Loans

[BackInTex]

Unfortunately there isn't allocation from here or there. It's just THERE.
Plus why? It's just stupid.

I guess I have misunderstood. I thought we had over 1000 military bases all over the world where we are playing offense rather than defense (I always struggled to reconcile the name Department of Defense with the idea that we are on foreign lands).

I thought we could close up a few of them, especially the ones where no one asked us to be, and bring those folks home to build roads or bridges or schools, and use the money we save to fund domestic programs.

Notice I have not actively tried to justify the loan repayment program, only the part where the interest rates don't ruin people's lives. I don't have enough information yet to have a valid opinion on the $10K and $20K part of the plan.

In my opinion interest rates on student loans should be in the 2.0-2.75% range. There is little risk on payback as the debt can’t be extinguish via bankruptcy.

[BackInTex]

Matt Gaetz: 476k PPP loan forgiven.
There ya go.

From what I understand, the PPP program was intended to be a grant program at the onset should the recipient complete the program requirements which essentially meant they had to keep employees employed through the pandemic. Folks taking out student loans had no agreement for forgiveness, and there is was no performance required of the student loan forgiveness. Just the hope they’d vote Democrat.

So there ya go.

[BackInTex]

Matt Gaetz: 476k PPP loan forgiven.
There ya go.

From what I understand, the PPP program was intended to be a grant program at the onset should the recipient complete the program requirements which essentially meant they had to keep employees employed through the pandemic. Folks taking out student loans had no agreement for forgiveness, and there was no performance required of the student loan forgiveness. Just the hope they’d vote Democrat.

So there ya go.

[Bob78164]

I'm in favor of the change that will prevent interest from being so high. I understand the banks have to make a little something, to be worth them lending, but I have read a ton of accounts today from people who have been paying for years, and can't make a dent because of the interest.

College costs are too high, for sure. I feel no guilt about it, as I am paid $3500 per course by the state of North Carolina, and a ton of our teachers are in that same category, so we're not the ones running up the costs.

I don't begrudge someone else getting a hand on their loan when I didn't, and I presume once we see the full plan, we'll see where the money is coming from to pay for this. Our national budget is really big, so if we reallocate money from one place to another, that's fine with me. Particularly from some places where I wish we weren't spending so much.

If inflation is the concern, then as Paul Krugman points out, the relevant number is how much extra spending money this will pump into the economy. The answer turns out to be a rounding error. Total collections for federal student loans are approximately $70 billion per year. Even if all of those repayments were to disappear because of forgiveness (and the effect won't be close to that), our GDP is approximately $25 trillion. This simply won't inject enough additional spending power into the economy to affect prices.

As for comparisons to the past which others have made in this thread, those are inappropriate. Levels of student loan debt are much, much higher now, in comparison to available opportunities, then they were in the past. Personally, I want the next generation to have the same shot at owning a home as I had, and right now that's not remotely close to the case. --Bob

[BackInTex]

I'm in favor of the change that will prevent interest from being so high. I understand the banks have to make a little something, to be worth them lending, but I have read a ton of accounts today from people who have been paying for years, and can't make a dent because of the interest.

College costs are too high, for sure. I feel no guilt about it, as I am paid $3500 per course by the state of North Carolina, and a ton of our teachers are in that same category, so we're not the ones running up the costs.

I don't begrudge someone else getting a hand on their loan when I didn't, and I presume once we see the full plan, we'll see where the money is coming from to pay for this. Our national budget is really big, so if we reallocate money from one place to another, that's fine with me. Particularly from some places where I wish we weren't spending so much.

If inflation is the concern, then as Paul Krugman points out, the relevant number is how much extra spending money this will pump into the economy. The answer turns out to be a rounding error. Total collections for federal student loans are approximately $70 billion per year. Even if all of those repayments were to disappear because of forgiveness (and the effect won't be close to that), our GDP is approximately $25 trillion. This simply won't inject enough additional spending power into the economy to affect prices.

