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 Post subject: A unique view of the law
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:25 am 
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Why do you care? Seriously. People break the law all the time. Even federal law. I don't see you up in arms about people who are speeding. I don't see you up in arms about people who use marijuana, which remains a Schedule 1 drug under federal law.

So what if a lot of immigrants are crossing the border? (They're not, by the way. They're mostly coming across legally, usually by air, and overstaying their visas.) How are they making your life worse?

You're arguing this as though the mere fact that their presence is unauthorized is the end of the discussion. It's not. It's the beginning. I'm fine with them being here. They make my life better, some personally and some more generally. I wish more would arrive so that I could be confident that there will be enough workers to pay my social security benefits when it comes time for me to collect them. How does their presence hurt you? --Bob


I can only assume you are serious about this and not being sarcastic. There is so much wrong with this statement it deserves it's own thread. But this is what you really think? I think you should be disbarred.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:05 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
I think you should be disbarred.


If they disbarred every lawyer who disagreed with you and Trump, all they'd have left are AG Barr and five members of the Supreme Court.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:08 am 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
I think you should be disbarred.


If they disbarred every lawyer who disagreed with you and Trump, all they'd have left are AG Barr and five members of the Supreme Court.


There should be another thread just for you, but I have no interest in getting involved with it. One note polly.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:42 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
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Why do you care? Seriously. People break the law all the time. Even federal law. I don't see you up in arms about people who are speeding. I don't see you up in arms about people who use marijuana, which remains a Schedule 1 drug under federal law.

So what if a lot of immigrants are crossing the border? (They're not, by the way. They're mostly coming across legally, usually by air, and overstaying their visas.) How are they making your life worse?

You're arguing this as though the mere fact that their presence is unauthorized is the end of the discussion. It's not. It's the beginning. I'm fine with them being here. They make my life better, some personally and some more generally. I wish more would arrive so that I could be confident that there will be enough workers to pay my social security benefits when it comes time for me to collect them. How does their presence hurt you? --Bob


I can only assume you are serious about this and not being sarcastic. There is so much wrong with this statement it deserves it's own thread. But this is what you really think? I think you should be disbarred.



What do you expect, really, from someone who claims, as an attorney, that he didn't "..swear to uphold any laws at all"?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:06 am 
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tlynn78 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Quote:
Why do you care? Seriously. People break the law all the time. Even federal law. I don't see you up in arms about people who are speeding. I don't see you up in arms about people who use marijuana, which remains a Schedule 1 drug under federal law.

So what if a lot of immigrants are crossing the border? (They're not, by the way. They're mostly coming across legally, usually by air, and overstaying their visas.) How are they making your life worse?

You're arguing this as though the mere fact that their presence is unauthorized is the end of the discussion. It's not. It's the beginning. I'm fine with them being here. They make my life better, some personally and some more generally. I wish more would arrive so that I could be confident that there will be enough workers to pay my social security benefits when it comes time for me to collect them. How does their presence hurt you? --Bob


I can only assume you are serious about this and not being sarcastic. There is so much wrong with this statement it deserves it's own thread. But this is what you really think? I think you should be disbarred.


What do you expect, really, from someone who claims, as an attorney, that he didn't "..swear to uphold any laws at all"?
So Rosa Parks should have complied with that law requiring her to sit at the back of the bus? So Montana federal authorities should go around arresting people who use medical marijuana?

I'll notice that no one has troubled themselves to actually try to answer my question. --Bob

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:20 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:

I can only assume you are serious about this and not being sarcastic. There is so much wrong with this statement it deserves it's own thread. But this is what you really think? I think you should be disbarred.


What do you expect, really, from someone who claims, as an attorney, that he didn't "..swear to uphold any laws at all"?
So Rosa Parks should have complied with that law requiring her to sit at the back of the bus? So Montana federal authorities should go around arresting people who use medical marijuana?

I'll notice that no one has troubled themselves to actually try to answer my question. --Bob

Your question is what? "How does their presence hurt you?"

I could give you a multitude of answers, but I'll give you back a few questions: How does someone stealing a car in Oshkosh, Wisconsin hurt you? How does someone parking illegally in Pasco, TX hurt you? How does someone else physically assaulting someone in Neptune, NJ hurt you?

