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 Post subject: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:43 pm 
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Geez louise

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:59 pm 
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I think that catcher lost a couple of teeth.

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:04 pm 
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That’s was BS review. Catcher did not have the ball and clearly moved into the path the runner had already committed to take.

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:25 pm 
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Eh. We won. 5.2 hours

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:41 am 
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Lucroy was only one of about 5 players from my fantasy team that got injured over the weekend. It's gonna be a long second half for the Evil Squirrels...

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:52 am 
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I'm playing fantasy baseball for the first time in easily 15 years - a co-worker lost two players in a keeper league, and it was going to be a mess.

I love that it is only National League; that's an easy way to get back into it, by only having to keep up with half as many players.

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:58 pm 
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Lucroy has a broken nose and a concussion. He will see an ENT once the swelling is down.

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:51 pm 
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yipes

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:37 am 
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Yipes, indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:21 pm 
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Marisnick suspended 2 games for Lucroy collision

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Houston Astros outfielder Jake Marisnick was suspended two games on Thursday for his collision with Los Angeles Angels catcher Jonathan Lucroy on Sunday.

Lucroy was hospitalized after suffering a concussion and a broken nose in the collision at home plate. Marisnick was called out for colliding with Lucroy.

"After thoroughly reviewing the play from all angles, I have concluded that Jake's actions warrant discipline," Joe Torre, chief baseball officer for Major League Baseball, said in announcing the suspension. "While I do not believe that Jake intended to injure Jonathan, the contact he initiated in his attempt to score violated Official Baseball Rule 6.01(i), which is designed to protect catchers from precisely this type of collision."

The umpires determined that Marisnick veered out of the baseline and lowered his shoulder to make contact with Lucroy. Marisnick and Lucroy banged heads on the play; the back of Lucroy's head also struck the infield dirt.



https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27169303/marisnick-suspended-2-games-lucroy-collision

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:40 pm 
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bullshit

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:45 pm 
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Let me rephrase that. It's fucking bullshit.

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:57 pm 
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I'm thinking Chirinos should get retroactive player suspensions for the 900 times he's been beaned or hit.

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:58 pm 
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Beebs52 wrote:
Let me rephrase that. It's fucking bullshit.



I agree. When you watch the play Lecroy is in the base path, blocking the plate while waiting for the ball. Jake then cuts inside and AFTER Jake makes his cut inside Lecroy moves inside to catch the ball and apply the tag. Jake did not lower his shoulder to know the ball out or anything. He moved his head further inside to prevent from hitting Lecory (who moved into his path) with his head.

If baseball truly wants to prevent this then the rule should be the catcher can't be in the base path blocking the plate until he has the ball, which would be stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:18 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
If baseball truly wants to prevent this then the rule should be the catcher can't be in the base path blocking the plate until he has the ball, which would be stupid.



The catcher isn't supposed to be blocking off the plate if he doesn't have the ball. I'm pretty sure that was part of the Posey Rule...

lb13

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:37 pm 
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox26h ... han-lucroy

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:48 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
Beebs52 wrote:
Let me rephrase that. It's fucking bullshit.



I agree. When you watch the play Lecroy is in the base path, blocking the plate while waiting for the ball. Jake then cuts inside and AFTER Jake makes his cut inside Lecroy moves inside to catch the ball and apply the tag. Jake did not lower his shoulder to know the ball out or anything. He moved his head further inside to prevent from hitting Lecory (who moved into his path) with his head.

If baseball truly wants to prevent this then the rule should be the catcher can't be in the base path blocking the plate until he has the ball, which would be stupid.


I am interested in this perspective, after I watched a video of the collision. It looked like a textbook example of the rule.

Rule 6.01(i) Collisions at Home Plate
A runner attempting to score may not deviate from his direct pathway to the plate in order to initiate contact with the catcher (or other player covering home plate), or otherwise initiate an
avoidable collision. If, in the judgment of the umpire, a runner attempting to score initiates contact with the catcher (or other player covering home plate) in such a manner, the umpire shall
declare the runner out (regardless of whether the player covering home plate maintains possession of the ball).