As for comparisons to the past which others have made in this thread, those are inappropriate. Levels of student loan debt are much, much higher now, in comparison to available opportunities, then they were in the past. Personally, I want the next generation to have the same shot at owning a home as I had, and right now that's not remotely close to the case. --Bob

But just those that went to college, and spent too much, right? I get it. No homes for plumbers or tire shop guys, at least first.

[Bob78164]

I'm in favor of the change that will prevent interest from being so high. I understand the banks have to make a little something, to be worth them lending, but I have read a ton of accounts today from people who have been paying for years, and can't make a dent because of the interest.

College costs are too high, for sure. I feel no guilt about it, as I am paid $3500 per course by the state of North Carolina, and a ton of our teachers are in that same category, so we're not the ones running up the costs.

I don't begrudge someone else getting a hand on their loan when I didn't, and I presume once we see the full plan, we'll see where the money is coming from to pay for this. Our national budget is really big, so if we reallocate money from one place to another, that's fine with me. Particularly from some places where I wish we weren't spending so much.

If inflation is the concern, then as Paul Krugman points out, the relevant number is how much extra spending money this will pump into the economy. The answer turns out to be a rounding error. Total collections for federal student loans are approximately $70 billion per year. Even if all of those repayments were to disappear because of forgiveness (and the effect won't be close to that), our GDP is approximately $25 trillion. This simply won't inject enough additional spending power into the economy to affect prices.

As for comparisons to the past which others have made in this thread, those are inappropriate. Levels of student loan debt are much, much higher now, in comparison to available opportunities, then they were in the past. Personally, I want the next generation to have the same shot at owning a home as I had, and right now that's not remotely close to the case. --Bob

But just those that went to college, and spent too much, right? I get it. No homes for plumbers or tire shop guys, at least first.

What makes you think they didn't go to college? Or have kids who went to college? --Bob

[BackInTex]

If inflation is the concern, then as Paul Krugman points out, the relevant number is how much extra spending money this will pump into the economy. The answer turns out to be a rounding error. Total collections for federal student loans are approximately $70 billion per year. Even if all of those repayments were to disappear because of forgiveness (and the effect won't be close to that), our GDP is approximately $25 trillion. This simply won't inject enough additional spending power into the economy to affect prices.

As for comparisons to the past which others have made in this thread, those are inappropriate. Levels of student loan debt are much, much higher now, in comparison to available opportunities, then they were in the past. Personally, I want the next generation to have the same shot at owning a home as I had, and right now that's not remotely close to the case. --Bob

But just those that went to college, and spent too much, right? I get it. No homes for plumbers or tire shop guys, at least first.

What makes you think they didn't go to college? Or have kids who went to college? --Bob

Because I know them Bob. I know linemen, welders, mechanics, truckers. Men and women who didn't spend a day in college, paying their own way in life. Apparently you don't know any. You seem to only know 'victims'. We obviously hang around different crowds. You hang around victims and people who want to take from others.

[Bob78164]

But just those that went to college, and spent too much, right? I get it. No homes for plumbers or tire shop guys, at least first.

What makes you think they didn't go to college? Or have kids who went to college? --Bob

Because I know them Bob. I know linemen, welders, mechanics, truckers. Men and women who didn't spend a day in college, paying their own way in life. Apparently you don't know any. You seem to only know 'victims'. We obviously hang around different crowds. You hang around victims and people who want to take from others.

You're mistaken. I rarely hang around billionaires.

Again, I don't recall this level of concern when my taxes went up so that Donny's could go down. I guess it's okay to take if you're rich enough.

And I'm pretty sure that the people you'd like to characterize as "victims" would fiercely resent that characterization. --Bob

[BackInTex]

What makes you think they didn't go to college? Or have kids who went to college? --Bob

Because I know them Bob. I know linemen, welders, mechanics, truckers. Men and women who didn't spend a day in college, paying their own way in life. Apparently you don't know any. You seem to only know 'victims'. We obviously hang around different crowds. You hang around victims and people who want to take from others.

