices about dark skinned people. You have absolutely nothing to base your opinions on other than gut feelings.

And I don't think there are a lot of Indian software engineers getting on overcrowded boats trying to sneak into the US. The studies that compare crime results differentiate between lawful and undocumented immigrants.


So aSSShole, you're now branching out to calling Spock a racist. You are despicable. You have absolutely nothing to base your opinions on other than your own hatefulness.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:13 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
Spock wrote:
But I would not make life decisions based on those cotton candy and unicorn suppositions.


No, you just feel better making them based on lifelong prejudices about dark skinned people. You have absolutely nothing to base your opinions on other than gut feelings.

And I don't think there are a lot of Indian software engineers getting on overcrowded boats trying to sneak into the US. The studies that compare crime results differentiate between lawful and undocumented immigrants.


So aSSShole, you're now branching out to calling Spock a racist. You are despicable. You have absolutely nothing to base your opinions on other than your own hatefulness.


And 1, and 2 and 3-Spock's a racist-Oh, you rhetorical devil you.

I thought Indian software engineers were brown, or even black, but I guess that is just me.

The married Mexican couple that works in my barns are both veterinarians. I am well capable of separating them from the MS-13 boys, but apparently you are not.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:31 pm 
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SSS>>>No, you just feel better making them based on lifelong prejudices about dark skinned people<<<

Says the man who has never left a cruise ship itinerary in his life.

Even not including Zimbabwe, I can guarantee you that I have had more genuine contact with the "dark-skinned people" of Latin America and the Caribbean than you have.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:37 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Immigrants, of all kinds, are as a rule more law-abiding than citizens after they reach the country.
You say, "after they reach the country." Not true. They enter against the law and REMAIN against the law, often usurping resources which could be used for our own citizens.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:40 pm 
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Estonut wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Immigrants, of all kinds, are as a rule more law-abiding than citizens after they reach the country.
You say, "after they reach the country." Not true. They enter against the law and REMAIN against the law, often usurping resources which could be used for our own citizens.

I hope you realize that the members of the "caravan" are entering the country legally.

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