Rule 6.01(i)(1) Comment: The failure by the runner to make an effort to touch the plate, the runner’s lowering of the shoulder, or the runner’s pushing through with his hands, elbows or
arms, would support a determination that the runner deviated from the pathway in order to initiate contact with the catcher in violation of Rule 6.01(i), or otherwise initiated a collision that
could have been avoided. A slide shall be deemed appropriate, in the case of a feet first slide, if the runner’s buttocks and legs should hit the ground before contact with the catcher. In the
case of a head first slide, a runner shall be deemed to have slid appropriately if his body should hit the ground before contact with the catcher. If a catcher blocks the pathway of the runner,
the umpire shall not find that the runner initiated an avoidable collision in violation of this Rule 6.01(i)(1).

Runner had a direct path to the outside half of the plate and could have safely slid in an effort to touch the plate. Instead, he deviated to the inside part of the base path, where he could see the catcher awaiting the ball, and then lowered his shoulder.

Catcher was not in the middle of the path, thereby was not blocking the plate. It was avoidable and the kind of unnecessary collision that the rule is designed to prevent.

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:04 pm 
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This is a good video of the collision from Astros own site.

https://www.mlb.com/astros/video/all-so ... ick-lucroy

Freeze the video at 1:13 - 1:14, and you can see how far Marisnick deviated into where Lucroy is, rather than Lucroy moving into his path. [Runner is going going straight down foul line from 1:10-1:12, then sharply deviates well inside the line, taking a huge step inside.]

Going "frame by frame" during those few seconds demonstrates that the runner easily could have stayed on his current course and then slid to touch the outer half of the plate.

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Here's Wylie's kick, it's high, it holds
up there, Rodgers takes the ball at the 30, he's hit and got away,
back up field to the 35, to the 40, he's to the 45, he's to the 50 to
the 45, to the 40, to the 35, to the 20, to the 10, he's all the way
home........[crowd cheering].......HOLY MOLY, MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD DID
THAT PUT 'EM IN THE AISLES.....JOHNNY THE JET RODGERS JUST TORE 'EM
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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:18 pm 
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Appa23 wrote:
This is a good video of the collision from Astros own site.

https://www.mlb.com/astros/video/all-so ... ick-lucroy

Freeze the video at 1:13 - 1:14, and you can see how far Marisnick deviated into where Lucroy is, rather than Lucroy moving into his path. [Runner is going going straight down foul line from 1:10-1:12, then sharply deviates well inside the line, taking a huge step inside.]

Going "frame by frame" during those few seconds demonstrates that the runner easily could have stayed on his current course and then slid to touch the outer half of the plate.
Yes, I think this video is quite clear. Marisnick is running straight down the line until he reaches the dirt cutout. His next step with his left foot is approximately a full foot or more inside the base path. There's no question in my mind that he deviated from his prior path, the deviation caused the collision, and he lowered his shoulder prior to contact. And this is exactly the sort of collision and injury that the rule is designed to prevent.

I think Torre made the right call. --Bob

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:28 pm 
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littlebeast13 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
If baseball truly wants to prevent this then the rule should be the catcher can't be in the base path blocking the plate until he has the ball, which would be stupid.



The catcher isn't supposed to be blocking off the plate if he doesn't have the ball. I'm pretty sure that was part of the Posey Rule...

lb13


Then Marisnek should have been called safe.

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:39 pm 
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BackInTex wrote:
littlebeast13 wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
If baseball truly wants to prevent this then the rule should be the catcher can't be in the base path blocking the plate until he has the ball, which would be stupid.



The catcher isn't supposed to be blocking off the plate if he doesn't have the ball. I'm pretty sure that was part of the Posey Rule...

lb13


Then Marisnek should have been called safe.
Appa23 wrote:
This is a good video of the collision from Astros own site.

https://www.mlb.com/astros/video/all-so ... ick-lucroy

Freeze the video at 1:13 - 1:14, and you can see how far Marisnick deviated into where Lucroy is, rather than Lucroy moving into his path. [Runner is going going straight down foul line from 1:10-1:12, then sharply deviates well inside the line, taking a huge step inside.]

