Question for you grammar people

Message

peacock2121 · #26 Post by **peacock2121** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:00 am

SportsFan68 wrote:
peacock2121 wrote:
Catfish wrote: This is correct, as in Veterans Affairs.
Perfect analogy for my brain!
I like Catfish's example too.

T makes a good point too. And if you call it The Assistant Training Program, you won't have people constantly bugging you to put an apostrophe in.

avoidance!

Not always a bad thing.

SportsFan68 · #27 Post by **SportsFan68** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:02 am

peacock2121 wrote:
Catfish wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:Why not "Assistant Training Program"?

t.
Or "Assistant-Training Program" lest anyone think the chief training program has an assistant.
oh boy. Now we're getting into dashes and stuff that I have no clue when and how to use properly.

Actually, that's a hypen.

That distinction has blurred to the point where I've come around. If I'm reading a serial number over the phone, I don't say 6 hyphen 823, I say 6 dash 823 so as not to confuse my phone helper.

peacock2121 · #28 Post by **peacock2121** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:03 am

SportsFan68 wrote:
peacock2121 wrote:
Catfish wrote: Or "Assistant-Training Program" lest anyone think the chief training program has an assistant.
oh boy. Now we're getting into dashes and stuff that I have no clue when and how to use properly.
Actually, that's a hypen.

That distinction has blurred to the point where I've come around. If I'm reading a serial number over the phone, I don't say 6 hyphen 823, I say 6 dash 823 so as not to confuse my phone helper.

bite me

SportsFan68 · #29 Post by **SportsFan68** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:04 am

peacock2121 wrote:
SportsFan68 wrote:
peacock2121 wrote: oh boy. Now we're getting into dashes and stuff that I have no clue when and how to use properly.
Actually, that's a hypen.

That distinction has blurred to the point where I've come around. If I'm reading a serial number over the phone, I don't say 6 hyphen 823, I say 6 dash 823 so as not to confuse my phone helper.
bite me

Happily!

It's been months.

peacock2121 · #30 Post by **peacock2121** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:07 am

SportsFan68 wrote:
peacock2121 wrote:
SportsFan68 wrote: Actually, that's a hypen.

That distinction has blurred to the point where I've come around. If I'm reading a serial number over the phone, I don't say 6 hyphen 823, I say 6 dash 823 so as not to confuse my phone helper.
bite me

Happily!

It's been months.

You are here during the day!

It is so great to have that.

Bob Juch · #31 Post by **Bob Juch** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:09 am

peacock2121 wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
peacock2121 wrote: My first answer is because there will be more than one assistant being trained at a time.

Does that make a difference in that?
You just answered why the second choice was wrong.
I don't get that.

Because there are assistants. "Assistant's" would belong to one assistant.

SportsFan68 · #32 Post by **SportsFan68** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:26 am

peacock2121 wrote:
SportsFan68 wrote:
peacock2121 wrote: bite me

Happily!

It's been months.
You are here during the day!

It is so great to have that.

Thanks!

It's about to end -- I may or may not be back late 2nite.

Everybody have a great day!

themanintheseersuckersuit · #33 Post by **themanintheseersuckersuit** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:35 am

Instruction for Volunteers

MarleysGh0st · #34 Post by **MarleysGh0st** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:42 am

I vote for Assistant Training Program.

And Google agrees.

"Assistants Training Program" (which includes both variants with the apostrophe) gets 1,930 hits.

"Assistant Training Program" gets 63,500 hits.

That's an overwhelming ATA result!

mrkelley23 · #35 Post by **mrkelley23** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:59 am

MarleysGh0st wrote:I vote for Assistant Training Program.

And Google agrees.

"Assistants Training Program" (which includes both variants with the apostrophe) gets 1,930 hits.

"Assistant Training Program" gets 63,500 hits.

That's an overwhelming ATA result!

I have a feeling James Kilpatrick would disagree. There is no absolute authority of course, but I like Kilpatrick's common sense approach. He says in a case like this, where there is no absolute "correct" answer, to go with a correct answer that doesn't cause the reader to back up and say "whoa! did I read that right?"

That's why I vote for Assistants Training Program. What does the program do? Why, it trains assistants. "Assistant Training Program" sounds like a program that's not quite good enough to be a training program yet, so it's just an assistant.

gsabc · #36 Post by **gsabc** » Wed May 28, 2008 12:36 pm

Sheesh, I thought I was pedantic! Just call it "Irving" and be done with it.

Beebs52 · #37 Post by **Beebs52** » Wed May 28, 2008 1:04 pm

mrkelley23 wrote:
MarleysGh0st wrote:I vote for Assistant Training Program.

And Google agrees.

"Assistants Training Program" (which includes both variants with the apostrophe) gets 1,930 hits.

"Assistant Training Program" gets 63,500 hits.

That's an overwhelming ATA result!
I have a feeling James Kilpatrick would disagree. There is no absolute authority of course, but I like Kilpatrick's common sense approach. He says in a case like this, where there is no absolute "correct" answer, to go with a correct answer that doesn't cause the reader to back up and say "whoa! did I read that right?"