You're mistaken. I rarely hang around billionaires.

Again, I don't recall this level of concern when my taxes went up so that Donny's could go down. I guess it's okay to take if you're rich enough.

And I'm pretty sure that the people you'd like to characterize as "victims" would fiercely resent that characterization. --Bob

This is why we can't have real conversations in this country (or on this board). We are talking about blue collar, trade, non-college educated people and you call them billionaires. You are focused on what 614 people in the United States get (not that they are getting anything, you still have not provided the answer to my question about what they are "getting" that others are not) an not the least concerned about what 118 million who never went to college are getting taken from them.

I'm not characterizing anyone as victims. They are the ones self identifying themselves as victims. Just using their preferred noun. Something you should appreciate.

[Spock]

Because I know them Bob. I know linemen, welders, mechanics, truckers. Men and women who didn't spend a day in college, paying their own way in life. Apparently you don't know any. You seem to only know 'victims'. We obviously hang around different crowds. You hang around victims and people who want to take from others.

You're mistaken. I rarely hang around billionaires.

Again, I don't recall this level of concern when my taxes went up so that Donny's could go down. I guess it's okay to take if you're rich enough.

And I'm pretty sure that the people you'd like to characterize as "victims" would fiercely resent that characterization. --Bob

This is why we can't have real conversations in this country (or on this board). We are talking about blue collar, trade, non-college educated people and you call them billionaires. You are focused on what 614 people in the United States get (not that they are getting anything, you still have not provided the answer to my question about what they are "getting" that others are not) an not the least concerned about what 118 million who never went to college are getting taken from them.

I'm not characterizing anyone as victims. They are the ones self identifying themselves as victims. Just using their preferred noun. Something you should appreciate.

Another facet to this thing that pisses off the Trades guys as much as anything is that they know a lot of student loan money gets spent on alcohol and spring break trips and now those asshole college kids who think they are better than the Trades guys won't have to pay for those trips.

[silverscreenselect]

Another facet to this thing that pisses off the Trades guys as much as anything is that they know a lot of student loan money gets spent on alcohol and spring break trips and now those asshole college kids who think they are better than the Trades guys won't have to pay for those trips.

According to the University of Minnesota's website, the estimated total cost for an in-state student for the 2022-23 school year taking 13 credits a semester (Twin Cities) is $31,348 for those living on-campus and $23,110 for those living at home. For students in the School of Management or College of Science and Engineering, add an additional $2,500 in tuition and fees. Out-of-state tuition and fees would add another $20,000.

The University of North Dakota is somewhat cheaper. Tuition and fees for in-state students are $10,276 (as opposed to $16,108 for Minnesota). Other costs would presumably be somewhat less as well. Still, $10,000 won't go very far.

[silverscreenselect]

[BackInTex]

Jesus didn’t take their lunch or even part of it to give to the other people. Those that brought their lunch not only were able to keep all of the lunch they brought they also received from the bounty Jesus provided. Unlike the man you worship, Jesus’ actions had no downside.

[Bob78164]

Jesus didn’t take their lunch or even part of it to give to the other people. Those that brought their lunch not only were able to keep all of the lunch they brought they also received from the bounty Jesus provided. Unlike the man you worship, Jesus’ actions had no downside.

What downside do you see? No one is increasing taxes to pay for this.

Although I'd be happy to see the billionaires' tax cut repealed -- I'm fine with paying more taxes to help fund student loan relief, but I'm not remotely fine with paying more taxes (as I have been) to partially fund the budget-busting billionaires' tax cut. --Bob

[earendel]

Jesus didn’t take their lunch or even part of it to give to the other people. Those that brought their lunch not only were able to keep all of the lunch they brought they also received from the bounty Jesus provided. Unlike the man you worship, Jesus’ actions had no downside.

