My Rant About Olympic "Achievement"

Message

PlacentiaSoccerMom · #76 Post by **PlacentiaSoccerMom** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:07 pm

My friend Sylvia has been sending out emails about Kevin. The family is just excited that he was able to go and compete and that they know somebody who has put in so much work to be able to compete at such an elite level.

The medals are just icing on the whole experience.

dimmzy · #77 Post by **dimmzy** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:14 pm

Does the Dimzy approach mean that everyone who ever sat in the Millionaire hot seat but did NOT win a million dollars should throw themselves off the top of a tall building?

That's an interesting question. I guess I have more respect for those who try and fail...

I could have walked away with $8,000 but I said I would rather try at $16,000 and LOSE, which I did than quit at $8g. I would rather SWING than BUNT.

Gymnastics has always been special to me and the experiences I respect most are those in which people strive their hardest for the glory of "winning."

SHUN FUJIMOTO in 1976 competed with a BROKEN LEG to give Japan the gold. He wouldn't have been taking photos and waving at everyone just before his big routines.

MARY LOU RETTON in 1984 had a clutch performance and DELIVERED.

KERRI STRUG had one last chance in 1996 and again, she didn't quit.

That's the tradition I'm missing here. That's all.

TheConfessor · #78 Post by **TheConfessor** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:17 pm

dimmzy wrote:Since Kevin had NOT been a visible leader on the US Men's Team in the past, it seemed they voted him captain BECAUSE he was Chinese and would be returning to his homeland... It was a nice thing to do.

Kevin Tan was born in Fremont, California, in the United States. (His father was born in Taiwan.) I don't think he was "returning" anywhere.

dimmzy · #79 Post by **dimmzy** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:18 pm

"We?" "Us?" I had no idea you were on the U.S. men's gymnastics team. Congratulations! Sorry about your teammate who let you down.

You should have seen me in my clutch performance on the 400 IM relay against France.

Actually, I was just using the NBC vernacular when I used "us" and "we."

mellytu74 · #80 Post by **mellytu74** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:23 pm

From the San Jose Mercury News:

Tan's teammates say they couldn't have done it without him. As captain of the team, the Penn State assistant coach has had a calming influence.

"He's the guy you want when things get intense," said alternate David Durante, a Stanford graduate. "He brings a level head to the competition."

Horton and Spring are talented, spirited gymnasts who admittedly are high-strung at times. "Kevin balances me out," Spring said.

Added Joseph Hagarty, looking at Horton and Spring: "I go to Kevin to get some quiet time away from those two"

The former Penn State All-American will have to work his magic from the sideline as the individual competition concludes this week. Tan just missed advancing to the rings final by placing ninth in Saturday's qualifying round. The top eight advanced. Tan scored 15.725 points, .025 of a point short of qualifying."

From Me:

Does leadership always have to be visible to those of us who don't see the day-to-day workings of something?

Edited to say: I am NOT busting on dimmzy with this question.

I just think it's an interesting question about sports in general.

You always hear that some athlete is a leader or somebody isn't cut out to be a clubhouse leader. That sort of stuff.

It always fascinates me.

DevilKitty100 · #81 Post by **DevilKitty100** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:24 pm

sunflower wrote:
ulysses5019 wrote:This is some thread. I have been around team sports for the better part of my life. No one feels worse than the athlete who screws up. But his or her teammates know that it could just have well been them. I cannot recall ever seeing someone at SC berate a teammate because they missed a free throw or threw an interception to end a game and a chance to win. People have lousy swims or a bad day on the golf course. It happens. If the athlete didn't try or spent the night partying then that's a different matter. But teammates always support one another. that is the essence of a team.
I'm not picking on Uly specifically by using this quote to respond to. I just wanted to respond to this type of message, and I was too lazy to go back to other pages! (At least I'm honest)

I have to say to everyone who gave other examples, this is the Olympics. It's not a little league game or a college basketball game or even a major league football game. It is a (potentially) once in a lifetime opportunity, where you have one chance (in most sports) to compete and show your stuff. One chance to represent your country and try to win a medal. It's not a season where one game or one shot or one whatever is not the end all be all. In the Olympics, it is just that. These are supposed to be the most elite athletes in the world!! It's not your local "everyone plays" little league team where it's all about having fun and doing your best, then eating orange slices.

I agree that the screw up should've been called out. I also agree that they did well in spite of losing their two stars. But the guy who screwed up didn't do a good job, so I don't think anyone needed to say he did!

I think the difference is that Dimzy kind of wanted his, um......man lines, re-arranged for failing to deliver.

I really would be interested in hearing what degree of public castigation would have made her happy. Shunned? Flogged? Excommunicated? Disowned by his parents? Laughed at by small children? His dog refusing to walk with him in public? Just what? And how much of it?