That's why I vote for Assistants Training Program. What does the program do? Why, it trains assistants. "Assistant Training Program" sounds like a program that's not quite good enough to be a training program yet, so it's just an assistant.

I agree with Mr. K. Quite right, sir.
Also, your cat there. Gee. Has Merv been moonlighting?

etaoin22 · #38 Post by **etaoin22** » Wed May 28, 2008 1:32 pm

No possessive AFAICS, so "Assistants Training Program"

like the difference between " John's file" and a "Johns file"

Bob Juch · #39 Post by **Bob Juch** » Wed May 28, 2008 1:45 pm

As an aside:

27 years ago I went to a company class called "System Engineer Cross-training". On the materials that was abbreviated to "SE X training".

sunflower · #40 Post by **sunflower** » Wed May 28, 2008 2:48 pm

IMO, it doesn't belong to anyone. It is a program for becoming an assistant therefore I belive it is the "Assistant Training Program". Like the previous example of nurse training program, it does not belong to anyone. They are not assistants yet, so it is not theirs, either in the singular or the plural.

wbtravis007 · #41 Post by **wbtravis007** » Wed May 28, 2008 2:57 pm

How 'bout: Training Program for Assistants?

What the hell do they need to know, anyway?

Let me know if you need an assistant for your program.

a1mamacat · #42 Post by **a1mamacat** » Wed May 28, 2008 2:57 pm

peacock2121 wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
peacock2121 wrote:I am creating this program. It is designed to train people who are not on staff and volunteer at seminars for Landmark Education. I have assisted at seminars for quite some time and have something to contribute to people who have never done that before. This is a program to train assistants (or people who assist).

My question:

It is The Assistants Training Program or The Assistant's Training Program?
Neither!

The Assistants' Training Program
Okay, but why the " ' " - where is the ownership?

Cus Assistants ends in an S. For example. A book that belongs to Big J is, vs James' book. A book belonging to Moi, is Saucy's Book

Bob Juch · #43 Post by **Bob Juch** » Wed May 28, 2008 3:13 pm

a1mamacat wrote:
peacock2121 wrote:
Bob Juch wrote: Neither!

The Assistants' Training Program
Okay, but why the " ' " - where is the ownership?
Cus Assistants ends in an S. For example. A book that belongs to Big J is, vs James' book. A book belonging to Moi, is Saucy's Book

Not in the U.S. I'm not sure about British English either, but in the U.S. it would be "James's". For some reason the only exception to that rule is "Jesus'".

tlynn78 · #44 Post by **tlynn78** » Wed May 28, 2008 3:16 pm

Cus Assistants ends in an S. For example. A book that belongs to Big J is, vs James' book. A book belonging to Moi, is Saucy's

Nope. "Assistants" ends in 's' because it is plural. James ends in 's' because it just does. There is only one James (for which, at times, I'm sure you are grateful)

I still think it should simply be Assistant Training Program. Most people will know the "Assistant" modifies "training," not "program." The ones who don't know, you probably don't want to try to train, anyway.

t.

sunflower · #45 Post by **sunflower** » Wed May 28, 2008 3:21 pm

Grammar is so controversial!!

silvercamaro · #46 Post by **silvercamaro** » Wed May 28, 2008 3:30 pm

Bob Juch said:

Not in the U.S. I'm not sure about British English either, but in the U.S. it would be "James's". For some reason the only exception to that rule is "Jesus'".

It's not a question of U.S. vs. British English. Saucy is following the traditional rule she was taught, as was I. Alas, that rule has been "simplified," because -- in my opinion -- someone decided that most schoolchildren were incapable of remembering it. (I might argue that too many teachers were unable to tell the difference, but that's an argument for another day.)

Ken Jennings has related the story of how his recent book, "Ken Jennings's Trivia Almanac" gained the extra S over his objections. It will always look wrong to some of us.

tlynn78 · #47 Post by **tlynn78** » Wed May 28, 2008 3:40 pm

tlynn 78 said:

Actually, that was Bob Juch. I understand your confusion. We look a lot alike, only his beard is heavier.

t.

Bob Juch · #48 Post by **Bob Juch** » Wed May 28, 2008 3:48 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
tlynn 78 said:

Actually, that was Bob Juch. I understand your confusion. We look a lot alike, only his beard is heavier.

t.

I'm the one with the belly hair.

kayrharris · #49 Post by **kayrharris** » Wed May 28, 2008 3:48 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
tlynn 78 said:

Actually, that was Bob Juch. I understand your confusion. We look a lot alike, only his beard is heavier.

t.

This made me laugh out loud. It is hard to keep up, especially on a very long thread. (I hope I used correct punctuation....ignore if I didn't.)

silvercamaro · #50 Post by **silvercamaro** » Wed May 28, 2008 3:51 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
tlynn 78 said:

Actually, that was Bob Juch. I understand your confusion. We look a lot alike, only his beard is heavier.

t.

Oops. Somehow I cut off the beginning of the quote thingie, and I tried to correct it quickly, but didn't go back far enough to the right post. Please accept my apologies. (I'm afraid now to say anything else for fear that in trying to make some kind of joke here, I'd offend one of you or the other.)

I'll go edit my post.

WWTBAM Bored

Question for you grammar people

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