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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:08 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:46 am 
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I edited the heading since when I first posted didn't know if everyone had seen the kerfluffle and didn't want anyone to think I was calling a random person a feckless whatever.
Then finally realized it looked like I was calling her a feckless whatever, which she may be, but that wasn't my original intention.

Feckless is a good word.
Feckless. Feckless.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:38 am 
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Beebs52 wrote:
I edited the heading since when I first posted didn't know if everyone had seen the kerfluffle and didn't want anyone to think I was calling a random person a feckless whatever.
Then finally realized it looked like I was calling her a feckless whatever, which she may be, but that wasn't my original intention.

Feckless is a good word.
Feckless. Feckless.
I was a little confused when I first saw your thread because I hadn't yet heard about the controversy. I got caught up fast. --Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Bob Juch wrote:
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Really? Such a popular shirt that only these 2 images appear to exist! The guy with the beer looks as if he just put it on, possibly as a joke for a picture. He had no idea he was the spokesman for the Republican Party.

What percentage of all Republicans is 2 people? You think these 2 represent ALL Republicans? About as much as you represent ALL Democrats! Tell you what - cancel both of their TV shows.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:32 pm 
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silverscreenselect wrote:
Some thoughts:

4) Language standards (and standards in general) on basic cable like TBS are not the same as on network TV. The other night on the finale of The Americans, one character called another a "f...ing piece of shit." (And, of course, just about anything goes in terms of violence on shows like The Walking Dead.) If a character on a scripted TBS or TNT show had called another a "feckless c..t," it would have probably wound up on air. So, it's not surprising that whoever was responsible for editing and producing her show didn't pick up on the full significance of the comment. And it's even less surprising that the network higher ups were unaware before it aired.

5) Standards have always been relaxed as far as comics criticizing people of the same race or sex as others. Black comics often use the N-word in routines in situations that white comics never could. Like it or not, that's the way it is nowadays. If Samantha Bee (or Roseanne) had called another woman in general a c..t, it wouldn't have caused a stir, as in "Do you know what that c..t driving next to me did today?"
I have been told by at least 4 women that there is NO word that they hate more than "c..t." I assume her show has at least a few female editors or producers, so they knew the full significance of the comment. I think it would have raised controversy in any context.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:54 pm 
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Estonut wrote:
I have been told by at least 4 women that there is NO word that they hate more than "c..t."


I wasn't trying to defend her use of it there; I just pointed out that female comics in general can get away with more offensive comments about women than male comics can, just as black comics can use the N-word in routines and Muslim and Hispanic comics can make ethnic jokes that others can't.

Out of curiosity, did those women tell you that today, after the Samantha Bee incident, or was this something that they volunteered some time ago when, say, it was used to describe Hillary Clinton as opposed to Ivanka Trump?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:57 pm 
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Estonut wrote:
The guy with the beer looks as if he just put it on, possibly as a joke for a picture. He had no idea he was the spokesman for the Republican Party.


I'm so glad we have you to tell us what Trump supporters are thinking.

What I think is that it costs money to manufacture those tee shirts and somebody probably thought there was profit to be made in doing so, which normally translates to more than two total tee shirts being sold.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:59 pm 
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Estonut wrote:
Bob Juch wrote:
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Really? Such a popular shirt that only these 2 images appear to exist! The guy with the beer looks as if he just put it on, possibly as a joke for a picture. He had no idea he was the spokesman for the Republican Party.

What percentage of all Republicans is 2 people? You think these 2 represent ALL Republicans? About as much as you represent ALL Democrats! Tell you what - cancel both of their TV shows.

Why in the world do you think these are the only two people wearing a mass-produced T-shirt?

The guy with the beer has obviously been wearing his for a long time. The other guy has a spotless wrinkle-free shirt.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:30 pm 
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It does seem appropriate to call out the White House on its clear hypocrisy. If you're Samantha Bee and you use that language, Donny wants your show cancelled. If you're Ted Nugent and you use that language, Donny invites you to the White House for a photo under the target of your invective.

