The Essential Church

[BackInTex]

Mrs BiT and I watched this on Amazon last night. I thought it a very well put together documentary on the overreach of government during the Covid-19 pandemic. It raised a lot of good points. I doubt it would change anyone's mind here on the various governments' actions taken to supress these churches, or churches across the nation. I would hope it would but the blind bias towards governement knows best exhibited during that time has not changed among those that fully supported the lockdown.

Thinks brought up the didn't make sense then, to me, that were brought up:

1) allowing the protests and riots but not other outside gatherings, esspecially outside worship
2) opening casinos but not churches
3) classifying deaths with Covid as deaths from Covid. One analogy I thought of that seems to make sense. When someone had a comorbidity such as extreme obesity, yet died with Covid, they were classified as a Covid death. Yet, had that same person, jumped in a lake and swam 1/4 mile, experience a heart attack, then drowned, the cause of death is either drowning or heart attack (depending on the coroner and perhaps the amount of water in the lung), but the cause of the heart attack, exercise, is not the cause of death.

Churches profiled in the documentary are:

1) John McArthur's Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, Ca where they were taking the CA government to court, and the coverrnment finally "dropped" the case, paid Grace Community's legal fees, and snuck away into the darknesss lest their lies be exposed in open court.

2) James Coates' GraceLife Church in Edmonton, AB. James was arrested and sent to prison. The government actually put fenscing up around the church to preven parishoners from gathering.

3) Tim Stevens' Fairview Baptist Church in Calgary. Tim was also arrested sent to jail by the Canadian authorities.

There was a lot of discussion and analysis of Romans 12:1-2. And the story told of Grace Community's elders meeting prior to their decision to open the church up for worship. This was in August. As a timeline reference, Texas had "allowed" churches to open up in late May or early June. My church had been having full worship and Sunday school for over two months by then.

[Ritterskoop]

My assumption was that some policymakers believed that if we gathered, unprotected and unmasked, we would be spreading a deadly disease when that wasn't necessary. And that may have been true, for some short period of time.

It fairly quickly became clear that we had overcorrected, but again, I don't mind, when people are trying to navigate a line between safety and liberty. That's a 400-year-old political discussion, how much liberty we want to give up in exchange for safety. It still plays out every time we go to the airport.

I appreciated churches who held services outdoors, as it was a lot of effort. I also appreciated that people wanted church more than ever.

We did hear about a whole choir that died, early on, because they had no protection, and because singing and speaking have us with our mouths open and more receptive to airborne stuff. But if you know it's more likely you'll get sick or die, and you choose it, I'm fine with letting folks keep doing what they do.

I never felt like this was a persecution of churches/religious gatherings, because concerts and other large gatherings were out, but I could see why folks might feel that way.

[Weyoun]

Only the most thin skinned would’ve thought this was an attack on Christianity, since so many other institutions were implicated. For example, our local casino was closed. As were gyms and schools and businesses.

It was pretty obviously a good faith effort to contain a virus that could kill all sorts of folks. I do think mistakes were made, but we were in uncharted territory.

Most Christians, as they believe that we’re supposed to protect life, were okay with that.

Only a few wackos that didn’t trust the government to begin with felt otherwise. The same fringe makes a big stink about abortion, but again doesn’t care about what happens to people when they’re alive.

These are folks who place their own interpretation of liberty above the kingdom of heaven. And the same folks who will vote with their tongues drooling Donald Trump - even though he okayed the shutdowns.

[Weyoun]

By the way, I do agree that the riots and protest were dangerous from a public health standpoint. Obviously more difficult to contain since they were riots.

But you’re a person who bashed those protests at the time. Maybe you should take a step back and ask yourself, do you feel those protests were dangerous from a public health standpoint? If so, then certainly church gatherings would have been. Or, are you just mad about the double standard, and not what made sense from a POLICY standpoint

[Weyoun]

By the way, if the documentary made that analogy about an obese person dying of Covid, then it’s a stupid documentary. We have never made obesity a cause of death.

[BackInTex]

By the way, if the documentary made that analogy about an obese person dying of Covid, then it’s a stupid documentary. We have never made obesity a cause of death.

Nowhere above did I indicate that obesity was a cause, or should have been the cause of death. I clearly wrote "excercise" as the cause (of the heart attack or drowning). Exercise, like Covid, was simply the tripping mechanism, not the cause. But , if Covid is a legitimatte cause, then so should be exercise.

[tlynn78]

By the way, if the documentary made that analogy about an obese person dying of Covid, then it’s a stupid documentary. We have never made obesity a cause of death.

Nowhere above did I indicate that obesity was a cause, or should have been the cause of death. I clearly wrote "excercise" as the cause (of the heart attack or drowning). Exercise, like Covid, was simply the tripping mechanism, not the cause. But , if Covid is a legitimatte cause, then so should be exercise.

Facts, schmacts, c'mon, man.