MarleysGh0st · #82 Post by **MarleysGh0st** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:28 pm

It's so refreshing not being the curmudgeon for once!

There have even been some WWTBAM references posted as bait, which I haven't nibbled at!

silvercamaro · #83 Post by **silvercamaro** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:36 pm

dimmzy wrote:
That's an interesting question. I guess I have more respect for those who try and fail...

I could have walked away with $8,000 but I said I would rather try at $16,000 and LOSE, which I did than quit at $8g. I would rather SWING than BUNT.

Gymnastics has always been special to me and the experiences I respect most are those in which people strive their hardest for the glory of "winning."

Exactly. I have no doubt that the gymnast was swinging for the fence. He may have been determined to provide more amplitude, elevation and speed than he'd ever managed before -- and that may have thrown off his timing just enough to provide unforeseen difficulties with his routine. He swung, and he didn't exactly strike out, but he didn't get the home run.

Nobody is saying that he delivered a great performance in that routine. Nobody is downgrading those other magical Olympic moments you mentioned. The thing is, though, that I believe that the vast majority of Olympic athletes in all sports are giving their all in the attempt to deliver one more.

Beebs52 · #84 Post by **Beebs52** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:37 pm

dimmzy wrote:
Does the Dimzy approach mean that everyone who ever sat in the Millionaire hot seat but did NOT win a million dollars should throw themselves off the top of a tall building?
That's an interesting question. I guess I have more respect for those who try and fail...

I could have walked away with $8,000 but I said I would rather try at $16,000 and LOSE, which I did than quit at $8g. I would rather SWING than BUNT.

Gymnastics has always been special to me and the experiences I respect most are those in which people strive their hardest for the glory of "winning."

SHUN FUJIMOTO in 1976 competed with a BROKEN LEG to give Japan the gold. He wouldn't have been taking photos and waving at everyone just before his big routines.

MARY LOU RETTON in 1984 had a clutch performance and DELIVERED.

KERRI STRUG had one last chance in 1996 and again, she didn't quit.

That's the tradition I'm missing here. That's all.

Are you saying that the gymnast in question didn't "try"? But still failed? Where you inside his head during the performance?

Are you saying the guy quit? Mind you, I did not see the performance, so I'm assuming he completed the performance and didn't just walk out and into the hallway and leave before it was done.

Your statements right here contradict your original rant. You're mad because he did poorly, not that he didn't try.

Why would you reaching for $16,000 and blowing it engender any more sympathy or excitement your viewing than insisting you WIN the mill? If YOU didn't win the mill, you lost.
Like the guy who didn't win the gold.

Just a comparison. Your last few statements were murky.

dimmzy · #85 Post by **dimmzy** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:07 pm

Your statements right here contradict your original rant. You're mad because he did poorly, not that he didn't try.

It's not that he (and at least one other) performed difficult moves poorly, it's that they let nerves get to them and lost very valuable points on simple moves. Then, IMHO, they were praised for it.

In any case, I hope they CONTINUE to exceed everyone's expectations. I hope they bring home lots of medals.

It's exciting that the bored is less than six degrees from Kevin Tan.

-- dimmzy, who will now quietly return to her lurking life

kayrharris · #86 Post by **kayrharris** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:11 pm

Boy howdy, I missed all the excitement today.

T_Bone0806 · #87 Post by **T_Bone0806** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:30 pm

Scott Norwood wrote:
NellyLunatic1980 wrote:
dimmzy wrote:C'mon, I live outside Buffalo. Nobody told Steve Norwood HE did a "good job" when he missed that Super Bowl field goal ...
Uh-oh. I think you just woke the Merry Man.

I just wish TBone hadn't stolen my alarm clock....

C'mere, Scotty boy, I wanna show you something....right over there by that bubbling pot of tar...

Actually, Norwood was the whipping boy for missing in a situation he never should've been in. Levy was outcoached by Parcells, plain and simple. Ball control by the Giants killed the score-at-will Bills.

dimmzy · #88 Post by **dimmzy** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:48 pm

I really would be interested in hearing what degree of public castigation would have made her happy. Shunned? Flogged? Excommunicated? Disowned by his parents? Laughed at by small children? His dog refusing to walk with him in public? Just what? And how much of it?

Here's what I wanted to hear:

NBC: Joe (to Joe Hagerty, who STEPPED OUT OF BOUNDS twice):

"Joe, you are usually a clutch perfomer and yet you made a rookie mistake. Was it nerves or a loss of concentration?"

JOE: "The team needed me and I let them down."

NBC to KEVIN: "You're the team captain and a coach yourself who everyday works with youngsters on how to deal with nerves in competition. What happened? If you had performed just an average routine, you could have kept within distance of the Japanese."

