The Kentucky clerk
- tlynn78
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The Kentucky clerk
Needs to step down. Just my .02.
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Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
- elwoodblues
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
If you work for the government you don't get to pick and choose which laws you want to follow. You have to follow all of them or look for some other line of work.
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
Kim Davis could always take a job at the Family Research Council. I'm sure that the position held by that Duggar kid will be opening up soon.
In the meantime, she could read the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and learn why the Founding Fathers wrote freedom from religion before freedom of religion. She could learn why, as a government official, she has no constitutional right to force her religious beliefs on others and no constitutional right to use religion as an excuse to deny other Americans their constitutional rights.
We're not saying that she can't have certain religious beliefs. We're just saying that she can't force them onto others while in a government position. Huge difference.
In the meantime, she could read the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and learn why the Founding Fathers wrote freedom from religion before freedom of religion. She could learn why, as a government official, she has no constitutional right to force her religious beliefs on others and no constitutional right to use religion as an excuse to deny other Americans their constitutional rights.
We're not saying that she can't have certain religious beliefs. We're just saying that she can't force them onto others while in a government position. Huge difference.
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
She's going to parlay this into a free money gig where she'll never have to work a day's worth of honest labor again.
I just wish she'd take her four times married, several times adulterous ass on the road and do it already.
I'm sure Duggar and the co-founder of the FRC, who went down in disgrace after hiring a gay escort to cavort with in Europe, can show her the ropes.
I just wish she'd take her four times married, several times adulterous ass on the road and do it already.
I'm sure Duggar and the co-founder of the FRC, who went down in disgrace after hiring a gay escort to cavort with in Europe, can show her the ropes.
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- tlynn78
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
Pastor Fireball wrote:Kim Davis could always take a job at the Family Research Council. I'm sure that the position held by that Duggar kid will be opening up soon.
In the meantime, she could read the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and learn why the Founding Fathers wrote freedom from religion before freedom of religion. She could learn why, as a government official, she has no constitutional right to force her religious beliefs on others and no constitutional right to use religion as an excuse to deny other Americans their constitutional rights.
We're not saying that she can't have certain religious beliefs. We're just saying that she can't force them onto others while in a government position. Huge difference.
She's not forcing her religious beliefs on anyone, she's using her beliefs to justify her choice to refuse to do her job. She is failing to execute her sworn duties, and for that, she should step down.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
Actually she's doing both.
Because she's telling those gay couples why she's not granting them their licenses.
Because she's telling those gay couples why she's not granting them their licenses.
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- tlynn78
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
She's not granting marriage licenses to anyone, actually, but it's not "forcing her religion on them." She's not dragging them to her church or forcing them to accept Jesus.Jeemie wrote:Actually she's doing both.
Because she's telling those gay couples why she's not granting them their licenses.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
You think that's the only way of forcing a religious belief on someone?tlynn78 wrote:She's not granting marriage licenses to anyone, actually, but it's not "forcing her religion on them." She's not dragging them to her church or forcing them to accept Jesus.
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- tlynn78
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
I think the rhetoric in this matter is ridiculous from all sides. If one forces a 'belief' on someone, religious or otherwise, that someone then adopts that belief, no? I don't think that's happening. She's certainly inconveniencing people, and basing her reasons on her own beliefs, but she's not forcing them to adopt her beliefs. She's a disgrace.Jeemie wrote:You think that's the only way of forcing a religious belief on someone?tlynn78 wrote:She's not granting marriage licenses to anyone, actually, but it's not "forcing her religion on them." She's not dragging them to her church or forcing them to accept Jesus.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
- SpacemanSpiff
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
Herein lies some issues.
The position is an elected one. In her case, it seems to be hereditarial, since her mom held the same position for nearly four decades. Even if the people were inclined to do so, I don't think they can have a recall election for the post. There might be a way to impeach her and remove her from office, but then she might just end up like Judge Roy Moore of Alabama, and get reelected.
Fines probably won't make her move, and likely some of these organization that aren't savvy to gay marriage might even cover them for her.* Jail time would remove her from the office proper, but her underlings might not comply with the orders, either (hence the bench order for her and her staff to report to court, not just her).
And, realistically, in that part of the state, she won't find a better-paying job.
---
* Note - that might be considered taxable income, but that's an argument for another day.
The position is an elected one. In her case, it seems to be hereditarial, since her mom held the same position for nearly four decades. Even if the people were inclined to do so, I don't think they can have a recall election for the post. There might be a way to impeach her and remove her from office, but then she might just end up like Judge Roy Moore of Alabama, and get reelected.
