Society is screwed

[flockofseagulls104]

I wasn't asking you, stalker.

And he wasn't talking to you.

And I agree entirely with what he said.

I'd appreciate if you would respond in your own words, because I don't bother to view any of his responses. I have personally canceled him.

[earendel]

Ear:
I'm not sure that it's off-topic. The issue is how much control parents should have over what their children are taught. I agree that this might be an extreme example, but it is a consideration.

Seriously, ear, how much support do you think teaching the world is flat is going to get from anybody. I am just saying let's be real. Kroxquo has brought up an issue that is real and has persuasive arguments on both sides, if not more than 2. No one will come up with a persuasive argument for teaching the world is flat.[/quote]
As I said, it's an extreme; how about teaching the theory of evolution?

In my observations, the activists on the left seem to have a lot more control over the media and flow of information. I see evidence of that every day. It might be more difficult for you to see that.

Perhaps. As I see it the "left" is more the middle. YMMV.

I have only been 'less than civil' to those who have been that way to me first. I have tried several times, both on this bored and in private messages, to reason with some of these individuals, but it never takes.
Take a look at my 'Perspectives' posts. I went into them trying very hard to keep it civil. Look at what it devolved into. I suspect these individuals would react the same way in whatever set of circumstances they are in.
Sorry, it is what it is, but I hope you can agree that, though I disagree with you, I have always been civil to you.

I understand that it may be difficult to take the high road and not respond tit-for-tat. Frustration can do that. Yes, our conversations have been civil and I appreciate it.

Overreaching can be done on any issue. On any side of it. My point is that the schools are only caretakers for children, and that the parents are ultimately responsible for their children, so the parents, as a group, should have the ultimate say on any issue.
And the ultimate question is: Who decides what is for the 'greater good of the society'? That is a philosophical point that has been debated for centuries by many of the brightest minds of their times. I believe our Founding Fathers believed that it is not 'The Government', it is the 'People'. They believed so strongly in that idea that they wrote a document called 'The Constitution of the United States, to make it clear what the federal government can do, and what they can't. It seems to me that in the present, many people, most of whom describe themselves as democrats, believe it is the government that should decide this question, and from Washington DC. I, and many other people, fervently disagree with that and are doing our best to resist that.

It is certainly true that the question of who decides the greater good is highly debatable. And I agree that, in the main, parents have the greater responsibility for the development of their children. However there may be times when what the parent may think is best is not. Moreover, if I may dare to refer to something that bob##### (I think) said, those vocal parents who want to protect their own children may be harming someone else's child.

[Beebs52]

But, see, asking teachers not to tell is deliberately keeping it from parents. And why is everyone here assuming the parents are going to go ballistic? Most parents would appreciate the info. And, no, I don't think a child wanting that info to not be reported means there is abuse.

Why would a child ask a teacher not to tell, then? Or, to put it another way, why would it matter to the child if his or her (see?) parents knew what pronouns he or she preferred?

Because sometimes kids are just generally arbitrary in their decisions. Sometimes a cigar is just not an exploding one. Realize strange metaphor, but whatever.

[flockofseagulls104]

Ear:

However there may be times when what the parent may think is best is not. Moreover, if I may dare to refer to something that bob##### (I think) said, those vocal parents who want to protect their own children may be harming someone else's child.

Yes, there well may be times when these things happen. As much as the people on the extreme left or extreme right might wish it, we do not, and never will, live in a utopia.
These things, when they happen, will be exceptions and must be treated that way. It always brings me back to an incident that took place when I was in Jr High School.

One day, two kids got into a fist fight in the lunchroom during lunch period. Our Vice Principal decided the best way to prevent it from happening again was to ban any talking during lunch period for the rest of the year. He had the power to do it, and that's how he used his power. Instead of isolating the exception and handling that, he imposed restrictions on EVERYBODY. So all of the rest of us, who had done nothing wrong, had to eat in silence the rest of the year. I guess he thought it was for the good of the school.

We have many people who have been given all sorts of power that think in that way. Don't let the exceptions make the rules.

[jarnon]

The FBI has had the actual laptop (not a bootleg copy of its hard drive) for a while now. If they find something worth prosecuting, they will,

Same advice for those on the left taping their watches for indictments of the Trump family.

