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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:55 pm 
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We might not have deserved Trump, but we definitely are lucky we didn't get her.

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"I won the places that represent two-thirds of America's gross domestic product," Clinton said. "So I won the places that are optimistic, diverse, dynamic, moving forward. And his whole campaign, 'Make America Great Again,' was looking backwards. You know, you didn't like black people getting rights, you don't like women, you know, getting jobs, you don't want to, you know, see that Indian-American succeeding more than you are, whatever your problem is, I'm going to solve it."

"We don't do well with married, white women [either]," she said. "Part of that is an identification with the Republican Party and [an] ongoing pressure to vote the way that your husband, your boss, your son... believes you should."


Yes sir, Hill-babe. We don't want no black folk gettin' no rights, or chicks gettin' jobs or ferrners gettin' our money. You betcha girl.

So me and my boy are gonna beat up mom unless she votes the way we want her to. Dang, why does she even get to vote anyway?


That's what she thinks of us. What a bigotted jerk. But she won't be called out for it, no sir. When I first saw this interview, I wanted to shout "&#**& You!" to her.

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No debate, say whatever you want to defend her, this illustrates why I couldn't vote for her. This is real bigotry, not the fake kind they accuse Trump of.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:39 am 
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Maybe she's dehydrated and has pneumonia.

Again.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:57 am 
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silvercamaro wrote:
Maybe she's dehydrated and has pneumonia.

Again.



Right? Thank God every day.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:50 am 
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I searched for this interview hoping it was #FAKENEWS. Sadly, it’s real.

This BS is like her “deplorables” rant in 2016. No wonder churchgoing conservatives are willing to vote for a serial adulterer instead. After the election, the Democrats realized we have to expand our appeal beyond our base to have a chance of winning. But when Trump’s popularity gets low, the Democrats revert to old bad habits.

I can hear Pink’s What About Us? in my head.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:59 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
We might not have deserved Trump, but we definitely are lucky we didn't get her.

[quote"We don't do well with married, white women [either],"


And there's evidence to support Hillary's claim.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 239dd533e9

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:00 am 
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jarnon wrote:
I searched for this interview hoping it was #FAKENEWS. Sadly, it’s real.

This BS is like her “deplorables” rant in 2016. No wonder churchgoing conservatives are willing to vote for a serial adulterer instead. After the election, the Democrats realized we have to expand our appeal beyond our base to have a chance of winning. But when Trump’s popularity gets low, the Democrats revert to old bad habits.

I can hear Pink’s What About Us? in my head.


Oprah will solve everything.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:03 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
That's what she thinks of us. What a bigotted jerk. But she won't be called out for it, no sir.


As opposed to people like Flock, who don't think ugly things about black people in general; they just act that way a lot of the time and find reasons to justify it.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:18 am 
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We don't do well with married, white women [either]. Part of that is an identification with the Republican Party and [an] ongoing pressure to vote the way that your husband, your boss, your son... believes you should.

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:22 am 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
That's what she thinks of us. What a bigotted jerk. But she won't be called out for it, no sir.


As opposed to people like Flock, who don't think ugly things about black people in general; they just act that way a lot of the time and find reasons to justify it.

I'm not going to trade insults with you, SSS. I expressed my opinion, you have yours. Let others judge for themselves.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:33 am 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
That's what she thinks of us. What a bigotted jerk. But she won't be called out for it, no sir.


As opposed to people like Flock, who don't think ugly things about black people in general; they just act that way a lot of the time and find reasons to justify it.



Oh yeah, remember when Flock said "... just put him in prison with a black cellmate and let nature take its course."
Oh wait .. that wasn't Flock... :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:42 am 
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
I'm not going to trade insults with you, SSS. I expressed my opinion, you have yours. Let others judge for themselves.


I'm glad you're back Flock.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:36 am 
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We had a, um, spirited discussion related to this topic in a class I'm taking about politics last month.

The thesis was that the U.S. Democratic party took a deliberate turn toward identity politics with Bill Clinton, and how that policy now seems to be failing them.

