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 Post subject: I've gone green
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:05 pm 
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Not intentionally. And I'm unable to explain it.

I've been tracking my electricity usage for 6 1/2 years. I take each month's bill and convert the usage to an average kwh per day. Since August my average daily usage for the month has set a record low. And it has been decreasing. Some data:

Aug was 93% of the previous 6 year average for Aug.
Sep was 82%
Oct was 71%
Nov was 59%
Dec was 51%
and Jan was 56%

Last year Dec was significantly low because we did not decorate (no lights and we usually DO LIGHTS), and we spent Christmas through New Years out of town. This year we decorated. We've gone all LED which explains the decrease over prior years, except for last year when we had no lights up.

I change "providers" July which appears to be a trigger event, but our electricity is generated, transmitted, metered, and read by the same company who owns the meter and reads it (remotely as it is an online smart meter).

I've rolled the prior years' readings to the current month's and it agrees with the reading on the meter.

My only explanation is August must have been cooler, I mean less hot than normal, and then starting in September we have been empty nesters. Our entire upstairs only gets used on the occasional weekend when a kid comes home. But that doesn't explain Dec and Jan (kids home 1/2 the month).

Our heat is all gas (HVAC, Hot water, dryer) so I would expect the late fall and winter months to be fairly consistent year over year.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gone green
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:43 pm 
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Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
I'm extremely green. All of my electric comes from wind power from Arcadia Power.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gone green
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:51 pm 
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Bob Juch wrote:
I'm extremely green. All of my electric comes from wind power from Arcadia Power.


You really think that?

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 Post subject: Re: I've gone green
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:56 pm 
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Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
BackInTex wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
I'm extremely green. All of my electric comes from wind power from Arcadia Power.


You really think that?

What? That's it's all from wind? Yes, of course. They'd be in big trouble if it wasn't true.

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I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)

Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.


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 Post subject: Re: I've gone green
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:05 pm 
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Location: In Texas of course!
Bob Juch wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
I'm extremely green. All of my electric comes from wind power from Arcadia Power.


You really think that?

What? That's it's all from wind? Yes, of course. They'd be in big trouble if it wasn't true.


Unless you are on a dedicated grid, which I doubt you are, where that electricity came from is at best a mix (unless you are sitting in the wind farm).

I could select 100% renewable energy as well, but the nearest wind farms are hundreds of miles away. All the electricity coming into my house is generated locally via gas turbine. Someone else would be consuming the wind energy I paid for.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gone green
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:41 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
BackInTex wrote:

You really think that?

What? That's it's all from wind? Yes, of course. They'd be in big trouble if it wasn't true.


Unless you are on a dedicated grid, which I doubt you are, where that electricity came from is at best a mix (unless you are sitting in the wind farm).

I could select 100% renewable energy as well, but the nearest wind farms are hundreds of miles away. All the electricity coming into my house is generated locally via gas turbine. Someone else would be consuming the wind energy I paid for.

Oh, okay, you're splitting hairs. Yes, what I get is a mix, but 100% of what I use is bought from a wind farm.

_________________
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)

Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.


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 Post subject: Re: I've gone green
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:36 pm 
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Bob Juch wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
What? That's it's all from wind? Yes, of course. They'd be in big trouble if it wasn't true.


Unless you are on a dedicated grid, which I doubt you are, where that electricity came from is at best a mix (unless you are sitting in the wind farm).

I could select 100% renewable energy as well, but the nearest wind farms are hundreds of miles away. All the electricity coming into my house is generated locally via gas turbine. Someone else would be consuming the wind energy I paid for.

Oh, okay, you're splitting hairs. Yes, what I get is a mix, but 100% of what I use is bought from a wind farm.


But are wind farms green?


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 Post subject: Re: I've gone green
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:59 pm 
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Spock wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
BackInTex wrote:

Unless you are on a dedicated grid, which I doubt you are, where that electricity came from is at best a mix (unless you are sitting in the wind farm).

I could select 100% renewable energy as well, but the nearest wind farms are hundreds of miles away. All the electricity coming into my house is generated locally via gas turbine. Someone else would be consuming the wind energy I paid for.

Oh, okay, you're splitting hairs. Yes, what I get is a mix, but 100% of what I use is bought from a wind farm.


But are wind farms green?


https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2010 ... wer-farms/

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 Post subject: Re: I've gone green
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:34 pm 
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Beebs52 wrote:
Spock wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
Oh, okay, you're splitting hairs. Yes, what I get is a mix, but 100% of what I use is bought from a wind farm.


But are wind farms green?


https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2010 ... wer-farms/

Wind turbines are a lot more efficient today than they were in 2010.

_________________
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)

Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.


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 Post subject: Re: I've gone green
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:38 am 
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Location: In Texas of course!
Bob Juch wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Spock wrote:

But are wind farms green?


https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2010 ... wer-farms/

Wind turbines are a lot more efficient today than they were in 2010.


Some interesting breakfast research revealed:

Cost per Megawatt to generate (2017):
Nuclear: $24.38
Fossil Steam: $35.41
Hydro: $10.29
Nat Gas: $31.76

I'm disappointed the chart does not provide data for wind. My guess is because the technology has changed so much over the past 10 years that an average of current production costs would skew too high and no properly "promote" the current costs using new equipment. That's reasonable, but they could put an asterisk by it and then extrapolate (if all turbines were new).

I calculated the cost per Mw for a newly installed GE 1.5 Mw to be about $44.00 not including lifetime maintenance cost. I found no data there but assuming 20% over the life would add another $9.00 so a total of $53.00.
My detail:
Installed cost per Mw: $1.61 million ($2.415 per turbine)
Estimated life: 12 years (per GEs product brochure)
Utilization Factor: 35% (reports say 25% to 45% currently. This will of course depend on lifetime actual wind speeds)
Maintenance: 20% of installed cost (my guess)
There are lots of places to find different numbers but these were what I found.

I've seen sources saying the current cost of wind is around $30.00 but the references gave no detail on how they get that. They may not have factored in the utilization.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gone green
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:22 pm 
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Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
BackInTex wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:

Wind turbines are a lot more efficient today than they were in 2010.


Some interesting breakfast research revealed:

Cost per Megawatt to generate (2017):
Nuclear: $24.38
Fossil Steam: $35.41
Hydro: $10.29
Nat Gas: $31.76

I'm disappointed the chart does not provide data for wind. My guess is because the technology has changed so much over the past 10 years that an average of current production costs would skew too high and no properly "promote" the current costs using new equipment. That's reasonable, but they could put an asterisk by it and then extrapolate (if all turbines were new).

I calculated the cost per Mw for a newly installed GE 1.5 Mw to be about $44.00 not including lifetime maintenance cost. I found no data there but assuming 20% over the life would add another $9.00 so a total of $53.00.
My detail:
Installed cost per Mw: $1.61 million ($2.415 per turbine)
Estimated life: 12 years (per GEs product brochure)
Utilization Factor: 35% (reports say 25% to 45% currently. This will of course depend on lifetime actual wind speeds)
Maintenance: 20% of installed cost (my guess)
There are lots of places to find different numbers but these were what I found.

I've seen sources saying the current cost of wind is around $30.00 but the references gave no detail on how they get that. They may not have factored in the utilization.

Thanks.

_________________
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)

Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.


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