The last thing anyone wants is a repeat of the 2016 Comey debacle.

[flockofseagulls104]

The FBI has had the actual laptop (not a bootleg copy of its hard drive) for a while now. If they find something worth prosecuting, they will,

Same advice for those on the left taping their watches for indictments of the Trump family.

The last thing anyone wants is a repeat of the 2016 Comey debacle.

Wrong thread. But you would think so. But politics trumps (excuse the reference) everything in Washington. We the people used to be able to rely on a free press to spur them to pursue justice. But no more. The press is now an appendage of Washington. And those that aren't are scorned, ridiculed and discredited. It's the game.

[silverscreenselect]

The FBI has had the actual laptop (not a bootleg copy of its hard drive) for a while now. If they find something worth prosecuting, they will,

Same advice for those on the left taping their watches for indictments of the Trump family.

The last thing anyone wants is a repeat of the 2016 Comey debacle.

Wrong thread. But you would think so. But politics trumps (excuse the reference) everything in Washington. We the people used to be able to rely on a free press to spur them to pursue justice. But no more. The press is now an appendage of Washington. And those that aren't are scorned, ridiculed and discredited. It's the game.

In the meantime, Flock is clutching his wristbands, drooling over a hard drive of questionable authenticity that has unquestionably been altered on numerous occasions since the original was seized by the FBI. And a story that was reported extensively two weeks ago.

[flockofseagulls104]

My home state, New Jersey, is apparently proving that they want to sexualize first graders.

https://nypost.com/2022/04/08/nj-kids-t ... urriculum/

Here's the referenced curriculum BEFORE THE END OF 2nd GRADE

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dge2a30qi05b ... tracking=1

[Bob78164]

My home state, New Jersey, is apparently proving that they want to sexualize first graders.

https://nypost.com/2022/04/08/nj-kids-t ... urriculum/

Here's the referenced curriculum BEFORE THE END OF 2nd GRADE

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dge2a30qi05b ... tracking=1

I have personal experience with these pedagogical issues. You have no idea what you're talking about. I really wish these lessons were common 20 years ago.

Nothing about this curriculum sexualizes anyone. It helps kids feel normal when they otherwise might not. Resisting this curriculum is actively harmful to children who don't behave in gender-stereotyped ways because they pick up, quite quickly, on the notion that they are abnormal. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

My home state, New Jersey, is apparently proving that they want to sexualize first graders.

https://nypost.com/2022/04/08/nj-kids-t ... urriculum/

Here's the referenced curriculum BEFORE THE END OF 2nd GRADE

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dge2a30qi05b ... tracking=1

I have personal experience with these pedagogical issues. You have no idea what you're talking about. I really wish these lessons were common 20 years ago.

Nothing about this curriculum sexualizes anyone. It helps kids feel normal when they otherwise might not. Resisting this curriculum is actively harmful to children who don't behave in gender-stereotyped ways because they pick up, quite quickly, on the notion that they are abnormal. --Bob/

Of course bob. It goes without saying that I have no idea what I'm talking about. Why do you waste keystrokes in saying that when it's completely understood in anything I write, say or think? And we all know you have personal experience in everything that overrides anything anyone else might think about any issue. We all know that, so you don't need to be redundant about it.

And that, in itself, bob, is the problem with you. You think you know everything. But, bob, let me clue you in: YOU DON"T!

[Bob78164]

My home state, New Jersey, is apparently proving that they want to sexualize first graders.

https://nypost.com/2022/04/08/nj-kids-t ... urriculum/

Here's the referenced curriculum BEFORE THE END OF 2nd GRADE

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dge2a30qi05b ... tracking=1

I have personal experience with these pedagogical issues. You have no idea what you're talking about. I really wish these lessons were common 20 years ago.

Nothing about this curriculum sexualizes anyone. It helps kids feel normal when they otherwise might not. Resisting this curriculum is actively harmful to children who don't behave in gender-stereotyped ways because they pick up, quite quickly, on the notion that they are abnormal. --Bob

Of course bob. It goes without saying that I have no idea what I'm talking about. Why do you waste keystrokes in saying that when it's completely understood in anything I write, say or think? And we all know you have personal experience in everything that overrides anything anyone else might think about any issue. We all know that, so you don't need to be redundant about it.