You are supposedly a lawyer. Answer the questions, sir, and then answer the question I posed to you before you tried to change the subject. Why isn't congress doing anything to fix this problem?
Then we'll get into all the problems with your impassioned statement above.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:34 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
I could give you a multitude of answers, but I'll give you back a few questions: How does someone stealing a car in Oshkosh, Wisconsin hurt you? How does someone parking illegally in Pasco, TX hurt you? How does someone else physically assaulting someone in Neptune, NJ hurt you?


Assuming, for the sake of argument, that the presence of some illegal immigrants in the country hurts us for some reasons that Flock is never able to articulate, the question then becomes how should we allocate the resources we have to fight crime. And you need to measure that, not by how much the presence of some dark-skinned foreigners offends people like Flock, but the risk they represent to our person and property. And on that note, illegal immigrants rank closer to people parking illegally than they do to, say, domestic terrorists killing a dozen or so people in a synagogue. But rather than take some steps to combat domestic terrorism (which is to a large extent caused by Trump's support demographic), you would gave us spend more money to build a fence to keep out these hapless refugees. Since by all statistics, illegal immigrants commit fewer violent and property crimes than other demographic groups, targeting them solely because of their status is much less effective than increasing efforts targeted at violent criminals and thieves.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:42 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:

What do you expect, really, from someone who claims, as an attorney, that he didn't "..swear to uphold any laws at all"?
So Rosa Parks should have complied with that law requiring her to sit at the back of the bus? So Montana federal authorities should go around arresting people who use medical marijuana?

I'll notice that no one has troubled themselves to actually try to answer my question. --Bob

Your question is what? "How does their presence hurt you?"

I could give you a multitude of answers, but I'll give you back a few questions: How does someone stealing a car in Oshkosh, Wisconsin hurt you? How does someone parking illegally in Pasco, TX hurt you? How does someone else physically assaulting someone in Neptune, NJ hurt you?

You are supposedly a lawyer. Answer the questions, sir, and then answer the question I posed to you before you tried to change the subject. Why isn't congress doing anything to fix this problem?
Then we'll get into all the problems with your impassioned statement above.
No. Your premise is that our current immigration rate is a problem because too many people are entering the country. I don't accept your premise. In my view, not enough people are entering the country for me to feel comfortable that we'll have enough workers to pay social security benefits when it becomes time for me to collect the benefits I've earned. There certainly aren't enough people being born here to fill out the workforce.

So defend your premise that the United States has a problem in that too many people are entering the country. Bear in mind when you do so that the rate of violent crimes and crimes against property committed by undocumented workers is substantially lower (per capita) than the rate of those same crimes committed by citizens. --Bob

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:48 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
So Rosa Parks should have complied with that law requiring her to sit at the back of the bus? So Montana federal authorities should go around arresting people who use medical marijuana?

I'll notice that no one has troubled themselves to actually try to answer my question. --Bob

Your question is what? "How does their presence hurt you?"

I could give you a multitude of answers, but I'll give you back a few questions: How does someone stealing a car in Oshkosh, Wisconsin hurt you? How does someone parking illegally in Pasco, TX hurt you? How does someone else physically assaulting someone in Neptune, NJ hurt you?

You are supposedly a lawyer. Answer the questions, sir, and then answer the question I posed to you before you tried to change the subject. Why isn't congress doing anything to fix this problem?
Then we'll get into all the problems with your impassioned statement above.
No. Your premise is that our current immigration rate is a problem because too many people are entering the country. I don't accept your premise. In my view, not enough people are entering the country for me to feel comfortable that we'll have enough workers to pay social security benefits when it becomes time for me to collect the benefits I've earned. There certainly aren't enough people being born here to fill out the workforce.