Fines probably won't make her move, and likely some of these organization that aren't savvy to gay marriage might even cover them for her.* Jail time would remove her from the office proper, but her underlings might not comply with the orders, either (hence the bench order for her and her staff to report to court, not just her).
And, realistically, in that part of the state, she won't find a better-paying job.
---
* Note - that might be considered taxable income, but that's an argument for another day.
"If you're dead, you don't have any freedoms at all." - Jason Isbell
- tlynn78
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
Yeah, it'll be very problematic to get her out - that's why I think, ethically speaking, she should step down voluntarily. She's been there long enough to have accrued a decent retirement, I would imagine. Most anyone who has that much experience in a Clerk of Court office should have no problem finding work with a law firm. Maybe Liberty Counsel can hire her.SpacemanSpiff wrote:Herein lies some issues.
The position is an elected one. In her case, it seems to be hereditarial, since her mom held the same position for nearly four decades. Even if the people were inclined to do so, I don't think they can have a recall election for the post. There might be a way to impeach her and remove her from office, but then she might just end up like Judge Roy Moore of Alabama, and get reelected.
Fines probably won't make her move, and likely some of these organization that aren't savvy to gay marriage might even cover them for her.* Jail time would remove her from the office proper, but her underlings might not comply with the orders, either (hence the bench order for her and her staff to report to court, not just her).
And, realistically, in that part of the state, she won't find a better-paying job.
---
* Note - that might be considered taxable income, but that's an argument for another day.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
- TheMichiganBarAssociation
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
tlynn78 wrote:Yeah, it'll be very problematic to get her out - that's why I think, ethically speaking, she should step down voluntarily. She's been there long enough to have accrued a decent retirement, I would imagine. Most anyone who has that much experience in a Clerk of Court office should have no problem finding work with a law firm. Maybe Liberty Counsel can hire her.SpacemanSpiff wrote:Herein lies some issues.
The position is an elected one. In her case, it seems to be hereditarial, since her mom held the same position for nearly four decades. Even if the people were inclined to do so, I don't think they can have a recall election for the post. There might be a way to impeach her and remove her from office, but then she might just end up like Judge Roy Moore of Alabama, and get reelected.
Fines probably won't make her move, and likely some of these organization that aren't savvy to gay marriage might even cover them for her.* Jail time would remove her from the office proper, but her underlings might not comply with the orders, either (hence the bench order for her and her staff to report to court, not just her).
And, realistically, in that part of the state, she won't find a better-paying job.
---
* Note - that might be considered taxable income, but that's an argument for another day.
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- tlynn78
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
An excellent solution!TheMichiganBarAssociation wrote:tlynn78 wrote:Yeah, it'll be very problematic to get her out - that's why I think, ethically speaking, she should step down voluntarily. She's been there long enough to have accrued a decent retirement, I would imagine. Most anyone who has that much experience in a Clerk of Court office should have no problem finding work with a law firm. Maybe Liberty Counsel can hire her.SpacemanSpiff wrote:Herein lies some issues.
The position is an elected one. In her case, it seems to be hereditarial, since her mom held the same position for nearly four decades. Even if the people were inclined to do so, I don't think they can have a recall election for the post. There might be a way to impeach her and remove her from office, but then she might just end up like Judge Roy Moore of Alabama, and get reelected.
Fines probably won't make her move, and likely some of these organization that aren't savvy to gay marriage might even cover them for her.* Jail time would remove her from the office proper, but her underlings might not comply with the orders, either (hence the bench order for her and her staff to report to court, not just her).
And, realistically, in that part of the state, she won't find a better-paying job.
---
* Note - that might be considered taxable income, but that's an argument for another day.
We are always in need of having our papers shuffled! When can she start?
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
- SportsFan68
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
I wrote something to that effect on the "Contact us" section of her official clerk website and haven't heard back. I think that she probably has ordered the staff to delete anything referencing the licensing issue.tlynn78 wrote:Pastor Fireball wrote:Kim Davis could always take a job at the Family Research Council. I'm sure that the position held by that Duggar kid will be opening up soon.
In the meantime, she could read the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and learn why the Founding Fathers wrote freedom from religion before freedom of religion. She could learn why, as a government official, she has no constitutional right to force her religious beliefs on others and no constitutional right to use religion as an excuse to deny other Americans their constitutional rights.
We're not saying that she can't have certain religious beliefs. We're just saying that she can't force them onto others while in a government position. Huge difference.
She's not forcing her religious beliefs on anyone, she's using her beliefs to justify her choice to refuse to do her job. She is failing to execute her sworn duties, and for that, she should step down.
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
Go to jail. Go directly to jail. Do not pass GO. But you can claim martyrdom from the heathens.