KEVIN: "I know. I tell my team every day to not let rookie mistakes keep them from performing at our best. Yet I know I probably cost our team a silver medal because if I had performed as I know I could have, the momentum probably would have helped Raj and Sasha tremendously and we were very close. I am grateful that my mistake didn't cost us the bronze and I am determined to not let stupid mistakes hurt us in the future."

That's all. He may have been thinking that, but too bad NBC didn't question him on it ...

BackInTex · #89 Post by **BackInTex** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:12 pm

dimmzy wrote:
I really would be interested in hearing what degree of public castigation would have made her happy. Shunned? Flogged? Excommunicated? Disowned by his parents? Laughed at by small children? His dog refusing to walk with him in public? Just what? And how much of it?
Here's what I wanted to hear:

NBC: Joe (to Joe Hagerty, who STEPPED OUT OF BOUNDS twice):

"Joe, you are usually a clutch perfomer and yet you made a rookie mistake. Was it nerves or a loss of concentration?"

JOE: "The team needed me and I let them down."

NBC to KEVIN: "You're the team captain and a coach yourself who everyday works with youngsters on how to deal with nerves in competition. What happened? If you had performed just an average routine, you could have kept within distance of the Japanese."

KEVIN: "I know. I tell my team every day to not let rookie mistakes keep them from performing at our best. Yet I know I probably cost our team a silver medal because if I had performed as I know I could have, the momentum probably would have helped Raj and Sasha tremendously and we were very close. I am grateful that my mistake didn't cost us the bronze and I am determined to not let stupid mistakes hurt us in the future."

That's all. He may have been thinking that, but too bad NBC didn't question him on it ...

Rookie mistake?

Maybe performing the wrong routine or leaving out an element is a rookie mistake but not landing a manuver that get executed perfectly only 90% of the time is not a rookie mistake but simply missing on the odds.

An ice skater missing a single toe loop is a rookie mistake but missing a triple Lutz is not.

DevilKitty100 · #90 Post by **DevilKitty100** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:31 pm

dimmzy wrote:
I really would be interested in hearing what degree of public castigation would have made her happy. Shunned? Flogged? Excommunicated? Disowned by his parents? Laughed at by small children? His dog refusing to walk with him in public? Just what? And how much of it?
Here's what I wanted to hear:

NBC: Joe (to Joe Hagerty, who STEPPED OUT OF BOUNDS twice):

"Joe, you are usually a clutch perfomer and yet you made a rookie mistake. Was it nerves or a loss of concentration?"

JOE: "The team needed me and I let them down."

NBC to KEVIN: "You're the team captain and a coach yourself who everyday works with youngsters on how to deal with nerves in competition. What happened? If you had performed just an average routine, you could have kept within distance of the Japanese."

KEVIN: "I know. I tell my team every day to not let rookie mistakes keep them from performing at our best. Yet I know I probably cost our team a silver medal because if I had performed as I know I could have, the momentum probably would have helped Raj and Sasha tremendously and we were very close. I am grateful that my mistake didn't cost us the bronze and I am determined to not let stupid mistakes hurt us in the future."

That's all. He may have been thinking that, but too bad NBC didn't question him on it ...

Somehow I don't think it would have been too great a leap of faith to assume those thoughts of disappointment were running through just about everyone's mind, but I still don't understand where public emphasis of the shortcomings would have benefited the individual or the team. Negative reinforcement isn't.

This situation reminds me of the story of someone trying to train a cockroach. The trainer told the cockroach that if he didn't run fast enough he'd pull two of his legs off. Sure enough after losing his two front legs the cockroach still couldn't run fast enough to please the coach. Once again, the coach threatened the cockroach that if he didn't run faster he'd lose two more legs. Sure enough the cockroach still didn't run fast enough so off went two more legs. The coach warned the cockroach that if he didn't perform this time he'd remove the last two legs. And sure enough again, the cockroach couldn't move fast enough on two legs so the coach yanked off his last legs and told the cockroach to run as fast as he could. The cockroach did not move. Damn, says the coach. I didn't know pulling off all his legs would make him go deaf, too.

None of those young men on the US team needed to have their legs pulled off one by one to satisfy anyone's thirst for retribution.......including yours

Maybe the news folks got this one right.

SportsFan68 · #91 Post by **SportsFan68** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:49 pm

Winning isn't everything. If winning is everything, then everything else is nothing. Winning a bronze medal is huge, just like winning out over 28 other teams to get to the Super Bowl is huge. All y'all make fun of us for losing to what's-their-names by such a big score but where was your team that year?

The only objections I'll have about the medal-winning this year will be the cheating it took to get some of them, just like I objected to Floyd Landis cheating, and Marion Jones. When I get a magic wand, that's the first thing I'll do -- stop the cheating in sports.

tlynn78 · #92 Post by **tlynn78** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:55 pm

When I get a magic wand, that's the first thing I'll do -- stop the cheating in sports.