And that, in itself, bob, is the problem with you. You think you know everything. But, bob, let me clue you in: YOU DON"T!

In this case, the evidence is in your own post. If you can read that curriculum and claim that it sexualizes anyone, then you obviously don't know what the flock you're talking about. And if (as I suspect) you didn't bother reading the curriculum, then you just as obviously don't know what the flock you're talking about.

How many conversations have you had with young children who were worried they were "weird" because they preferred behavior that doesn't conform to traditional gender stereotypes? Or who felt shame or embarrassment because of that behavior? --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

I have personal experience with these pedagogical issues. You have no idea what you're talking about. I really wish these lessons were common 20 years ago.

Nothing about this curriculum sexualizes anyone. It helps kids feel normal when they otherwise might not. Resisting this curriculum is actively harmful to children who don't behave in gender-stereotyped ways because they pick up, quite quickly, on the notion that they are abnormal. --Bob

Of course bob. It goes without saying that I have no idea what I'm talking about. Why do you waste keystrokes in saying that when it's completely understood in anything I write, say or think? And we all know you have personal experience in everything that overrides anything anyone else might think about any issue. We all know that, so you don't need to be redundant about it.

And that, in itself, bob, is the problem with you. You think you know everything. But, bob, let me clue you in: YOU DON"T!

In this case, the evidence is in your own post. If you can read that curriculum and claim that it sexualizes anyone, then you obviously don't know what the flock you're talking about. And if (as I suspect) you didn't bother reading the curriculum, then you just as obviously don't know what the flock you're talking about.

How many conversations have you had with young children who were worried they were "weird" because they preferred behavior that doesn't conform to traditional gender stereotypes? Or who felt shame or embarrassment because of that behavior? --Bob

bob, bob, bob. The whole point here is not what you think is right, or the school board thinks is right, or the state thinks is right. IT'S WHAT THE CHILD'S PARENT THINKS IS RIGHT! If you think that it is the school's responsibility to teach 'gender' related subjects, which are highly controversial outside of your echo chamber bubble, then by all means start your own schools. Then you can train all the students that have parents that want to raise their kids with this training to your heart's content. But until your party breaks with the teachers unions and allows vouchers for parents to choose what schools they want to send their children to with taxpayer money, don't impose your all seeing, all knowing agendas on everybody else. Many, and I would venture MOST, of us DON'T WANT IT. See Florida.

PS. Talk about not reading stuff. I told you you don't have to keep repeating I don't know what I'm talking about. I know that. You've made it crystal clear that nobody knows what they're talking about but you. I think it's because you don't know that you don't know what you don't know.

[Bob78164]

bob, bob, bob. The whole point here is not what you think is right, or the school board thinks is right, or the state thinks is right. IT'S WHAT THE CHILD'S PARENT THINKS IS RIGHT! If you think that it is the school's responsibility to teach 'gender' related subjects, which are highly controversial outside of your echo chamber bubble, then by all means start your own schools. Then you can train all the students that have parents that want to raise their kids with this training to your heart's content. But until your party breaks with the teachers unions and allows vouchers for parents to choose what schools they want to send their children to with taxpayer money, don't impose your all seeing, all knowing agendas on everybody else. Many, and I would venture MOST, of us DON'T WANT IT. See Florida.

The whole point is for any kid in this boat to live in a society where his or her peers have been taught that there is nothing wrong, or embarrassing, or shameful, about any of these behaviors. And the way to achieve that society is to teach it universally.

So no, I will not agree to put a kid in this boat in some kind of a ghetto of like-minded folks. These kids -- ESPECIALLY these kids -- need to know and understand that they are fully accepted by all of society, or at least by all of civil society, for who they are. And I will continue to respond to attempts to retain the right to teach bigotry in the name of parental rights with outright hostility. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

bob, bob, bob. The whole point here is not what you think is right, or the school board thinks is right, or the state thinks is right. IT'S WHAT THE CHILD'S PARENT THINKS IS RIGHT! If you think that it is the school's responsibility to teach 'gender' related subjects, which are highly controversial outside of your echo chamber bubble, then by all means start your own schools. Then you can train all the students that have parents that want to raise their kids with this training to your heart's content. But until your party breaks with the teachers unions and allows vouchers for parents to choose what schools they want to send their children to with taxpayer money, don't impose your all seeing, all knowing agendas on everybody else. Many, and I would venture MOST, of us DON'T WANT IT. See Florida.