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Still saying Bee was wrong to use that word, as she's acknowledged. But this White House is in no position to claim the moral high ground. --Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
It does seem appropriate to call out the White House on its clear hypocrisy. If you're Samantha Bee and you use that language, Donny wants your show cancelled. If you're Ted Nugent and you use that language, Donny invites you to the White House for a photo under the target of your invective.

Image

Still saying Bee was wrong to use that word, as she's acknowledged. But this White House is in no position to claim the moral high ground. --Bob



Isn't 'whataboutism' one of your favorite words, Bob? And I have zero knowledge about Nugent calling Hillary that word, but did he use it against her (or her daughter) on broadcast television?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:02 pm 
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tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
It does seem appropriate to call out the White House on its clear hypocrisy. If you're Samantha Bee and you use that language, Donny wants your show cancelled. If you're Ted Nugent and you use that language, Donny invites you to the White House for a photo under the target of your invective.

Image

Still saying Bee was wrong to use that word, as she's acknowledged. But this White House is in no position to claim the moral high ground. --Bob



Isn't 'whataboutism' one of your favorite words, Bob? And I have zero knowledge about Nugent calling Hillary that word, but did he use it against her (or her daughter) on broadcast television?
"Whataboutism" would be appropriate if I'd said that what Bee did was okay because Nugent did it. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that Donny is a hypocrite because his White House invitation demonstrates that he has no trouble with the word, so he's got no business complaining when someone else uses it.

Nugent publicly called Ms. Clinton a "toxic c___" in 1994, when she was FLOTUS and long before she herself became a candidate for public office. The exact quote was "'You probably can’t use the term "toxic c---" in your magazine, but that’s what she is,' Nugent said of Hillary Clinton. 'Her very existence insults the spirit of individualism in this country. This bitch is nothing but a two-bit whore for Fidel Castro.'"

Again, nothing about this makes Samantha Bee's use of the term acceptable. But I'm waiting for Donny's expression of regret for his welcome of Nugent (or for anything else, for that matter). --Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:17 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
It does seem appropriate to call out the White House on its clear hypocrisy. If you're Samantha Bee and you use that language, Donny wants your show cancelled. If you're Ted Nugent and you use that language, Donny invites you to the White House for a photo under the target of your invective.

Image

Still saying Bee was wrong to use that word, as she's acknowledged. But this White House is in no position to claim the moral high ground. --Bob



Isn't 'whataboutism' one of your favorite words, Bob? And I have zero knowledge about Nugent calling Hillary that word, but did he use it against her (or her daughter) on broadcast television?
"Whataboutism" would be appropriate if I'd said that what Bee did was okay because Nugent did it. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that Donny is a hypocrite because his White House invitation demonstrates that he has no trouble with the word, so he's got no business complaining when someone else uses it.

Nugent publicly called Ms. Clinton a "toxic c___" in 1994, when she was FLOTUS and long before she herself became a candidate for public office. The exact quote was "'You probably can’t use the term "toxic c---" in your magazine, but that’s what she is,' Nugent said of Hillary Clinton. 'Her very existence insults the spirit of individualism in this country. This bitch is nothing but a two-bit whore for Fidel Castro.'"

Again, nothing about this makes Samantha Bee's use of the term acceptable. But I'm waiting for Donny's expression of regret for his welcome of Nugent (or for anything else, for that matter). --Bob


Well, first, you're assuming facts not in evidence again. You have zero knowledge that Trump knew of Nugent's remarks from '94 when he was at the White House, but as usual, have no problem Assuming. So you also assume Obama approves of Jay Z's misogynistic words, and do you await his expression of regret for his welcome of Jay Z, and perhaps a refund of donations from him, etc? I'm guessing not.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:32 pm 
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tlynn78 wrote:
So you also assume Obama approves of Jay Z's misogynistic words, and do you await his expression of regret for his welcome of Jay Z, and perhaps a refund of donations from him, etc? I'm guessing not.
Now THAT'S whataboutism. You're arguing that Donny's hypocrisy is acceptable because President Obama supposedly once did something similar.