The consensus was that the Dems would be much better served by re-focusing on issues, rather than identity. Hillary doesn't seem to grasp that.

That being said, the notion that this country would be in more danger under a Clinton presidency than the current one is so far disconnected from my view of reality that it scares me just a little.

Let's look at the issues:

Deficit/Debt: Far worse under this presidency.
Identity politics: racial/neo-Nazi attacks up 60% in 2017
Corruption in the White House: Don't know if HRC could be worse, but she would at least be attempting to cover it up.
Foreign policy: Right now, we're attacking allies, defending tinpot dictators, and actively encouraging Russia and China.

I guess you could make a case that immigration issues are better. Other than that, I have a hard time seeing it.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:52 am 
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mrkelley23 wrote:

Identity politics: racial/neo-Nazi attacks up 60% in 2017


What is this statistic and where are you getting it?

By what, I'm interested in what is defined as a "racial" attack and what isn't. What is the base year? What was the number in 2010? I won't argue "neo-Nazi" attacks are up or down as those numbers are so small to be statistically insignificant in looking at race relations in this country.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:20 am 
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BackInTex wrote:
mrkelley23 wrote:

Identity politics: racial/neo-Nazi attacks up 60% in 2017


What is this statistic and where are you getting it?

By what, I'm interested in what is defined as a "racial" attack and what isn't. What is the base year? What was the number in 2010? I won't argue "neo-Nazi" attacks are up or down as those numbers are so small to be statistically insignificant in looking at race relations in this country.


My apologies -- I was unclear, and I was conflating a couple of statistics in my head. The Anti-Defamation League reports reports that Anti-Semitic attacks were up nearly 60% in the U.S. in 2017. The Southern Poverty Law Center reports that the numbers of hate groups in the U.S. rose significantly in 2017, as well, including not only neo-Nazi groups but also black nationalist groups like the Nation of Islam. But that growth was not 60%

Still, the growth rate of both statistics increased significantly over previous years of coverage. If you have other data, I'd be pleased to consider it.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:21 am 
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mrkelley23 wrote:
We had a, um, spirited discussion related to this topic in a class I'm taking about politics last month.

The thesis was that the U.S. Democratic party took a deliberate turn toward identity politics with Bill Clinton, and how that policy now seems to be failing them.

The consensus was that the Dems would be much better served by re-focusing on issues, rather than identity. Hillary doesn't seem to grasp that.

That being said, the notion that this country would be in more danger under a Clinton presidency than the current one is so far disconnected from my view of reality that it scares me just a little.

Let's look at the issues:

Deficit/Debt: Far worse under this presidency.
Identity politics: racial/neo-Nazi attacks up 60% in 2017
Corruption in the White House: Don't know if HRC could be worse, but she would at least be attempting to cover it up.
Foreign policy: Right now, we're attacking allies, defending tinpot dictators, and actively encouraging Russia and China.

I guess you could make a case that immigration issues are better. Other than that, I have a hard time seeing it.


This pretty much aligns with a recent conversation I had with a couple of friends. Granted - we didn't spend MUCH time talking about it - we had people stuff to catch up on but it was a bit of our conversation.

All of us grew up in Dem/union households.

One is a former GOP moderate who is now an independent (I think she voted or Johnson but am not sure). The other is a registered Dem who still votes Dem most of the time but was willing to give Trump a chance and is beginning to regret it (split ticket - voted Trump, Katie McGinty for Senate and her Dem Congressman). And me, who held her nose to vote for Hillary because I dislike Trump more (and the more she says stupid crap like above, the less I like her).

One of the Trump voter's concerns was the seeming inability of Trump to stay consistent on anything. His changing his mind so often, sometimes in the same day.

For the independent, it was tactical -- she (like I) thought Trump should have started with infrastructure because, unlike so many issues, most people agree we need investment in infrastructure. It's the wheres and the how much that splits people - but both of us felt an honest dialogue might have benefited everyone.