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- tlynn78
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
What?! No reply? Imagine that. You'd think failing to fulfill one's duties would free up some time to respond.SportsFan68 wrote:
I wrote something to that effect on the "Contact us" section of her official clerk website and haven't heard back. I think that she probably has ordered the staff to delete anything referencing the licensing issue.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
- earendel
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
A federal judge has ordered Kim Davis to be jailed for contempt of court.
Interestingly she issued a statement that included this sentence:
To issue a marriage license which conflicts with God's definition of marriage, with my name affixed to the certificate, would violate my conscience."
Did she think about that when she requested not one, but four different marriage licenses? What if a clerk had said, "it's against my religious convictions to issue a marriage license to a divorced person"?
Interestingly she issued a statement that included this sentence:
To issue a marriage license which conflicts with God's definition of marriage, with my name affixed to the certificate, would violate my conscience."
Did she think about that when she requested not one, but four different marriage licenses? What if a clerk had said, "it's against my religious convictions to issue a marriage license to a divorced person"?
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
tlynn78 wrote:What?! No reply? Imagine that. You'd think failing to fulfill one's duties would free up some time to respond.SportsFan68 wrote:
I wrote something to that effect on the "Contact us" section of her official clerk website and haven't heard back. I think that she probably has ordered the staff to delete anything referencing the licensing issue.
I would happily respond to Sprots if she contacted me!!!!
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--squirrelmama (10/3/07)
Many of these (squirrel) migrations were probably caused by food shortages as well as habitat overcrowding. We solved that for them. We not only reduced their habitat, we reduced the whole species by about 90%. The least we can do now is share a little birdseed with them.
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- tlynn78
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
earendel wrote:A federal judge has ordered Kim Davis to be jailed for contempt of court.
Interestingly she issued a statement that included this sentence:
To issue a marriage license which conflicts with God's definition of marriage, with my name affixed to the certificate, would violate my conscience."
Did she think about that when she requested not one, but four different marriage licenses? What if a clerk had said, "it's against my religious convictions to issue a marriage license to a divorced person"?
Her religious convictions are relatively new to her, post-(her first three)divorce(s). The real hypocrisy lies in the fact that it's apparently okay to have her name on divorce decrees, but not marriage licenses, imo. No pickin' and choosin' when it comes to sinnin'.
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You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
Re: the bolded- there are rumblings out there that her underlings would issue licenses if they could, but they are scared of her.SpacemanSpiff wrote:Herein lies some issues.
The position is an elected one. In her case, it seems to be hereditarial, since her mom held the same position for nearly four decades. Even if the people were inclined to do so, I don't think they can have a recall election for the post. There might be a way to impeach her and remove her from office, but then she might just end up like Judge Roy Moore of Alabama, and get reelected.
Fines probably won't make her move, and likely some of these organization that aren't savvy to gay marriage might even cover them for her.* Jail time would remove her from the office proper, but her underlings might not comply with the orders, either (hence the bench order for her and her staff to report to court, not just her).
And, realistically, in that part of the state, she won't find a better-paying job.
---
* Note - that might be considered taxable income, but that's an argument for another day.
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
I'm wondering why no one has pointed out that she swore to God to uphold the Constitution when she took office.
While the bible says nothing about gay marriage it does say it's a sin to break an oath.
While the bible says nothing about gay marriage it does say it's a sin to break an oath.
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
Good. What she's doing is akin to a batter refusing to leave first base because he thinks the ump blew the call. Doesn't matter, at this point, whether the call is right or wrong. They're the umps. --Bobearendel wrote:A federal judge has ordered Kim Davis to be jailed for contempt of court.
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
delwoodblues wrote:If you work for the government you don't get to pick and choose which laws you want to follow. You have to follow all of them or look for some other line of work.
I don't agree with this clerk. She should step down if she doesn't want to issue the licenses.
That said, please tell the President and the AG what you just said. Maybe they will listen to you.
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- tlynn78
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
BackInTex wrote:delwoodblues wrote:If you work for the government you don't get to pick and choose which laws you want to follow. You have to follow all of them or look for some other line of work.
I don't agree with this clerk. She should step down if she doesn't want to issue the licenses.
That said, please tell the President and the AG what you just said. Maybe they will listen to you.
LOL. Indeed.
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Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
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Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
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Re: The Kentucky clerk
Are you saying they aren't following the laws? If so which?BackInTex wrote:delwoodblues wrote:If you work for the government you don't get to pick and choose which laws you want to follow. You have to follow all of them or look for some other line of work.
I don't agree with this clerk. She should step down if she doesn't want to issue the licenses.
That said, please tell the President and the AG what you just said. Maybe they will listen to you.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.