Not to be pedantic, but if you read the accounts of the feeding of the 5000, nowhere does it say that anyone had any food other than the "lad" with five loaves and two fish. It's hardly a miracle if, after Jesus takes the loaves and fish and blesses it, everyone opens up their picnic baskets.

[Bob78164]

"Not every program has to be for everybody. People with apartments pay for first-time homeowner benefits. Young people contribute to Medicare for our seniors. People who take public transit pay for car infrastructure.

"Maybe student loan forgiveness doesn’t impact you. That doesn't make it bad. I am sure there are certainly other things that student loan borrowers' taxes pay for that you benefit from. We can do good things and reject the scarcity
mindset that says doing something good for someone else comes at the cost of something for ourselves.

"An example: If a person is blessed enough to be in a position to have paid off their loans, maybe they have a home now and benefited from first-time homeowners programs that people crushed by student loans help subsidize when they aren't able to buy a home because of enormous student debt. It all comes around. It's okay. We can support things we won't directly benefit from."

(Typos corrected.) This says it better than I could have. --Bob

[Bob Juch]

"Not every program has to be for everybody. People with apartments pay for first-time homeowner benefits. Young people contribute to Medicare for our seniors. People who take public transit pay for car infrastructure.

"Maybe student loan forgiveness doesn’t impact you. That doesn't make it bad. I am sure there are certainly other things that student loan borrowers' taxes pay for that you benefit from. We can do good things and reject the scarcity
mindset that says doing something good for someone else comes at the cost of something for ourselves.

"An example: If a person is blessed enough to be in a position to have paid off their loans, maybe they have a home now and benefited from first-time homeowners programs that people crushed by student loans help subsidize when they aren't able to buy a home because of enormous student debt. It all comes around. It's okay. We can support things we won't directly benefit from."

(Typos corrected.) This says it better than I could have. --Bob

Who did say it?

[Bob78164]

"Not every program has to be for everybody. People with apartments pay for first-time homeowner benefits. Young people contribute to Medicare for our seniors. People who take public transit pay for car infrastructure.

"Maybe student loan forgiveness doesn’t impact you. That doesn't make it bad. I am sure there are certainly other things that student loan borrowers' taxes pay for that you benefit from. We can do good things and reject the scarcity mindset that says doing something good for someone else comes at the cost of something for ourselves.

"An example: If a person is blessed enough to be in a position to have paid off their loans, maybe they have a home now and benefited from first-time homeowners programs that people crushed by student loans help subsidize when they aren't able to buy a home because of enormous student debt. It all comes around. It's okay. We can support things we won't directly benefit from."

(Typos corrected.) This says it better than I could have. --Bob

Who did say it?

It’s easy enough to ascertain, but I’m not sure why the source of these thoughts (rather than their content) matters. —Bob

[Bob78164]

Because I know them Bob. I know linemen, welders, mechanics, truckers. Men and women who didn't spend a day in college, paying their own way in life. Apparently you don't know any. You seem to only know 'victims'. We obviously hang around different crowds. You hang around victims and people who want to take from others.

You're mistaken. I rarely hang around billionaires.

Again, I don't recall this level of concern when my taxes went up so that Donny's could go down. I guess it's okay to take if you're rich enough.

And I'm pretty sure that the people you'd like to characterize as "victims" would fiercely resent that characterization. --Bob

This is why we can't have real conversations in this country (or on this board). We are talking about blue collar, trade, non-college educated people and you call them billionaires. You are focused on what 614 people in the United States get (not that they are getting anything, you still have not provided the answer to my question about what they are "getting" that others are not) an not the least concerned about what 118 million who never went to college are getting taken from them.

I'm not characterizing anyone as victims. They are the ones self identifying themselves as victims. Just using their preferred noun. Something you should appreciate.