The whole point is for any kid in this boat to live in a society where his or her peers have been taught that there is nothing wrong, or embarrassing, or shameful, about any of these behaviors. And the way to achieve that society is to teach it universally.

So no, I will not agree to put a kid in this boat in some kind of a ghetto of like-minded folks. These kids -- ESPECIALLY these kids -- need to know and understand that they are fully accepted by all of society, or at least by all of civil society, for who they are. And I will continue to respond to attempts to retain the right to teach bigotry in the name of parental rights with outright hostility. --Bob

That is also assumed. You are outright hostile to anyone who doesn't agree with you. Do you honestly think that scares or convinces anybody?

Take your woke utopia and go into a corner and do it yourself. If it has any benefit, then you will grow. But it is obvious that many, many people don't want what you are peddling. So your kneejerk response is to assume they are all radical child abusers, label and defame them as such and ignore them and do what you want anyway by imposing it on everyone. The only problem is that people are now noticing.

PS. I am old enough to remember that during the 1960's many people like you thought it was utopia to start a commune. So they did. How many of them worked out, bob? People are different. You don't know what's good for everybody, bob, no matter how passionately you think you do. They do not all think like you do, bob. And thank God for that.

[BackInTex]

bob, bob, bob. The whole point here is not what you think is right, or the school board thinks is right, or the state thinks is right. IT'S WHAT THE CHILD'S PARENT THINKS IS RIGHT! If you think that it is the school's responsibility to teach 'gender' related subjects, which are highly controversial outside of your echo chamber bubble, then by all means start your own schools. Then you can train all the students that have parents that want to raise their kids with this training to your heart's content. But until your party breaks with the teachers unions and allows vouchers for parents to choose what schools they want to send their children to with taxpayer money, don't impose your all seeing, all knowing agendas on everybody else. Many, and I would venture MOST, of us DON'T WANT IT. See Florida.

The whole point is for any kid in this boat to live in a society where his or her peers have been taught that there is nothing wrong, or embarrassing, or shameful, about any of these behaviors. And the way to achieve that society is to teach it universally.

So no, I will not agree to put a kid in this boat in some kind of a ghetto of like-minded folks. These kids -- ESPECIALLY these kids -- need to know and understand that they are fully accepted by all of society, or at least by all of civil society, for who they are. And I will continue to respond to attempts to retain the right to teach bigotry in the name of parental rights with outright hostility. --Bob

That is also assumed. You are outright hostile to anyone who doesn't agree with you. Do you honestly think that scares or convinces anybody?

Take your woke utopia and go into a corner and do it yourself. If it has any benefit, then you will grow. But it is obvious that many, many people don't want what you are peddling. So your kneejerk response is to assume they are all radical child abusers, label and defame them as such and ignore them and do what you want anyway by imposing it on everyone. The only problem is that people are now noticing.

PS. I am old enough to remember that during the 1960's many people like you thought it was utopia to start a commune. So they did. How many of them worked out, bob? People are different. You don't know what's good for everybody, bob, no matter how passionately you think you do. They do not all think like you do, bob. And thank God for that.

I'm sure the parents of pedophiles feel much the same way. Or parents of kids who "love" animals. Pick your perversion. There is a line somewhere for everyone. Our only disagreement is where that line is. Bob calls folks on the other side of whatever line he's on bigots. Doesn't matter the line. There are several. You're not on his side, you're a bigot. Such powerful arguments.

[tlynn78]

The whole point is for any kid in this boat to live in a society where his or her peers have been taught that there is nothing wrong, or embarrassing, or shameful, about any of these behaviors. And the way to achieve that society is to teach it universally.

So no, I will not agree to put a kid in this boat in some kind of a ghetto of like-minded folks. These kids -- ESPECIALLY these kids -- need to know and understand that they are fully accepted by all of society, or at least by all of civil society, for who they are. And I will continue to respond to attempts to retain the right to teach bigotry in the name of parental rights with outright hostility. --Bob

That is also assumed. You are outright hostile to anyone who doesn't agree with you. Do you honestly think that scares or convinces anybody?