[Weyoun]

By the way, if the documentary made that analogy about an obese person dying of Covid, then it’s a stupid documentary. We have never made obesity a cause of death.

Nowhere above did I indicate that obesity was a cause, or should have been the cause of death. I clearly wrote "excercise" as the cause (of the heart attack or drowning). Exercise, like Covid, was simply the tripping mechanism, not the cause. But , if Covid is a legitimatte cause, then so should be exercise.

Nowhere did you indicate that you know what you were talking about either. I mentioned obesity because you relayed that this stupid documentary you saw used it as an analogy.

As someone who has actually filled out a death certificate, let me explain how it happens. You’re given a piece of paper and you are asked to write the primary cause of death. Then you write contributory factors.

For the case above, I probably would say the person who was minding their own business, and they then developed respiratory distress, died of COVID-19, as opposed to heart disease or parenchymal lung disease. Those would be a secondary factors that did not help.

I don’t think that’s an extraordinary thing. It was pretty clear that this virus, which is a medical condition, pushed the person over the edge.

On the other hand, the fat person who had the heart attack while exercising, didn’t die of exercise. It was a matter of time given underlying coronary disease. We don’t write exercise as a diagnosis. He died of CAD.

I don’t think that’s a linguistic failure. Exercise is not a medical condition, while COVID-19 is.

It’s funny how medical personnel find all this to be completely normal, but folks like you, who don’t do it, and don’t see the range of sick patients that we do, think there’s something dark about calling COVID-19 the primary reason why someone who had some medical problems suddenly has white out on both of their chest x-ray and asked to be placed on a ventilator.

But then you don’t know what you’re talking about, do you? You’re an ass with facts so it’s hilarious that you think the problem is that I’m not providing a facts.

[flockofseagulls104]

By the way, if the documentary made that analogy about an obese person dying of Covid, then it’s a stupid documentary. We have never made obesity a cause of death.

Nowhere above did I indicate that obesity was a cause, or should have been the cause of death. I clearly wrote "excercise" as the cause (of the heart attack or drowning). Exercise, like Covid, was simply the tripping mechanism, not the cause. But , if Covid is a legitimatte cause, then so should be exercise.

Nowhere did you indicate that you know what you were talking about either. I mentioned obesity because you relayed that this stupid documentary you saw used it as an analogy.

As someone who has actually filled out a death certificate, let me explain how it happens. You’re given a piece of paper and you are asked to write the primary cause of death. Then you write contributory factors.

For the case above, I probably would say the person who was minding their own business, and they then developed respiratory distress, died of COVID-19, as opposed to heart disease or parenchymal lung disease. Those would be a secondary factors that did not help.

I don’t think that’s an extraordinary thing. It was pretty clear that this virus, which is a medical condition, pushed the person over the edge.

On the other hand, the fat person who had the heart attack while exercising, didn’t die of exercise. It was a matter of time given underlying coronary disease. We don’t write exercise as a diagnosis. He died of CAD.

I don’t think that’s a linguistic failure. Exercise is not a medical condition, while COVID-19 is.

It’s funny how medical personnel find all this to be completely normal, but folks like you, who don’t do it, and don’t see the range of sick patients that we do, think there’s something dark about calling COVID-19 the primary reason why someone who had some medical problems suddenly has white out on both of their chest x-ray and asked to be placed on a ventilator.

But then you don’t know what you’re talking about, do you? You’re an ass with facts so it’s hilarious that you think the problem is that I’m not providing a facts.

Take a deep breath, doc, and chill out. We don't want someone to have to write TDS on yours.

[tlynn78]

Nowhere above did I indicate that obesity was a cause, or should have been the cause of death. I clearly wrote "excercise" as the cause (of the heart attack or drowning). Exercise, like Covid, was simply the tripping mechanism, not the cause. But , if Covid is a legitimatte cause, then so should be exercise.

Nowhere did you indicate that you know what you were talking about either. I mentioned obesity because you relayed that this stupid documentary you saw used it as an analogy.

As someone who has actually filled out a death certificate, let me explain how it happens. You’re given a piece of paper and you are asked to write the primary cause of death. Then you write contributory factors.

For the case above, I probably would say the person who was minding their own business, and they then developed respiratory distress, died of COVID-19, as opposed to heart disease or parenchymal lung disease. Those would be a secondary factors that did not help.

I don’t think that’s an extraordinary thing. It was pretty clear that this virus, which is a medical condition, pushed the person over the edge.

On the other hand, the fat person who had the heart attack while exercising, didn’t die of exercise. It was a matter of time given underlying coronary disease. We don’t write exercise as a diagnosis. He died of CAD.

I don’t think that’s a linguistic failure. Exercise is not a medical condition, while COVID-19 is.

It’s funny how medical personnel find all this to be completely normal, but folks like you, who don’t do it, and don’t see the range of sick patients that we do, think there’s something dark about calling COVID-19 the primary reason why someone who had some medical problems suddenly has white out on both of their chest x-ray and asked to be placed on a ventilator.