So defend your premise that the United States has a problem in that too many people are entering the country. Bear in mind when you do so that the rate of violent crimes and crimes against property committed by undocumented workers is substantially lower (per capita) than the rate of those same crimes committed by citizens. --Bob


Selfishness is acting to preserve your own interests. Your self interest isn't necessarily mine. You can't live on SS, so, to protect your future you may want to save and invest.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:46 pm 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
I could give you a multitude of answers, but I'll give you back a few questions: How does someone stealing a car in Oshkosh, Wisconsin hurt you? How does someone parking illegally in Pasco, TX hurt you? How does someone else physically assaulting someone in Neptune, NJ hurt you?


Assuming, for the sake of argument, that the presence of some illegal immigrants in the country hurts us for some reasons that Flock is never able to articulate, the question then becomes how should we allocate the resources we have to fight crime. And you need to measure that, not by how much the presence of some dark-skinned foreigners offends people like Flock, but the risk they represent to our person and property. And on that note, illegal immigrants rank closer to people parking illegally than they do to, say, domestic terrorists killing a dozen or so people in a synagogue. But rather than take some steps to combat domestic terrorism (which is to a large extent caused by Trump's support demographic), you would gave us spend more money to build a fence to keep out these hapless refugees. Since by all statistics, illegal immigrants commit fewer violent and property crimes than other demographic groups, targeting them solely because of their status is much less effective than increasing efforts targeted at violent criminals and thieves.


Shut up with the racist bullshit, you bigot. I read up to the 'dark-skinned' and will not even read the rest. You are pathetic. I have no more use for you. I guess I will emulate bob-tel. When I see real bigotry, I will call it out. This it it, polly. Fuck you, once and for all.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:08 pm 
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Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Your question is what? "How does their presence hurt you?"

I could give you a multitude of answers, but I'll give you back a few questions: How does someone stealing a car in Oshkosh, Wisconsin hurt you? How does someone parking illegally in Pasco, TX hurt you? How does someone else physically assaulting someone in Neptune, NJ hurt you?

You are supposedly a lawyer. Answer the questions, sir, and then answer the question I posed to you before you tried to change the subject. Why isn't congress doing anything to fix this problem?
Then we'll get into all the problems with your impassioned statement above.
No. Your premise is that our current immigration rate is a problem because too many people are entering the country. I don't accept your premise. In my view, not enough people are entering the country for me to feel comfortable that we'll have enough workers to pay social security benefits when it becomes time for me to collect the benefits I've earned. There certainly aren't enough people being born here to fill out the workforce.

So defend your premise that the United States has a problem in that too many people are entering the country. Bear in mind when you do so that the rate of violent crimes and crimes against property committed by undocumented workers is substantially lower (per capita) than the rate of those same crimes committed by citizens. --Bob


Selfishness is acting to preserve your own interests. Your self interest isn't necessarily mine. You can't live on SS, so, to protect your future you may want to save and invest.
But I've articulated a way in which the presence of immigrants who are willing and able to work (i.e., the vast majority of them) benefits me and many millions of people like me. I'm still waiting for someone to articulate a reason why these immigrants are actually a problem for the country, as flock would like me to take for granted. --Bob

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:33 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
No. Your premise is that our current immigration rate is a problem because too many people are entering the country. I don't accept your premise. In my view, not enough people are entering the country for me to feel comfortable that we'll have enough workers to pay social security benefits when it becomes time for me to collect the benefits I've earned. There certainly aren't enough people being born here to fill out the workforce.

So defend your premise that the United States has a problem in that too many people are entering the country. Bear in mind when you do so that the rate of violent crimes and crimes against property committed by undocumented workers is substantially lower (per capita) than the rate of those same crimes committed by citizens. --Bob


Selfishness is acting to preserve your own interests. Your self interest isn't necessarily mine. You can't live on SS, so, to protect your future you may want to save and invest.
But I've articulated a way in which the presence of immigrants who are willing and able to work (i.e., the vast majority of them) benefits me and many millions of people like me. I'm still waiting for someone to articulate a reason why these immigrants are actually a problem for the country, as flock would like me to take for granted. --Bob


Using them as your personal funder is gruesome. Reminiscent of, oh I dunno, slavery?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:12 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
No. Your premise is that our current immigration rate is a problem because too many people are entering the country. I don't accept your premise. In my view, not enough people are entering the country for me to feel comfortable that we'll have enough workers to pay social security benefits when it becomes time for me to collect the benefits I've earned. There certainly aren't enough people being born here to fill out the workforce.