Take your woke utopia and go into a corner and do it yourself. If it has any benefit, then you will grow. But it is obvious that many, many people don't want what you are peddling. So your kneejerk response is to assume they are all radical child abusers, label and defame them as such and ignore them and do what you want anyway by imposing it on everyone. The only problem is that people are now noticing.

PS. I am old enough to remember that during the 1960's many people like you thought it was utopia to start a commune. So they did. How many of them worked out, bob? People are different. You don't know what's good for everybody, bob, no matter how passionately you think you do. They do not all think like you do, bob. And thank God for that.

I'm sure the parents of pedophiles feel much the same way. Or parents of kids who "love" animals. Pick your perversion. There is a line somewhere for everyone. Our only disagreement is where that line is. Bob calls folks on the other side of whatever line he's on bigots. Doesn't matter the line. There are several. You're not on his side, you're a bigot. Such powerful arguments.

Not to mention, persuasive. <snort>

[Bob78164]

I'm sure the parents of pedophiles feel much the same way. Or parents of kids who "love" animals. Pick your perversion. There is a line somewhere for everyone. Our only disagreement is where that line is. Bob calls folks on the other side of whatever line he's on bigots. Doesn't matter the line. There are several. You're not on his side, you're a bigot. Such powerful arguments.

So you're calling the behavior of kids who don't conform to your notions of appropriate gender behavior a "perversion" comparable to pedophilia, and you're wondering why I insist on calling you a bigot.

Just keep airing those views and we'll see whose concept of our society proves more persuasive in the end. Particularly as those kids grow up to become voters. --Bob

[BackInTex]

I'm sure the parents of pedophiles feel much the same way. Or parents of kids who "love" animals. Pick your perversion. There is a line somewhere for everyone. Our only disagreement is where that line is. Bob calls folks on the other side of whatever line he's on bigots. Doesn't matter the line. There are several. You're not on his side, you're a bigot. Such powerful arguments.

So you're calling the behavior of kids who don't conform to your notions of appropriate gender behavior a "perversion" comparable to pedophilia, and you're wondering why I insist on calling you a bigot.

Just keep airing those views and we'll see whose concept of our society proves more persuasive in the end. Particularly as those kids grow up to become voters. --Bob

I didn't say it was comparable. I said there is a line for everyone. But if they are like you, they'd probably call you a bigot.

[Beebs52]

I'm sure the parents of pedophiles feel much the same way. Or parents of kids who "love" animals. Pick your perversion. There is a line somewhere for everyone. Our only disagreement is where that line is. Bob calls folks on the other side of whatever line he's on bigots. Doesn't matter the line. There are several. You're not on his side, you're a bigot. Such powerful arguments.

So you're calling the behavior of kids who don't conform to your notions of appropriate gender behavior a "perversion" comparable to pedophilia, and you're wondering why I insist on calling you a bigot.

Just keep airing those views and we'll see whose concept of our society proves more persuasive in the end. Particularly as those kids grow up to become voters. --Bob

I didn't say it was comparable. I said there is a line for everyone. But if they are like you, they'd probably call you a bigot.

Funny, that.

[tlynn78]

So you're calling the behavior of kids who don't conform to your notions of appropriate gender behavior a "perversion" comparable to pedophilia, and you're wondering why I insist on calling you a bigot.

Just keep airing those views and we'll see whose concept of our society proves more persuasive in the end. Particularly as those kids grow up to become voters. --Bob

I didn't say it was comparable. I said there is a line for everyone. But if they are like you, they'd probably call you a bigot.

Funny, that.

C'mon, man. At least the tobacco industry isn't "..immune to prostitutes being sued." Per our Prez. Bless his heart.

[flockofseagulls104]

These a KIDS for Chissakes! Some of them will be well behaved, some will be brats, some will be criers, some will be clowns, some will be smart, some not so, some will be nose pickers, some will be thumb suckers, some will pay attention, some will be in their own world. For God's Sake, let them be kids.
Teach them how to read, teach them how to write and prepare them to be ready to learn more complicated stuff. Leave them out of the social engineering shit for awhile, can ya? Let their parents teach them how to be a human being before you start to groom them, please?