But then you don’t know what you’re talking about, do you? You’re an ass with facts so it’s hilarious that you think the problem is that I’m not providing a facts.

Take a deep breath, doc, and chill out. We don't want someone to have to write TDS on yours.

No shit. Biden is pissing all over Israel, but these morons: "..oRanGe maN bAd.."

[Weyoun]

How is Biden pissing on Israel?

He’s correct that a humanitarian disaster may actually work against Israel’s interests.

You’re too worked up with bloodlust against brown people, and fueled by a apocalyptic view of the universe, to see that.

Hamas had no strategy other than to trigger a crisis that made Israel look horrible, on the cusp of a piece deal with Saudi Arabia. Their strategy appeared to be working since Israel decided that decapitating Hamas is worth the public relations hit by creating a humanitarian disaster.

Personally, I think they’re playing into a trap, laid by Hamas, and backing off may be a very good idea. I’m sure you think I’m an anti-Semite for that reason, even though I think that actually may be in the long-term interest of Israel.

[Weyoun]

Nowhere above did I indicate that obesity was a cause, or should have been the cause of death. I clearly wrote "excercise" as the cause (of the heart attack or drowning). Exercise, like Covid, was simply the tripping mechanism, not the cause. But , if Covid is a legitimatte cause, then so should be exercise.

Nowhere did you indicate that you know what you were talking about either. I mentioned obesity because you relayed that this stupid documentary you saw used it as an analogy.

As someone who has actually filled out a death certificate, let me explain how it happens. You’re given a piece of paper and you are asked to write the primary cause of death. Then you write contributory factors.

For the case above, I probably would say the person who was minding their own business, and they then developed respiratory distress, died of COVID-19, as opposed to heart disease or parenchymal lung disease. Those would be a secondary factors that did not help.

I don’t think that’s an extraordinary thing. It was pretty clear that this virus, which is a medical condition, pushed the person over the edge.

On the other hand, the fat person who had the heart attack while exercising, didn’t die of exercise. It was a matter of time given underlying coronary disease. We don’t write exercise as a diagnosis. He died of CAD.

I don’t think that’s a linguistic failure. Exercise is not a medical condition, while COVID-19 is.

It’s funny how medical personnel find all this to be completely normal, but folks like you, who don’t do it, and don’t see the range of sick patients that we do, think there’s something dark about calling COVID-19 the primary reason why someone who had some medical problems suddenly has white out on both of their chest x-ray and asked to be placed on a ventilator.

But then you don’t know what you’re talking about, do you? You’re an ass with facts so it’s hilarious that you think the problem is that I’m not providing a facts.

Take a deep breath, doc, and chill out. We don't want someone to have to write TDS on yours.

Again, no legitimate response. You are full of sound and fury, signifying bullshit.

[Beebs52]

WTF?
"How is Biden pissing on Israel?

He’s correct that a humanitarian disaster may actually work against Israel’s interests.

You’re too worked up with bloodlust against brown people, and fueled by a apocalyptic view of the universe, to see that."
Brown people? What?
Tell me again who started all the massacre?
I think a lot of folks over there are brownish or not.
Are you just...I give up.

[tlynn78]

WTF?
"How is Biden pissing on Israel?

He’s correct that a humanitarian disaster may actually work against Israel’s interests.

You’re too worked up with bloodlust against brown people, and fueled by a apocalyptic view of the universe, to see that."
Brown people? What?
Tell me again who started all the massacre?
I think a lot of folks over there are brownish or not.
Are you just...I give up.

He is, indeed, just...

[flockofseagulls104]

"How is Biden pissing on Israel?"

I think we're getting threads mixed up.

I said in another thread that after a show of initial support for Israel, the biden regime, through Blinken, declared a list of 5 NOs and 3 MUSTs on Israel, that, if they abide by them, ties their hands in defending their country and their future for themselves. Meanwhile, biden releases billions of dollars more to Iran. That is, in doc's words, not mine, pissing on Israel. Did they tell us what to do in response to 9/11? Did anyone tell us what we should do after Pearl Harbor? We occupied Germany and Japan for many years, and they are now our allies. Who are we to tell Israel what to do to defend their nation and people? Especially the biden regime.

[tlynn78]

"How is Biden pissing on Israel?"

I think we're getting threads mixed up.

I said in another thread that after a show of initial support for Israel, the biden regime, through Blinken, declared a list of 5 NOs and 3 MUSTs on Israel, that, if they abide by them, ties their hands in defending their country and their future for themselves. Meanwhile, biden releases billions of dollars more to Iran. That is, in doc's words, not mine, pissing on Israel. Did they tell us what to do in response to 9/11? Did anyone tell us what we should do after Pearl Harbor? We occupied Germany and Japan for many years, and they are now our allies. Who are we to tell Israel what to do to defend their nation and people? Especially the biden regime.

That was directed at me, as I initially made the Biden comment - I just didn't felt compelled to respond to his deliberate idiocy.