Going "frame by frame" during those few seconds demonstrates that the runner easily could have stayed on his current course and then slid to touch the outer half of the plate.


What you failed to mention about 1:10-1:12 is Lucroy shifting his right foot from slightly from the front of the path to the center of the base path and shifting his body towards the back, sort of a slight juke and then at the same time as Marisnek changes his course Lucroy reverses his juke. The juke is precisely why Marisnek change course.

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:39 pm 
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Having actually watched the play now, I have to side with Torre's ruling. Lucroy was on the inside of the line the entire time, and Marisnick had a wide open path on the outside the entire time. A juke or two doesn't explain why Marisnick was to the left of the baseline in the first place... most plays at home result in the runner having to go to the right of the catcher to score. If Lucroy had been out there, then he should have been knocked into next week without penalty...

Note, I only support the suspension because the rule says so. I am not a fan of the rule itself... mainly because it was only implemented because one of baseball's golden boys got seriously hurt because of a collision. Only THEN did MLB decide to start caring about concussions...

lb13

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:16 pm 
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I'm a fan of the person who made the decision having been a catcher.

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:29 am 
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BackInTex wrote:
BackInTex wrote:
littlebeast13 wrote:


The catcher isn't supposed to be blocking off the plate if he doesn't have the ball. I'm pretty sure that was part of the Posey Rule...

lb13


Then Marisnek should have been called safe.
Appa23 wrote:
This is a good video of the collision from Astros own site.

https://www.mlb.com/astros/video/all-so ... ick-lucroy

Freeze the video at 1:13 - 1:14, and you can see how far Marisnick deviated into where Lucroy is, rather than Lucroy moving into his path. [Runner is going going straight down foul line from 1:10-1:12, then sharply deviates well inside the line, taking a huge step inside.]

Going "frame by frame" during those few seconds demonstrates that the runner easily could have stayed on his current course and then slid to touch the outer half of the plate.
What you failed to mention about 1:10-1:12 is Lucroy shifting his right foot from slightly from the front of the path to the center of the base path and shifting his body towards the back, sort of a slight juke and then at the same time as Marisnek changes his course Lucroy reverses his juke. The juke is precisely why Marisnek change course.
Juke? Watch that part of the video a few seconds longer, from 1:26 - 1:33. There is no "juke." The movement of Lucroy's feet and body that you described was all in tracking the ball. He never looked up to see where the runner was. The outside of the plate was wide open for the runner to slide through, but, watching the catcher, he knew it was gonna be close. He did not know the throw would be off, so he blindsided the catcher and ran through him. I feel the call was appropriate.

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 Post subject: Re: Astros and Angels
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:32 am 
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littlebeast13 wrote:
Having actually watched the play now, I have to side with Torre's ruling. Lucroy was on the inside of the line the entire time, and Marisnick had a wide open path on the outside the entire time. A juke or two doesn't explain why Marisnick was to the left of the baseline in the first place... most plays at home result in the runner having to go to the right of the catcher to score. If Lucroy had been out there, then he should have been knocked into next week without penalty...

Note, I only support the suspension because the rule says so. I am not a fan of the rule itself... mainly because it was only implemented because one of baseball's golden boys got seriously hurt because of a collision. Only THEN did MLB decide to start caring about concussions...

lb13


I think that the mere fact that Bob and LB agree with me on this matter makes it indisputable. :shock:

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Here's Wylie's kick, it's high, it holds
up there, Rodgers takes the ball at the 30, he's hit and got away,
back up field to the 35, to the 40, he's to the 45, he's to the 50 to
the 45, to the 40, to the 35, to the 20, to the 10, he's all the way
home........[crowd cheering].......HOLY MOLY, MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD DID
THAT PUT 'EM IN THE AISLES.....JOHNNY THE JET RODGERS JUST TORE 'EM
LOOSE FROM THEIR SHOES!!!


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