Hillary Clinton has this unfortunate tendency to stick her foot up her mouth, up to about mid-pantleg. Just be quiet. There is that air of noblesse oblige without the sense of real responsibility that comes with that. And, flock is right, that IS a prejudice.

(Unlike flock, however, I DO think Trump's bigotry is real. His long-standing practice of treating local glaziers and woodworking businesses as personal servants and not craftsmen working at his casinos - by either not paying them or refusing to pay in full - smacked of a contempt for blue-collar workers that equals anything Hillary Clinton has said/done. We are talking three/four generation family businesses - not some fly-nights. And there's the Fair Housing stuff from the 1970s and 1980s. So please don't tell this janitor's daughter that Donald Trump loves the working man.)

Of course, as a Tom Harkin delegate in 1992, I was never a fan of the DLC wing of the party. I did meet the man once - he shook the hands of about 50 aides and said something good/nice about a piece of legislation or the boss or the committee. That kind of memory is a talent - I am sorry it came with someone who couldn't live up to the promise.

As far as issues vs identity - I think the results of the PA 18th special election will be interesting. Conor Lamb has specifically stayed away from the media darling crap that really ended up hurting Jon Ossoff. He's an issues guy in an issues district.

Glad to see you back, flock.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:45 am 
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mellytu74 wrote:
mrkelley23 wrote:
We had a, um, spirited discussion related to this topic in a class I'm taking about politics last month.

The thesis was that the U.S. Democratic party took a deliberate turn toward identity politics with Bill Clinton, and how that policy now seems to be failing them.

The consensus was that the Dems would be much better served by re-focusing on issues, rather than identity. Hillary doesn't seem to grasp that.

That being said, the notion that this country would be in more danger under a Clinton presidency than the current one is so far disconnected from my view of reality that it scares me just a little.

Let's look at the issues:

Deficit/Debt: Far worse under this presidency.
Identity politics: racial/neo-Nazi attacks up 60% in 2017
Corruption in the White House: Don't know if HRC could be worse, but she would at least be attempting to cover it up.
Foreign policy: Right now, we're attacking allies, defending tinpot dictators, and actively encouraging Russia and China.

I guess you could make a case that immigration issues are better. Other than that, I have a hard time seeing it.


This pretty much aligns with a recent conversation I had with a couple of friends. Granted - we didn't spend MUCH time talking about it - we had people stuff to catch up on but it was a bit of our conversation.

All of us grew up in Dem/union households.

One is a former GOP moderate who is now an independent (I think she voted or Johnson but am not sure). The other is a registered Dem who still votes Dem most of the time but was willing to give Trump a chance and is beginning to regret it (split ticket - voted Trump, Katie McGinty for Senate and her Dem Congressman). And me, who held her nose to vote for Hillary because I dislike Trump more (and the more she says stupid crap like above, the less I like her).

One of the Trump voter's concerns was the seeming inability of Trump to stay consistent on anything. His changing his mind so often, sometimes in the same day.

For the independent, it was tactical -- she (like I) thought Trump should have started with infrastructure because, unlike so many issues, most people agree we need investment in infrastructure. It's the wheres and the how much that splits people - but both of us felt an honest dialogue might have benefited everyone.

Hillary Clinton has this unfortunate tendency to stick her foot up her mouth, up to about mid-pantleg. Just be quiet. There is that air of noblesse oblige without the sense of real responsibility that comes with that. And, flock is right, that IS a prejudice.

(Unlike flock, however, I DO think Trump's bigotry is real. His long-standing practice of treating local glaziers and woodworking businesses as personal servants and not craftsmen working at his casinos - by either not paying them or refusing to pay in full - smacked of a contempt for blue-collar workers that equals anything Hillary Clinton has said/done. We are talking three/four generation family businesses - not some fly-nights. And there's the Fair Housing stuff from the 1970s and 1980s. So please don't tell this janitor's daughter that Donald Trump loves the working man.)

Of course, as a Tom Harkin delegate in 1992, I was never a fan of the DLC wing of the party. I did meet the man once - he shook the hands of about 50 aides and said something good/nice about a piece of legislation or the boss or the committee. That kind of memory is a talent - I am sorry it came with someone who couldn't live up to the promise.