So defend your premise that the United States has a problem in that too many people are entering the country. Bear in mind when you do so that the rate of violent crimes and crimes against property committed by undocumented workers is substantially lower (per capita) than the rate of those same crimes committed by citizens. --Bob


Selfishness is acting to preserve your own interests. Your self interest isn't necessarily mine. You can't live on SS, so, to protect your future you may want to save and invest.
But I've articulated a way in which the presence of immigrants who are willing and able to work (i.e., the vast majority of them) benefits me and many millions of people like me. I'm still waiting for someone to articulate a reason why these immigrants are actually a problem for the country, as flock would like me to take for granted. --Bob

Answer my questions and I'll answer yours.
If it's no problem to have people come into our country and stay here, tell your congresspeople to abolish all immigration laws. Why the hell should we pay for border security when there is none? Why won't they do anything? Why do we have any laws regarding immigration, bob-tel?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:29 pm 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:

Selfishness is acting to preserve your own interests. Your self interest isn't necessarily mine. You can't live on SS, so, to protect your future you may want to save and invest.
But I've articulated a way in which the presence of immigrants who are willing and able to work (i.e., the vast majority of them) benefits me and many millions of people like me. I'm still waiting for someone to articulate a reason why these immigrants are actually a problem for the country, as flock would like me to take for granted. --Bob

Answer my questions and I'll answer yours.
If it's no problem to have people come into our country and stay here, tell your congresspeople to abolish all immigration laws. Why the hell should we pay for border security when there is none? Why won't they do anything? Why do we have any laws regarding immigration, bob-tel?
You still owe me an answer. --Bob

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:32 pm 
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Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:

Selfishness is acting to preserve your own interests. Your self interest isn't necessarily mine. You can't live on SS, so, to protect your future you may want to save and invest.
But I've articulated a way in which the presence of immigrants who are willing and able to work (i.e., the vast majority of them) benefits me and many millions of people like me. I'm still waiting for someone to articulate a reason why these immigrants are actually a problem for the country, as flock would like me to take for granted. --Bob


Using them as your personal funder is gruesome. Reminiscent of, oh I dunno, slavery?
What do you think you're doing right now? The people funding your social security payments (I assume you're drawing social security already) are the people (like me) who are working right now and who are paying social security taxes right now.

And the comparison to slavery is grotesquely wrong. No one is being forced to work by anything other than the usual economic pressures that we all have to live with. --Bob

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:43 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
But I've articulated a way in which the presence of immigrants who are willing and able to work (i.e., the vast majority of them) benefits me and many millions of people like me. I'm still waiting for someone to articulate a reason why these immigrants are actually a problem for the country, as flock would like me to take for granted. --Bob


Using them as your personal funder is gruesome. Reminiscent of, oh I dunno, slavery?
What do you think you're doing right now? The people funding your social security payments (I assume you're drawing social security already) are the people (like me) who are working right now and who are paying social security taxes right now.

And the comparison to slavery is grotesquely wrong. No one is being forced to work by anything other than the usual economic pressures that we all have to live with. --Bob

Of course we all paid into ss for decades. And other taxes and saved. Assuming illegal immigrants to assume the weight of your future livelihood is morally wrong.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:45 pm 
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Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:

Using them as your personal funder is gruesome. Reminiscent of, oh I dunno, slavery?
What do you think you're doing right now? The people funding your social security payments (I assume you're drawing social security already) are the people (like me) who are working right now and who are paying social security taxes right now.

And the comparison to slavery is grotesquely wrong. No one is being forced to work by anything other than the usual economic pressures that we all have to live with. --Bob

Of course we all paid into ss for decades. And other taxes and saved. Assuming illegal immigrants to assume the weight of your future livelihood is morally wrong.
Not at all. I'm happy for them to have a path to collect social security benefits when it's their turn. --Bob

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:52 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
What do you think you're doing right now? The people funding your social security payments (I assume you're drawing social security already) are the people (like me) who are working right now and who are paying social security taxes right now.