[Bob78164]

These a KIDS for Chissakes! Some of them will be well behaved, some will be brats, some will be criers, some will be clowns, some will be smart, some not so, some will be nose pickers, some will be thumb suckers, some will pay attention, some will be in their own world. For God's Sake, let them be kids.
Teach them how to read, teach them how to write and prepare them to be ready to learn more complicated stuff. Leave them out of the social engineering shit for awhile, can ya? Let their parents teach them how to be a human being before you start to groom them, please?

It's your belief that it's possible to "groom" kids to be gender-non-conforming that makes you an ignorant bigot. Teaching this subject matter simply helps kids feel at ease with themselves and really helps their mental health.

So no, I won't ask support our schools remaining silent while you're free to groom kids to be bigots. And that's exactly what you're asking for. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

These a KIDS for Chissakes! Some of them will be well behaved, some will be brats, some will be criers, some will be clowns, some will be smart, some not so, some will be nose pickers, some will be thumb suckers, some will pay attention, some will be in their own world. For God's Sake, let them be kids.
Teach them how to read, teach them how to write and prepare them to be ready to learn more complicated stuff. Leave them out of the social engineering shit for awhile, can ya? Let their parents teach them how to be a human being before you start to groom them, please?

It's your belief that it's possible to "groom" kids to be gender-non-conforming that makes you an ignorant bigot. Teaching this subject matter simply helps kids feel at ease with themselves and really helps their mental health.

So no, I won't ask support our schools remaining silent while you're free to groom kids to be bigots. And that's exactly what you're asking for. --Bob

bob, go take your fake self-righteous outrage and stuff it up your tuchus.
No, it will not be a better world if you and your ilk keep adding your half baked PC crap to the public school curriculum. They don't do it anywhere else in the world, at least not any place we need to emulate. And for all my adult life, every election we hear how American kids are not getting educated as well as other countries, and how we have to do something about it. So let's start doing something about educating our kids and not feeding them with anybody's agenda, either right or left. Schools are for educating kids, not for instructing them about what gender they are or should be or could be.

[Bob78164]

These a KIDS for Chissakes! Some of them will be well behaved, some will be brats, some will be criers, some will be clowns, some will be smart, some not so, some will be nose pickers, some will be thumb suckers, some will pay attention, some will be in their own world. For God's Sake, let them be kids.
Teach them how to read, teach them how to write and prepare them to be ready to learn more complicated stuff. Leave them out of the social engineering shit for awhile, can ya? Let their parents teach them how to be a human being before you start to groom them, please?

It's your belief that it's possible to "groom" kids to be gender-non-conforming that makes you an ignorant bigot. Teaching this subject matter simply helps kids feel at ease with themselves and really helps their mental health.

So no, I won't ask support our schools remaining silent while you're free to groom kids to be bigots. And that's exactly what you're asking for. --Bob

bob, go take your fake self-righteous outrage and stuff it up your tuchus.
No, it will not be a better world if you and your ilk keep adding your half baked PC crap to the public school curriculum. They don't do it anywhere else in the world, at least not any place we need to emulate. And for all my adult life, every election we hear how American kids are not getting educated as well as other countries, and how we have to do something about it. So let's start doing something about educating our kids and not feeding them with anybody's agenda, either right or left. Schools are for educating kids, not for instructing them about what gender they are or should be or could be.

Speaking of not knowing what you don't know, you have no fucking idea what life experiences lead me to my sense of outrage at your ignorance and bigotry. So go fuck yourself. --Bob

[tlynn78]

It's your belief that it's possible to "groom" kids to be gender-non-conforming that makes you an ignorant bigot. Teaching this subject matter simply helps kids feel at ease with themselves and really helps their mental health.

So no, I won't ask support our schools remaining silent while you're free to groom kids to be bigots. And that's exactly what you're asking for. --Bob

bob, go take your fake self-righteous outrage and stuff it up your tuchus.
No, it will not be a better world if you and your ilk keep adding your half baked PC crap to the public school curriculum. They don't do it anywhere else in the world, at least not any place we need to emulate. And for all my adult life, every election we hear how American kids are not getting educated as well as other countries, and how we have to do something about it. So let's start doing something about educating our kids and not feeding them with anybody's agenda, either right or left. Schools are for educating kids, not for instructing them about what gender they are or should be or could be.

Speaking of not knowing what you don't know, you have no fucking idea what life experiences lead me to my sense of outrage at your ignorance and bigotry. So go fuck yourself. --Bob

Super classy, bobbo.