As far as issues vs identity - I think the results of the PA 18th special election will be interesting. Conor Lamb has specifically stayed away from the media darling crap that really ended up hurting Jon Ossoff. He's an issues guy in an issues district.

Glad to see you back, flock.

I hear your steel mill may be reopening.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:11 pm 
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Like it or not, studies suggest that Clinton may not be wrong on white women voting like their husbands

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 7b68d32fa0

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:43 pm 
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Bob Juch wrote:
Like it or not, studies suggest that Clinton may not be wrong on white women voting like their husbands

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 7b68d32fa0


Rather than say fuck the Wapo and you, I'll posit an even more ridiculous idea that people who voted for Hilz are angry, dumped girlfriends and emasculated men who have no positive self identity incapable of discerning actual issues that matter to those who keep this country extant.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Beebs52 wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
Like it or not, studies suggest that Clinton may not be wrong on white women voting like their husbands

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 7b68d32fa0


Rather than say fuck the Wapo and you, I'll posit an even more ridiculous idea that people who voted for Hilz are angry, dumped girlfriends and emasculated men who have no positive self identity incapable of discerning actual issues that matter to those who keep this country extant.


Or guys trying to impress some liberal girl.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:57 pm 
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Beebs52 wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
Like it or not, studies suggest that Clinton may not be wrong on white women voting like their husbands

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 7b68d32fa0


Rather than say fuck the Wapo and you, I'll posit an even more ridiculous idea that people who voted for Hilz are angry, dumped girlfriends and emasculated men who have no positive self identity incapable of discerning actual issues that matter to those who keep this country extant.



I concur. I think. Let me check with my husband. Oh, wait... he'd be laughing his ass off at the idea of me doing what he says, on any subject, if he could, you know, have formed a coherent thought at some time in the last fifteen years.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:07 pm 
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Does no one else see the irony in all this?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:25 pm 
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By the way, since Secretary Clinton isn't running for anything and probably never will again, I'm just wondering how this compares to a current Congressional candidate telling his supporters that opponents are motivated by their "hatred of God." --Bob

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
By the way, since Secretary Clinton isn't running for anything and probably never will again, I'm just wondering how this compares to a current Congressional candidate telling his supporters that opponents are motivated by their "hatred of God." --Bob


Since Hilz keeps interjecting herself internationally and nationally and probably hopes her loser supporters goad her on, and who gives a rat's ass about a non presidential midterm candidate from Penn...what's your point in re Hilz?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:49 pm 
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Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
By the way, since Secretary Clinton isn't running for anything and probably never will again, I'm just wondering how this compares to a current Congressional candidate telling his supporters that opponents are motivated by their "hatred of God." --Bob


Since Hilz keeps interjecting herself internationally and nationally and probably hopes her loser supporters goad her on, and who gives a rat's ass about a non presidential midterm candidate from Penn...what's your point in re Hilz?
That she is a private citizen and will almost certainly remain one for the rest of her life, so who gives a rat's ass about her sticking her foot in her mouth? It strikes me as whataboutism.

I'm much more concerned when people in public office (or who are trying to attain public office) are idiots. Those are the people who can actually affect my life and yours. --Bob

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
By the way, since Secretary Clinton isn't running for anything and probably never will again, I'm just wondering how this compares to a current Congressional candidate telling his supporters that opponents are motivated by their "hatred of God." --Bob


Since Hilz keeps interjecting herself internationally and nationally and probably hopes her loser supporters goad her on, and who gives a rat's ass about a non presidential midterm candidate from Penn...what's your point in re Hilz?
That she is a private citizen and will almost certainly remain one for the rest of her life, so who gives a rat's ass about her sticking her foot in her mouth? It strikes me as whataboutism.

I'm much more concerned when people in public office (or who are trying to attain public office) are idiots. Those are the people who can actually affect my life and yours. --Bob


You seem to think you're in Hilz's inner circle. Cool.

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