And by the way, I have no idea what you're talking about when you refer to Jay Z's misogynistic words. I have seen some stories suggesting that some on the right equate any use of vulgar language on their part with misogyny. Is that what you're talking about?

In any event, President Obama is no longer in office. Donny used the bully pulpit of the White House and he's still in a position to do so. He deserves to be called out for his hypocrisy. --Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:35 pm 
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tlynn78 wrote:
You have zero knowledge that Trump knew of Nugent's remarks from '94 when he was at the White House, but as usual, have no problem Assuming.
Well, any competent White House staff would be well aware of the public statements made by such a prominent invitee, particularly statements so provocative. But that does require a modicum of competence from the Administration, so I guess that's one point for you. Except, of course, that as the boss Donny is ultimately responsible for his staff's performance. --Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:40 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
It does seem appropriate to call out the White House on its clear hypocrisy. If you're Samantha Bee and you use that language, Donny wants your show cancelled. If you're Ted Nugent and you use that language, Donny invites you to the White House for a photo under the target of your invective.

Image

Still saying Bee was wrong to use that word, as she's acknowledged. But this White House is in no position to claim the moral high ground. --Bob
I don't think it's a valid comparison. Trump singled out Samantha Bee because she called his daughter the c-word, not because of her politics.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:42 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
So you also assume Obama approves of Jay Z's misogynistic words, and do you await his expression of regret for his welcome of Jay Z, and perhaps a refund of donations from him, etc? I'm guessing not.
Now THAT'S whataboutism. You're arguing that Donny's hypocrisy is acceptable because President Obama supposedly once did something similar.

And by the way, I have no idea what you're talking about when you refer to Jay Z's misogynistic words. I have seen some stories suggesting that some on the right equate any use of vulgar language on their part with misogyny. Is that what you're talking about?

In any event, President Obama is no longer in office. Donny used the bully pulpit of the White House and he's still in a position to do so. He deserves to be called out for his hypocrisy. --Bob



Oh sweetie, I'm not arguing anything, and certainly not what you contend; just pointing out your own hypocrisy. You monitor everything our current president does and says, and avidly report anything you see as 'wrong' with him, yet I don't recall you doing it with Obama when he was our president.
And, as to you being innocently unaware of Jay Z's misogynistic lyrics, I'll just say, :lol:
P.S. how did you get appointed to be the person who gets to decide what President Trump (or anyone else, for that matter) 'deserves'?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
You have zero knowledge that Trump knew of Nugent's remarks from '94 when he was at the White House, but as usual, have no problem Assuming.
Well, any competent White House staff would be well aware of the public statements made by such a prominent invitee, particularly statements so provocative. But that does require a modicum of competence from the Administration, so I guess that's one point for you. Except, of course, that as the boss Donny is ultimately responsible for his staff's performance. --Bob


"Prominent invitee' and statements over twenty years old? You know these stretches don't actually count as exercise, don't you?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:48 pm 
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tlynn78 wrote:
And, as to you being innocently unaware of Jay Z's misogynistic lyrics, I'll just say, :lol:
And yet you don't actually answer the question. Which is pretty typical for my exchanges with you. When I ask you to support your points, you switch to mockery without providing any actual evidence. --Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:50 pm 
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jarnon wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
It does seem appropriate to call out the White House on its clear hypocrisy. If you're Samantha Bee and you use that language, Donny wants your show cancelled. If you're Ted Nugent and you use that language, Donny invites you to the White House for a photo under the target of your invective.

Image

Still saying Bee was wrong to use that word, as she's acknowledged. But this White House is in no position to claim the moral high ground. --Bob
I don't think it's a valid comparison. Trump singled out Samantha Bee because she called his daughter the c-word, not because of her politics.
But he singled out use of the c-word. He didn't claim that the substance of the criticism was unfair. If he's going to take that position, then he's got some 'splainin' to do with respect to his invitation to Nugent. --Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:50 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
"Whataboutism" would be appropriate if I'd said that what Bee did was okay because Nugent did it. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that Donny is a hypocrite because his White House invitation demonstrates that he has no trouble with the word, so he's got no business complaining when someone else uses it.