Then will you shrink my butt?

t.

dimmzy · #93 Post by **dimmzy** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:59 pm

Somehow I don't think it would have been too great a leap of faith to assume those thoughts of disappointment were running through just about everyone's mind, but I still don't understand where public emphasis of the shortcomings would have benefited the individual or the team. Negative reinforcement isn't.

Still think the question should have been asked.

How people deal with disappointment tells more about them than how they deal with victory.

TheConfessor · #94 Post by **TheConfessor** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:10 pm

dimmzy wrote:
Somehow I don't think it would have been too great a leap of faith to assume those thoughts of disappointment were running through just about everyone's mind, but I still don't understand where public emphasis of the shortcomings would have benefited the individual or the team. Negative reinforcement isn't.
Still think the question should have been asked.

How people deal with disappointment tells more about them than how they deal with victory.

Maybe so. Case in point: your disappointment that the question wasn't asked and that the team felt good about its performance.

DevilKitty100 · #95 Post by **DevilKitty100** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:13 pm

dimmzy wrote: Still think the question should have been asked.

How people deal with disappointment tells more about them than how they deal with victory.

How many great (and could have been even greater) athletes have we seen deal with the victory of achievement by throwing their lives away on drugs and alcohol after hitting the big time? Pride and arrogance have destroyed many "achievers."

Frankly, I'm quite proud of how the gymnasts dealt with their disappointment. I'm guessing they all have much more to strive for now after this disappointment. Sure, it won't be this year, but they will all perform again.

otherindigo · #96 Post by **otherindigo** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:18 pm

dimmzy wrote:
Why does a legitimate question "hurt" anyone's feelings?

If we're so worried about feelings, then let's call these the Olympic Friendship Games and give everyone a gold medal.

Like they do in American schools. Where everyone is above average (apologies to Garrison Keillor).

Are we talking about the Olympics or American schools? I'm kind of confused seeing as they keep getting compared by dimmzy. If you want to talk American education/schools, please go ahead and make a new topic. I'm sure several of the American educators on this "bored" wouldn't mind discussing "American schools".

kayrharris · #97 Post by **kayrharris** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:27 pm

DevilKitty100 wrote:
dimmzy wrote:
I really would be interested in hearing what degree of public castigation would have made her happy. Shunned? Flogged? Excommunicated? Disowned by his parents? Laughed at by small children? His dog refusing to walk with him in public? Just what? And how much of it?
Here's what I wanted to hear:

NBC: Joe (to Joe Hagerty, who STEPPED OUT OF BOUNDS twice):

"Joe, you are usually a clutch perfomer and yet you made a rookie mistake. Was it nerves or a loss of concentration?"

JOE: "The team needed me and I let them down."

NBC to KEVIN: "You're the team captain and a coach yourself who everyday works with youngsters on how to deal with nerves in competition. What happened? If you had performed just an average routine, you could have kept within distance of the Japanese."

KEVIN: "I know. I tell my team every day to not let rookie mistakes keep them from performing at our best. Yet I know I probably cost our team a silver medal because if I had performed as I know I could have, the momentum probably would have helped Raj and Sasha tremendously and we were very close. I am grateful that my mistake didn't cost us the bronze and I am determined to not let stupid mistakes hurt us in the future."

That's all. He may have been thinking that, but too bad NBC didn't question him on it ...

Hey! Joe didn't answer the first question. Was it nerves or lack of concentration?

#98 Post by **littlebeast13** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:55 pm

ROTFLMAO!

I can't believe I'm even reading a thread about Olympic gymnastics....

lb13

#99 Post by **littlebeast13** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:10 pm

13 year old gymnast wrote:
dimmzy wrote:
I'll bet you were one of the kids who would tell the last batter to strike out in a lost game "Way to loose the game for us", even though that at bat was only 1 of 27 outs.
But it wasn't one of "27 outs." We were doing GREAT! If he had done an "average" routine, that would have been the 2 points that would have brought us into silver medal position. THEN, the next performer might have done a LITTLE better too (clearly he was a little unnerved). We could have won the silver.

ANYHOW, thank you for your participation.

--dimmzy, who will now join a Gymnastics message bored to rant with 12-year-olds who will probably call me a "meanie"
Meanie!

You any relation to Starving_Chinese_Child? I think Sally Struthers is looking for you...

lb13

BackInTex · #100 Post by **BackInTex** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:13 pm

TheConfessor wrote:
dimmzy wrote:
Somehow I don't think it would have been too great a leap of faith to assume those thoughts of disappointment were running through just about everyone's mind, but I still don't understand where public emphasis of the shortcomings would have benefited the individual or the team. Negative reinforcement isn't.
Still think the question should have been asked.

How people deal with disappointment tells more about them than how they deal with victory.
Maybe so. Case in point: your disappointment that the question wasn't asked and that the team felt good about its performance.

Ed! You made my stiches hurt!