And the comparison to slavery is grotesquely wrong. No one is being forced to work by anything other than the usual economic pressures that we all have to live with. --Bob

Of course we all paid into ss for decades. And other taxes and saved. Assuming illegal immigrants to assume the weight of your future livelihood is morally wrong.
Not at all. I'm happy for them to have a path to collect social security benefits when it's their turn. --Bob


And that path is how?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:01 pm 
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Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Of course we all paid into ss for decades. And other taxes and saved. Assuming illegal immigrants to assume the weight of your future livelihood is morally wrong.
Not at all. I'm happy for them to have a path to collect social security benefits when it's their turn. --Bob


And that path is how?
They are already entitled to get Taxpayer ID numbers. Give anyone with a Taxpayer ID number and the requisite quarters of earnings the right to collect social security benefits based on their earnings record. I imagine that will require a statutory change, but I'm not even sure of that.

Or you could just pass a statute making anyone with x quarters of earnings in the Social Security system, and who doesn't get convicted of any serious crimes, a lawful permanent resident. If they've held down a job long enough, we can feel fairly confident they'll contribute to society. I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure non-citizen permanent residents are entitled to collect social security. (If a lawful permanent resident who's worked here for decades decides to leave the country, does he or she forfeit the social security benefits he or she would otherwise have earned because they're no longer a resident? I sure hope not.) --Bob

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:18 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Not at all. I'm happy for them to have a path to collect social security benefits when it's their turn
And that path is how?
They are already entitled to get Taxpayer ID numbers. Give anyone with a Taxpayer ID number and the requisite quarters of earnings the right to collect social security benefits based on their earnings record. I imagine that will require a statutory change, but I'm not even sure of that.

Or you could just pass a statute making anyone with x quarters of earnings in the Social Security system, and who doesn't get convicted of any serious crimes, a lawful permanent resident. If they've held down a job long enough, we can feel fairly confident they'll contribute to society. I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure non-citizen permanent residents are entitled to collect social security. (If a lawful permanent resident who's worked here for decades decides to leave the country, does he or she forfeit the social security benefits he or she would otherwise have earned because they're no longer a resident? I sure hope not.)
That's an awful lot of researching things for yourself that you've failed to bother with.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:46 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Not at all. I'm happy for them to have a path to collect social security benefits when it's their turn. --Bob


And that path is how?
They are already entitled to get Taxpayer ID numbers. Give anyone with a Taxpayer ID number and the requisite quarters of earnings the right to collect social security benefits based on their earnings record. I imagine that will require a statutory change, but I'm not even sure of that.

Or you could just pass a statute making anyone with x quarters of earnings in the Social Security system, and who doesn't get convicted of any serious crimes, a lawful permanent resident. If they've held down a job long enough, we can feel fairly confident they'll contribute to society. I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure non-citizen permanent residents are entitled to collect social security. (If a lawful permanent resident who's worked here for decades decides to leave the country, does he or she forfeit the social security benefits he or she would otherwise have earned because they're no longer a resident? I sure hope not.) --Bob

Interesting. Now you want to pass a statute? What difference does it make? They're not hurting you, so why do you need a law? You're fine with ignoring the ones currently in place and demonizing those who dare to try and enforce them. You don't need no stinkin statutes.

You still haven't even lifted a finger to answer my questions, bob-tel. If the laws aren't to your liking, why doesn't your congress do anything to change them?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:28 pm 
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Beebs52 wrote:
Selfishness is acting to preserve your own interests. Your self interest isn't necessarily mine. You can't live on SS, so, to protect your future you may want to save and invest.


How is your self-interest served by illegals not entering the country?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:35 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:

And that path is how?
They are already entitled to get Taxpayer ID numbers. Give anyone with a Taxpayer ID number and the requisite quarters of earnings the right to collect social security benefits based on their earnings record. I imagine that will require a statutory change, but I'm not even sure of that.