Bob79164 wrote:
I deserve to be called out for my hypocrisy.


I fixed it for you, because we all know you are not a liar.


Every instance I recall you pulling your "whataboutism" shtick has been simply calling you out on your hypocrisy in decrying Trump for something when you've been O.K. in the past with Obama or Clinton doing similar, never about someone saying whatever it was was O.K. because those two may have done it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:52 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
"Whataboutism" would be appropriate if I'd said that what Bee did was okay because Nugent did it. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that Donny is a hypocrite because his White House invitation demonstrates that he has no trouble with the word, so he's got no business complaining when someone else uses it.


Bob79164 wrote:
I deserve to be called out for my hypocrisy.


I fixed it for you, because we all know you are not a liar.


Every instance I recall you pulling your "whataboutism" shtick has been simply calling you out on your hypocrisy in decrying Trump for something when you've been O.K. in the past with Obama or Clinton doing similar, never about someone saying whatever it was was O.K. because those two may have done it.
So you're okay with Donny's invitation to Nugent? Or do you agree that he's being his usual hypocritical self? --Bob

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:58 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
And, as to you being innocently unaware of Jay Z's misogynistic lyrics, I'll just say, :lol:
And yet you don't actually answer the question. Which is pretty typical for my exchanges with you. When I ask you to support your points, you switch to mockery without providing any actual evidence. --Bob



Jay-Z reflects on his misogynistic lyric

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:59 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
"Whataboutism" would be appropriate if I'd said that what Bee did was okay because Nugent did it. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that Donny is a hypocrite because his White House invitation demonstrates that he has no trouble with the word, so he's got no business complaining when someone else uses it.


Bob79164 wrote:
I deserve to be called out for my hypocrisy.


I fixed it for you, because we all know you are not a liar.


Every instance I recall you pulling your "whataboutism" shtick has been simply calling you out on your hypocrisy in decrying Trump for something when you've been O.K. in the past with Obama or Clinton doing similar, never about someone saying whatever it was was O.K. because those two may have done it.
So you're okay with Donny's invitation to Nugent? Or do you agree that he's being his usual hypocritical self? --Bob


What I think has nothing to do with your "whataboutism" hypocrisy. Let's address that first. I did not bring up Ted Nugent. You did.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:02 pm 
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Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
And, as to you being innocently unaware of Jay Z's misogynistic lyrics, I'll just say, :lol:
And yet you don't actually answer the question. Which is pretty typical for my exchanges with you. When I ask you to support your points, you switch to mockery without providing any actual evidence. --Bob


Since you prefer to be obtuse, a simple Google search will show you Jay Z is on the list of 'worst offenders' of misogynistic lyrics. You can pretend all you like that you weren't aware of the misogynistic nature of a lot of rap 'music' including his- just don't expect anyone with a brain to believe you. I'm not familiar with most of those publications, but I doubt they're particularly right-leaning. At least some of his 'lyrics' are from 2010, while President Obama was in the White House - not from 20 years prior.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:21 pm 
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tlynn78 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
tlynn78 wrote:
And, as to you being innocently unaware of Jay Z's misogynistic lyrics, I'll just say, :lol:
And yet you don't actually answer the question. Which is pretty typical for my exchanges with you. When I ask you to support your points, you switch to mockery without providing any actual evidence. --Bob


Since you prefer to be obtuse, a simple Google search will show you Jay Z is on the list of 'worst offenders' of misogynistic lyrics. You can pretend all you like that you weren't aware of the misogynistic nature of a lot of rap 'music' including his- just don't expect anyone with a brain to believe you. I'm not familiar with most of those publications, but I doubt they're particularly right-leaning. At least some of his 'lyrics' are from 2010, while President Obama was in the White House - not from 20 years prior.
Have you ever seen me try to play Lyrically Speaking? Please point me to Jay Z lyrics that you contend are misogynistic. --Bob

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