Fine. Let's talk about blue-collar workers:

"If you want to haul freight for a living, you’ll need a commercial driver’s license, which means you’ll need training, which means you’ll need school. This schooling can cost thousands of dollars, and students can pay their tuition with federal student loans. So, too, can people who need training to work as medical technicians or home care workers or physical therapists or restaurant workers, among many other trades and professions.

"Millions of people with blue-collar jobs owe thousands of dollars in federal student loans, and they may not have the income needed to pay them off. Biden’s plan helps them as much or more than a graduate of a four-year college with debt on the ledger. It also helps the millions of Americans who took out loans, attended college, but for one reason or another could not complete their degrees and are in the worst of all financial worlds as a result."

So let's see how many of them complain about getting a break. --Bob

[Bob Juch]

"Not every program has to be for everybody. People with apartments pay for first-time homeowner benefits. Young people contribute to Medicare for our seniors. People who take public transit pay for car infrastructure.

"Maybe student loan forgiveness doesn’t impact you. That doesn't make it bad. I am sure there are certainly other things that student loan borrowers' taxes pay for that you benefit from. We can do good things and reject the scarcity mindset that says doing something good for someone else comes at the cost of something for ourselves.

"An example: If a person is blessed enough to be in a position to have paid off their loans, maybe they have a home now and benefited from first-time homeowners programs that people crushed by student loans help subsidize when they aren't able to buy a home because of enormous student debt. It all comes around. It's okay. We can support things we won't directly benefit from."

(Typos corrected.) This says it better than I could have. --Bob

Who did say it?

It’s easy enough to ascertain, but I’m not sure why the source of these thoughts (rather than their content) matters. —Bob

I couldn't find anything with Google.

[jarnon]

Who did say it?

It’s easy enough to ascertain, but I’m not sure why the source of these thoughts (rather than their content) matters. —Bob

I couldn't find anything with Google.

Bob, your search skills are slipping. AOC on Instagram and FB.

[Bob Juch]

It’s easy enough to ascertain, but I’m not sure why the source of these thoughts (rather than their content) matters. —Bob

I couldn't find anything with Google.

Bob, your search skills are slipping. AOC on Instagram and FB.

That's the number one hit now, but at the time it had not been indexed.

[SportsFan68]

Jesus didn’t take their lunch or even part of it to give to the other people. Those that brought their lunch not only were able to keep all of the lunch they brought they also received from the bounty Jesus provided. Unlike the man you worship, Jesus’ actions had no downside.

Not to be pedantic, but if you read the accounts of the feeding of the 5000, nowhere does it say that anyone had any food other than the "lad" with five loaves and two fish. It's hardly a miracle if, after Jesus takes the loaves and fish and blesses it, everyone opens up their picnic baskets.

This is what I was taught in Sunday School. Some in the multitude brought food, some didn't. SundaySchoolTeacher said that the miracle was that everybody who brought food shared. A very devout woman, SST believed that Jesus inspired that sort of behavior.

[silverscreenselect]

SundaySchoolTeacher said that the miracle was that everybody who brought food shared. A very devout woman, SST believed that Jesus inspired that sort of behavior.

Obviously, SST didn't spend much time around modern-day Republicans/

[BackInTex]

Not to be pedantic, but if you read the accounts of the feeding of the 5000, nowhere does it say that anyone had any food other than the "lad" with five loaves and two fish. It's hardly a miracle if, after Jesus takes the loaves and fish and blesses it, everyone opens up their picnic baskets.

This is what I was taught in Sunday School. Some in the multitude brought food, some didn't. SundaySchoolTeacher said that the miracle was that everybody who brought food shared. A very devout woman, SST believed that Jesus inspired that sort of behavior.

Are you saying that SST was denying the miracle of Jesus feeding the multitudes from only 5 loaves of bread and two fish? SST was comparing it to Woodstock? It is one of only two miracles told in all four Gospels. And reading all four, it is pretty clear that the only food there were the loaves and fishes the boy referenced in John had.