Or you could just pass a statute making anyone with x quarters of earnings in the Social Security system, and who doesn't get convicted of any serious crimes, a lawful permanent resident. If they've held down a job long enough, we can feel fairly confident they'll contribute to society. I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure non-citizen permanent residents are entitled to collect social security. (If a lawful permanent resident who's worked here for decades decides to leave the country, does he or she forfeit the social security benefits he or she would otherwise have earned because they're no longer a resident? I sure hope not.) --Bob

Interesting. Now you want to pass a statute? What difference does it make? They're not hurting you, so why do you need a law? You're fine with ignoring the ones currently in place and demonizing those who dare to try and enforce them. You don't need no stinkin statutes.

You still haven't even lifted a finger to answer my questions, bob-tel. If the laws aren't to your liking, why doesn't your congress do anything to change them?
Because Mitch McConnell, empowered by the majority of the Senate that is elected by a minority of the country, has pledged to act as the "Grim Reaper" against any such legislation that emerges from the House. Fortunately, there's a cure for that. But until then, if representatives of a minority of the country insist on using their political power in this way, then no one should be surprised if the majority who disagree with them are willing to undermine those laws. Particularly when we can see their tragic effects up close and personal.

And don't you dare pretend to be outraged about the concept of undermining duly passed laws. That's what Donny has been doing to the Affordable Care Act virtually since the moment he took office. And it's costing an awful lot of people money that they really shouldn't have to pay. It's also what a lot of the religious right wants to do to state laws that require businesses to serve customers without regard to their sexual identity or orientation. It's what a pretty good fraction of the southern half of the country has been trying to do to women's right to control their own bodies.

I'm aware that you won't answer my question -- what makes you think that immigration is a problem -- because you don't have an answer. You can't justify this treatment on any basis but the bootstrapping argument that their entry is bad because it is illegal, so the people who enter the country despite those laws are necessarily bad simply because their entry disregards the law. In particular, you are not able to explain why most of these people should be kept out of the country when it's quite clear that, unlike when the laws were passed in the first place, our economy needs the workers, and has for quite some time. --Bob

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:52 am 
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Bob: "what makes you think that immigration is a problem ?"

I'll ignore the sheer, willful stupidity that makes Bob drop the "illegal" in front of the word immigration.
Here's some quick Google findings:


"According to GAO, in FY 2009 295,959 SCAAP criminal aliens, of whom approximately 227,600 are illegal aliens, were incarcerated in state jails and prisons. This is a 40 percent and 25 percent increase, respectively, in criminal-alien incarcerations in state jails and prisons since FY 2003."

In California, “about 50 percent of California’s primary convictions related to SCAAP illegal aliens were for drugs, assault, and sex offenses.”

The below is JUST 2019, and ONLY those actually caught and known to be illegals:

2019
April
On April 2, Miguel Martinez was arrested in Louisiana on 100 counts of possession of pornography of children under the age of 13, one count of production of child pornography, and one count of sexual battery of a child under the age of 13. Martinez, an illegal alien, was deported in 2005 and remains a registered sex offender in California, a sanctuary state.

On April 3, 2019, thirteen-year-old Mariana Pérez Borroto was struck and killed by an illegal alien from Argentina while riding her bicycle to school in Kissimmee, Florida. The suspect, Micaela Coronel, had overstayed a work visa and was driving without a license. ICE has placed a detainer on Coronel so she will be deported regardless of whether there is a conviction.

Illegal alien Laura Rosas killed Emmanuel Ramirez by running him over twice with her vehicle outside of the OK Corral nightclub in Fort Worth, Texas, on April 8, 2019. Rosas has been charged with murder and is being held on a $200,000 bond. ICE has also placed a detainer on her.

Juan Francisco, an illegal alien from Guatemala, killed Debbie Burgess in a hit-and-run in Knoxville, Tennessee, on April 8. Francisco’s criminal history includes a 2017 DUI conviction, a 2004 reckless driving charge, and a 2002 theft charge. Despite a 2002 warrant stating his illegal status, Francisco was never deported. As of this writing, Francisco is still being sought by the authorities.

On April 12, 2019, illegal Honduran alien Carlos Zuniga-Aviles kicked his girlfriend’s four-month-old son to death in Memphis, Tennessee. Zuniga-Aviles reportedly killed the infant, Alexander Lizondro-Chacon, because the boy was fathered by another man. The illegal alien had been deported from the U.S. five times (in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2015, and December 2016).
March
Twice deported to his native Honduras, Jorge Rios-Doblado stalked and brutally beat, raped, and drowned a Caroline Cano, who was out jogging in Jersey City’s Lincoln Park on March 24, 2019. Cano was originally from Peru and worked as a nanny.
The ICE office in Newark, New Jersey, stated its intent to take “custody of Rios-Doblado at the conclusion of his criminal proceedings, despite limited cooperation in the state.”

In Kittitas County (Washington state), Sheriff’s Deputy Ryan Thompson was killed in the line of duty by Juan Manuel Flores Del Toro, an illegal alien living in the U.S. illegally after overstaying his H-2A visa in 2014. Del Toro led officers on a car pursuit before eventually pulling over and then opening fire at Deputy Thompson and his partner, Deputy Benito Chavez. The illegal alien subsequently died but not before killing the father of three and injuring his partner.

A native of Guatemala, Domingo Francisco Marcos killed Sonya Jones, a mother of two, in a hit-and-run collision. Jones was a teacher at the Living Word Christian Center Kingdom Academy in Mobile, Alabama. Marcos sought asylum after entering the U.S. illegally and was released in 2017 with the promise to appear for his court date. He was consequently denied asylum and ordered deported, but was not removed from the country.

On March 21, Mexican national Ramon Hector Martine Ontiveros killed Paige Lane Gomer in a shooting. According to police, Ontiveros admitted to shooting Gomer, who left behind a two-year-old daughter, but the investigation is ongoing.
February
Luis Pacheco, a 27-year-old illegal, was arrested for beating his two-week-old son to potential death in Texas.

Napa County Sheriff’s Deputy Riley Jarecki narrowly avoided death at the hands of Javier Hernandez Morales, a 48-year-old illegal alien from Mexico. Morales, who was killed in a shootout with the police officer, had a long criminal history and had been deported multiple times. In addition, ICE had issued detainers for Morales in 2014, 2015, and 2016, but none were honored by the local California jail staff.

A court in northern Texas sentenced 37-year-old illegal alien, Roli Lopez-Sanchez, to 60 years in prison – with no possibility of parole – for raping and impregnating an 11-year-old girl.
January
Wilber Ernesto Martinez-Guzman, a 19-year-old illegal alien from El Salvador, was arrested and charged with the murder of four elderly American citizens, whom he also robbed, including numerous guns, in Nevada.

A Honduran illegal alien, Hector Montez (31), was arrested in California for raping and impregnating a 14-year-old girl he had met online. Montez had been arrested twice for illegally entering the United States.

But hey, as long as Bob isn't impacted, it's not a problem, right?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:17 am 
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tlynn78 wrote:
Bob: "what makes you think that immigration is a problem ?"

I'll ignore the sheer, willful stupidity that makes Bob drop the "illegal" in front of the word immigration.
Here's some quick Google findings:


"According to GAO, in FY 2009 295,959 SCAAP criminal aliens, of whom approximately 227,600 are illegal aliens, were incarcerated in state jails and prisons. This is a 40 percent and 25 percent increase, respectively, in criminal-alien incarcerations in state jails and prisons since FY 2003."

In California, “about 50 percent of California’s primary convictions related to SCAAP illegal aliens were for drugs, assault, and sex offenses.”

The below is JUST 2019, and ONLY those actually caught and known to be illegals:

2019
April
On April 2, Miguel Martinez was arrested in Louisiana on 100 counts of possession of pornography of children under the age of 13, one count of production of child pornography, and one count of sexual battery of a child under the age of 13. Martinez, an illegal alien, was deported in 2005 and remains a registered sex offender in California, a sanctuary state.

On April 3, 2019, thirteen-year-old Mariana Pérez Borroto was struck and killed by an illegal alien from Argentina while riding her bicycle to school in Kissimmee, Florida. The suspect, Micaela Coronel, had overstayed a work visa and was driving without a license. ICE has placed a detainer on Coronel so she will be deported regardless of whether there is a conviction.

Illegal alien Laura Rosas killed Emmanuel Ramirez by running him over twice with her vehicle outside of the OK Corral nightclub in Fort Worth, Texas, on April 8, 2019. Rosas has been charged with murder and is being held on a $200,000 bond. ICE has also placed a detainer on her.

Juan Francisco, an illegal alien from Guatemala, killed Debbie Burgess in a hit-and-run in Knoxville, Tennessee, on April 8. Francisco’s criminal history includes a 2017 DUI conviction, a 2004 reckless driving charge, and a 2002 theft charge. Despite a 2002 warrant stating his illegal status, Francisco was never deported. As of this writing, Francisco is still being sought by the authorities.

On April 12, 2019, illegal Honduran alien Carlos Zuniga-Aviles kicked his girlfriend’s four-month-old son to death in Memphis, Tennessee. Zuniga-Aviles reportedly killed the infant, Alexander Lizondro-Chacon, because the boy was fathered by another man. The illegal alien had been deported from the U.S. five times (in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2015, and December 2016).
March
Twice deported to his native Honduras, Jorge Rios-Doblado stalked and brutally beat, raped, and drowned a Caroline Cano, who was out jogging in Jersey City’s Lincoln Park on March 24, 2019. Cano was originally from Peru and worked as a nanny.
The ICE office in Newark, New Jersey, stated its intent to take “custody of Rios-Doblado at the conclusion of his criminal proceedings, despite limited cooperation in the state.”

In Kittitas County (Washington state), Sheriff’s Deputy Ryan Thompson was killed in the line of duty by Juan Manuel Flores Del Toro, an illegal alien living in the U.S. illegally after overstaying his H-2A visa in 2014. Del Toro led officers on a car pursuit before eventually pulling over and then opening fire at Deputy Thompson and his partner, Deputy Benito Chavez. The illegal alien subsequently died but not before killing the father of three and injuring his partner.

A native of Guatemala, Domingo Francisco Marcos killed Sonya Jones, a mother of two, in a hit-and-run collision. Jones was a teacher at the Living Word Christian Center Kingdom Academy in Mobile, Alabama. Marcos sought asylum after entering the U.S. illegally and was released in 2017 with the promise to appear for his court date. He was consequently denied asylum and ordered deported, but was not removed from the country.

On March 21, Mexican national Ramon Hector Martine Ontiveros killed Paige Lane Gomer in a shooting. According to police, Ontiveros admitted to shooting Gomer, who left behind a two-year-old daughter, but the investigation is ongoing.
February
Luis Pacheco, a 27-year-old illegal, was arrested for beating his two-week-old son to potential death in Texas.

Napa County Sheriff’s Deputy Riley Jarecki narrowly avoided death at the hands of Javier Hernandez Morales, a 48-year-old illegal alien from Mexico. Morales, who was killed in a shootout with the police officer, had a long criminal history and had been deported multiple times. In addition, ICE had issued detainers for Morales in 2014, 2015, and 2016, but none were honored by the local California jail staff.

A court in northern Texas sentenced 37-year-old illegal alien, Roli Lopez-Sanchez, to 60 years in prison – with no possibility of parole – for raping and impregnating an 11-year-old girl.
January
Wilber Ernesto Martinez-Guzman, a 19-year-old illegal alien from El Salvador, was arrested and charged with the murder of four elderly American citizens, whom he also robbed, including numerous guns, in Nevada.

A Honduran illegal alien, Hector Montez (31), was arrested in California for raping and impregnating a 14-year-old girl he had met online. Montez had been arrested twice for illegally entering the United States.

But hey, as long as Bob isn't impacted, it's not a problem, right?
Millions of unauthorized aliens in the country, and all you can find is enough to fit in a medium-length post? Seems pretty likely to me that they're better neighbors than most of our fellow citizens.

Which is exactly what the larger statistics say as well. I could find a lot more similar (probably more horrifying) stories involving native-born citizens. Hell, I can find at least one criminal in Congress right now. Although I hear he's going to leave Congress to run for Governor of Montana.

The only way to keep out of the country all immigrants who are willing to commit a crime is simply to keep out of the country all immigrants, period. --Bob

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